He is inside for the day today, lost the scooter for a week for carrying on. He has a baseball game that he needs to go to today after that he stays in.
Parenting advice needed??? Help!
- Thread starter lukenick1
- Start date
He is inside for the day today, lost the scooter for a week for carrying on. He has a baseball game that he needs to go to today after that he stays in.
Telling him I would sell it wouldn't make him go to his room because he wouldn't believe I would do it. Sad huh???
Mkrop
I just cant go on demand
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- Feb 26, 2007
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Then you would need to sell it...this is the theme we are all talking about here, the followthrough! Dont say it if you dont mean it, but I would defintely do it if the behavior contiunes.
roseaster
DIS Veteran
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Okay, you need structure. Big time.
You need to start by letting them know expectations. The expectations are that certain household chores are to be done daily before there is any leisure activity. Rooms are to be cleaned, bathroom cleaned, things picked up. Assign them on an every other day basis to clean the bathroom.
As for the behavior, pick a punishment and stick to it so they know what to expect. "Each time you are disrespectful of others you will be grounded for one day." No electronics, toys, games, TV, friends, etc. And stick to it. Each time and every time.
With the car incident when the 10 yr continued his behavior after being told to stop you should have said immediately, "that is disrespectful, you are grounded for one day." If he argued, another day, etc. No emotion. The older one should have been told the same thing after name calling and the friend should have been taken home immediately.
With the 10 yr incident & the room, I would have done the same. When he was sassy I would have given him a day for being sassy, then another day for arguing, days for each time he came out of his room. He is testing you. You absolutely must stick to your guns. No relenting, no letting things slide. No warnings. I would tell them that you are 10 and 12, not 3. You don't need warnings. You are smart enough and mature enough to know that it is rude to continue doing something when you are asked to stop.
...and there would be no baseball game.
Put everything in writing. Make a poster and put in on the fridge.
Rule #1 You will be respectful of others at all times.
Rule #2 Before you can play the following things must be completed to my satisfaction. Rooms are clean, personal items are picked up, bathroom is cleaned. 10 will clean the bathroom on even days, 12 on odd.
Every time rule #1 is broken it will result in 1 day of grounding. No electronics, no friends, no outdoor activities.
Here are some examples of disrespectful behavior. These are just some examples everyone is smart enough to know if they are being disrespectful:
arguing
whining
name calling
disobeying
physical violence
threats
eye rolling
back talk
You need to start by letting them know expectations. The expectations are that certain household chores are to be done daily before there is any leisure activity. Rooms are to be cleaned, bathroom cleaned, things picked up. Assign them on an every other day basis to clean the bathroom.
As for the behavior, pick a punishment and stick to it so they know what to expect. "Each time you are disrespectful of others you will be grounded for one day." No electronics, toys, games, TV, friends, etc. And stick to it. Each time and every time.
With the car incident when the 10 yr continued his behavior after being told to stop you should have said immediately, "that is disrespectful, you are grounded for one day." If he argued, another day, etc. No emotion. The older one should have been told the same thing after name calling and the friend should have been taken home immediately.
With the 10 yr incident & the room, I would have done the same. When he was sassy I would have given him a day for being sassy, then another day for arguing, days for each time he came out of his room. He is testing you. You absolutely must stick to your guns. No relenting, no letting things slide. No warnings. I would tell them that you are 10 and 12, not 3. You don't need warnings. You are smart enough and mature enough to know that it is rude to continue doing something when you are asked to stop.
...and there would be no baseball game.
Put everything in writing. Make a poster and put in on the fridge.
Rule #1 You will be respectful of others at all times.
Rule #2 Before you can play the following things must be completed to my satisfaction. Rooms are clean, personal items are picked up, bathroom is cleaned. 10 will clean the bathroom on even days, 12 on odd.
Every time rule #1 is broken it will result in 1 day of grounding. No electronics, no friends, no outdoor activities.
Here are some examples of disrespectful behavior. These are just some examples everyone is smart enough to know if they are being disrespectful:
arguing
whining
name calling
disobeying
physical violence
threats
eye rolling
back talk
Lynne M
DIS Legend
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- Nov 4, 2001
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- 12,654
Oh, there's an easy fix for that. Sell it. Or donate it to the Salvation Army, Goodwill, etc. Once you've made the threat, you HAVE to follow through, or it's worse than doing nothing at all. I guarantee it will produce results. Yep, you'll lose money, but it will be oh, so worth it.
With behavior that out of control, I think I'd walk up to him, dead calm, and ask him very seriously "Why is it that you think acting like a three-year-old is going to get you your scooter back?". Good lord, no way is that appropriate behavior for a 10 year old.
luvsJack
DIS Legend
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Op you need to sit down with your husband and decide on consequences that you will follow through on, rewards you will give and how they earn them. Then sit down with your sons and spell it out to them.
If you know that you won't sell the scooter then don't tell him that just tell him you will lock it up or whatever you will do. If you know that you won't take away the baseball game don't threaten to-- that was one I wouldn't do because I felt it was disrespectful to the team and the coach. Parents have different lines they will draw on punishment. Figure put your line not that of anyone here.
It will take a little while to make them see that you are following through you don't want to make even harder by setting down consequences that you don't feel right about sticking to.
If you know that you won't sell the scooter then don't tell him that just tell him you will lock it up or whatever you will do. If you know that you won't take away the baseball game don't threaten to-- that was one I wouldn't do because I felt it was disrespectful to the team and the coach. Parents have different lines they will draw on punishment. Figure put your line not that of anyone here.
It will take a little while to make them see that you are following through you don't want to make even harder by setting down consequences that you don't feel right about sticking to.
gemini2727
DIS Veteran
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- Mar 19, 2009
- Messages
- 1,384
It's always worked for him before, no reason for him to change yet...I really agree with having a family sit-down to explain their new expectations and consequences of bad behavior. Once they've been duly warned, they can't complain about those consequences..
roseaster
DIS Veteran
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OP, your thread interests me because I was (am) your 12 year old. I was the kid who it was obvious was not favored. I was treated horribly throughout my childhood by my brother. He was (is) a master manipulator and butt kisser, so no one ever believed me. No only did no one believe me, most situations were turned around to be my fault because no one would ever believe that the golden child would do such things. It is a very painful thing as a child, and an adult, to know that you are second best.
After a while, although you still care and it still hurts, you just stop trying because you know no matter what you do that it will never be good enough, that you will never be special or loved.
You think your younger son is the one acting up to get negative attention, but it is your older one. The only time you care about him is when he is doing something to negative to his brother. He also isolates himself from the family because he doesn't feel like he is part of the family. The 10 year old will always get the lion's share of the attention and praise, so there is no point in getting involved and being the odd man out, or getting your feelings hurt by constant criticism. I spent the majority of my childhood in my room, and my adolescence out of the house with my friends. He is good at school and at friends because he is recognized for who he is there, not for being the second best son.
I know your son is at that age where he really doesn't want to hang with his parents, but you really need to try to spend some time with him alone, without the 10 year old to steal the limelight. You need to meet him on his level. Find a sitter for the 10 year old and go to your son's games without him. Get some baseball tickets, just 2, and take your son to a pro game. Take him clothes shopping for "cool" clothes, whatever is his thing. If he keeps isolating himself from the family you will have a teenager that has a life outside of your house that you will know nothing about and that is going to lead him into much, much bigger problems.
In all my life I would have given anything to have my positives pointed out instead of my negatives.
After a while, although you still care and it still hurts, you just stop trying because you know no matter what you do that it will never be good enough, that you will never be special or loved.
You think your younger son is the one acting up to get negative attention, but it is your older one. The only time you care about him is when he is doing something to negative to his brother. He also isolates himself from the family because he doesn't feel like he is part of the family. The 10 year old will always get the lion's share of the attention and praise, so there is no point in getting involved and being the odd man out, or getting your feelings hurt by constant criticism. I spent the majority of my childhood in my room, and my adolescence out of the house with my friends. He is good at school and at friends because he is recognized for who he is there, not for being the second best son.
I know your son is at that age where he really doesn't want to hang with his parents, but you really need to try to spend some time with him alone, without the 10 year old to steal the limelight. You need to meet him on his level. Find a sitter for the 10 year old and go to your son's games without him. Get some baseball tickets, just 2, and take your son to a pro game. Take him clothes shopping for "cool" clothes, whatever is his thing. If he keeps isolating himself from the family you will have a teenager that has a life outside of your house that you will know nothing about and that is going to lead him into much, much bigger problems.
In all my life I would have given anything to have my positives pointed out instead of my negatives.
Ok Peeps......
Need your help again!!! I went around and found some of the sources of my anger and outbursts. This list of things is what makes me CRAZY! Please help me come up with a solution to make the house more harmonious. Here are some of the things I observed today and most days....
Wet towels on bedroom floor
Dirty clothes on floor
toilets unflushed
pee on toilet seats
dirty dishes left all over the house
candy wrappers and trash left all over bedrooms and house
shoes, backpacks, left on floor (should be in closet)
toothpaste mess on counters and sinks
TV left on
I get on their case over and over about these things or I give up and just do it myself. I know I am not doing them any good by doing it for them. I really want them to take more responsibility for the messes they make. Can you help em come up with a solution to these problems?? it will really help me be in a better mood. I am so overwhelmed already.
Thanks again for all the excellent advice everyone!
OP, I am going to say this as gently as possible. Your home is negative. You have got to start changing your thinking to more positive things. How about a "Guys, lets go to <insert favorite arcade, theather activity>. I assure you they will be happy to go. "Ok, DS12 you get the towels off the bathroom floor, DS10 get dirty cups and put in sink, I will grab trash and tv. and we will go". You say its a great thing DS12 is hanging out with his friends. Its the lesser evil of the friends vs gaming. Its not. Your family needs one night a week where no one goes anywhere, does anything with anyone but the 4 of you. Period. I also agree with punishing the oldest for the youngest is not right and extremely unfair. Poor behavior is one thing, but how we react is totally on us. You need to lay out the rules before you go anywhere. The consequences before the car starts. And have them repeat back to you so you know what they have heard you say.
I know this is a learning process and its not going to get good next week. You have had this dynamic for the last 12 years. You need to stop making excuses for yds and start valuing your ods. Your reactions and outbursts have to be at a minimum. Stop yelling and talking. Do something. Don't say a word. Turn the car around, apologize to friend and go home. They were not buying a lifealtering/saving device at the store. It would wait.
You need positive. The towels have laid there for awhile, the dishes and the trash will be there. You can't let them be the thing that causes your reaction. If your yds is ODD, you are giving him all the tools he needs. ODD is often seen with kids who do not value authority (hate rules), manipulation (selfish) and strong willed (getting their way no matter what the authority figure is). You have got to get control of that situation right away. These kids suffer from poor self esteem, poor impulse control. I don't want to scare you but allowing this behavior with no control is not going to end well.
I hope you keep trying. You and your dh have to get on the same page.
K
yes, make sure you don't just focus on being a hammer that comes down on the kids, find ways for positive reinforcement and building them up as well. I also agree about family time, and one on one time. they may roll their eyes, but there is value in it and in the end will bring you closer.
I agree with all the others who are saying make sure you and dh are on the same page, and have that family meeting about expectations. but also notice the good they do, look for it if you have to at first even if its very small things, and point it out, reward them even if its small things (go to a movie, to a ball game, for a hike, to a science museum, bowling, out for ice cream, whatever your family is into).
I agree with all the others who are saying make sure you and dh are on the same page, and have that family meeting about expectations. but also notice the good they do, look for it if you have to at first even if its very small things, and point it out, reward them even if its small things (go to a movie, to a ball game, for a hike, to a science museum, bowling, out for ice cream, whatever your family is into).
Nancyg56
DIS Legend
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- Messages
- 29,489
He would figure it out right quick when it was gone. He is not going to believe you will change in a day, he needs an example.
Ok Peeps......
Need your help again!!! I went around and found some of the sources of my anger and outbursts. This list of things is what makes me CRAZY! Please help me come up with a solution to make the house more harmonious. Here are some of the things I observed today and most days....
Wet towels on bedroom floor
Dirty clothes on floor
toilets unflushed
pee on toilet seats
dirty dishes left all over the house
candy wrappers and trash left all over bedrooms and house
shoes, backpacks, left on floor (should be in closet)
toothpaste mess on counters and sinks
TV left on
I get on their case over and over about these things or I give up and just do it myself. I know I am not doing them any good by doing it for them. I really want them to take more responsibility for the messes they make. Can you help em come up with a solution to these problems?? it will really help me be in a better mood. I am so overwhelmed already.
Thanks again for all the excellent advice everyone!
Okay. Slow down and think. Years ago i took my son for therapy and found out that I was 1/2 the problem. I would tell him to do chores, but I was not specific.
Make a list of things that need to be done, and be very specific. Clean the bathroom means what? Well...
1. sinks and toilets need to be wiped down. Have wipes available.Toilets flushed.
3. Nothing left on the counter. Have a place for their toothbrushes, etc.
4. Everything needs to be in the closet, and make sure there are pegs to hang the backpacks.
Rooms:
1. Make the beds
2. pick up clothes..again in the basket
3 no candy papers, etc. Tell them that if there are papers left lying around, you will remove the candy.
Dirty dishes? No. Tell them that they need to be responsible for washing their dishes. Not up for negotiation.
Make a chart so that they know what is expected. Also, the consequences of not doing each chore and there should be a consequence.
There should be something of a reward system for chores completed as well.
Sit down and discuss the "new rules" Make sure each boy knows that you can and you will make sure that all things are done. Make sure that the consequences bot positive and negative are spelled out so that they know upfront what to expect.
FOr instance, if you ask to have the table set and it is not done, you will lose A.
If they sass you, they will lose their phone for one week.
Scooter in the house? Scooter is gone for a week. If there is a tantrum, scooter is donated.
This will not change overnight, and it won't change at all if the boys do not know what to expect.
MsLeFever
WPASADI II Co-Winner
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- Oct 30, 2003
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- 4,133
First of all......
I would NEVER threaten to sell or donate the scooter because I wouldn't want to do that. I'd rather take it away indefinitely then to just get rid of it. A scooter is a form of exercise so I really want to encourage that. I would really love to threaten the xbox to get sold. I would have NO PROBLEM selling that darn thing!!!!
Appreciate the comments, please keep them coming.
I would NEVER threaten to sell or donate the scooter because I wouldn't want to do that. I'd rather take it away indefinitely then to just get rid of it. A scooter is a form of exercise so I really want to encourage that. I would really love to threaten the xbox to get sold. I would have NO PROBLEM selling that darn thing!!!!
Appreciate the comments, please keep them coming.
luvsJack
DIS Legend
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- Apr 3, 2007
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- 20,355
lukenick1 said:First of all......
I would NEVER threaten to sell or donate the scooter because I wouldn't want to do that. I'd rather take it away indefinitely then to just get rid of it. A scooter is a form of exercise so I really want to encourage that. I would really love to threaten the xbox to get sold. I would have NO PROBLEM selling that darn thing!!!!
Sounds like the xbox is a big problem. I feel for you. I have definitely been there, some that.
I would definitely set some strict ground rules for it. And if the problems continue take it away until he can control his actions. Ds eventually realized for himself what a difference playing non stop could make in his behavior. He liked not constantly being in trouble and started to limit himself.
Southernmiss
I am hazed everyday
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Op is the Xbox in his room or a public place? When our kids were younger, video games were on the family tv. They earned "tv tickets" for thirty minutes if tv/video game time that could be taken away for bad behavior. It limited their screen time and made them work for them.
Xbox is in the family living room. They actually haven't played it as much. They have been outside more thankfully. However, if they don't have a friend to hang out with they will spend time on minecraft once their computer use is restored. I will definitely be putting a limit on that! The rule for summer is, no electronics until dark or if its raining.
Wishing on a star
DIS Legend
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Okay, I am back on here again...
LukeNick, after reading your more recent post, I am going to just outright advise, once again, that you (and the family) really invest in some good counseling and guidance.
What the heck was that scooter even doing in the house???
The 10 year old 'good kid with a heart of gold'... The 'favored son', is acting this way???
Many here have tried to be helpful and offer some direct advice.
But, IMHO, it seems obvious that there are some deeper issues here. And, a chat-board is not going to be the real answer.
LukeNick, after reading your more recent post, I am going to just outright advise, once again, that you (and the family) really invest in some good counseling and guidance.
What the heck was that scooter even doing in the house???
The 10 year old 'good kid with a heart of gold'... The 'favored son', is acting this way???
Many here have tried to be helpful and offer some direct advice.
But, IMHO, it seems obvious that there are some deeper issues here. And, a chat-board is not going to be the real answer.
Wishing on a star
DIS Legend
- Joined
- Aug 7, 2002
- Messages
- 19,063
lukenick1;48504165 DS10 is humming an annoying tune in the car just to aggravate. DS12 asks him to stop. DS10 keeps doing it. I ask him to stop. He does it again. DS12 screams "cut it out you little idiot". I get mad at DS12 for not letting me handle it and being nasty to DS10.[/QUOTE said:
GigglyFigment
Mouseketeer
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- May 26, 2013
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- 121
OP, you could be my voice teacher.
I USED to take lessons from a lady who taught out of her home. She had two boys. Her oldest had health issues - all chronic but not life-threatening and did not impact his life. Her youngest was born healthy.
The oldest, we'll call him Tommy, got anything he wanted. He punched his brother when Evan was 2 years old in the groin repeatedly and thought it was funny - he was told "Tommy, don't do that it's not nice" and that was the extent of his punishment - he'd often continue the behavior a few minutes later. As the they grew older, it was more sneaky manipulation - he'd ask for things knowing his brother wanted them and would be told yes. Last cookie in the package was ALWAYS his - there was no concept of "share it with your brother". It wouldn't matter if something had been promised to Evan, if Tommy wanted it than it was his. "I'll get you another one, Evan," she'd say. Money was tight so Evan's special treats frequently went to his brother while Evan "enjoyed" his brother's hand me downs. Evan would naturally get upset - what four year old is completely in control of his emotions?? - and fuss and cry and have a fit. He'd spend hours in time out. She'd constantly complain about the youngest and viewed her oldest as such a sweetheart. Any outsider viewer would clearly see the opposite was the case.
Being in the house was one of the the most uncomfortable experiences in my life. There was an age gap of over 6 years between the two children, but she had extremely high expectations for the healthy child but next to none for the one that had been ill as a child. I quit taking lessons because it was just awful to be there and not be able to intervene on the child's behalf. She'd say that she couldn't understand why his teachers loved Evan because he was so horrible at home. It just broke my heart.
OP, your children are only 2 years apart. The reason why you haven't "bonded" as much with your 12 year old is because two years after he was born you were consumed with paying attention to his brother. He's had competition since he was TWO!! YOU are the parent. You simply cannot put it on him for your lack of a relationship. He is a child. He does not and did not have the emotional maturity nor the tools to understand what you wanted out of the relationship.
Your 10 year old has absolutely no respect for you yet he is the so sweet and caring? Really? As far as I can tell, when your 12 year old called him "a little idiot", imho, he was only stating the truth. Him getting in trouble brought me back to my childhood when I'd get grounded for a week for saying my abusive father was a jerk. So not only was HE being annoyed HE gets in trouble for a situation that shouldn't have been allowed to continue in the first place.
I can also clear up a mystery for you as to why DS10 isn't invited to parties much - NOBODY LIKES HIM. He was taught how to interact at home to get his way and I will bet you a trip to WDW that he acts that way at school. It's the sneaky sort of behavior that a teacher might not pick up on but kids are sick and tired of and don't want to be around. I worked in the school system for ages and I can tell you that the kids who get their way at home try the same mess with their peers and it doesn't end well. The kid doesn't understand why it isn't working and rejection just makes them try harder.
Not one thing that you have said about his words or actions demonstrates this. If anything, the 12 year old did exactly what you said...but he's the problem? Is your first reaction to that question is to defend the 10 year old some more you need to really think about that long and hard.
Everyone has said family counseling and parenting classes - I agree. However, I think your 10 year old needs some serious therapy as well. A lot of damage has been done and your 12 year old is smart enough to know that what goes on at home isn't right. Your 10 year old has no reason to wise up - he lives like a king comparatively! The 10 year old is going to need a lot of therapy and activities/classes to reeducate him in how to interact with people. Giving him more chances to practice proper interaction - not the manipulative dramatic methods he uses now - will help him just as much as changing what you do at home and therapy and parenting classes.
I USED to take lessons from a lady who taught out of her home. She had two boys. Her oldest had health issues - all chronic but not life-threatening and did not impact his life. Her youngest was born healthy.
The oldest, we'll call him Tommy, got anything he wanted. He punched his brother when Evan was 2 years old in the groin repeatedly and thought it was funny - he was told "Tommy, don't do that it's not nice" and that was the extent of his punishment - he'd often continue the behavior a few minutes later. As the they grew older, it was more sneaky manipulation - he'd ask for things knowing his brother wanted them and would be told yes. Last cookie in the package was ALWAYS his - there was no concept of "share it with your brother". It wouldn't matter if something had been promised to Evan, if Tommy wanted it than it was his. "I'll get you another one, Evan," she'd say. Money was tight so Evan's special treats frequently went to his brother while Evan "enjoyed" his brother's hand me downs. Evan would naturally get upset - what four year old is completely in control of his emotions?? - and fuss and cry and have a fit. He'd spend hours in time out. She'd constantly complain about the youngest and viewed her oldest as such a sweetheart. Any outsider viewer would clearly see the opposite was the case.
Being in the house was one of the the most uncomfortable experiences in my life. There was an age gap of over 6 years between the two children, but she had extremely high expectations for the healthy child but next to none for the one that had been ill as a child. I quit taking lessons because it was just awful to be there and not be able to intervene on the child's behalf. She'd say that she couldn't understand why his teachers loved Evan because he was so horrible at home. It just broke my heart.
OP, your children are only 2 years apart. The reason why you haven't "bonded" as much with your 12 year old is because two years after he was born you were consumed with paying attention to his brother. He's had competition since he was TWO!! YOU are the parent. You simply cannot put it on him for your lack of a relationship. He is a child. He does not and did not have the emotional maturity nor the tools to understand what you wanted out of the relationship.
Your 10 year old has absolutely no respect for you yet he is the so sweet and caring? Really? As far as I can tell, when your 12 year old called him "a little idiot", imho, he was only stating the truth. Him getting in trouble brought me back to my childhood when I'd get grounded for a week for saying my abusive father was a jerk. So not only was HE being annoyed HE gets in trouble for a situation that shouldn't have been allowed to continue in the first place.
I can also clear up a mystery for you as to why DS10 isn't invited to parties much - NOBODY LIKES HIM. He was taught how to interact at home to get his way and I will bet you a trip to WDW that he acts that way at school. It's the sneaky sort of behavior that a teacher might not pick up on but kids are sick and tired of and don't want to be around. I worked in the school system for ages and I can tell you that the kids who get their way at home try the same mess with their peers and it doesn't end well. The kid doesn't understand why it isn't working and rejection just makes them try harder.
Not one thing that you have said about his words or actions demonstrates this. If anything, the 12 year old did exactly what you said...but he's the problem? Is your first reaction to that question is to defend the 10 year old some more you need to really think about that long and hard.
Everyone has said family counseling and parenting classes - I agree. However, I think your 10 year old needs some serious therapy as well. A lot of damage has been done and your 12 year old is smart enough to know that what goes on at home isn't right. Your 10 year old has no reason to wise up - he lives like a king comparatively! The 10 year old is going to need a lot of therapy and activities/classes to reeducate him in how to interact with people. Giving him more chances to practice proper interaction - not the manipulative dramatic methods he uses now - will help him just as much as changing what you do at home and therapy and parenting classes.
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