Parenting advice needed??? Help!

[thedonduck]

But to DS12, DS10 is NONE of these things. He's whiney, annoying, taunting, AND the favorite child. DS12 knows you prefer his little brother. Look at the adjectives you use for DS12... "stubborn, tempered, don't like his personality at home." You describe DS10 as "thoughtful, caring, generous, heart of gold." Maybe DS12 is cold when you hug him because, from his perspective, you don't mean it, you are just going through the motions, because to him, you clearly prefer his brother. Between DS10's behavior towards DS12, as well as thinking that DS10 has all your love, it's no wonder that he treats you all like crap.

I don't think DS12 changing his attitude towards his brother would work out anything. That's like me saying that if I lost 50 pounds, my life would be perfect. It won't change a THING. DS10 might have physical health issues, but DS12 is developing emotional health issues towards his brother. I know you are only one person, and there are only so many hours in a day, and you are balancing DS10's health issues, but you have to accept that DS12 has just as much need for your time, attention, consideration, and compassion, and find that for him, show that to him. I agree, it's hard when he is so nasty to everyone, but to him, I bet there are HUGE reasons for responding the way he does.

I just want to add this, because with online, written words, you cannot determine tone or intent... I am not saying these things to be mean to you. It honestly breaks my heart that your family has gotten to this point, and I hope you can reshape your family life so everyone is happy.

This is exactly what I was trying to say, but lee bee said it so much better. There is a, what reads to be, a very apparent favorite. Like I said, take a step back and really reflect about the way you treat your kids.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

Ok experts......help me with this one!!

DS10 is humming an annoying tune in the car just to aggravate. DS12 asks him to stop. DS10 keeps doing it. I ask him to stop. He does it again. DS12 screams "cut it out you little idiot". I get mad at DS12 for not letting me handle it and being nasty to DS10. I finally make a threat to DS10 to stop. He finally stops (for once). This is a pattern in the car. DS10 does something, DS12 reacts immediately, instead of ignoring him. I have started asking DS12 to sit in the front seat because the two of them constantly start in the car. Do you know how many times I have turned my radio up blasting our ears just to get them to stop yelling at each other?? I cannot take them anywhere together in public. Seriously, one will aggravate the other and then they are both yelling back and forth making a scene. It is so embarrassing. Thank God DS12 is old enough to stay home alone now. What do I do??? DS10 can't do anything good in DS12's eyes, he despises him. Makes me sad.

l have been following this thread from the beginning. Parenting really is so hard. Here is my .02, since you asked for opinions.

My sense is that you're often at your wit's end. You mentioned your husband isn't home a lot. When he is home, in order to get "quick results" (as many men do, IMO), he "reacts", often physically. (And you do, too - ear twist, hair pull, etc. And not judging, just analyzing.)

Good or bad, children learn from us. They take on what we model for them.

The bolded above is a 12 year old's version of a quick reaction (and somewhat mild, thankfully, as it's not physical at this point; although there is a bit of a verbal sting there). He has learned this.

I know this will get a few but in situations like this, Dr. Phil will often say that the dad needs to be "plugged in" more. I'll leave it at that, as I don't know what your situation is, but just as a thought.

As for your sons, my gut sense is that you need to find a way to hit the "restart" button for them in order to help them have a better sibling relationship going forward. Counseling could help here. But I might also want to see them do some things together that help them value their relationship to eachother. I don't know what, exactly, but I'm thinking some sort of survival thing where they have to depend on eachother, or something like that. Or maybe even volunteering together somewhere. Help them learn to appreciate what they have together more.

 

[Lynne M]

Oh, my goodness, I don't even have kids, and I can clearly see what was going on in that car. Your 10-year-old did a masterful job of that childhood classic, "getting my brother/sister in trouble.". He played his brother, and he played you. He knew very well that repeating stuff would goad his brother into an outburst, and he'd get yelled at for it. He won.

Look, you've been getting a lot of good advice here, but a bunch of random suggestions on a message board isn't going to fix this problem. You need a structured plan to fix this, and you need professional help. You need family counseling, and you and your husband need parenting classes.

It's nothing to be ashamed of. Even hall-of-fame baseball players need to work with a hitting coach sometimes, and hitting a baseball isn't anywhere near as hard as raising kids.

I highly doubt that anyone's going to call CPS on you because you pull your kids' hair or ears once in awhile - but that needs to stop. Today. Every time you do that, it means you lost. Lost control of the situation, and lost control of yourself. And every time you or your husband resort to that, it makes things worse. You're resorting to hurting them because you don't know how to discipline effectively, and you need to learn how to do that. From a professional.

Call your family doctor's office as soon as they open on Tuesday morning and ask for a referral to a family counselor, and ask the counselor to recommend a good parenting class in your area during your first appointment with them.

 

[LisaR]

But how can YOU change the way YOU treat him (the older one)?? I'm just reading here, have no obvious knowledge of your family, but here is my take.
You seem to "excuse" the behavior of the younger child because he is the baby, he has health issues, he is the caring, etc, etc. one. The older one you immediately jump on and don't seem to address the issues.

All kids need consequences. Appropriate ones at that. But you need to address them fairly. In your last situation, you punished the older one when the younger one was the root of the problem. As a teacher (ms/hs) you need to address expectations of behaviors, etc. from the get go and also consequences that will happen if they don't follow the expectations. "We are going to the store. You need to act like gentlemen in the car and as well as in the store. There is no rough housing or yelling in anywhere. If I have to ask you more than once to stop, when we get home you will lose X, Y, or Z for TIME amount". I did this with all of my students (as well as my own children now) all the way up the seniors. That way there is no need for warnings, yelling, etc.

You can't fix his behavior if you don't acknowledge your own issues. Your son seems to have issues with YOU, not with his brother. You say he is cold to you, honestly the way this all reads, YOU are also very cold to him. He is going through a lot of pre-teen hormonal stuff, on top of that it seems like the home dynamic is cold. I wouldn't want to get a hug from someone who pulls my hair or twist my ears.

Look back at what you have written. Sometimes you need to have an outsiders approach. Raising kids is difficult. No one has all the answers, but sometimes you just need to take a step back and really reflect on what YOU can change. Good luck

But to DS12, DS10 is NONE of these things. He's whiney, annoying, taunting, AND the favorite child. DS12 knows you prefer his little brother. Look at the adjectives you use for DS12... "stubborn, tempered, don't like his personality at home." You describe DS10 as "thoughtful, caring, generous, heart of gold." Maybe DS12 is cold when you hug him because, from his perspective, you don't mean it, you are just going through the motions, because to him, you clearly prefer his brother. Between DS10's behavior towards DS12, as well as thinking that DS10 has all your love, it's no wonder that he treats you all like crap.

I don't think DS12 changing his attitude towards his brother would work out anything. That's like me saying that if I lost 50 pounds, my life would be perfect. It won't change a THING. DS10 might have physical health issues, but DS12 is developing emotional health issues towards his brother. I know you are only one person, and there are only so many hours in a day, and you are balancing DS10's health issues, but you have to accept that DS12 has just as much need for your time, attention, consideration, and compassion, and find that for him, show that to him. I agree, it's hard when he is so nasty to everyone, but to him, I bet there are HUGE reasons for responding the way he does.

I just want to add this, because with online, written words, you cannot determine tone or intent... I am not saying these things to be mean to you. It honestly breaks my heart that your family has gotten to this point, and I hope you can reshape your family life so everyone is happy.

OP'er, Reread these two posts and take them to heart. You have some serious issues going on and I don't think you are seeing them at this point.

 

[lukenick1]

Reread these two posts and take them to heart. You have some serious issues going on and I don't think you are seeing them at this point.

Believe me I see them!!!!! I agree wholeheartedly. I am not a model parent, I need some help on how to handle the issues at hand and discipline. I do favor the younger one over the older one. I will say that my first born son and I never really had a close bond from birth. I do want help for this, I have left a few messages with counselors who accept our insurance and will wait to hear back from them. I know this is not an excuse but neither DH or I came from model homes, although they were not physically abusive thankfully. I am taking everything to heart and want to change.

 

[leebee]

Believe me I see them!!!!! I agree wholeheartedly. I am not a model parent, I need some help on how to handle the issues at hand and discipline. I do favor the younger one over the older one. I will say that my first born son and I never really had a close bond from birth. I do want help for this, I have left a few messages with counselors who accept our insurance and will wait to hear back from them. I know this is not an excuse but neither DH or I came from model homes, although they were not physically abusive thankfully. I am taking everything to heart and want to change.

Fortunately, you don't need to come from a model home to learn how to be a good parent. It's wonderful that you are open to advice, as I am sure not all of what was posted has been easy to read, and it's even better that you are taking the necessary steps to move forward . and for everyone... you can do this!

 

[lukenick1]

Ok Peeps......

Need your help again!!! I went around and found some of the sources of my anger and outbursts. This list of things is what makes me CRAZY! Please help me come up with a solution to make the house more harmonious. Here are some of the things I observed today and most days....

Wet towels on bedroom floor
Dirty clothes on floor
toilets unflushed
pee on toilet seats
dirty dishes left all over the house
candy wrappers and trash left all over bedrooms and house
shoes, backpacks, left on floor (should be in closet)
toothpaste mess on counters and sinks
TV left on

I get on their case over and over about these things or I give up and just do it myself. I know I am not doing them any good by doing it for them. I really want them to take more responsibility for the messes they make. Can you help em come up with a solution to these problems?? it will really help me be in a better mood. I am so overwhelmed already.
Thanks again for all the excellent advice everyone!

 

[abdmom]

Ok Peeps......

Need your help again!!! I went around and found some of the sources of my anger and outbursts. This list of things is what makes me CRAZY! Please help me come up with a solution to make the house more harmonious. Here are some of the things I observed today and most days....

Wet towels on bedroom floor
Dirty clothes on floor
toilets unflushed
pee on toilet seats
dirty dishes left all over the house
candy wrappers and trash left all over bedrooms and house
shoes, backpacks, left on floor (should be in closet)
toothpaste mess on counters and sinks
TV left on

I get on their case over and over about these things or I give up and just do it myself. I know I am not doing them any good by doing it for them. I really want them to take more responsibility for the messes they make. Can you help em come up with a solution to these problems?? it will really help me be in a better mood. I am so overwhelmed already.
Thanks again for all the excellent advice everyone!

Don't let it get to you. Take a deep breath and keep calm. They're still kids. They need reminders for this type of thing. I have 3 kids. The oldest is 17. He didn't start cleaning up his messes without reminders from me until the past year. The younger 2 don't.

 

[Planogirl]

Ok Peeps......

Need your help again!!! I went around and found some of the sources of my anger and outbursts. This list of things is what makes me CRAZY! Please help me come up with a solution to make the house more harmonious. Here are some of the things I observed today and most days....

Wet towels on bedroom floor
Dirty clothes on floor
toilets unflushed
pee on toilet seats
dirty dishes left all over the house
candy wrappers and trash left all over bedrooms and house
shoes, backpacks, left on floor (should be in closet)
toothpaste mess on counters and sinks
TV left on

I get on their case over and over about these things or I give up and just do it myself. I know I am not doing them any good by doing it for them. I really want them to take more responsibility for the messes they make. Can you help em come up with a solution to these problems?? it will really help me be in a better mood. I am so overwhelmed already.
Thanks again for all the excellent advice everyone!

Make a list of things that they are responsible for and ask them to check it off in some way. Praise them when they do these things and just remind them (firmly) when they don't. If they persist in not doing these things, take something away and be firm about the period of loss. Meanwhile, continue to hug them (whether they like it or not) and think of fun things to do with them individually.

Good luck, it's hard.

 

[abdmom]

Don't let it get to you. Take a deep breath and keep calm. They're still kids. They need reminders for this type of thing. I have 3 kids. The oldest is 17. He didn't start cleaning up his messes without reminders from me until the past year. The younger 2 don't.

Just to expand on this. The way I think of it is this: Kids are not born as civilized beings. It's our job as parents to civilize them. That means teaching them what their responsibilities are, how to interact with each other, look both ways before crossing the street etc etc.

Even though a 12 year old boy may be taller than you, he's still a little kid. Boys at this age are less mature than girls. My oldest is a boy and his next sibling is a girl who is 3 years younger. For many years, they were at similar maturity levels. I've taught middle school and high school. It's my opinion, kind of tongue in cheek, that boys are little kids until they're about 15. They're big kids until, well, I haven't really found a maximum age for that.

Think of it this way - you wouldn't get mad at a baby for having a dirty diaper, right? Because they don't know how to use a toilet yet. Kids don't have a sense of keeping living areas neat either.

This brings me to another point. Their rooms should be their kingdoms. Don't expect them to keep their rooms the way you want them. Having them clean up once in a while is fine. But let them keep their rooms the way they want them. Close their bedroom doors so you don't have to see their messes.

 

[lukenick1]

Ok scenario that just happened right now.....

DS10 said he was going outside. I said ok but pick up your room first then go outside. He looks at me with no expression and says "you disgust me". I say well that was disrespectful so now you are not going outside at all. He quickly jumps in with but Mom I was just joking. So I tell him to go up and clean his room and then he needs to stay in for disrespecting me. He argues, cleans his room up comes downstairs and heads for the door. I calmly walk over to him gently pull him away from the door and tell him no going outside because of disrespect. He is now riding his scooter in my house. I tell him he needs to stop.. He rides the scooter to the front door trying to go out so I calmly go over to him, take the scooter away and tell my husband to put it in his trunk because now he lost the scooter for trying to go outside when I told him no. He is still saying....I didn't do anything you can't keep me from going outside and continues to go to the door to test me. I calmly go to the door gently guide him away from the door and repeat you lost going outside for disrespect. I am trying so hard to remain unemotional. Am I doing this right???

 

[abdmom]

Ok scenario that just happened right now.....

DS10 said he was going outside. I said ok but pick up your room first then go outside. He looks at me with no expression and says "you disgust me". I say well that was disrespectful so now you are not going outside at all. He quickly jumps in with but Mom I was just joking. So I tell him to go up and clean his room and then he needs to stay in for disrespecting me. He argues, cleans his room up comes downstairs and heads for the door. I calmly walk over to him gently pull him away from the door and tell him no going outside because of disrespect. He is now riding his scooter in my house. I tell him he needs to stop.. He rides the scooter to the front door trying to go out so I calmly go over to him, take the scooter away and tell my husband to put it in his trunk because now he lost the scooter for trying to go outside when I told him no. He is still saying....I didn't do anything you can't keep me from going outside and continues to go to the door to test me. I calmly go to the door gently guide him away from the door and repeat you lost going outside for disrespect. I am trying so hard to remain unemotional. Am I doing this right???

You're doing pretty good. By "guiding" and "pulling", you should not be using physical force. I would also not be guarding the door. You have been clear to him that he is not allowed to go outside. (I would have sent him to his room, at a minimum, btw) Let him know what the consequences would be if he decides to ignore that directive. Then go about your business. If he goes against the directive, come down hard, but not physical. If he does obey, talk to him about being respectful. However, given your family's history, everyone treating each other with respect will take a while.

 

[mickeyplanner08]

Ok scenario that just happened right now.....

DS10 said he was going outside. I said ok but pick up your room first then go outside. He looks at me with no expression and says "you disgust me". I say well that was disrespectful so now you are not going outside at all. He quickly jumps in with but Mom I was just joking. So I tell him to go up and clean his room and then he needs to stay in for disrespecting me. He argues, cleans his room up comes downstairs and heads for the door. I calmly walk over to him gently pull him away from the door and tell him no going outside because of disrespect. He is now riding his scooter in my house. I tell him he needs to stop.. He rides the scooter to the front door trying to go out so I calmly go over to him, take the scooter away and tell my husband to put it in his trunk because now he lost the scooter for trying to go outside when I told him no. He is still saying....I didn't do anything you can't keep me from going outside and continues to go to the door to test me. I calmly go to the door gently guide him away from the door and repeat you lost going outside for disrespect. I am trying so hard to remain unemotional. Am I doing this right???

Keep it up! He is going to test your every last nerve to see if you will actually stick to your guns. He's always managed to get you to cave before-he's going to try to see just how long you can hold it together before you blow up. Don't give him the satisfaction. YOU are in charge. You and your husband need to work together. He needs to back you up. My kid would NEVER dare to say "You disgust me." You will get there, too!

 

[lukenick1]

he is continuing to have an outburst about losing the scooter.....screaming and carrying on going out to the garage and trying to get it back. I told him now he loses it tomorrow for carrying on. Telling me i am the worst mom ever, meaner than his music teacher, hates me, etc. Scremaing hitting the walls saying you hate me, I refuse to listen to you.....etc etc...full out tantrum

 

[lukenick1]

LOLOLOL.....I just took it away for a week because he was climbing on top of DH's car not letting him leave with the scooter. Now he is in the house carrying on in a full blown tantrum and yells out "I am going to die of heart disease from sitting in the house not scootering all week, it is unnatural to be inactive for a kid." Now I sent him to his room to calm down. Ugh this is a production!!!!!

 

[Mkrop]

he is continuing to have an outburst about losing the scooter.....screaming and carrying on going out to the garage and trying to get it back. I told him now he loses it tomorrow for carrying on. Telling me i am the worst mom ever, meaner than his music teacher, hates me, etc. Scremaing hitting the walls saying you hate me, I refuse to listen to you.....etc etc...full out tantrum

I would be telling him the next step if he doesnt knock it off is to donate the scooter or sell it on Ebay. And he would be in his room by now.

And in regards to the car incident, your DS12 should not have gotten in trouble when DS10 did not listen to you, that is not fair.


You need to stay strong and keep this up, it is not fun, it is not a quick fix. It took years for this behavior to be learned, it is not going to change overnight.

 

[abdmom]

Tell him to go to his room if he can't control himself. Don't engage. Remain calm.

 

[LisaR]

he is continuing to have an outburst about losing the scooter.....screaming and carrying on going out to the garage and trying to get it back. I told him now he loses it tomorrow for carrying on. Telling me i am the worst mom ever, meaner than his music teacher, hates me, etc. Scremaing hitting the walls saying you hate me, I refuse to listen to you.....etc etc...full out tantrum

Sorry you are going through this but you are going to have to stick with it. Your kids aren't used to being told what to do and having it stick. He is testing you. He will continue to test you until he sees that you won't give in. Please don't! I know this is hard right now and it will take time, but giving in isn't the answer. I do hope you are able to find a good family counselor.

 

[abdmom]

LOLOLOL.....I just took it away for a week because he was climbing on top of DH's car not letting him leave with the scooter. Now he is in the house carrying on in a full blown tantrum and yells out "I am going to die of heart disease from sitting in the house not scootering all week, it is unnatural to be inactive for a kid." Now I sent him to his room to calm down. Ugh this is a production!!!!!

Good job.

 

[mtemm]

Parenting is hard.

Have you said how long he is inside for? does he have an "out?" He has lost the scooter for a week, but for how long is he meant to stay inside for being disrespectful?