Paid Time Off

[bcla]

No. Well, ‘on paper’ I suppose you could say as it’s tracked in the payroll system. But it’s not something I’d get paid out for, it’s not that kind of arrangement.

It’s tricky in California, as at least one court ruled that an unofficial “unlimited” system might still come with an obligation to pay out PTO at the end of an exempt employee's employment. The general idea was that it wasn’t really unlimited in practice due to managers’ requests, but could also be used in order to get around accrued PTO as a financial liability in opposition to state employment law.

https://scholar.google.com/scholar_...EF+Intercultural+Foundation&hl=en&as_sdt=2006​

The record thus supports a finding that EF's paid time off policy had an implied "cap" and was by no means "unlimited." As the trial court said, an employer cannot avoid section 227.3 by leaving the amount of vacation time undefined in its policy while impliedly limiting the time actually available for approval.​

The reference is the the California Labor Code section that says accrued vacation time must be paid out upon termination of employment,

https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?sectionNum=227.3.&lawCode=LAB

 

[bcla]

My current employer basically tells employees who come in visible sick that they are given sick days to use them when they are sick and to go home. Of course there is always going to be a someone who will call out when they aren't sick. It is hard to completely stop that.

I remember when I had my first full time job, my dad gave me a bit of advice. It was to show up for work when sick, just to show my employer how dedicated I was to the job. But in practice they always told me to leave if I might be infectious. But my dad said to ignore it. I stayed at home and it frankly was never an issue.

 

[easyas123]

It’s tricky in California,

Luckily we aren’t in CA, but I’m familiar with/ some of the more stringent regulations as a few of the Companies in our Captive are from there. Speaking with them at our mtgs is eye opening at times.
I don’t have concerns over payout for PTO, limited or unlimited or rolled over as it applies to me. But I recognize that most do and it’s an important benefit. We don’t allow for more than 7 days to rollover, but will payout anything beyond that on the last pay period of the year.

 

[mylilnikita]

Our PTO has just changed. Before from day 1 our sick and PTO was available from day 1 no roll over.

New employees now accrue OTO each paycheck but Cabot use it until after 90 day mark.
For us that have been there we can roll over what PTO we have left but we cannot start accruing for this year until our anniversary date. We still get 5 days of sick first of year that can’t be rolled over. And a joke of perfect attendance that does t pertain to a lot of our positions, sorry but I want my week of sick.

A lot of changes also going on so interesting to see how it goes. We now have a new “live” attendance tracker lol.

 

[sam_gordon]

we cannot start accruing for this year until our anniversary date.

This doesn't make sense. So if you started in October (for example), you don't start accruing more PTO until then? If you don't have any rollover PTO, you can't take vacation until October?

 

[5kidsmommy]

These are interesting stories to read. My mom owned her own business while I was growing up and my husband also works for himself so my personal experience with paid time off is zero.

My three kids who are gainfully employed (one went the self employed route) all save their PTO for trips. My younger daughter rarely takes hers. She really needs to get away more.

 

[lovesmurfs]

I've been with my current employer for over 10 years. We have PTO banks -- we can carry over 12 PTO days into the new year. I earn 29 PTO days during the year (just over 18 hours a month). We also have two "personal days" that don't carry over (I use those first).

I try a combination of using it as I can and saving up some. Example: I'm taking 5 days off in January (PhD comprehensive exam), 5 days off in March (my brother and his family are coming to visit), and 12 days off (possibly more) in July for a family vacation in the UP.

But even at the end of July, I'll still have 7 days banked (and earn just under 2.5 days each month). The bugger is that I earn 18 hours in December that, if I don't use it and I already have the 12 days banked, I'd lose it. So I have to plan to only have 9.5 days in the bank in December if I don't take any other days off. It's a balancing

 

[tvguy]

Luckily we aren’t in CA, but I’m familiar with/ some of the more stringent regulations as a few of the Companies in our Captive are from there. Speaking with them at our mtgs is eye opening at times.
I don’t have concerns over payout for PTO, limited or unlimited or rolled over as it applies to me. But I recognize that most do and it’s an important benefit. We don’t allow for more than 7 days to rollover, but will payout anything beyond that on the last pay period of the year.

How do employers justify no vacation carry over, IF the employee has made reasonable attempts to use the time, but the employer denied the vacation requests? I was caught in that before the California law requiring vacation carry over. I had one week I was going to lose, and I started putting in vacation requests in June, 6 months before I had to use it that were declined. I finally put in a request "any week, you pick, I do not want to lose this vacation time". I knew what the issue was, he had NOBODY to cover for me. I worked by myself, graveyard shift. It finally got kicked up to HR, the General Manager, Corporate HR, trying to get permission to pay me for the week. In the end corporate said they HAD to give me the time off. The solution was the number two person in my department had to cover for me. Because my job was a job she hadn't done in 10 years, she had to spend a week with me training, and then the following week for my vacation. She was not happy, of course, with the work hours, and with the work load. She told me I was crazy for putting up with both of those.
As for sick time, well, because of my work hours, if I called in sick it usually meant somebody had to work a double shift to cover. It was understood that they were prefer I come to work sick. "THEY" being management AND my co-workers because it was easier to stay away from me if I was sick than replace me. I have to admit that never really was much of an issue as I tended to get sick towards the end of my Friday shift, spend my weekend sick, and be recovered by Monday.

 

[easyas123]

How do employers justify no vacation carry over, IF the employee has made reasonable attempts to use the time, but the employer denied the vacation requests? I

I have no idea how they justify it.

 

[Snowysmom]

I accrue 4 weeks vacation every year and can carry over up to the 4 weeks. Also, when our accrual has reached our maximum amount including the carry over, we stop accruing vacation time until we take off some time and get it back under our accrual limit. I always keep track and take time off if I am getting close to my 4 weeks accrual. We get 5 sick days a year that we cannot carry over. We can put 80 hours into a sick bank to use up some of the leftover days but once that is done, we lose any sick days we don't use in a year. I have the 80 hours in the sick bank and usually lose a few sick days each year. I end up saving them in case I need them and then don't use them. It is interesting how companies handle PTO.

 

[tvguy]

My company doesn’t have “sick days”. The first 5 days of an illness comes from PTO, then it goes into short term disability for 13 weeks. Then long term disability is next, if you elected to buy it. When we went to PTO, I had over 10 years, went from 20 days to 30 days. So the extra 10 days accounts for sick time, personal time. We work a hybrid schedule, 3 days in office and 2 days at home. If you are sick, most managers will approve work at home, assuming you are able. We did it for 2 years during Covid.

5 consecutive days or 5 days scattered over the year? Most places I worked would put you on short time disability but only after five consecutive days of illness and only with a Doctor's note.

 

[DebbieB]

5 consecutive days or 5 days scattered over the year? Most places I worked would put you on short time disability but only after five consecutive days of illness and only with a Doctor's note.

5 consecutive days. On the 6th day, an independent company gets the short term disability started and would get the doctor involved.

 

[tvguy]

5 consecutive days. On the 6th day, an independent company gets the short term disability started and would get the doctor involved.

Every employer I have worked for did the same thing. The stated reason, so someone with a major illness would not use up all their sick time. The other reason, so the company doesn't have to pay out additional sick time, the insurance pays it.
Everything is back to normal. I know in California during covid the state required employers to give an additional 80 hours of sick time exclusively for covid.

 

[anrew]

right now i am looking for a new job, so will see how it goes