Owning Riviera with Restrictions

[crvetter]

Actually, BWV had only a “soft goods refresh” not a full refurb back in 2016. That’s one reason I was so mad that the BRV refurb was pushed back in order to refresh Poly and VGF - it pushed BWV back, and both BRV and BWV needed refurb way more than either Poly or VGF. I can hardly wait for the full refurb!

Okay BCV was what I thought of which is in worse condition than BWV and that was a full refurb. Either way my argument is the refurbishments and new builds are much better than before and more frequent. Or heck even BRV was worse than BWV too.

 

[take36]

Okay BCV was what I thought of which is in worse condition than BWV and that was a full refurb. Either way my argument is the refurbishments and new builds are much better than before and more frequent. Or heck even BRV was worse than BWV too.

Every association is independent and every owner deserves being a priority but lets be honest, Poly and Gflo (and Contemp) are the most sought after resorts in Disney. Gflo and poly have hotels attached to them, BCV is almost their own building with their own lobby. They will never not be a priority.

 

[crvetter]

Every association is independent and every owner deserves being a priority but lets be honest, Poly and Gflo (and Contemp) are the most sought after resorts in Disney. Gflo and poly have hotels attached to them, BCV is almost their own building with their own lobby. They will never not be a priority.

Not sure how this really has to do with my comment; since the management company is the same and the priority of the refurbs have nothing to do with the perceived sought after properties at Disney, I'm missing your point. My point was to highlight that recent refurbs have specifically gotten much better with the quality and frequency. Simply highlighting that BWV, BRV, and BCV (all which were recently renovated about 7ish years ago) are/were in terrible condition since the last refurb, but CCV (near the 7 years now) and PVB were not in terrible condition and holding up much better.

I will add that BLT, PVB, and now VGF are easier to transfer into at the 7 month mark, over BWV/BCV which were more popular with DVC guests but had less "love" because they were before the change in business practices not their desirability.

As for the refurbs you already showed agreement with me that they are better given that BRV is highly desired vs what it was right after its last refurb. We could even bring SSR into the mix how much better that is now.

 

[tjkraz]

Its hardly a restriction when you can book @ 14 other resorts depending on availability. It doesn't matter what availability is at other resorts if you own a Riviera Resale contract. Buyer beware . Thats all . My thoughts are why bother with it if there are other options . Heck i like the Riv, Ive stayed there twice with my GFV points . I plan to use those points at DHV too.

Nobody every claimed it wasn't a "buyer beware" situation with Riviera resale.

The post of mine that you quoted specifically addressed the idea that the resale restrictions will lead to some perfect storm of member dissatisfaction where few people are able to get what they want at Riviera. That within a few years, the sheer number of resale owners will overwhelm the resort. In reality, many direct Riviera owners will happily book other resorts at 7 months...just as we've all been doing for 30+ years now.

At risk of repeating myself, I don't expect it to be much different than BCV or BWV today where some people rush to the absolute most popular room/dates inside the 11 month window (early December, marathon weekend, etc.). Right now, there are exactly 7 nights with no studios available from mid-December to mid-April. Two Bedrooms are similar and 1BR are wide open.

At 7 months, Riviera resale owners will certainly have fewer options. But even now, there are a few dozen nights available in studios throughout the fall, with more in 1BR and 2BR. I would never recommend someone make Riviera resale their ONLY contract. But I suspect it would be rather easy to effectively manage reservations inside the 11 month window. For short notice reservations or unexpected changes, it might come down to stalking the website or booking with points from another home.

In 20 years of owning, I've never had to cancel a trip on such short notice that I'd get burned by these restrictions.

 

[stlrod]

I have or have had about 10 contracts over my history with DVC. I picked up two resale Riviera contracts early in the pandemic (all others I currently have are direct) totaling 510 points. They were the BEST DVC decisions I've made. Net after renting the free points they came with I paid an average of $108 per point. I don't plan to use them for at least another year when newly born grandkids are older. Been easy to rent at $23-25 per point so my net investment (after accounting for dues) by the time I am done renting 3 years' worth will be around $60 per point.

 

[thelionqueen]

Every association is independent and every owner deserves being a priority but let’s be honest, Poly and Gflo (and Contemp) are the most sought after resorts in Disney. Gflo and poly have hotels attached to them, BCV is almost their own building with their own lobby. They will never not be a priority.

I don’t thing GVV & PVB are the most sought after reservations. I believe the hardest to get are GCV, BCV & BWV. Of course the west coast property is its own animal, so let’s discuss WDW properties. In every instance of booking resorts at 7 months, the absolute hardest resort to get into is BCV, in my experience. Every guest is different and is difficult to gauge the most sought after, other than availability at 7 months.

 

[take36]

I don’t thing GVV & PVB are the most sought after reservations. I believe the hardest to get are GCV, BCV & BWV. Of course the west coast property is its own animal, so let’s discuss WDW properties. In every instance of booking resorts at 7 months, the absolute hardest resort to get into is BCV, in my experience. Every guest is different and is difficult to gauge the most sought after, other than availability at 7 months.

Of course everyone has different preferences and loves different resorts. Beach club is hard to get because it’s small but it’s absolutely worth it!

In terms of the general public perception, poly and gflo are “the” Disney hotels. One is flagship the other an original resort. From a public relations and perception it’s very important to disney that gflo and poly presents well to the public and it’s members.

And yes the newer resorts seems to be holding up better but I’m not handyman so maybe the quality and design choices contributed?

I am just worried that riviera resale owners will be “stuck” at a resort that isn’t a priority in 10 years and riviera design is base on grand and luxury which requires upkeep, something that Disney does better then other timeshares but does have a history of lacking sometimes.

Beauty of dvc is choices and this restriction is taking away a huge choice.

 

[crvetter]

Of course everyone has different preferences and loves different resorts. Beach club is hard to get because it’s small but it’s absolutely worth it!

In terms of the general public perception, poly and gflo are “the” Disney hotels. One is flagship the other an original resort. From a public relations and perception it’s very important to disney that gflo and poly presents well to the public and it’s members.

And yes the newer resorts seems to be holding up better but I’m not handyman so maybe the quality and design choices contributed?

I am just worried that riviera resale owners will be “stuck” at a resort that isn’t a priority in 10 years and riviera design is base on grand and luxury which requires upkeep, something that Disney does better then other timeshares but does have a history of lacking sometimes.

Beauty of dvc is choices and this restriction is taking away a huge choice.

This is where I disagree. Have you been in a cash room at the GF prior to the renovation going on? It was tired, dirty, and over priced. But have you been on a cash room at Yacht club, very nice.

Have you been in a cash room WL prior to the renovation, tired and dirty but post renovation extremely nice.

Disney doesn’t care what seems like a flagship or not (again GF and Poly converted cash rooms to DVC because the cash bookings were weak). They care only to renovate on some timed schedule and cash booking are near 90% so they renovate when that suffers or they need to.

It’s not really doom and gloom that DVC won’t renovate non Poly and GF properties. They legally can’t be treating some resorts with preference here and the owners pay for those renovations 100% not Disney. So I think we can safely assume all DVC will be upkept similarly. The stark change we see right now is just new mentality vs old mentality but all properties are being moved to the new.

 

[take36]

This is where I disagree. Have you been in a cash room at the GF prior to the renovation going on? It was tired, dirty, and over priced. But have you been on a cash room at Yacht club, very nice.

Have you been in a cash room WL prior to the renovation, tired and dirty but post renovation extremely nice.

Disney doesn’t care what seems like a flagship or not (again GF and Poly converted cash rooms to DVC because the cash bookings were weak). They care only to renovate on some timed schedule and cash booking are near 90% so they renovate when that suffers or they need to.

It’s not really doom and gloom that DVC won’t renovate non Poly and GF properties. They legally can’t be treating some resorts with preference here and the owners pay for those renovations 100% not Disney. So I think we can safely assume all DVC will be upkept similarly. The stark change we see right now is just new mentality vs old mentality but all properties are being moved to the new.

I see where you are coming from. Not saying they wont renovate just worried they will drag their feet.

Maybe I have just been lucky, spoiled, or just have low standards. I stay at Gflo dvc almost every year and cash sometimes the years I don’t and they always seemed fine and good to me. And yes gflo is overpriced but hey what can you do, my family loves it. Poly I don’t own (and are mainly studios) so I usually go in with friends and family in the bungalows but the last time I stayed (2019?) the cash regular seem fantastic too.

In the end I’m not super concerned about the refurb schedules as if it’s real bad then this board will complain and I will be sure to avoid it! With riviera resale you would need to rent it out and book elsewhere if you want to avoid any temporary issues.

 

[crvetter]

I see where you are coming from. Not saying they wont renovate just worried they will drag their feet.

Maybe I have just been lucky, spoiled, or just have low standards. I stay at Gflo dvc almost every year and cash sometimes the years I don’t and they always seemed fine and good to me. And yes gflo is overpriced but hey what can you do, my family loves it. Poly I don’t own (and are mainly studios) so I usually go in with friends and family in the bungalows but the last time I stayed (2019?) the cash regular seem fantastic too.

In the end I’m not super concerned about the refurb schedules as if it’s real bad then this board will complain and I will be sure to avoid it! With riviera resale you would need to rent it out and book elsewhere if you want to avoid any temporary issues.

Your last paragraph is probably the important one. When they decide to do a renovation they inventory will be depressed during a certain time window. Which if you can’t trade out at 7 months means you might not be going to WDW with your points then.

 

[thelionqueen]

This is where I disagree. Have you been in a cash room at the GF prior to the renovation going on? It was tired, dirty, and over priced. But have you been on a cash room at Yacht club, very nice.

Have you been in a cash room WL prior to the renovation, tired and dirty but post renovation extremely nice.

Disney doesn’t care what seems like a flagship or not (again GF and Poly converted cash rooms to DVC because the cash bookings were weak). They care only to renovate on some timed schedule and cash booking are near 90% so they renovate when that suffers or they need to.

It’s not really doom and gloom that DVC won’t renovate non Poly and GF properties. They legally can’t be treating some resorts with preference here and the owners pay for those renovations 100% not Disney. So I think we can safely assume all DVC will be upkept similarly. The stark change we see right now is just new mentality vs old mentality but all properties are being moved to the new.

I agree with this. To me, GF is perceived to be the nicest as it’s among the most expensive, but to me it’s meh at best. Everytime I walk in it feels sterile..either a hospital or the Titanic, depending on the season. I don’t think Disney prioritizes any resort over another..it’s just when it’s time. The refurb st BCV is amazing!!

 

[Nursemanit]

BC and contemporary sell out their cash rooms - VGF and Poly don’t - so whatever may be called the flagship I bet the business office likes BC and contemporary best.

 

[EYL]

Its hardly a restriction when you can book @ 14 other resorts depending on availability. It doesn't matter what availability is at other resorts if you own a Riviera Resale contract. Buyer beware . Thats all . My thoughts are why bother with it if there are other options . Heck i like the Riv, Ive stayed there twice with my GFV points . I plan to use those points at DHV too.

Yes and no. I agree with you at the present time. But those resale restrictions will be very noticeable in 2042 when there are 9 DVC resorts remaining out of the O14. 20 years after that, only 3 of the O14 resorts will be remaining. So the question is how will availability be affected post-2042 if you now buy into the O14 with restrictions that aren't quite noticeable at this time? Or better yet, how will the value of your contract be affected after every expiration? Will it maintain its value? Or will it go down to zero?

I'm just putting this out so people think of the restrictions as they buy resale now. Don't ignore them just because you're buying the O14. If you're young, or plan on passing it down, consider the worst case and hope for the best. But if you buy where you want to stay, you can't go wrong.

 

[mz-s]

If you're buying for the long term, realize that over the course of your contract (especially a long contract like Riviera), most of your money is going to be in annual dues and not in the initial buy-in. So don't be penny wise and pound foolish. Know the differences between resale and direct (besides just price) and make the best decision for your family.

 

[Sandisw]

Yes and no. I agree with you at the present time. But those resale restrictions will be very noticeable in 2042 when there are 9 DVC resorts remaining out of the O14. 20 years after that, only 3 of the O14 resorts will be remaining. So the question is how will availability be affected post-2042 if you now buy into the O14 with restrictions that aren't quite noticeable at this time? Or better yet, how will the value of your contract be affected after every expiration? Will it maintain its value? Or will it go down to zero?

I'm just putting this out so people think of the restrictions as they buy resale now. Don't ignore them just because you're buying the O14. If you're young, or plan on passing it down, consider the worst case and hope for the best. But if you buy where you want to stay, you can't go wrong.

To add to all that you shared, in 2042, two of the most popular resorts are ending...BWV and BCV....so, there very well be added competition for the near park resorts that are left...CCV, Poly, VGF and BLT..

My guess is it will become even hard for those who want those resorts, especially if one buys into the big three of SSR, OKW, and AKV expecting it to be easier to move into those high demand resorts.