Ownership Demand for Hawaii DVC Resort?

[epicureangirl]

Remember that the west-coasters (and that includes Canadians like me) do not have a huge amount of tropical islands close by, like the East Coasters do with the Caribbean. Hawaii is THE island destination for us, period. Disney World is NOT a popular destination (in comparison), because of the hassle of connecting flights, flight time and additional costs. Not many of my friends or co-workers have ever been to Florida, but all of them have been to Hawaii.

For those people who do not frequent Disney World, the Disney name would still attract people looking for a family-friendly vacation. I think at some point on these boards you will see the new Hawaii owners asking questions about the Florida locations, and considering ad-ons there! There are very few people IMHO that know about DVC, but with Hawaii and GCV, I'm sure that will change.

 

[squidmo]

But therein lies the rub for those who do care. And despite owning at what will probably be a high demand resort, one will lose any advantage when booking at WDW.

I don't think that most new members have the information to care which WDW resort they stay at. And as a west-coaster, if they didn't have points available at DL, I'd choose Hawaii as my home resort in a heart-beat over WDW. There is only one Hawaii property currently in the works (and my guess is there won't be a second for several years, at least), while WDW has several attractive properties. When I go to WDW every 3 - 4 years, I'm mainly going to play in the parks, and as long as I've got a villa to come home to at the end of the day I'll be happy. Would I like to stay at BCV or VWL sometime? Sure, but it's not a deal-breaker for me if I never get to. And for me, the "peak" times at WDW (Easter, Christmas, etc) are times to be avoided, because the parks are just too crowded for me, hence, I don't need the 11-month advantage to get in at those times. Hawaii is a different animal, though. In Hawaii the difference in your vacation experience between 'High' and 'Low' season isn't as great (heck- it's probably always pretty fully booked), so I wouldn't rule out wanting to spend a Christmas or Easter break in Hawaii some day.

 

[BCV23]

why would you buy Hawaii DVC if you had ONE place in WDW you really wanted to stay? doesnt make much sense.

one wouldnt lose ANY advantage for booking at WDW, they would only lose an advantage at 1 particular resort.

Its really the same arguement as with any other dvc, if you really want to stay at BCV why would you buy SSR or why would you buy AKL, or BWV or Hawaii in this case

I don't follow your logic in your first statement at all. Hawaii and WDW vacations are quite different obviously. In our case, we do enjoy Hawaii very much. At WDW, we have bought where we like to stay. The other resorts are nice but we like our "homes." So it is possible to buy HI and still have a preference of WDW resorts.

Realistically, you lose the advantage for booking most WDW DVC resorts. Right at the seven month window, there is still a nice selection. But if one waits too long, the choices are down to SSR or SSR...and sometimes OKW. At least that is my experience.

I completely agree with your last statement. It would be silly to buy HI with the hope of staying at one particular WDW resort instead and I certainly didn't suggest otherwise. But if one buys HI with the intent to stay there and then changes one's mind for a particular year, there is no advantage to owning at HI at all.

So it all comes down to the same old mantra....buy where you want to stay.

 

[bavaria]

While I realize that most of you are Americans living on the East Coast or possibly as far west as the mid West, I think that you are approaching the question from your perspective only.

Hawaii has enough demand to fill existing resorts for most of the year. As someone already mentioned, many people living in the western part of North America go to Hawaii once or twice a year, every year. Add those to the travellers from Asia, and there is a very large customer base. (My German family members even go to Hawaii regularly, as does a friend of mine who lives in Florida) Hawaii is also a common stopover location for people flying from the west coast of North America to New Zealand and/or Australia. (Significant tourism originally started there as it was a stopping off/refueling point for the first Pacific airline routes)

I do however see a greater challenge - there are a far higher percentage of deluxe and luxury resorts in Hawaii than in Florida, and Disney is definitely not deluxe or luxury. They will need to improve the product or review their pricing if they want to compete with the quality that is already in place in Hawaii.

 

[BCV23]

I don't think that most new members have the information to care which WDW resort they stay at. And as a west-coaster, if they didn't have points available at DL, I'd choose Hawaii as my home resort in a heart-beat over WDW. There is only one Hawaii property currently in the works (and my guess is there won't be a second for several years, at least), while WDW has several attractive properties. When I go to WDW every 3 - 4 years, I'm mainly going to play in the parks, and as long as I've got a villa to come home to at the end of the day I'll be happy. Would I like to stay at BCV or VWL sometime? Sure, but it's not a deal-breaker for me if I never get to. And for me, the "peak" times at WDW (Easter, Christmas, etc) are times to be avoided, because the parks are just too crowded for me, hence, I don't need the 11-month advantage to get in at those times. Hawaii is a different animal, though. In Hawaii the difference in your vacation experience between 'High' and 'Low' season isn't as great (heck- it's probably always pretty fully booked), so I wouldn't rule out wanting to spend a Christmas or Easter break in Hawaii some day.

Great points.

 

[BCV23]

bavaria, I think people are answering about their plans. I think most of us know how popular Hawaii is. A huge % of the people I've met in HI are indeed from CA and visit on a regular basis.

I agree about the need to make the resort more of a luxury destination. Years ago, I think the deluxe WDW resorts were more luxurious. Service used to be impeccable, beds were triple sheeted, etc.. That changed when so many more resorts were added but there do seem to be small changes back in the right directions. I've read that both BCV and the Polynesian are changing to higher quality linens and the new mattresses are another nice improvement.

 

[burnsoc]

While I realize that most of you are Americans living on the East Coast or possibly as far west as the mid West, I think that you are approaching the question from your perspective only.

I think you hit the nail on the head. Most of the responses I've seen come from the perspective of people who bought to go to WDW every year. I think this was a very smart move by Disney. If I lived on the west coast, there is no way I would have purchased DVC before. With Hawaii and DL now coming into the program you have a whole new clientele. Hawaii will have no problem selling out. As someone who lives on the east coast, this is an appealling trade to me maybe every five to ten years. I'm glad they are expanding DVC outside of WDW now, it was starting to annoy me that every new resort was on property. The more options I have the happier I am with DVC. I was thinking of buying into Marriotts program also, but if DVC keeps expanding, I won't. I think a lot of the people who buy DVC Hawaii will be looking to go to WDW only every 3 -5 years. Now if they build in Colorado, I'll be one happy camper.

 

[bavaria]

bavaria, I think people are answering about their plans.

But that wasn't the question here - it was would DVC manage to sell in Hawaii?

Granny asked in his first post if he was missing something. I think that he did miss something - the volume of west coast travellers who may be interested. Several of us are simply trying to make that point.

 

[karrit2000]

If I buy in it would be a small add-on with the intention of using every 3 years by Banking & Borrowing. But if the maintenance fees are way out there then I wouldn't even consider it.

 

[BeccaG]

I think you hit the nail on the head. Most of the responses I've seen come from the perspective of people who bought to go to WDW every year. I think this was a very smart move by Disney. If I lived on the west coast, there is no way I would have purchased DVC before. With Hawaii and DL now coming into the program you have a whole new clientele. Hawaii will have no problem selling out.

I am one of those few west coast DVCers. I bought, DVC but a much smaller contract than I probably would have if I lived on the east coast. Now, I see the value of my purchase increasing, at least for me, in the opening of these new west coast DVC properties, and I hope they find success in Hawaii and continue to build. This makes DVC more valuable if I can stay "in house" so to speak and travel the country/world. It will make it less likely I will sell and diminish my need to trade out. Bottom line, I think Hawaii DVC, like most time shares in Hawaii, will do just fine!

 

[squidmo]

Now, I see the value of my purchase increasing, at least for me, in the opening of these new west coast DVC properties, and I hope they find success in Hawaii and continue to build. This makes DVC more valuable if I can stay "in house" so to speak and travel the country/world.

I agree- I think that the more off-site properties there are, the better. I've been debating buying another timeshare for my non-Disney vacations, but now I'm definitely going to wait and see what else DVC has up their sleeves.

Plus, I think the stronger the DVC system is, the stronger the resale values will be, and that's good for all owners.

 

[BCV23]

But that wasn't the question here - it was would DVC manage to sell in Hawaii?

Granny asked in his first post if he was missing something. I think that he did miss something - the volume of west coast travellers who may be interested. Several of us are simply trying to make that point.

Yes, I knew that was Granny's question but as normal the discussion has branched out. I interpreted your post to mean that those who responded about their plans were unaware of how popular Hawaii was. And that's not the case at all in my estimation.

I completely agree that HI will be a great lure for potential DVC buyers on the West Coast.

 

[doubletrouble_vb]

I see this as DVC balancing out their client load. I suspect if you looked at the statistics DVC will be substantially owned by people located in the NY/NJ/CT Tri-state area and Florida. And yes other eastern seaboard states with major population centers make up big swaths of the DVC populace as well.

This gives DVC an inroad into the western population centers. Hawaii becomes DL's HHI but corrected (I hope) for mistakes made there. It also gives them some place for existing DVC'ers to trade out to. Those trading in from Hawaii will be happy to get what they can rather than being specific. In a way it should help to start drawing off specific demand at WDW.

 

[tvwalsh]

As an original OKW buyer, I remember the grand plans that DVC had for a very large Vero Beach complex. Most of the accomodations were to be in a very large high rise building (or buildings) on the other side of the road. A million dollar tunnel was built under the road.

Sales were very slow and the plans were scaled back.

Hilton Head was also a disappointment to the DVC powers that be.

The lesson, which I thought had been learned, was DVC is an easy success when new buildings are built inside the WDW property. Outside of Disney, it is much more difficult.

I think DVC Hawaii will be a very slow seller and will be unable to compete profitably with the existing timeshares, many of which were built when costs were much lower and the market was much kinder!

I think those of you who think the expensive new building on 20+ acres of very expensive land will be a financial success are flat wrong.

Not only do I think it will be a failure, but I think it will hurt all DVC members, as DVC tries to make up the money by tightening the screws on us.

I

 

[yitbos96bb]

It will be interesting to see how many of the 800 rooms will be DVC. I can't imagine them being able to sell points for even half of that number.

You all seem to be forgetting WHO this is targeted for. I'll give you a clue... IT ISN'T MOST OF THE USA (with the exception of West Coasters) ... its people from a country that rhymes with RAPAN!

Seriously, Hawaii is a hugely popular Japanese and asian travel destination. The same Japanese who LOVE Disney and many of whom fly to Florida to do an intimate wedding at the Wedding Pavillon (Watched many of them when I worked there). There will be many Asians who jump at the chance to be able to buy a time share and use it in Hawaii, Disney Land and Disneyworld, plus possibly the future DVCs at Asian Disney parks; if Disney builds them.

 

[squidmo]

The lesson, which I thought had been learned, was DVC is an easy success when new buildings are built inside the WDW property. Outside of Disney, it is much more difficult.

I think DVC Hawaii will be a very slow seller and will be unable to compete profitably with the existing timeshares, many of which were built when costs were much lower and the market was much kinder!

I think the problem with Vero Beach and HHI was that these properties didn't expand the market for DVC significantly (i.e.- they were trying to appeal to the same people they were selling WDW to). The Hawaii property, however, allows for marketing to a much wider audience, and that's why I think that it will contribute to the continued success of DVC. Right now, DVC doesn't have as strong as an appeal on the west coast, because why spend 5+ hours flying to WDW? If we want Disney, we can go to DL, and if I'm going to fly 5 hours, I'd rather go to Hawaii instead.

Another difference is they are going to have a large number of hotel rooms in addition to DVC units (VB and HHI are just DVC). I'm sure they will have a nice DVC sales center, and this will be another way to bring in many more new members.

If DVC wants to continue to grow and bring in more profits, they are going to have to expand- there is only so much market to capture in WDW, even DL expansion can only add so much. Hawaii is a great first step "beyond the berm" so to speak, because it's such a high-demand location.

 

[Anal Annie]

Hummm. Lots of interesting comments going on here. One of the reasons we purchased DVC was because it IS a timeshare and we intend to use it as extensively as we can both at WDW and thru trading out. We try to go to Hawaii once every 5 years, although primarily to Maui - so a DVC in Hawaii is a HUGE bonus - as long as they make enough units for us to book at 7 months! We probably really can't afford to add-on there - and won't unless we find we can't get in at 7 months. This will be a perfect companion to add 3 or 4 nights on Oahu to go along with a weeks trade on Maui (as we usually go for about 10 days)!!

I think this will open up a whole new market opportunity for Disney to sell to the other side of the world too. The Asian tourism market on Oahu is astounding. The flights to Hawaii are full these days and timeshares are hot - I don't think they will have any problem selling this product. The fact that it's not tied to a theme park and I read that it will have a "noticable lack of characters" - I think that all says it WILL be a luxury property - one that WILL be able to compete in the market there. They've already done their research. They have a plan. And I am SO-O HAPPY about it!

(PS) we purchased at SSR because we were able to get in last year during the Friends & Family promotion - so that was the best deal going. AKV had been announced, but it wasn't for sale yet. We intend to try out all of the diff. DVC properties so we admit to being ones who did not "buy where we want to stay" as we want each trip to be a different vacation! We didn't buy at SSR to always have the same exact vacation every single year! That's one of the beauties of the way DVC works! We bought a timeshare that we felt was a quality product that gave us a lot of vacation options! We're looking at at the big picture!

 

[salmoneous]

Not many of my friends or co-workers have ever been to Florida, but all of them have been to Hawaii.

I get the point that Hawaii is very popular, especially for the West Coast and Asia.

What I wonder - and I'm just wondering, not arguing - is how popular a DISNEY timeshare will be in Hawaii? Other timeshares have advantages over Disney. In general they are cheaper and have better trading value. What does Disney have to offer that other resorts don't?

Hawaii DVC seems great for the WDW owner who wants to go Hawaii every now and then. Is there a market for folks who want to primarily vacation in Hawaii and go to WDW every now and then?

As I said, I don't know. Just asking questions...

 

[Tinkaroo]

I agree with the above posters that cite the Asian and US West Coast populations as a huge untapped market for DVC.

Plus, there are also plenty of people here in the US that to them, Hawaii is like Disney World is to most of us.

I can speak from experience, as my father is one of these. DH and I own DVC, while my parents own 3 separate weeks (and counting) at Marriott's Waiohai Beach Club on Kauai. My father gets as giddy about Hawaii as I do about WDW, so both of our purchases were no-brainers to us (plus, we each get the added benefit of tagging along occasionally on each others' trips ). Now, my family might be in a bit of a unique situation in that we do a lot of traveling, so we're able to fly on miles for our yearly treks to Kauai, but even if we were having to pay for airfare, I'm finding I'm not even getting the prices I used to to fly to Florida, so another $300-$400 is not THAT big of a sticker shock. And not having to pay for accomodations (which can be atrocious on Hawaii) makes the cost of getting there not as bad.

I'm interested to see what Disney does with the property. I do agree that there are some very luxurious accomodations on all the islands, and I'll be watching to see if Disney can marry that type of luxury while also making the resort family-friendly. I'll also be interested to see if they pair this resort with maybe some daytrip-type outings, similar to what they do with ABD. I haven't been to Oahu yet, but if I could experience some of the major tourist attractions there with Disney having made all the arrangements and greasing the wheels, I'd go in a heartbeat!

DH and I are not candidates to buy into this property (we'll inherit those weeks on Kauai, and we prefer that island's more "native" feel), but I wouldn't be opposed to adding a couple of nights there every so often just to see what Disney is offering.

 

[Longhairbear]

I am one of those few west coast DVCers. I bought, DVC but a much smaller contract than I probably would have if I lived on the east coast. Now, I see the value of my purchase increasing, at least for me, in the opening of these new west coast DVC properties, and I hope they find success in Hawaii and continue to build. This makes DVC more valuable if I can stay "in house" so to speak and travel the country/world. It will make it less likely I will sell and diminish my need to trade out. Bottom line, I think Hawaii DVC, like most time shares in Hawaii, will do just fine!

I agree, we are also west coast DVC members. When HI was announced we realized we were just handed free accomodations in HI. Our membership is paid for, we are beyond the break even point, and we only have the annual dues to pay. The value to us has just increased immensly.