Ownership Demand for Hawaii DVC Resort?

[tjkraz]

Disney won't have any problems selling this. Look at how beloved the Polynesian Resort is among WDW guests. Soon Disney will be able to send them to the real thing. West coast residents and those overseas will gobble it up. When Disney announces that the resort will become a DCL port, the cruise line fans will jump on board (pun intended ) too.

I think we've officially reached the point where it's not even worth debating the perceived impact that a single destination will have on the program as a whole. We just can't have a meaningful discussion about whether Ko Olino Villas owners will help or hurt availability at the Beach Club. In less than a year three new destinations (AKV, GC, Hawaii) have been announced and a fourth (Contemp) appears to be on the horizon. Those destinations will not only bring new owners into the system but will alter the habits of people who have been using DVC for more than a decade.

Come 2011 when all four of those projects are operational, the last 16 years worth of member usage trends will be virtually meaningless.

 

[burnsoc]

As an original OKW buyer, I remember the grand plans that DVC had for a very large Vero Beach complex. Most of the accomodations were to be in a very large high rise building (or buildings) on the other side of the road. A million dollar tunnel was built under the road.

Sales were very slow and the plans were scaled back.

Hilton Head was also a disappointment to the DVC powers that be.

The lesson, which I thought had been learned, was DVC is an easy success when new buildings are built inside the WDW property. Outside of Disney, it is much more difficult.

I think DVC Hawaii will be a very slow seller and will be unable to compete profitably with the existing timeshares, many of which were built when costs were much lower and the market was much kinder!

I think those of you who think the expensive new building on 20+ acres of very expensive land will be a financial success are flat wrong.

Not only do I think it will be a failure, but I think it will hurt all DVC members, as DVC tries to make up the money by tightening the screws on us. :scared1

I

I think DVC definitely learned their lesson from VB and HH. Hawaii is a year round vacation destination with a lot to do outside of the resort. The land they purchased is on the water unlike HH. And they will be marketing to a whole new group of potential buyers. With a sales center at DL and being a mixed use resort that has a sales center they should have no problem bringing in potential buyers. I fail to see how they could possibly make up any lost money by "tightening the screws on us". Certainly the profit won't be as high because they had to purchase the land, but that doesn't mean it will be a financial flop. Sure the cost to build now is higher than it was five years ago, and the building cost today will seem like a bargain in five years time too.
Frankly, I'm glad to see DVC break away from their fear of building outside of WDW. In my mind the biggest mistake DVC has made was not going ahead with the proposed NYC DVC.

 

[Granny]

I will admit that when I started this thread I really didn't think much about Asian and other international visitors to Hawaii. That could be a very strong market for this new resort.

I get the point that Hawaii is very popular, especially for the West Coast and Asia.

What I wonder - and I'm just wondering, not arguing - is how popular a DISNEY timeshare will be in Hawaii? Other timeshares have advantages over Disney. In general they are cheaper and have better trading value. What does Disney have to offer that other resorts don't?

Hawaii DVC seems great for the WDW owner who wants to go Hawaii every now and then. Is there a market for folks who want to primarily vacation in Hawaii and go to WDW every now and then?

As I said, I don't know. Just asking questions...

I'm kind of at the same spot as salmoneous on this...can Disney really attract timeshare ownership in Hawaii with all the less expensive, and possibly higher-end, options available?

I guess what I'm hearing is that DVC Hawaii probably won't appeal as much to many of the existing DVC owners who buy mainly to visit WDW. It may open a new market to tap the Disney reputation for service and entertainment.

It will certainly be interesting. Hopefully, this will not go the way of Eagle Pines Villas.

 

[jarestel]

I'm one of those who would be satisfied with an occasional visit to Hawaii and wouldn't consider buying points there. Or, for that matter, at any non-WDW resort since I would simply never visit often enough to warrant it.

I'm glad the option will exist but like Granny, I'm not sure how many folks would actually purchase points there. As has been suggested, maybe it will be marketed more for the people who aren't DisneyWorld fanatics. It will be interesting to see how it sells.

 

[BroganMc]

To me DVC Hawaii is a doubel-edged sword.

It'll attract West Coasters and Asian-Pacificers to DVC Membership.
It adds new destinations to existing membership.

But it also means more competition for WDW resorts at 7 months. (You think SSR has made BCV/BWV/VWL impssible to book, try adding multiple offsite ownerships.) While not every WDW owner will want to travel to Hawaii, you can bet Hawaii owners will want to make the pilgrimage to WDW.

As for whether DVC Hawaii makes good sense as a basic timeshare investment, I really can't see that. One of the reasons Marriott works so well is that they include multiple uses for your timeshare. (I.e. Easy deposits to II with full membership benefits; trade weeks for non-expiring Marriott rewards points; reward points can be used for airfare and hotels worldwide.)

About the only thing Marriott fails at doing that Disney does is retain its resale value. But since timeshares are meant to be used rather than as an investment, I can't see that being enough.

 

[cobbler]

I agree about appealing to the Asian market. My husband and I honeymooned in HI back in '99 and honestly sometimes we swore we were in Japan

Being from the midwest we are running about $650 RT to fly to HI with 1 stop or $575 if we want to bounce all over the planet. For 4 of us that is about 3 grand - just to get there. I can do a lot with 3 grand at WDW.

We would love to get back (and curse the hotel we stayed at on our honeymoon) but it would be an every 5 year type of thing.

It definatly is marketed towards the Asian and W. Coast market as well as giving another carrot in the selling tactic for those of us from the Midwest going east.


As much as I would like to see something in the Caribbean or Bahamas - it costs me 1/2 the price to get to Cancun than to Hawaii - they have enough properties over on this side and expanding westward is a good move.

 

[burnsoc]

I'm kind of at the same spot as salmoneous on this...can Disney really attract timeshare ownership in Hawaii with all the less expensive, and possibly higher-end, options available?

I've seen several people mention the fact that Disney is an expensive timeshare. It is in relation to most timeshares, but not those located in Hawaii. And most definitely not in relation to Marriotts in Hawaii. My hope is that DVC becomes like the Marriott program with all the trading options without having to go to II. BroganMc, from what I understand those Marriott points are only if you buy direct from Marriott (correct me if I'm wrong), and
buying from them is significantly more expensive than resale.

 

[tvwalsh]

How could they tighten the screws? They've already done some of them:

$95, maybe more, for trading into the WDW disney collection.

No breakfasts, not even water at member meetings.

Increases in parking fees and possible elimination of free valet parking.

Eliminating discount for annual passes.

Cutting the freqency of bus service.

Charging for reservations not made on line.

Less landscaping.

Elimination of free DVD rental and member discounts for rentals.

Self service check-in. Charge for counter service.

Charges for intra-resort transportation.

Charges for storage of luggage and baggage transfer.

Increases in fees for room changes. Elimination of free coffee for members.

Increases in fees for towels and soap.

Increasing the interval for trash and tidy.

No free housekeeping on long visits.

Elimination of Magical Express for DVC members.

Shorter hours at the pools.

Higher prices at the restaurants and shops


Yes, they can, indeed, tighten the screws as they have already started to do.

 

[gppnj]

I think there are so many members now that they could sell out most of the resort with just add-ons.

Is it just me, or does anyone else think that they might have some issues with selling the DVC resort ownership in Hawaii?

I for one would love to visit Hawaii by using my DVC, but I can't see it being very often.

If we go with the Buy Where You Want to Stay the Most theory....how many people would really want to make MOST of their vacations to the Hawaii DVC location?

If people are still buying DVC primarily to go to WDW, is Hawaii a bad choice as there are no "fall back" plans that can be made at the 11 month window?

I suppose if I lived on the West Coast then an annual trip to Hawaii might be pretty feasible. But for most, wouldn't Hawaii be more of a "every once in a while" trip vs an annual or every other year trip?

Don't get me wrong....I think it's very exciting to have options other than Orlando, Vero Beach and Hilton Head with DVC and not messing with trade outs. I'm just wondering whether owning at Hawaii will really make sense for a lot of people unless they aren't planning on going to WDW all that often?

Am I missing something?

 

[tjkraz]

How could they tighten the screws? They've already done some of them:

(snip)

Yes, they can, indeed, tighten the screws as they have already started to do.

Wow, what purpose does that list serve?

Of the things listed, the only one I notice that they have done is the $95 booking fee.

Meanwhile in recent years Disney / DVC have given us things like the AP discount, included DVC members in attraction previews and other special events, free DME access, member access to the dining plans, scheduled events like the summer and holiday members-only parties, ticket discounts for MVMCP, MNNSHP, etc.

You might want to try balancing the wild speculation with a dose of reality.

 

[3DisneyKids]

subscribing!

 

[simzac]

I love WDW as much as everyone here. But there are so many different vacations to take in our lifetimes that don't have to include WDW, and with DVC adding Hawaii and who knows what else, we will be able to start enjoying these places while still staying in DVC accomodations. I hope Hawaii is just the beginning. And for those who worry about the 7 month window, who knows, maybe these new resorts outside of WDW will entice travelers to try their points outside of WDW. JMO

 

[burnsoc]

How could they tighten the screws? They've already done some of them:

$95, maybe more, for trading into the WDW disney collection.

No breakfasts, not even water at member meetings.

Increases in parking fees and possible elimination of free valet parking.

Eliminating discount for annual passes.

Cutting the freqency of bus service.

Charging for reservations not made on line.

Less landscaping.

Elimination of free DVD rental and member discounts for rentals.

Self service check-in. Charge for counter service.

Charges for intra-resort transportation.

Charges for storage of luggage and baggage transfer.

Increases in fees for room changes. Elimination of free coffee for members.

Increases in fees for towels and soap.

Increasing the interval for trash and tidy.

No free housekeeping on long visits.

Elimination of Magical Express for DVC members.

Shorter hours at the pools.

Higher prices at the restaurants and shops


Yes, they can, indeed, tighten the screws as they have already started to do.

I think you forgot to add charging for toilet paper.
As far as charging for reservations not made online, I would love for them to do this as it would mean I could book online!

 

[Island Mouse]

I don't think Disney will have any problems selling out their Ko Olina DVC, although I am interested to see just how many of the 800 units will be dedicated to DVC. But I do think the number of add-on contracts will far outnumber the new member contracts sold for the Hawaii DVC. There is a huge west coast and Asia market that will make this successful. For the units that don't go to DVC, Disney won't have a problem keeping them at 90%+ occupancy year-round. If I had to guess, I would say 1/3 or less become DVC. But we'll just have to wait and see.

 

[JimC]

I've seen several people mention the fact that Disney is an expensive timeshare. It is in relation to most timeshares, but not those located in Hawaii. And most definitely not in relation to Marriotts in Hawaii. My hope is that DVC becomes like the Marriott program with all the trading options without having to go to II. BroganMc, from what I understand those Marriott points are only if you buy direct from Marriott (correct me if I'm wrong), and
buying from them is significantly more expensive than resale.

We do not know how DVC will price Hawaii, but I suspect it will be on par with or higher than Marriott.

You are correct, the ability to exchange your interval is a benefit of buying directly from MVCI. It is the only meaningful difference between resale and buying direct.

 

[tidefan]

I don't think Disney will have any problems selling out their Ko Olina DVC, although I am interested to see just how many of the 800 units will be dedicated to DVC. But I do think the number of add-on contracts will far outnumber the new member contracts sold for the Hawaii DVC. There is a huge west coast and Asia market that will make this successful. For the units that don't go to DVC, Disney won't have a problem keeping them at 90%+ occupancy year-round. If I had to guess, I would say 1/3 or less become DVC. But we'll just have to wait and see.

Jim Lewis stated in the press release that at least half would be DVC, so that adds up to at least 400 units. Looking at the concept art there is one obvious tower and if you look on the left, it appears that there is a similar tower behind the foliage to the left. My guess is that one building will be hotel while the other will be DVC.

I think that this may be just the tip of the iceberg with DVC. Adding HI and CA back to back sure does make the timing of the opening of the Chicago Sales Center much more explainable now. What is interesting is that there are only 50 units at DL, but apparently 400 at HI. Makes me think that there might be something else brewing in Anaheim, perhaps a stand-alone DVC?

 

[disney-super-mom]

What is interesting is that there are only 50 units at DL, but apparently 400 at HI. Makes me think that there might be something else brewing in Anaheim, perhaps a stand-alone DVC?

Yeah, well with only 50 units at DL, THERE BETTER BE SOMETHING ELSE BREWING IN ANAHEIM!!!

 

[disneymom8589]

As a West Coaster, it was encouraging to have recent announcements of two DVC properties in our "neck of the woods", even though the GCV is only offering a minimal number of units. With the announcement not long ago from Alaska Airlines that they'll be flying non-stop to Honolulu from Seattle, this makes it extra exciting. Now if we can only get rooms at the GCV and Hawaii DVC at the 7 month mark!!

 

[phyllisnnj]

I believe DVC is targeting a different customer base (not just the folks that want to go to WDW one or more times a year).

I think they’re going after the folks that are buying timeshares from the other hotel brands. These folks are not necessarily looking to vacation at WDW every year.

We live on the east coast and DVC is one of several timeshares that we own. We bought DVC for our WDW stay every 2 to 3 years. Even though it’s a long trip from the east coast, we’ve been to Hawaii five times since 2000. It’s one of our favorite vacation destinations. We also preferred Hawaii to the Caribbean.

Hawaii is a hot market. Hilton, Starwood and Marriott have several properties in Hawaii and building more. These resorts are generally booked solid during the summer months.

Potential timeshare buyers associate DVC with WDW stays therefore DVC is generally not considered when folks are comparing hotel based timeshares.

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=34031

There is money to be made for the hotel based timeshare companies. Potential timeshare buyers like the idea of buying from a well-known hotel brand. DVC is currently limited their customer base since most of their resorts are in WDW.

Hilton - http://library.corporate-ir.net/lib...ms/236342/March_2007_Analyst_Presentation.pdf

Starwood - http://library.corporate-ir.net/library/78/786/78669/items/263125/HOT092807.pdf

Marriott - http://ir.shareholder.com/mar/downloads/2007TimeshareAnalystPresentation.pdf

I believe DVC’s offsite expansion is a very good move especially if it’s combined with Disney resorts in popular vacation destinations. DVC offers one of the most flexible point based system in the timeshare industry. I think this will be very appealing to potential buyers. However if DVC wants to compete with the other hotel based timeshares, I think DVC needs to go with the more spacious OKW layout combined with upscale décor for their offsite locations.

 

["Got Disney"]

For my family living here in California traveling to WDW every other year and Hawaii every other year is the same travel didtance...about 6 hrs each way. Than we have DL 1 hr 20 minutes away that we go to at leat 3 times a year and if they do Cabo(as is rumored) that is a hope skip and a jump from here so we have decisions to make.

Is it best for us to buy at DL or Hawaii? We can get great priceing for Concierge with an AP if no rooms available.

To me getting small add ons does nothing unless it is enough to give us at least 10 days so(except DL) So unless we are willing to add on that many we would have to wait for the 7 mo. mark,

DL has less villas so will be harder to get into but Hawaii may have at least 300-400 so will be easier to get into with exsisting pts.

What do you think?