Overzealous school nurse is killing my budget

[LanaJae]

I can totally understand what OP is saying. I had this same problem with my daycare. I can understand that they have to protect the other kids from getting sick, but when it is the same thing - it's ridiculous. My daughter had constant runny nose and during the spring her eyes would goop up and they would insist I take her to the doctor when I would tell them it is just allergies. She was already going to the doctor once a month, anyway. So I would have to take her and the doctor would ask me why I was bringing her in because there is absolutely nothing wrong with her. I would tell him I just need a note saying there is absolutely nothing wrong with her to give to the daycare because they won't let her come back with out. He would just shake his head and give me the note. Yes - wasted time and wasted money.

It's the whole lack of common sense that's frustrating. I'm glad schools and daycares are protective, but when you have a kid that has a known condition and it always looks the same, then for the love of Micky, put two and two together.

OP - I am so sorry your little girl is going through this. I know it's probably impossible, but I would want to move. We don't have real nurses physically in our schools in Minnesota, but every effort is made to accommodate a child with disabilities and health conditions. I sure hope your school is just being mismanaged and it's not the way all kids are treated in your area! I have a friend with a profoundly autistic son who is still in pullups at age 12. They live in Maine - she did have trouble in one school district because they didn't have the funding (or didn't know how to manage their funding) to accommodate him with what he needed. She moved just a few miles away and it was the difference between night and day.

 

[fakereadhed]

OMG, do you ever have a lawsuit there! That is discrimination against someone with a disability to the Nth degree. You need to get them to write a 504 plan for your DD. It is her right under the law. Here's some info on it, and she WOULD qualify:
http://specialchildren.about.com/od/504s/f/504faq1.htm

If I were you, I'd be talking to a lawyer.

Heck with that 504! She needs an IEP. Don't know the situation but just with the incontinence issues she could qualify for "Other Health Impairment" with a doctor's note saying she needed assistance related to her medical problems while she's at school. If she already has an IEP, maybe they need to add an aide to change her. This makes me really !!! Way more angry than the original post about the overzealous nurse.

 

[Mono~rail]

I don't know if this is available in other areas, but in our area there is an organziation that acts as an advocacy service for children with special needs who are in the school system. The organization knows the ins and outs of what the school system is supposed to provide. They go with the parents for IEP meetings or if there is a problem. I wouldn't know about except for the fact that they have fliers up at the therapy clinics that my dd goes to. I haven't had to call them, but when I was getting so much resistance over her feeding pump I was thisclose to calling them. Seriously, if I had heard one more word about it, I was ready to call them.

In my area, it is called Families Helping Families, and it was founded by a mom of a special needs child. Perhaps other people could call around to the therapy clinics in their area or their pediatricians office to find out if something like that is available to them.

OP, you definitely need to find an advocacy organization to be on your side. A good friend of mine did have to call them, and they helped her with her dd. That's how I found out more info about it.

 

[mmouse1239]

I am a special education teacher.(have been for 23 years) I have never encountered an IEP that was written for OHI (other health impairment) for incontinence. There is a very distinct list of things that qualify as other health impairment. I don't believe that incontinence is one of them. My students who, over the years, have qualified for IEP's based on that reason have had issues like autism, muscular dystrophy, etc. I know that she can receive a 504, but I don't think she would qualify as other health impaired. JMHO.

 

[mmouse1239]

I did check some websites for clarification on the 504 vs. IEP discussion. I do know that one is covered under IDEA and one is covered under ADA. Not sure which one is which, but a student can't have both an IEP and a 504. the recurring thing for a health issue to be considered as OHI to receive an IEP is if the health condition is having an adverse affect on a student's academic functioning. Are grades or achievement suffering? Just having some sort of health issue (not trying to downplay the seriousness of any health problem) does not immediately qualify a student for an IEP. Does that make sense?

 

[ajk912]

I never knew that a student couldn't have both an IEP and a 504 plan. Huh. Never knew that. I have been trying to get one for my daughter, and I thought they were just blowing me off. My daughter does have an IEP because she is special ed, but the way our school system goes that unless you are severely mentally retarded, you go in general education rooms. That's what always pissed me off about their arguments.."Well, she's in regular ed". Umm, ok, because you really don't have a good place to PUT her. Anyway. My daughter does have an IEP, because she is mildy brain damaged because she had hydrocephalus as a baby that we didn't catch early enough. Because of that, she takes twice as long to learn everything. She is also socially and emotionally delayed, and she has scoliosis and low muscle tone, too. Part of the reason of her incontinence is she says she "can't feel it". She has been seen by so many docs for this, it's being treated. She also has a bone disorder- metaphyseal chondrodysplasia- and if you research types of dwarfism and incontinence it is actually one of the side effects for some types. Her type is so rare, it's hard to find info on it. Anyway..to the school this isn't enough of a diagnosis, that's why we keep getting the run around. But, she does have an IEP, right now she gets speech therapy an hour a week and 5 hours a week of special ed- we'll probably have to bump that up next year when we do her IEP next month. She is really struggling in first grade, so we need more help for her.

 

[mmouse1239]

As for my district, and I can't speak for all....the district's goal is for children to be included in regular education as much as possible. Actually, that's the law. However, that being said, there are certainly many situations in which a student's best interests are not met within the regular classroom setting. The law says that a student must be educated within "the least restrictive environment" in which they can be successful. School districts are usually fighting with parents who want their children in places that aren't appropriate, for one reason or another. I have seen so many instances where students are more accepted, more included, and more challenged by being with their "regular" peers. On the flip side, I have seen parents who, because they cannot accept their child's limitations, have forced low functioning mentally retarded students into regular academic classes so that they can experience the socialization that the other children have. At the elementary level children are more accepting and including of others who are different. As the grades go higher and higher, that lessens. They are polite and nice to the students who are so "different" but it stops there. They don't get invited to birthday parties or school dances. They are there, but not truly included. It's very sad to watch, but it happens over and over. Unfortunately, I won't fight that battle because the law is on the side of that least restrictive environment, so it's an impossible fight. If a parent want their kid in a place where they are going to find it difficult to be successful, I will try to share my concerns, but I won't die on that hill.

 

[mmouse1239]

By the way, an IEP is your best protection. The 504 gives accommodations and exceptions for certain situations to protect your child. It does not include goals. That is why there has to be an academic impact in order to have an IEP. The goals must be measurable and monitored weekly. That is why a child who is incontinent would probably have the 504, not the IEP, unless there were academic difficulties becasue of the health problem. Children who have health problems like diabetes may need specific accommodations like being able to leave class for a snack or to check sugar levels, but they don't necessarily have academic problems caused by the diabetes. That would be covered on the 504. Did I explain that well enough?

 

[ajk912]

As for my district, and I can't speak for all....the district's goal is for children to be included in regular education as much as possible. Actually, that's the law. However, that being said, there are certainly many situations in which a student's best interests are not met within the regular classroom setting. The law says that a student must be educated within "the least restrictive environment" in which they can be successful. School districts are usually fighting with parents who want their children in places that aren't appropriate, for one reason or another. I have seen so many instances where students are more accepted, more included, and more challenged by being with their "regular" peers. On the flip side, I have seen parents who, because they cannot accept their child's limitations, have forced low functioning mentally retarded students into regular academic classes so that they can experience the socialization that the other children have. At the elementary level children are more accepting and including of others who are different. As the grades go higher and higher, that lessens. They are polite and nice to the students who are so "different" but it stops there. They don't get invited to birthday parties or school dances. They are there, but not truly included. It's very sad to watch, but it happens over and over. Unfortunately, I won't fight that battle because the law is on the side of that least restrictive environment, so it's an impossible fight. If a parent want their kid in a place where they are going to find it difficult to be successful, I will try to share my concerns, but I won't die on that hill.

I totally get what you are saying. The reason I am wishing there was a smaller class option is because my daughter is failing the first grade. The school wants her to repeat first grade, and I am not sure if that is the answer- ever since she was in special ed at 3 &4 she took longer than the other kids to pick up the material. Same thing in kindergarten. If we hold her back now, what happens when she gets to a truly hard grade- I am thinking 3, 4, 5+ and needs to repeat? We aren't talking an age issue- my daughter has been 7 for most of her first grade year. If she uses her repeat year now, she'll be 8 in first grade. That's why I wish there was a smaller group classroom so she would get more one on one attention, instead of only at the hour a day she gets in the special ed room. She just gets lost in the big setting. Sometimes you have to explain the same thing to her over and over again. I don't know what to do, hold her back, push for more special ed- ugh. Talk about going off topic in this thread! I definitely know about the "least restrictive" environment thing- but I can see how that goes both ways. It's beneficial in a lot of cases, but in other cases, it seems kids get lost in the system because of it. Because there are two classes: Either the general ed room, or the severely retarded room. Too bad she can't be in her special ed class all day! I just want her to learn- I know I should care about the social structure more, but she learns pretty much everything she does learn in her special ed class.

BTW: I agree this is a pointless battle to try to fight, it's not like they are going to create a special class for her. And you are right, it's definitely all about the "least restrictive environment". It always seems that is always one of the biggest topics of every IEP meeting. That's the way the law works. Oh well, again, not sure how I managed to take this thread so off topic!

 

[Lilyzmom]

From my experience, it would be Traumatic Brain Injury that would qualify her for an Individual Education Plan. I'm almost positive that was a separate catagory in FL, but it might have been listed under Other Health Impaired. Either way, I can't imagine how she wouldn't qualify for some sort of services. Even if it's just a resource teacher checking in periodically to see how she's coping with her personal needs.

 

[fakereadhed]

the recurring thing for a health issue to be considered as OHI to receive an IEP is if the health condition is having an adverse affect on a student's academic functioning. Are grades or achievement suffering? Just having some sort of health issue (not trying to downplay the seriousness of any health problem) does not immediately qualify a student for an IEP.

Agreed. But pulling the OP's daughter out of class and waiting for her to come in and change her affects her ability to receive the same education as the other kids.

 

[eeyoregon]

Is she really a registered nurse?? Or does she suffer from "wanna be a medical doctor but stuck in a school itis"????

 

[MarieS]

I never knew that a student couldn't have both an IEP and a 504 plan. Huh. Never knew that. I have been trying to get one for my daughter, and I thought they were just blowing me off. My daughter does have an IEP because she is special ed, but the way our school system goes that unless you are severely mentally retarded, you go in general education rooms. That's what always pissed me off about their arguments.."Well, she's in regular ed". Umm, ok, because you really don't have a good place to PUT her. Anyway. My daughter does have an IEP, because she is mildy brain damaged because she had hydrocephalus as a baby that we didn't catch early enough. Because of that, she takes twice as long to learn everything. She is also socially and emotionally delayed, and she has scoliosis and low muscle tone, too. Part of the reason of her incontinence is she says she "can't feel it". She has been seen by so many docs for this, it's being treated. She also has a bone disorder- metaphyseal chondrodysplasia- and if you research types of dwarfism and incontinence it is actually one of the side effects for some types. Her type is so rare, it's hard to find info on it. Anyway..to the school this isn't enough of a diagnosis, that's why we keep getting the run around. But, she does have an IEP, right now she gets speech therapy an hour a week and 5 hours a week of special ed- we'll probably have to bump that up next year when we do her IEP next month. She is really struggling in first grade, so we need more help for her.

I am the mother of 2 special needs sons ( hydrocephalus and other issues) and volunteer with a parent resource group for parents of children with special needs. If your child qualifies for an IEP, you cannot have a 504. If your child already has an IEP and has health needs impacting the school day or that must be attended to during the school day you might want to ask for an IHP--Individual Health Plan. My boys have these and it is attached to the IEP. The plan includes things like incontinence, how it should be handled, when to call the parent, etc. I also know of a child with these issues that has it written into the document that they are discreetly reminded to go to the bathroom at set times to help prevent a problem.

 

[stitchlovestink]

I can see why that would be annoying, but is $20 really killing your budget?

I know that $20 really shouldn't kill the budget, but what does (at least for us) is when we take a perfectly healthy child to the DR's office and they end up 'catching' one of the other 'bugs' going around and end up sick and back there again 5 to 7 days later and to top it off, the 'new bug' makes it's way around the family. So everyone gets a trip to the DR and you get to take off time from work. Also, depending on how far you have to travel to the DR's, gas is adding up too.

 

[MrMarv]

Like professionals in all fields, some school nurses are a credit to their profession, while others are a reprehensble embarrassment.

 

[Ms.Grumpy]

If your child already has an IEP and has health needs impacting the school day or that must be attended to during the school day you might want to ask for an IHP--Individual Health Plan. My boys have these and it is attached to the IEP. The plan includes things like incontinence, how it should be handled, when to call the parent, etc. I also know of a child with these issues that has it written into the document that they are discreetly reminded to go to the bathroom at set times to help prevent a problem.

Thanks for sharing this!
My stepson has agenesis of the corpus callosum, hydrocephalus, and incontinence. He has an IEP because he is cognitively and socially delayed, but we do not have a plan on what should happen or how to handle the incontinence.
I am worried that DS4 is starting Kind. this Sept. and he has asthma. I am worried that I might end up with a nurse that calls me for every single one of his coughs.

 

[MarieS]

Thanks for sharing this!
My stepson has agenesis of the corpus callosum, hydrocephalus, and incontinence. He has an IEP because he is cognitively and socially delayed, but we do not have a plan on what should happen or how to handle the incontinence.
I am worried that DS4 is starting Kind. this Sept. and he has asthma. I am worried that I might end up with a nurse that calls me for every single one of his coughs.

If you have a child with hydrocephalus who has a shunt, you should definitely have some kind of health plan in place in case a problem develops at school. The Hydrocephalus Association has a booklet for teachers on hydrocephalus that might be helpful for you on how hydro impacts education. Here is the website info:
http://www.hydroassoc.org/education_support/publications/fact-sheets

 

[8 Ears]

Oh yes we have "one of those school nurses" as well!

Your children need their hearing tested again and again and again! We took them to a specialist and then forwarded the bill to the nurse, super.... never heard a word for that again!

But my all time favorite is when the school was doing scholiosis (I never spell it the same ) screening and we returned the permission slip as not giving permission for it to be done. So said school nurse called saying everyone has it done, are we sure we checked the correct box.... hey nurse, our son is the one that is under the care of the Shriners and wears a brace 23 hours a day!! You know, the one that takes it off and has his grandmother put back on him after gym IN YOUR OFFICE EVERY week??!!?!?!?!

Never had a problem with screenings for either of the boys after that

To all of you parents who are just starting out with this,

 

[comicguy]

We have a school nurse that does absolutely nothing!!! If the child is not bleeding then there is not a problem. I sent a student to her for a really bad cough(really pronounced and excessive), plus you could see he was freezing(had a fever), she gave the student a mint and sent him back to me. I called her and she told me that it is confidential information and could not talk to me about the student(huh). I called the parent(I ahve a great working relationship with the mom) and explaine that her son was running a fever and had a really bad cough, she came and signed him out about 30 mins later, took him to the Drs. and he was out of school for the next 3 days.

Another incident with this so called nurse, a student hurt his hand in 1st period PE class, sent him to the nurse, he received a mint and was sent back to class. 4th period the students hand had swelled, sent him back to the nurse, received another mint and sent back to me. 7th period hand is turning black and blue, sent studnet back to nurse, guess what he got a nother mint and sent back to me. I was simply floored by her reactions or her inactions. I called the mon seeing the nurse didn't to inform her of the injury, the mom thanked me, brought him to the nurse rthe Drs. right after school, turns out he broke 2 bones in his hand. The mom was really ticked off at the school nurse.

It may seem that I am hard on school nurses but I am not. I have worked for 4 diff. districts (substituting, short term and long term) and I am now permanent and have had great relationships with all of them except this one that seems lazy or disinterested. She even closes her office from 12 -1 for lunch, heaven forbid if there is a real emergency, I wonder if she would assist or say she is on her lunch

 

[Pigeon]

We have a school nurse that does absolutely nothing!!!

Now, that's not fair. It sounds like she has found a miracle cure--mints! Who knew?