Overzealous school nurse is killing my budget

[npmommie]

I feel your pain. My DS's bus driver was hassling me for sending him to school with a cough. He had it for 3 weeks and I was not going to keep him home. She kept telling me to get him tested for strep because all the kids on the bus had gotten it. Finally, against my better judgement, I took him in. NO STREP, but I was out another $20 copay. Now I just ignore her.

you should tell the bus driver to recheck his medical degree because cough is not a symptom of strep throat

Only a Dr. can diagnose.

or a Nurse Practitioner, or a Physician Assistant

what about the nurse i had that refused to take 5 notes and had to have a huge confrence fight with the doctor..i was sitting there when she told him "aparently you don't know how it works and who I am" and his response that i loved..."aparently you don't know who i am let me tell you who i am "Dr. xxx MD...you are just a nurse and you are not going to tell me what to do or how to treat my patient and if you want a disability problem you just got one.." those are the nurses I think everyone is talking about..not the ones who know you have a sick child or are looking out for the others...

Love this doctor attitude. " just a nurse"
I saved many a doctor's behind when I worked in acute care
I don't like this nurse's attitude either, she should be working together with docs.

 

[flakypuff]

I keep thinking it should be a HIPAA violation, though. At the beginning of the year, my kids' school nurse had the BIGGEST problem with the fact that my daughter is special needs and incontinent. Kept saying (even the assistant principal, too) that kids had to be toilet trained to come to school, she can't do anything, and dd has to sit in the clinic till whenever I was able to come change her. Since she is incontinent, this would happen several times a week. After a LOT of running around and phone calls (including to the special ed headquarters locally) we were able to come to an agreement that dd was allowed to change her own accidents. It was a HUGEEE battle to get to that point. She has a medical form on file, saying she has brain damage and she is and will be incontinent, and the nurse and assistant principal insist even with the medical form there isn't much they can do. I keep saying..What the heck??? If she had a dang colostomy bag you would have to change it, so why can't you change an accident? They say it's different. Telling me that my dd is in regular education so it's different. They claim they are working with me the best they can. They even insisted on calling my daughter's doc TWICE because they said that we aren't being helpful enough in "fixing the problem". She is incontinent, it's not like we are doing that on purpose!!! Most 7 year olds don't CHOOSE to be incontinent..seriously..get OOFFFF your high horse! They even told me that it was MY fault and I CHOSE to leave my daughter in poopy pants all day in the clinic, since it was MY choice not to get there faster to change her (never mind she always has clothes/wipes/new undies there!)

That could be why the school hates me and calls me for fake diagnoses of pinkeye. I am also the OP of this thread. I hate my elementary school's admin.

 

[npmommie]

I keep thinking it should be a HIPAA violation, though. At the beginning of the year, my kids' school nurse had the BIGGEST problem with the fact that my daughter is special needs and incontinent. Kept saying (even the assistant principal, too) that kids had to be toilet trained to come to school, she can't do anything, and dd has to sit in the clinic till whenever I was able to come change her. Since she is incontinent, this would happen several times a week. After a LOT of running around and phone calls (including to the special ed headquarters locally) we were able to come to an agreement that dd was allowed to change her own accidents. It was a HUGEEE battle to get to that point. She has a medical form on file, saying she has brain damage and she is and will be incontinent, and the nurse and assistant principal insist even with the medical form there isn't much they can do. I keep saying..What the heck??? If she had a dang colostomy bag you would have to change it, so why can't you change an accident? They say it's different. Telling me that my dd is in regular education so it's different. They claim they are working with me the best they can. They even insisted on calling my daughter's doc TWICE because they said that we aren't being helpful enough in "fixing the problem". She is incontinent, it's not like we are doing that on purpose!!! Most 7 year olds don't CHOOSE to be incontinent..seriously..get OOFFFF your high horse! They even told me that it was MY fault and I CHOSE to leave my daughter in poopy pants all day in the clinic, since it was MY choice not to get there faster to change her (never mind she always has clothes/wipes/new undies there!)

That could be why the school hates me and calls me for fake diagnoses of pinkeye. I am also the OP of this thread. I hate my elementary school's admin.

sending you and your dd

 

[kbkids]

Thanks to the pp! Wow, as a "horrible" school nurse I feel very thanked for my hard work . School nurses are just that, nurses. We are not doctors, but we have hundreds of kids that we must be advocates for. If a student looks to have a contagious condition, I think it warrants being looked at. As for pink eye not contagious, hooey! Last week I "looked" at a kid with pink eye, the child was sent home (the horror). The next 7 days I spent with 3 out of 5 people in my family ending up with pink eye!!!! So, let's think of what that cost me as the school nurse, let alone all of the kids at the school who came down with it and their parents that had to miss work. I very seldom call parents, but when I do, it is nice to be treated as a professional. Kids are amazing little people that must be cared for by everyone. I had a parent refuse to take their little one home when I suspected he had chickenpox because it was "spider bites". Guess those spider bites were contagious. We ended up with over 20 kids home sick with chicken pox. Please be kind to everyone. We as professionals need to respect you as parents, and I ask that the parents respect us as the medical professionals we are.

Not every school nurse out there is bad. I'll go as far to say that most probably do an awesome job. But any nurse that questions a doctor's note isn't being the "medical professional" that you described. And they certainly aren't being respectful of the parent.

I've had some of the same issues in the past with my daughter. I took her to the doctor's office on a Friday afternoon because I suspected pink-eye. They checked and said, nope - allergies - wrote a doctor's note saying so. I sent the note to school on Monday because I knew I'd be getting a phone call. "That note is from Friday - we need something more current." I called her doctor who said she would fax over another note - nope not good enough. The doctor needed to look at her again. Drove 30 minutes both ways for the doctor to come to the front desk, hand me another note and comment that she'd be stopping off at the principal's office after turning that note in if she were me.

There's bad apples in every barrel, and if you don't act like a professional, you're not going to be regarded as one.

 

[gaelic grace]

Our school district doesn't have school nurses anymore- can't afford them. While I understand that some are probably hyper-vigilant and sometimes just plain wrong, I can't help but believe they are right most of the time. I am from a family of educators and our stories of the children being brought sick and/or being left sick far outweigh the times we might have been wrong about a diagnosis. My sister has a child who is habitually sick. The child spent three days on a mat on her floor with the flu. Yes, the school should have sent the child home but since the first day she was sick the mother failed to come get her the school's only option was to send her home in a police car. That would be a little traumatic for a 5 year old who already knows that Mommy wouldn't come get her. When the child was sent to school the subsequent days my sister and her direct supervisor decided that the child was receiving better care from them than she would at home. They created a "sick" area in the classroom and kept the child away from everyone else. They knew that they should call CPS but these kids have a tendency of vanishing once authorities are called and bottom line her classroom provides a safe and secure place for this child.

 

[CajunDixie]

It is not a HIPAA violation.

Based on what? Unless we know the whole conversation we don't know that. If the Doctor's office gave any medical information to the nurse without her name being on the release form the parent has on file for her child in the Dr's office then it is a violation. If the nurse provided any medical information on the child to the Dr's office without the parent having an authorization form on file then she too violated the law. But if the nurse simply called and asked Did Dr. Who write a note for Little Suzy on 04/22/08 in regards to her medical problems then the Dr's office could confirm a note was written but not what was written.

you may want to send that note to the doctors office...they are the ones who are responsible for keeping medical private since they hold the chart...

School nurses cannot violate HIPPA either. She cannot discuss any students medical problems with anyone other than the parents unless the parents have signed an authorization form. For example she cannot tell the art teacher that Suzy Q has/had xyz medical condition w/o first getting authorization from Suzy Q's parents.


In my case my son was in middle school and was sent home twice for having a cough. After the second time they insisted he be taken to the Dr. He had no other problems just a cough but only at the school. He was prescribed a med to see if it would clear up. A week later the school guidance (yes guidance not nurse) counselor left me a phone msg saying that he thought DS was diabetic or was having panic attacks...but he really thought it was diabetes. After hearing that I was beyond mad. Since when can a guidance counselor diagnosis a child with diabetes because they have a cough!!??!! So the next morning I kept DS home, called the school and the school secretary asked me if I was taking DS to the Dr to get something done about his diabetes. I ignored her question and asked for the school receptionist because that's who you had to talk to about absences....she asked the same thing. Unfortunately I am related to her(but can't stand her) but still it's none of her business!! I informed her he was not diabetic and that her quack of a counselor better shut his trap or I was going to the school board. She insisted he had experience in knowing what was wrong with the students because he's seen it before. Ohh and the school nurse...they never told her about any of this! I took DS to the Dr yet again and she said possibly he could have a problem with something in the school causing allergies or slight asthma. When I mentioned the diabetes she was mad. She called her nurse in and had her write a note to the school saying DS was not a diabetic, he had a cough that was not contagious, did not need to return to her office and he was cleared to attend school. She told me if they didn't stop sending DS home to call her and she'd personally call the school and put a stop to the problem. Funny how the guidance counselor was not available the next morning to receive the Dr's note....nor did he ever return my calls.

Fast forward a few months.......Older DS had to write out a 4 year plan for high school classes at the HS. So there's this guy walking around helping everyone......everyone but us. I was a lil miffed and asked DS why the guy never came over to help him. Well, seems that the "guy" was the guidance counselor from the middle school and he knew that the boys were brothers so he avoided us totally. When we turned in the form the lady asked if Mr. Jerk had checked it over and I told the truth...Nope, he's avoided us since we arrived and was of no help.

 

[jamesmommy]

Wow! I didn't know so many schools still had school nurses

I cannot remember ever having a school nurse in any school I attended (NC and SC). Never heard mention of one at my son's school either. I honestly thought it was one of those things that "used to be".

 

[Mkgaapril]

Based on what? Unless we know the whole conversation we don't know that. If the Doctor's office gave any medical information to the nurse without her name being on the release form the parent has on file for her child in the Dr's office then it is a violation. If the nurse provided any medical information on the child to the Dr's office without the parent having an authorization form on file then she too violated the law. But if the nurse simply called and asked Did Dr. Who write a note for Little Suzy on 04/22/08 in regards to her medical problems then the Dr's office could confirm a note was written but not what was written.



School nurses cannot violate HIPPA either. She cannot discuss any students medical problems with anyone other than the parents unless the parents have signed an authorization form. For example she cannot tell the art teacher that Suzy Q has/had xyz medical condition w/o first getting authorization from Suzy Q's parents.


In my case my son was in middle school and was sent home twice for having a cough. After the second time they insisted he be taken to the Dr. He had no other problems just a cough but only at the school. He was prescribed a med to see if it would clear up. A week later the school guidance (yes guidance not nurse) counselor left me a phone msg saying that he thought DS was diabetic or was having panic attacks...but he really thought it was diabetes. After hearing that I was beyond mad. Since when can a guidance counselor diagnosis a child with diabetes because they have a cough!!??!! So the next morning I kept DS home, called the school and the school secretary asked me if I was taking DS to the Dr to get something done about his diabetes. I ignored her question and asked for the school receptionist because that's who you had to talk to about absences....she asked the same thing. Unfortunately I am related to her(but can't stand her) but still it's none of her business!! I informed her he was not diabetic and that her quack of a counselor better shut his trap or I was going to the school board. She insisted he had experience in knowing what was wrong with the students because he's seen it before. Ohh and the school nurse...they never told her about any of this! I took DS to the Dr yet again and she said possibly he could have a problem with something in the school causing allergies or slight asthma. When I mentioned the diabetes she was mad. She called her nurse in and had her write a note to the school saying DS was not a diabetic, he had a cough that was not contagious, did not need to return to her office and he was cleared to attend school. She told me if they didn't stop sending DS home to call her and she'd personally call the school and put a stop to the problem. Funny how the guidance counselor was not available the next morning to receive the Dr's note....nor did he ever return my calls.

Fast forward a few months.......Older DS had to write out a 4 year plan for high school classes at the HS. So there's this guy walking around helping everyone......everyone but us. I was a lil miffed and asked DS why the guy never came over to help him. Well, seems that the "guy" was the guidance counselor from the middle school and he knew that the boys were brothers so he avoided us totally. When we turned in the form the lady asked if Mr. Jerk had checked it over and I told the truth...Nope, he's avoided us since we arrived and was of no help.

don't get me wrong, i don't think the school should have released anything...i am just saying if the school called and the doctor confirmed where is the paper you signed giving permission for the doctor to open and read a file in his hands??? i would not be so quick as to let that go..I do think some of the schools abuse their powers, i have been dealing wih it over my son and his heart problems for years...i want them to be informed for medical treatment..the problem is they are to stupid to read what i take to them and try to bully me into treatment he can't have. if my doctor released anything other than what is written on a copy of a paper that has been written to the school i would hang them on a flag pole.

 

[IDoDis]

I keep thinking it should be a HIPAA violation, though. At the beginning of the year, my kids' school nurse had the BIGGEST problem with the fact that my daughter is special needs and incontinent. Kept saying (even the assistant principal, too) that kids had to be toilet trained to come to school, she can't do anything, and dd has to sit in the clinic till whenever I was able to come change her. Since she is incontinent, this would happen several times a week. After a LOT of running around and phone calls (including to the special ed headquarters locally) we were able to come to an agreement that dd was allowed to change her own accidents. It was a HUGEEE battle to get to that point. She has a medical form on file, saying she has brain damage and she is and will be incontinent, and the nurse and assistant principal insist even with the medical form there isn't much they can do. I keep saying..What the heck??? If she had a dang colostomy bag you would have to change it, so why can't you change an accident? They say it's different. Telling me that my dd is in regular education so it's different. They claim they are working with me the best they can. They even insisted on calling my daughter's doc TWICE because they said that we aren't being helpful enough in "fixing the problem". She is incontinent, it's not like we are doing that on purpose!!! Most 7 year olds don't CHOOSE to be incontinent..seriously..get OOFFFF your high horse! They even told me that it was MY fault and I CHOSE to leave my daughter in poopy pants all day in the clinic, since it was MY choice not to get there faster to change her (never mind she always has clothes/wipes/new undies there!)

That could be why the school hates me and calls me for fake diagnoses of pinkeye. I am also the OP of this thread. I hate my elementary school's admin.

OMG, do you ever have a lawsuit there! That is discrimination against someone with a disability to the Nth degree. You need to get them to write a 504 plan for your DD. It is her right under the law. Here's some info on it, and she WOULD qualify:
http://specialchildren.about.com/od/504s/f/504faq1.htm

If I were you, I'd be talking to a lawyer.

 

[dsanner106]

After several useless trips to the doctors office for notes and missed days of work, my wife, a nurse practicioner just went the office, whipped out her stethoscope, gave my daughter a checkup right there in the nurses office. She wrote a note and handed it to the now sheepish nurse and walked out. A priceless moment

Drew

 

[kbkids]

After several useless trips to the doctors office for notes and missed days of work, my wife, a nurse practicioner just went the office, whipped out her stethoscope, gave my daughter a checkup right there in the nurses office. She wrote a note and handed it to the now sheepish nurse and walked out. A priceless moment

Drew

Now that's funny

 

[npmommie]

After several useless trips to the doctors office for notes and missed days of work, my wife, a nurse practicioner just went the office, whipped out her stethoscope, gave my daughter a checkup right there in the nurses office. She wrote a note and handed it to the now sheepish nurse and walked out. A priceless moment

Drew

Love this!!! LOL

 

[kbkids]

By the way, in our school district, the school nurse does not have to be a licensed nurse. Anybody can apply for the job. I love our school district and think my kids are getting an awesome education, but this little loophole is ridiculous! The one we have now is a licensed nurse, and we've had a good year this year. The past three years, one had a GED and quit when she got a position as a bus driver, the other still works at the school as a teacher's assistant now. She said she was just doing that to get her foot in the door so she could eventually get a job as an assistant.

I myself have been handed the keys to the medicine cabinet when I was subbing for the copy girl in the office. Apparently, one of her duties is to cover the nurse's position when she goes to lunch. Talk about feeling inadequate - all I had to do that day, thank God, was dispense routine meds to some of the kids (took me forever because I triple checked what I was doing). But never again am I accepting that job. Heaven forbid something major had happened. I wouldn't have had a clue.

 

[barkley]

Not every school nurse out there is bad. I'll go as far to say that most probably do an awesome job. But any nurse that questions a doctor's note isn't being the "medical professional" that you described. And they certainly aren't being respectful of the parent.

I've had some of the same issues in the past with my daughter. I took her to the doctor's office on a Friday afternoon because I suspected pink-eye. They checked and said, nope - allergies - wrote a doctor's note saying so. I sent the note to school on Monday because I knew I'd be getting a phone call. "That note is from Friday - we need something more current." I called her doctor who said she would fax over another note - nope not good enough. The doctor needed to look at her again. Drove 30 minutes both ways for the doctor to come to the front desk, hand me another note and comment that she'd be stopping off at the principal's office after turning that note in if she were me.

There's bad apples in every barrel, and if you don't act like a professional, you're not going to be regarded as one.

we had a similar situation at one school our kids attended (private school)-they kept insisting that md notes from a friday or over the weekend were not recent enuf and insist on a re-check, or they would question the diagnosis and insist on a re-check...well, they finaly ticked off the wrong doctors (my dd's ped and another who had to see dd two mondays in a row after her ped had seen and cleared her the previous friday). our ped was the head pediatrician and founder of the biggest pediatric practice in town, the other doctor was the head fp/gp and their top administrator. they got royaly ticked off and decided they were going to send a message to the school in their own way they waited until that spring when the school traditionaly did registration for the following school year and required updated copies of every student's immunization records and the physical health reports to permit inclusion in fall athletics. the doctors instead of handing the info. to the parents told them they would just send them to the school themselves-and told the parents to note that on the registration materials. the school is sitting there with hundreds and hundreds of registration forms and applications and none of the supporting docs to file with them and are being told by hundreds and hundreds of parents that the doctors will mail them. school finaly calls the medical group where they are told that the doctors in the group have collectivly decided in support of the school's active policy to only accept 'recent' verifications from them, to hold off on signing and providing any of the required forms until the day before the first day of the next school year

school was royaly ticked, they did'nt want to pay staff to double file and they sure did'nt want to get thousands of forms all on one day that they were technicaly required to have on file before a student entered the school

when we moved, several years later, our pediatrician still refered to that school as 'that whack job school that does'nt trust doctors notes'.

 

[kimsuenew]

By the way, in our school district, the school nurse does not have to be a licensed nurse. Anybody can apply for the job. I love our school district and think my kids are getting an awesome education, but this little loophole is ridiculous! The one we have now is a licensed nurse, and we've had a good year this year. The past three years, one had a GED and quit when she got a position as a bus driver, the other still works at the school as a teacher's assistant now. She said she was just doing that to get her foot in the door so she could eventually get a job as an assistant.

I myself have been handed the keys to the medicine cabinet when I was subbing for the copy girl in the office. Apparently, one of her duties is to cover the nurse's position when she goes to lunch. Talk about feeling inadequate - all I had to do that day, thank God, was dispense routine meds to some of the kids (took me forever because I triple checked what I was doing). But never again am I accepting that job. Heaven forbid something major had happened. I wouldn't have had a clue.

WOW! At the "special needs" school I was an aide at for years (left recently to go back to school) our nurse must have a Master's! No degree? Ugh!

Now at the school my son attended from K-9, they did not have nurses in the HS or MS and only part-time in each of the two Elem. buildings, there was a part-time nurse (AM) at the k-2 building, and PM in the 3-4 building. DS had to take medication during the school day while in 9th grade, which they cannot keep on their person, so the secretary had to give him his pill every day!

These school budget cuts are something else, they affect everything!

 

[Mickeyluver37]

We have had the same issues with my DD. It annoys me to no end. They have sent her home several times this year for coughing. Our district recently changed to count 1/2 days against the kids as absences, and those are adding up. And the principal had the *nerve* to write on my DD's Honor Roll report card last week "GREAT JOB- but watch those absences!" Ugh, I'm not sure if I should let that one go or not.

 

[ajk912]

OMG, do you ever have a lawsuit there! That is discrimination against someone with a disability to the Nth degree. You need to get them to write a 504 plan for your DD. It is her right under the law. Here's some info on it, and she WOULD qualify:
http://specialchildren.about.com/od/504s/f/504faq1.htm

If I were you, I'd be talking to a lawyer.

Thank you, I am going to look into this. I did think about a lawyer at the beginning of the year when they weren't budging and having my daughter sit in the clinic for an hour a day (or whatever) till I could get her. I was livid, I did call the county special ed services, and of course they don't want to take sides- but it did show them that I wasn't going to let this go. Currently, I am ok with the current situation. They haven't called me to pick her up in about 3-4 months, they let her change herself in the clinic now as needed. I just make sure she always has ample supplies there. School is almost over now, and hopefully it's not a battle all over again in September. Thanks for the link- definitely going to bookmark that one!

 

[ajk912]

we had a similar situation at one school our kids attended (private school)-they kept insisting that md notes from a friday or over the weekend were not recent enuf and insist on a re-check, or they would question the diagnosis and insist on a re-check...well, they finaly ticked off the wrong doctors (my dd's ped and another who had to see dd two mondays in a row after her ped had seen and cleared her the previous friday). our ped was the head pediatrician and founder of the biggest pediatric practice in town, the other doctor was the head fp/gp and their top administrator. they got royaly ticked off and decided they were going to send a message to the school in their own way they waited until that spring when the school traditionaly did registration for the following school year and required updated copies of every student's immunization records and the physical health reports to permit inclusion in fall athletics. the doctors instead of handing the info. to the parents told them they would just send them to the school themselves-and told the parents to note that on the registration materials. the school is sitting there with hundreds and hundreds of registration forms and applications and none of the supporting docs to file with them and are being told by hundreds and hundreds of parents that the doctors will mail them. school finaly calls the medical group where they are told that the doctors in the group have collectivly decided in support of the school's active policy to only accept 'recent' verifications from them, to hold off on signing and providing any of the required forms until the day before the first day of the next school year

school was royaly ticked, they did'nt want to pay staff to double file and they sure did'nt want to get thousands of forms all on one day that they were technicaly required to have on file before a student entered the school

when we moved, several years later, our pediatrician still refered to that school as 'that whack job school that does'nt trust doctors notes'.

omg, this is soooooooooooo funny!!

 

[Miz Diz]

I can totally understand what OP is saying. I had this same problem with my daycare. I can understand that they have to protect the other kids from getting sick, but when it is the same thing - it's ridiculous. My daughter had constant runny nose and during the spring her eyes would goop up and they would insist I take her to the doctor when I would tell them it is just allergies. She was already going to the doctor once a month, anyway. So I would have to take her and the doctor would ask me why I was bringing her in because there is absolutely nothing wrong with her. I would tell him I just need a note saying there is absolutely nothing wrong with her to give to the daycare because they won't let her come back with out. He would just shake his head and give me the note. Yes - wasted time and wasted money.

 

[LorlovesStitch]

my 7 yo daughter got a bloody nose in school and was sent with another child to the nurse's office. The nurse was not in her office (apparently at lunch) so the girls walked back to the main office to say they needed help. The office people said that the nurse was out to lunch and my DD should just take some more tissues and go back to her class! The nurse never checked on my daughter and my daughter was the one who told me about this incident. Well, I couldn't help but notice that there was blood all down the front of her shirt!