overly sensitive?

[tink1978]

kay...this is long, but....just need a little advice

A few weeks ago, my husband and I had a discussion about doing Bible studies and marriage studies to help improve our marriage. We had this discussion following me finding pornography in the home (pornography has been an issue for him for a long time and I did not know until last year and there are many issues surrounding this). Anyway...we agreed to study together and talk about issues throughout the study to improve our marriage so that we don't avoid discussing things (which I am prone to do).

So, last night...we are doing our study and the question is "What can I do to better accept and appreciate my spouse?" I answered, "I may have to think on that a little. I feel like I accept you and that I appreciate you and I feel like I tell you those things. I will have to think deeper at what I am or am not doing." My husband got quiet and then wouldn't say anything (he also did not answer the question for himself). When I finally got him to tell me what was wrong, he said, "I don't know. Your answer was just defensive." I asked how it was defensive and stated that I needed to know so that I can change what I do. He stated that he doesn't feel that I accept and appreciate him. He stated that even though I tell him that I love him and appreciate him every day when he does something, I don't tell him enough. I got very upset at this statement and started crying. I explained to him that I was sorry that I didn't tell him enough and that I would try to do better. He didn't respond to me at all. I told him that I was bothered by him withdrawing and not talking to me about it. I again said I can't change things I don't know about. He then got angry and started questioning why we were even doing the studies if they were only going to bring up bad stuff and maybe we shouldn't even be doing it.

This upset me more. It made me feel stupid for suggesting to improve our marriage. It made me feel bad for disappointing him in some way. It made me feel that I can't do anything right.

Am I being overly sensitive and selfish about this? Am I being dumb? Am I wrong for what I said or did? I don't know anymore and I think I have processed it to death in my mind...I can't come up with the answer.

 

[N&B'smom]

Doing a Bible study together is a good thing but I'm thinking you may need an outside source...go to marriage counseling.

 

[lillygator]

did you outlaw all porn? maybe he feels by not accepting that aspect you are not accepting him.

 

[ols386]

I don't think you are being too sensitive. I think it sounded like he was trying to lay some kind of guilt on you, for whatever reason. I almost think that maybe he feels bad about himself and wants you to also feel bad about yourself.

And the appreciating your spouse works both way. He wants you to appreciate him, but does he also know that means that he needs to also show his appreciation for you?

 

[tink1978]

lilygator, yes...I told him it could no longer be in our house (my son found some of it early on). I can accept my husband for who he is and love him, but I don't have to accept a behavior that can be dangerous. We are working on this aspect of our marriage and I rarely get angry at him for it. I understand why he had used in the past (he started before we got married). I also understand that he may slip up (which he has and I have not gotten angry about it). We are making progress in that area.

 

[goofy!]

kay...this is long, but....just need a little advice

A few weeks ago, my husband and I had a discussion about doing Bible studies and marriage studies to help improve our marriage. We had this discussion following me finding pornography in the home (pornography has been an issue for him for a long time and I did not know until last year and there are many issues surrounding this). Anyway...we agreed to study together and talk about issues throughout the study to improve our marriage so that we don't avoid discussing things (which I am prone to do).

So, last night...we are doing our study and the question is "What can I do to better accept and appreciate my spouse?" I answered, "I may have to think on that a little. I feel like I accept you and that I appreciate you and I feel like I tell you those things. I will have to think deeper at what I am or am not doing." My husband got quiet and then wouldn't say anything (he also did not answer the question for himself). When I finally got him to tell me what was wrong, he said, "I don't know. Your answer was just defensive." I asked how it was defensive and stated that I needed to know so that I can change what I do. He stated that he doesn't feel that I accept and appreciate him. He stated that even though I tell him that I love him and appreciate him every day when he does something, I don't tell him enough. I got very upset at this statement and started crying. I explained to him that I was sorry that I didn't tell him enough and that I would try to do better. He didn't respond to me at all. I told him that I was bothered by him withdrawing and not talking to me about it. I again said I can't change things I don't know about. He then got angry and started questioning why we were even doing the studies if they were only going to bring up bad stuff and maybe we shouldn't even be doing it.

This upset me more. It made me feel stupid for suggesting to improve our marriage. It made me feel bad for disappointing him in some way. It made me feel that I can't do anything right.

Am I being overly sensitive and selfish about this? Am I being dumb? Am I wrong for what I said or did? I don't know anymore and I think I have processed it to death in my mind...I can't come up with the answer.

Is this self-directed counseling?

It sounds like perhaps you need the guidance of a professional, impartial counselor to help direct the questions and keep the focus of the session.

I can only see disaster for a couple whose marriage is already unsteady trying to self-counsel each other. There is too much potential for misunderstandings and saying things that might not be what you really mean in the heat of the emotion.

A professional counselor can help guide the couples without the strings of emotional involvement.

 

[tink1978]

I don't think you are being too sensitive. I think it sounded like he was trying to lay some kind of guilt on you, for whatever reason. I almost think that maybe he feels bad about himself and wants you to also feel bad about yourself.

And the appreciating your spouse works both way. He wants you to appreciate him, but does he also know that means that he needs to also show his appreciation for you?

I thought about this this morning. I know he feels bad about himself and things that he has done. I always listen and am there for him. I have never threatened to leave or anything and I won't do that. I love him a lot. I don't know that he wants me to feel bad. I truly think that he doesn't mean to do that, but when he realizes he has, he is too prideful to apologize and makes it about how he feels rather than listening to me.

As far as the appreciation, he does not tell me he appreciates me until I get upset about something and get my feelings hurt. I do a lot for our family (I work more hours and make more money, I clean the house, I take care of the kids, I pay the bills, etc). He does some of those things too, but only when I ask him to. I then have to thank him (which I do and I want to thank him), but when I do stuff, it seems expected, and he doesn't tell me he appreciates me. But, if I were to bring up how that makes me feel, he would tell me that I am being dumb and he isn't doing anything wrong.

So...part of what happened brings up those issues and events that I have pushed down and thought were gone, but weren't, but he doesn't want to admit his part in anything.

 

[goofy!]

lilygator, yes...I told him it could no longer be in our house (my son found some of it early on). I can accept my husband for who he is and love him, but I don't have to accept a behavior that can be dangerous. We are working on this aspect of our marriage and I rarely get angry at him for it. I understand why he had used in the past (he started before we got married). I also understand that he may slip up (which he has and I have not gotten angry about it). We are making progress in that area.

Are your and his definition of porn on the same page?

Some people think Playboy is ok, but not hardcore movies. Some people think the Victoria Secret catalog is soft porn.

FWIW - studies have shown that legal porn in moderation can actually be beneficial and healthy, not dangerous.

 

[stinkerbelle's mom]

My thoughts is your dh is thinking he's being "punished" for having porn especially since your studies are religion based. That his indiscrition is now a mark on his soul kind of thing. Or it could be that he thinks that it's more like homework stuff rather than natural feeling stuff -- like you have to stay together rather than want to stay together.

I would suggest you start lightly with improving your relationship with the basic stuff like spending more time together, date night, love notes, those kind of things.

After things start improving then move to the religious backed studies. This way he will feel it's about your relationship and not him being punished for his shortcomings (even though that probably wasn't your intention).

Best wishes to you both.

 

[tink1978]

Is this self-directed counseling?

It sounds like perhaps you need the guidance of a professional, impartial counselor to help direct the questions and keep the focus of the session.

I can only see disaster for a couple whose marriage is already unsteady trying to self-counsel each other. There is too much potential for misunderstandings and saying things that might not be what you really mean in the heat of the emotion.

A professional counselor can help guide the couples without the strings of emotional involvement.

No...it is not a counseling thing. It is a Bible study on what a Christian marriage is supposed to be. I have the tendency to talk about something and then leave it alone hoping it will disappear (but that never works, right?). I know he has some issues from the past and I have thought about having him go to counseling, but haven't done that yet.

 

[Teresa Pitman]

You know, when I read this, my thought was that your husband actually felt hurt by your answer. Obviously, I don't know either of you at all, but when I read this, my impression is that he is someone who needs a LOT of love and reassurance. (If you read the book about the "Five Love Languages" you'll see that some people just need to have more verbal expressions of love and appreciation more than others. It's not better, not worse, just that's what they need.) I think what he might have heard is "I'm already expressing love and appreciation, and that's all you're going to get." What he wanted to hear is something like "I love and appreciate you so much and I just can't say it enough, you amazing wonderful totally loveable person, I am going to tell you five million times a day."

The thing is, that when you say "I'm sorry I don't tell you enough, I'll try to do better," then it doesn't feel like it is given freely. It feels like when you tell a little kid to say "I'm sorry" and the kid says "sorry" but you KNOW he doesn't mean it. What he wants is for you to spontaneously tell him all these things - not because he's told you to, but because you want to.

I can't remember the name of the "five love languages" book off the top of my head (and I'm too lazy to go check the bookshelf) but it can really help you understand your partner.

Teresa

 

[tink1978]

Are your and his definition of porn on the same page?

Some people think Playboy is ok, but not hardcore movies. Some people think the Victoria Secret catalog is soft porn.

FWIW - studies have shown that legal porn in moderation can actually be beneficial and healthy, not dangerous.

It was hardcore porn DVD's and he had hundreds of them. Not my definition of moderation. And, he was not being intimate with me at all, he was only using the porn, so I think that is dangerous to our marriage. And the fact that our 10 year old son found them, it is dangerous to him as well.

 

[tink1978]

My thoughts is your dh is thinking he's being "punished" for having porn especially since your studies are religion based. That his indiscrition is now a mark on his soul kind of thing. Or it could be that he thinks that it's more like homework stuff rather than natural feeling stuff -- like you have to stay together rather than want to stay together.

I would suggest you start lightly with improving your relationship with the basic stuff like spending more time together, date night, love notes, those kind of things.

After things start improving then move to the religious backed studies. This way he will feel it's about your relationship and not him being punished for his shortcomings (even though that probably wasn't your intention).

Best wishes to you both.

Thanks....we already do all the rest of those things. Overall, our marriage is really, really good. Like 98% of the time. Only when one of us gets our feelings hurt do we have problems.

 

[goofy!]

It was hardcore porn DVD's and he had hundreds of them. Not my definition of moderation. And, he was not being intimate with me at all, he was only using the porn, so I think that is dangerous to our marriage. And the fact that our 10 year old son found them, it is dangerous to him as well.

That does sound like a problem and one that definitely needs the help of a professional, just like any kind of addiction.

I wouldn't try to tackle this myself. Look into professional counseling. If you want it to be religious based, your pastor should be able to help or at least recommend somebody.

 

[tink1978]

You know, when I read this, my thought was that your husband actually felt hurt by your answer. Obviously, I don't know either of you at all, but when I read this, my impression is that he is someone who needs a LOT of love and reassurance. (If you read the book about the "Five Love Languages" you'll see that some people just need to have more verbal expressions of love and appreciation more than others. It's not better, not worse, just that's what they need.) I think what he might have heard is "I'm already expressing love and appreciation, and that's all you're going to get." What he wanted to hear is something like "I love and appreciate you so much and I just can't say it enough, you amazing wonderful totally loveable person, I am going to tell you five million times a day."

The thing is, that when you say "I'm sorry I don't tell you enough, I'll try to do better," then it doesn't feel like it is given freely. It feels like when you tell a little kid to say "I'm sorry" and the kid says "sorry" but you KNOW he doesn't mean it. What he wants is for you to spontaneously tell him all these things - not because he's told you to, but because you want to.

I can't remember the name of the "five love languages" book off the top of my head (and I'm too lazy to go check the bookshelf) but it can really help you understand your partner.

Teresa

Thanks for that. I actually bought that book several months ago during a study we were doing at church where someone recommended it. When I talked to him about it, he said he wasn't going to look at it. I read it anyway. I truly was interested in what his love language was so that I could make sure that I was doing things that meant something to him, but I don't know what he is.

 

[lillygator]

I think posts 12 and 13 really contradict each other.

as another poster suggested, I think working to better your relationship is a start and that jumping to religious based studies may seem like a punishment. are you both on the same page as far as that goes?

 

[Pea-n-Me]

It seems to me that porn and bible study are such opposite ends of the spectrum...

If you really want to find a compromise in your marriage, I'd agree with the previous suggestion of marriage counseling.

 

[NMAmy]

But, if I were to bring up how that makes me feel, he would tell me that I am being dumb and he isn't doing anything wrong.

This just jumped out at me. It's never okay to call one's spouse dumb.

It sounds as though the two of you really need someone to mediate. Please consider couples counseling and don't try to do this on your own.

I hope things go well--I can tell how sad you are from your post.

 

[RadioNate]

It was hardcore porn DVD's and he had hundreds of them. Not my definition of moderation. And, he was not being intimate with me at all, he was only using the porn, so I think that is dangerous to our marriage. And the fact that our 10 year old son found them, it is dangerous to him as well.

Ok, I admit I was a little put off by the complete outlawing of "porn" and the Christian marriage bible studies but then I read this.

That's a problem. I was imagining your DS finding a few Playboys or whatever but you are right...this IS unacceptable.

In addition to a good marriage councilor, I suggest a good addiction therapist for your DH. Self directed Christian marriage bible study isn't going to fix this.

I will also 2nd the love languages book. I mentioned it in another thread and it has helped me understand the different perspectives my DH and I come from.

 

[goofy!]

Thanks....we already do all the rest of those things. Overall, our marriage is really, really good. Like 98% of the time. Only when one of us gets our feelings hurt do we have problems.

So, as long as nobody makes waves, everything is ok? That can be said for most marriages. A marriage is more defined by how one deals with the rough spots.

Also, does your husband have the same deep religious beliefs as you do? We had very dear relatives whose marriage broke up as she was deeply religious, he not so much. She insisted everything be religious based and could not nor would not understand his position that he did not want everything in his life based on religion. If he is not as deeply religious as you are (not saying he is or not as we don't know either of you), then I would agree with the others that trying to fix things with a bible course may not be the best solution.

But I agree with the above posters. For your own happiness, in any case, seek professional counseling.