Overbooking flights....

[dudspizza]

So, DW and I were watching Airline on A & E last night when a scene came up where they had overbooked the flight. Arguement ensued. All they could offer was compensation and a possible standy flight.

The agent commented that they have to overbook because if they did not do it, they would be flying with empty seats. She said people who do not show would get a "credit" for their flight and could use it within a year, hence, the airline is losing money with the empty seats on the plane.

My question, why not just make a NON refundable ticket exactly that. If someone does not show up, the airline gets their money for the seat and no one is put in the position of not being bumped. The seat would be empty, but would be PAID for.

Seems so simple, yet people are being stranded at the airport when they are counting on getting to their destination.

Duds

 

[kaytieeldr]

Because that's not Southwest's business plan. I agree with you, but doing it their way is what keeps costs down and customers coming back.
Remember, Southwest flies hundreds of legs every day (that's flight legs, not people legs - the latter probably numbers in the tens of thousands ) but what you see on Airline is just what's going on with three or four flights at a time, out of different airports, and possibly even on different days.

 

[Lewisc]

The system SW uses allows them to offer full credit if you change your flight. Overbooking allows them to offer reservations to passengers for a full flight. SW has it down to a science and very few people are involuntarily denied boarding.

Jet Blue has taken the approach you suggest. They rarely overbook and every seat has some type of penalty.

Most airlines offer a fully refundable fare, generally used by last minute business travelers. It makes sense to overbook, based on past data.

KEEP IN MIND the Airline show picks incidents for entertainment value. They're really not typical experiences.

 

[gw_lit]

I'm a statistics geek, but something interesting to look at is the Bureau of Transportation Statistics Air Travel Consumer Report. It is published monthly by the Department of Transportation and contains data for the larger airlines on bumps, mishandled baggage, late flights, etc.

Here's a link: http://airconsumer.ost.dot.gov/reports/atcr06.htm.

Southwest had only .69 involuntary denied boardings (i.e. bumps) for every 10,000 passengers emplaned (or 1 out of every 14,492 passengers) during all of 2005. The best two were jetBlue with 0.00 out of 10,000 and Independence Air (RIP) with 0.01 out of 10,000. The worst were ATA with 2.75 out of 10,000 and Continental with 1.92 out of 10,000.

As Lewisc stated, remember "Airline" shows incidents that are entertaining, you never see a segment on an airport with beautiful weather and every flight goes out on time and no one gets bumped... what fun would that be?

 

[kaytieeldr]

As Lewisc stated, remember "Airline" shows incidents that are entertaining, you never see a segment on an airport with beautiful weather and every flight goes out on time and no one gets bumped... what fun would that be?

You forgot the "and where everybody is sober and in the gate area when the flight is boarding" caveats

 

[grimley1968]

Another reason for overbooking (not that I'm in favor of it) and making sure there are no empty seats on the plane is just efficiency. It costs the airlines lots of money to fill up those jets with fuel, and flying with an empty seat, even one that's paid for, hurts their bottom line. Even if an empty seat is paid for, SWA's bottom line is helped by filling that seat at the last minute. That way, they get double-fare for that one seat, if the original seat holder doesn't show up, or cancel early enough to get a refund. Even so, GW lit's stats point out that involuntary boarding denial really doesn't happen very often. As much as I'm ethically opposed to overbooking, it looks like most airlines do a pretty good job of mitigating it.

 

[Lewisc]

Another reason for overbooking (not that I'm in favor of it) and making sure there are no empty seats on the plane is just efficiency. It costs the airlines lots of money to fill up those jets with fuel, and flying with an empty seat, even one that's paid for, hurts their bottom line. Even if an empty seat is paid for, SWA's bottom line is helped by filling that seat at the last minute. That way, they get double-fare for that one seat, if the original seat holder doesn't show up, or cancel early enough to get a refund. Even so, GW lit's stats point out that involuntary boarding denial really doesn't happen very often. As much as I'm ethically opposed to overbooking, it looks like most airlines do a pretty good job of mitigating it.

SW actually will give a full credit to everyone, even to the passenger that is a no show.

Overbooking also allows the airline to give reservations to passengers that otherwise couldn't get a reservation. It doesn't make sense to leave with empty seats and at the same time be turning down passengers that want to be on the flight.

There was an article, I think in the NY Times, that said airlines are doing a better job with controlling overbooking and that passengers who are actually looking for a bump are disappointed.

 

[dudspizza]

I guess my thoughts were not directed at SW, it was simply Airline that made me ponder them.

I still think that a paid seat is a paid seat. Don't refund money to someone if they don't show up, at least not for a good reason. No one should ever have to be told that they can't be put on the plane because it is overbooked. .69, 1.5, or 2.75 people per 10,000 is too many. No one should have to deal with that. What is not presented in the stats are the number of people accepting a voluntary bump.

As long as I check in early, get to the gate early, things will be fine. Jet Blue has the right idea, and they offer some pretty good fares on top of it.

Duds

 

[VacationDad]

You forgot the "and where everybody is sober and in the gate area when the flight is boarding" caveats

And where departures are not held up for an hour by a panicky first time flyer who doesn't speak English.

 

[Esmerelda]

The last time my boys and I flew Delta (summer of 03) we were going on a cruise with a connection in Atlanta. First off, our first plane was waay overbooked and they tried to get folks to voluntarily bump but finally had to resort to doing it themselves. Then that first leg was late getting into Atlanta...we had 10 minutes to make it to our connecting gate. We RAN thru the entire concourse trying desparately to get to our connection. When we arrived at the gate we were told to get to...it was completely empty. We assumed we missed the connection. I was NOT very happy and my oldest son was on the verge of an asthma attack due to running. We finally found a Delta employee that said "oh..that gate was changed to number blah blah blah..." We head down to that gate...there were gadzillions of folks waiting and the only overhead we heard was "we are extremely overbooked folks so we are looking for volunteers"...I don't think so homey. What a nightmare.

We made it too our destination that night at 2am...thank god we weren't boarding the cruise ship until the next day. On our flights home...we did get bumped off the plane in Cincy (Delta) and I was not happy but we made the best of it.

My experience before that with Delta was a confirmed flight at 9pm out of Orlando the night before that was cancelled 12 hrs later and no one called my cell phone to tell me. We were rebooked onto another flight...and we all 3 sat apart from each other on an L1011. My boys were 5 and 7 at the time....I was ticked. I really felt sorry for the other passengers.... I was glad no one was injured...lol

I have flown SWA, Airtran, American..Northwest...and US Air many times for vacations and business....and Delta was the only airline that this ever happened to me on. Its a consistant thing? Their customer service sucked....(for lack of a nicer term) I realize they all overbook but this airline seems to be the worst. I've had no issues with SWA in many many flights.

I hope you have a good trip regardless!
Esmerelda

 

[Goofy Minnesotan]

Actually all the airlines can oversell flights by 20% and consider it ok.