OT - School split class questions

[Mrs. M. Mouse]

dd 8 has been placed in a 4/5 split this year (she's in gr 4) and seeing as how this is our first time dealing with split classes we'd get some advise.

How do you make sure what your child is learning is what they need to be learning?
How do I make sure she doesn't get left behind? she's a fairly strong student in most subjects but struggles at math and science so I want to make sure she doesn't get looked over and passed on to the next grade when she's behind in the core subjects?

there is no opportunity to have her switched out of the class as the other grade 4 class has already 27 children. her class only has 22 kids combined so at least it's not as large...

any advise would be great!

 

[Louiepipbgeeco]

Don't worry split classes very common. More and more with the cap sizes in place. She will still be delivered the Grade 4 curriculum(or is supposed to be) in her Core subjects. As that is the teacher's responsibility.
Good luck. Don't worry it will be fine.

 

[cdnmickeylover]

My DS was in a split class for 1/2 and 2/3. (This was many, many years ago). The best advice that I can give is to talk to the teacher about how they are going to handle the class. I talked to his teacher and she was great at answering all my questions about it.

 

[BitsnBearsMom]

My ds did a split for gr 1 and it was just fine. The teacher will make sure they learn all they need to learn. Most strait grades are similar to splits anyway b/c you can have such a variation in the levels of the same age kids in the class - you have the kids that are behind, the kids that are average and the kids that are ahead. A good teacher will deal with this and make sure everyone gets to where they need to be!

 

[snickerboo]

If she has a good teacher, she should be fine. Be sure to articulate to the teacher, within the first few weeks, that your dd is weaker in math than the other core subjects and will need a little extra attention there, as well as informing him/her that you want to be contacted should they notice problems arising.

The common curriculum is on the Ministry of Education website by grade. It's a little overwhelming but, in my opinion, it is every parent's duty to read through it be aware of what their child should be learning in each grade. My dd was in a split class last year and they did get behind due to the split (especially math). Because I knew what she was missing, I was able to get on it with her at home. I found a good resource to be the Math Smart workbooks that they sell at Costco.

 

[Mrs. M. Mouse]

Thank you all for helping ease my worries on this one! I hope that once her teacher finally arrives (from spain) that all will go well. School started thursday and they started with a substitute as her teacher isn't coming until this weekend! She's in a Bilingual program spanish/english and loves it! has been in since kindergarden. baby dd 5 starts that same program next week!

 

[canadianjovigirl]

I get your initial concerns as that was me last year as my son was going into grade 5 (first year of middle school here) and was placed in a 5/6 split and i was concerned as he does stuggle with some subjects and was concerned it would be difficult for him academically and socially with the older kids....

His teacher did a wonderful job and he loved the class and did great....an added bonus for him was he also got to participate in the grade 6 field trips which he thought was totally cool

The teacher assured me at the beginning of the year that it would be a great placement for him as it was also a smaller class size and the kids in split classes had to be able to work on their own (so she could teach the other grade) and that pushed him to do so and he did well with it.........

 

[dollarmite]

I live in Australia so our school year is 3/4 over, but my DS 8 has also been in a 4/5 composite class this year. He is in grade 4 and is the youngest person in his grade, with his birthday being only a couple of weeks before the cut off (and physically he looks as though he should be in grade 2).

Most of the composite classes in our school are roughly 50/50 in terms of grade numbers, but this particular class is 19 grade 5s and 8 grade 4s. I think they were deliberately picked for a reason, but I can't bring myself to ask the teacher or principal that straight out, lol.

Last year DS was in a 2/3 split (50/50) and it was great. This year's class has been great too, as I feel DS has actually been challenged this year, and I am pleased to say that he has risen to that challenge exceedingly well.

My only concern was the age thing, as some of the kids could be up to 2 years older than him, but sofar as I can make out it hasn't really been an issue. Academically I had no qualms.

DS1 was in a 3/4 class in grade 3 and loved the fact that he could try the grade 4 work if he finished the grade 3 work early.

Really, a composite class is like any other - so long as the teacher is competent and the kids behave well it doesn't matter whether it's a straight or a composite class. I've seen some straight classes with incompetent teachers and/or lots of ratbag kids and I'd take a well organised composite class over that anyday!

 

[seashoreCM]

Do you really want DD in a plain 4'th grade as opposed to a mixed level 4/5 class?

Remember that, in a plain 4'th grade class, DD won't have the benefit of the higher grade level for her stronger subjects.

On the other hand, a kid should be removed from a grade level over his head upon request both by himself and his parents, or given special attention to get caught up with.

Ideally the kids should be put into grade levels, possibly different ones, for each subject so as to match abilities but I don't think any elementary schools have the kids switching classrooms after each subject as secondary school kids do.

Disney hints: http://www.cockam.com/disney.htm

 

[Mrs. M. Mouse]

Thanks all for the replies! I'm looking foreward to the teacher arriving and the kids getting into the routine. DD has always been fairly independant so I don't worry that she'll get behind that way but she knows what her weaknesses are so I hope she'll be able to speak up and ask for help when needed.

I do like the idea of her getting to get ahead with the grade 5 work too but then next year if she's in a non split class she may find herself bored lol...guess we'll have to cross that bridge when we come to it.

 

[mtmbyck]

Hmmmmm - surprised at these coments.

My immediate response is, it all depends on how good the teacher is. I have seen FIRST HAND that some teachers don't do splits well.

Here's the reality....and DD has had splits for 3 years (gr 1,2 and 3) and I believe suffered in reading and writing for it.

In a split, there will be times that the teacher works with the grade level, then assigns them something to work on, and proceeds to move over to the other grade level to do a lesson. So the first level that is supposed to be working on an assignment has to work together, lots of chatting and copying, and they really can't ask questions as the teacher is occupied teaching a lesson to the other grade. I HAVE SAT IN CLASS AND OBSERVED THIS! You can't tell me it is a better alternative to a straight grade class.

For a high acheiver, there's not an issue, but for a B/C student, it's no ideal at all! They simply don't get the same level of attention.

Splits are reality I know, but wherever possible, I would avoid them and certainly if your child needs a little help, you should meet and identify this with the teacher early in the year to asses if there is an alternative.

Please spare me the "bad parenting comments - that reading and writing should also be an at home excersie - I also have an A student". I am simply sharing my experience with splits.

 

[Debbie]

Hmmmmm - surprised at these comments.

My immediate response is, it all depends on how good the teacher is. I have seen FIRST HAND that some teachers don't do splits well.

Here's the reality....and DD has had splits for 3 years (gr 1,2 and 3) and I believe suffered in reading and writing for it.

In a split, there will be times that the teacher works with the grade level, then assigns them something to work on, and proceeds to move over to the other grade level to do a lesson. So the first level that is supposed to be working on an assignment has to work together, lots of chatting and copying, and they really can't ask questions as the teacher is occupied teaching a lesson to the other grade. I HAVE SAT IN CLASS AND OBSERVED THIS! You can't tell me it is a better alternative to a straight grade class.

For a high acheiver, there's not an issue, but for a B/C student, it's no ideal at all! They simply don't get the same level of attention.

Splits are reality I know, but wherever possible, I would avoid them and certainly if your child needs a little help, you should meet and identify this with the teacher early in the year to asses if there is an alternative.

Please spare me the "bad parenting comments - that reading and writing should also be an at home excersie - I also have an A student". I am simply sharing my experience with splits.

You are right when you say that the teacher is the one that will make a difference in a child's educational life.

I'm surprised, though, that you say that your daughter suffered in reading and writing because of the split. Nowadays, in Ontario, students are grouped, not by their grade level in reading/writing, but by their ability level. Benchmarks tests are completed in the fall (some boards will use a Diagnostic Reading Assessment), and then students are taught guided reading at their instructional level. The groupings will usually give the weaker students more attention, while the higher achieving students would be seen a little less often in a guided reading group. I actually sit and conference individually with students for both reading and writing.

snickerboo is right-the curriculum is overwhelming (and Smart books at Costco are a great investment if you have a struggling student) and

BitsnBearsMom is right on the money when she said

Most straight grades are similar to splits anyway b/c you can have such a variation in the levels of the same age kids in the class - you have the kids that are behind, the kids that are average and the kids that are ahead. A good teacher will deal with this and make sure everyone gets to where they need to be!

Teaching sure isn't the same as it was when we went to school....or even the same as when I started many moons ago. It is active, fun, and makes use of every second of the day, and I wouldn't give it up!

 

[Tiger926]

Great comments by the teachers and the parents!

Just a few comments to add as a Spec ED highschool teacher...

It seems that some parents are confusing what splits are. As mentioned, we are big into differentiated instruction (always should have been), which means that as teachers we must teach to all of the differing brains in our classrooms; therefore, if teachers are doing this, splits are not an issue at all. As Debbie mentioned (great post, by the way!), kids should be grouped by ability level, and not strictly by grade level. Most schools spend many hours in making class lists specifically for this reason.

As also mentioned, it's basically all at the mercy of the teacher. The classroom teacher is the most important piece of the puzzle, so many of you are right when you say that some teachers don't teach splits very well, and this is detrimental to the kids. This is where you as a parent need to be involved on a daily basis with checking on your childs' homework and communicating with the teacher - any problems or concerns must be nipped in the bud, so child doesn't fall behind. If there are major problems, a meeting with the principal needs to be scheduled.

The educational system these days is vastly different - in the 10 years since I've been teaching, we've had several curriculum and philosophy changes. The curriculum, for the most part, is challenging for many kids as most kids are average, yet much of the curriculum is above average. Here lies the disconnect...

As an aside, I highly recommend the educational workbooks from Costco as well. They are designed and written by teachers, and follow the Ontario Curriculum. I actually use them as supplemental resources for my Spec ED students.

Good luck to all this coming school year! Tiger

 

[Tiger926]

Do you really want DD in a plain 4'th grade as opposed to a mixed level 4/5 class?

Remember that, in a plain 4'th grade class, DD won't have the benefit of the higher grade level for her stronger subjects.

On the other hand, a kid should be removed from a grade level over his head upon request both by himself and his parents, or given special attention to get caught up with.

Ideally the kids should be put into grade levels, possibly different ones, for each subject so as to match abilities but I don't think any elementary schools have the kids switching classrooms after each subject as secondary school kids do.
Disney hints: http://www.cockam.com/disney.htm

Just wanted to address this - many elementary schools do have kids switching classes like in secondary. It's called rotary - it used to be very popular in my city, so for instance, students would have many different teachers as subjects were grouped. You could have different teachers for music, language, social sciences, math/science, Language Arts and gym. I teach in the Catholic system, and so your homeroom teacher would teach religion and family life, as well as some of the courses listed above.

HTH, Tiger

 

[mkmommy]

One thing about split classes that no one has mentioned is the social aspect.

My oldest will always be in a split class (unless we move, or till grade 7) there are only 14 grade 3 kids in the whole school and I have really noticed that there is a real social seperation of the grades within the split class. I was talking to a parent of a little girl who did really well in different school last year, and the teacher told the parents of this class that they covered so much because the group of kids worked so well together, and I can see this never happening in a split class. My daughter is in a split 3/4 this year and not looking forward to it, as the grade 4 kids have a different section of the playgound than the grade 3, so socially grade 4 kids will play alone and the grade 3 kids will play in their own section.


My daughters are strong students so the split classes have not hurt them, but it you have a shy child I think it would be hard.

 

[Tiger926]

One thing about split classes that no one has mentioned is the social aspect.

My oldest will always be in a split class (unless we move, or till grade 7) there are only 14 grade 3 kids in the whole school and I have really noticed that there is a real social seperation of the grades within the split class. I was talking to a parent of a little girl who did really well in different school last year, and the teacher told the parents of this class that they covered so much because the group of kids worked so well together, and I can see this never happening in a split class. My daughter is in a split 3/4 this year and not looking forward to it, as the grade 4 kids have a different section of the playgound than the grade 3, so socially grade 4 kids will play alone and the grade 3 kids will play in their own section.


My daughters are strong students so the split classes have not hurt them, but it you have a shy child I think it would be hard.

There might be some truth to this, but so much depends upon the students and their peers. I was always in split classes as I was supposed to be skipped, but parents chose not to because I was already 1 year younger than everyone else, so I then would have been 2 years younger. I socialized with some of the other kids, but not many as many of them struggled with behaviour/learning challenges, and so many of them were 2 years ahead of me, even though they were only 1 grade level in school (many of them had failed grades). My point is that it depends upon how the school has set up the split levels. I see this happening in all straight grades as well, as so much depends upon the childrens' personalities.

My kids go to private Montessori school, and it functions on multi age level classrooms. My daughter graduated to Casa early as she too is very bright, and so she was 2.5 years old in class with 6 year olds, and there were no issues at all. So much of this depends upon the classroom teacher, and how the kids view their peers. Montessori children are used to this as it's a huge part of the Montessori philosophy, so it works well. As a mainstream school teacher, I have seen issues as you mention though because it's not of the norm - mainstream schools force kids into grade levels, so splits can be an issue here, but so too can regular straight classrooms. I have seen it in both kinds of classrooms. Splits can be a problem in some cases, especially in higher grades, as some of my elementary school teacher friends have told me.

As with any school situation, socialization is an issue, but so much depends upon the child, the classroom teacher, and their peers.

Good luck to all, Tiger

 

[Cdn Gal]

I just happen to be teaching a split 4/5 class this year. If your daughter is weak in math, buy JUMP at home math workbooks at Costco. The mathsmart books are OK for strong students, but if she is weak, she will need more steps to grasp the concept. JUMP is fantastic. I highly recommend the program. Also, ask your teacher that your daughter be encouraged to use manipulatives when doing math- it builds more connections in her Long Term Memory. It also forces the kids to make sense of the math. I was taught the 'kill and drill' method. Yes I can plug in the numbers and get the right answers, but I have no idea as to what it really means. She'll need a balanced approach- JUMP and manipulatives. The big push in grade 4is times tables. Get some CD's and play them in the car so she can learn the songs through music.
The only time where the teacher won't be with the grade level class is for social studies and science. For us that is 100 minutes a week. The rest of the time the kids should be working in groups, in all the different subject areas. Talk to the teacher, but usually if she is in the lower grade- and they have done the class lists properly- it means that she is a good student and has a good work ethic. Good luck, I'm sure she'll do fine.

 

[Mrs. M. Mouse]

I just happen to be teaching a split 4/5 class this year. If your daughter is weak in math, buy JUMP at home math workbooks at Costco. The mathsmart books are OK for strong students, but if she is weak, she will need more steps to grasp the concept. JUMP is fantastic. I highly recommend the program. Also, ask your teacher that your daughter be encouraged to use manipulatives when doing math- it builds more connections in her Long Term Memory. It also forces the kids to make sense of the math. I was taught the 'kill and drill' method. Yes I can plug in the numbers and get the right answers, but I have no idea as to what it really means. She'll need a balanced approach- JUMP and manipulatives. The big push in grade 4is times tables. Get some CD's and play them in the car so she can learn the songs through music.
The only time where the teacher won't be with the grade level class is for social studies and science. For us that is 100 minutes a week. The rest of the time the kids should be working in groups, in all the different subject areas. Talk to the teacher, but usually if she is in the lower grade- and they have done the class lists properly- it means that she is a good student and has a good work ethic. Good luck, I'm sure she'll do fine.

Thank you for the tip! I'm heading to costco this weekend sometime so I will keep my eye out for the Jump math books. I hope they will help her. We've been back at school now since aug 27 and she's enjoying her class. Her teacher has had split classes before so I think this will make it easier as she knows what she's doing. (I was worried she was new to the split too!)

Dd seems to be doing okay in the beginning stages of the math but it's just mostly review for now. I'm hoping she continues. We have parent teacher interviews in 2 weeks and I will bring up my concerns with the teacher at that time.

Thank you all for your suggestions and advice! I love hearing the stories of all your children going through split classes too!

Allie

 

[mousy_in_canada]

Thank you for the tip! I'm heading to costco this weekend sometime so I will keep my eye out for the Jump math books. I hope they will help her. We've been back at school now since aug 27 and she's enjoying her class. Her teacher has had split classes before so I think this will make it easier as she knows what she's doing. (I was worried she was new to the split too!)

Dd seems to be doing okay in the beginning stages of the math but it's just mostly review for now. I'm hoping she continues. We have parent teacher interviews in 2 weeks and I will bring up my concerns with the teacher at that time.

Thank you all for your suggestions and advice! I love hearing the stories of all your children going through split classes too!

Allie

I have been homeschooling for a long time and we use JUMP math as well, you can get it at Amazon.ca and also you can get them at the University of Toronto Web site.
My Daughters are heading off to School this year and the youngest is in a split 2/3 class and she is going in grade 3 so this discussion has been interesting for me to read since I am new to the school life. There is a total of 15 students in her class so I hope she will do well with a smaller class. The whole school only has 73 students in it so I think it will be a nice transition to school life.