OT - Rumor alert - IPHONE/VZW announcement June 28th

[zulemara]

Verizon and AT&T use different cellular technology. The iPhone that exists today will not work on Verizon (whether or not they would sell you one without an AT&T contract). Unlocked or not, it makes no difference.

For the iPhone to work on Verizon, they would need to make a version of it that supports CDMA or a version with both GSM and CDMA technology. It's anyone's guess as to whether or not Apple will do/is doing this. Pretty much the rest of the world uses GSM, albeit with some differences in bands, so the current iPhone works everywhere. If they make a CDMA version, it would be essentially just for Verizon (and maybe Sprint).

That's why I said in my previous post that going to T-Mobile makes more sense. T-Mobile is GSM like AT&T. It's currently possible to unlock an iPhone to work with T-Mobile. They do use different 3G bands, so you won't get 3G data speeds on T-Mobile, but everything else will work.

I read an article that Apple is making exactly that...an iphone that is both GSM and CMDA compatible. I'll try to find the link, but it's 6am, I worked for 10.5 hrs, and I'm exhausted.

 

[sarahsar]

I read an article that Apple is making exactly that...an iphone that is both GSM and CMDA compatible. I'll try to find the link, but it's 6am, I worked for 10.5 hrs, and I'm exhausted.

I have seen that particular rumor also. The problem is that all of these things are exactly that - rumors. It's certainly possible that they could make a GSM/CDMA iPhone. A lot of people would like that. But whether they actually are or not is anyone's guess. There are entire websites and forums devoted to these rumors (MacRumors is a good one for Apple lovers. They have a lot of other good info too). It is impressive the lengths they go to to find out stuff like this, but a lot is based on things like a random patent application Apple has submitted, when they submit hundreds, many of which never see the light of day. I have seen rumors about them hiring CDMA engineers, but that could mean it's something they are researching and not yet apply to a realized product (or - *rumor alert* - maybe the tablet will be on Verizon?)

I think a GSM/CDMA iPhone would be great for the consumer, but I don't think the cell companies would be keen on it, whether it's AT&T or Verizon. They want it to be as difficult as possible for people to leave them. Look at Verizon raising its early termination fee to $350 for smartphones. That's a crazy amount of money (that they are being forced to defend to the FCC). They don't want people to be able to jump ship without making it very difficult for them.

 

[k5jm]

I thought a lot of them were using microwave for backhaul, at least where the towers are close enough

Typically those Microwave radios are unlicensed, 5ghz Radios that are extending "the network" from a Donor site where the T-1's or higher access speed is landed. It really depends on the terrain and how much decent copper is available to the site. Several of my fellow "radio geeks" install those microwave systems on sites to temporarily add "the network" until the final network is installed. Typical install and turn up of a T1 can be 2 weeks to 3 months depending on where the site is located.

 

[chirurgeon]

Typically those Microwave radios are unlicensed, 5ghz Radios that are extending "the network" from a Donor site where the T-1's or higher access speed is landed. It really depends on the terrain and how much decent copper is available to the site. Several of my fellow "radio geeks" install those microwave systems on sites to temporarily add "the network" until the final network is installed. Typical install and turn up of a T1 can be 2 weeks to 3 months depending on where the site is located.

And if a new site has to be actually BUILT? That can take a LONG time.

Kim

 

[yitbos96bb]

I'm stuck on contract, so I won't be switching... but it would be great news for me if the contract isn't extended. AT and T will surely lose some business and their overextended network should start performing better. Of course, ATT could offer the moon for exclusivity as well... and the original reason it ended up on ATT was the refusual of the other cell companies to kow tow to apple's wishes.

 

[yitbos96bb]

The iPhone will be coming to Verizon next year. I'm not sure if the announcement will be in January as that will be the unavailing of the iSlate (or whatever the actual names ends up being).

I doubt it will be in Jan... Jobs knows how to maximize his press.

Plus, they have to create a whole new phone... remember, Verizon's network uses a different protocol than ATT.

And its not a done deal. Apple could save exclusivity with a lucrative offer. I don't think it will happen, but don't buy the phone before its sold.

That being said, I'm guessing it will be available on Sprint, T-Mobile and Verizon and ATT by the end of 2010 (I don't think ATT will pay enough to keep it exclusive), followed by pre-paid carriers the next year.

The other possibility is the rumored iphone Nano as a work around. Doubtful, but...

 

[yitbos96bb]

I was just reading a technical article the other day, basic synopsis was that if lot of people buy an iphone on VZW it's doubtful their network will be able to handle it. The iphone is the cause of a lot of ATT's problems

Maybe... but the other possible position is that if people leave ATT for the iphone on a different carrier, it will ease up the ATT network and not enough people will be concentrated on one carrier to cause the shortcomings seen now by the Iphone on ATT.

 

[yitbos96bb]

DH just got the Droid. He switched from TMobile to Verizon. He was showing it to someone who is of the gotta rush out and get the best out there mentality and loves his IPhone. Well apparently this guy was amazed at the Droid and all that you could do with it. He said it was better than the IPhone. So, if you are thinking of the Droid I would still look into it.

TO each their own, but I totally disagree with the co-worker. The Droid is good... better than I expected, but it doesn't touch the iphone in any category, except that it doesn't force one to use ATT.

 

[yitbos96bb]

Boy I'd be scared of the battery life of a GSM/CDMA Iphone.... I can't imagine it would be good.

I have seen that particular rumor also. The problem is that all of these things are exactly that - rumors. It's certainly possible that they could make a GSM/CDMA iPhone. A lot of people would like that. But whether they actually are or not is anyone's guess. There are entire websites and forums devoted to these rumors (MacRumors is a good one for Apple lovers. They have a lot of other good info too). It is impressive the lengths they go to to find out stuff like this, but a lot is based on things like a random patent application Apple has submitted, when they submit hundreds, many of which never see the light of day. I have seen rumors about them hiring CDMA engineers, but that could mean it's something they are researching and not yet apply to a realized product (or - *rumor alert* - maybe the tablet will be on Verizon?)

I think a GSM/CDMA iPhone would be great for the consumer, but I don't think the cell companies would be keen on it, whether it's AT&T or Verizon. They want it to be as difficult as possible for people to leave them. Look at Verizon raising its early termination fee to $350 for smartphones. That's a crazy amount of money (that they are being forced to defend to the FCC). They don't want people to be able to jump ship without making it very difficult for them.

 

[FireDancer]

TO each their own, but I totally disagree with the co-worker. The Droid is good... better than I expected, but it doesn't touch the iphone in any category, except that it doesn't force one to use ATT.

You also forgot openness. The Droid is open to apps that don't have to be approved by anyone, and that is important to some people (like me).

I doubt it will be in Jan... Jobs knows how to maximize his press.

Plus, they have to create a whole new phone... remember, Verizon's network uses a different protocol than ATT.

And its not a done deal. Apple could save exclusivity with a lucrative offer. I don't think it will happen, but don't buy the phone before its sold.

That being said, I'm guessing it will be available on Sprint, T-Mobile and Verizon and ATT by the end of 2010 (I don't think ATT will pay enough to keep it exclusive), followed by pre-paid carriers the next year.

The other possibility is the rumored iphone Nano as a work around. Doubtful, but...

Actually there is very little that has to be done to make the iPhone CDMA compatible. I was listening to an interview with one of the Android developers talking about making the Android OS work on CDMA and he said it was very simple. It is just another protocol that has to be added to the stack.

The only thing Apple has to do that Google didn't was also add a CDMA chip to the phone but that is also easy as Qualcomm makes a dual chip now.

It would be really nice is the Verizon/Sprint version of the phone included the LTE protocol but I don't think Apple will do it. It will give them the ability to force their users who want the LTE connectivity to buy a new phone in another year instead of have the one they buy this year be LTE ready. From a customer standpoint that would be greedy as LTE chips are already available.

 

[disneyscuba]

Hi Everyone,

Here is a link to a article with AT&T Mobility CEO Ralph de la Vega that has a little light on the Iphone Leaving AT&T.

http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9139768/AT_T_exec_implies_iPhone_exclusivity_in_U.S._to_end

Later,

John

 

[TangaroaTiki]

I want an iphone with Verizon as well!!!!!!

 

[sarahsar]

You also forgot openness. The Droid is open to apps that don't have to be approved by anyone, and that is important to some people (like me).

There is no question that there are issues with the App Store approval process, but I can't help but find it ironic that Verizon is suddenly the champion of "openness." In the past, they have been notorious for crippling phones, not letting you use ringtones that you didn't buy from them, disabling wifi on Blackberries, messing with search engines, etc. That always turned me off about Verizon.

Actually there is very little that has to be done to make the iPhone CDMA compatible. I was listening to an interview with one of the Android developers talking about making the Android OS work on CDMA and he said it was very simple. It is just another protocol that has to be added to the stack.

The only thing Apple has to do that Google didn't was also add a CDMA chip to the phone but that is also easy as Qualcomm makes a dual chip now.

Software wise I'm sure it's not a big deal, but it is a matter of whether or not they want to add the chip or not to the hardware. I can't see them doing it just to do it - they would have to have some deal in the works first with a CDMA company to make it worth their while.

 

[k5jm]

Boy I'd be scared of the battery life of a GSM/CDMA Iphone.... I can't imagine it would be good.

There is all ready a quad-band World phone chip set in use today on blackberries allowing for cdma/gsm co-habitation.

 

[FireDancer]

There is no question that there are issues with the App Store approval process, but I can't help but find it ironic that Verizon is suddenly the champion of "openness." In the past, they have been notorious for crippling phones, not letting you use ringtones that you didn't buy from them, disabling wifi on Blackberries, messing with search engines, etc. That always turned me off about Verizon.

I think you misunderstood. I don't think Verizon is more open than AT&T. I think the Android platform is more open than the iPhone. Now, I realize this isn't an issue for everyone and that is fine. People have different criteria for choosing anything. For me the ability to do whatever I want with something I purchase is important. I don't want an app blocked because "it duplicates the function of iTunes". Who cares? If I don't like the way iTunes does something I want an alternative. I love Google Voice and don't want the Google Voice app blocked just because Apple or AT&T don't want me to use it. I am more than capable of vetting my own software and don't need it done.

Again, this is probably not an issue for the vast majority of consumers as evidenced by the number of units sold and I am not trying to convince anyone that they shouldn't purchase the phone for the reasons I don't. Just like when buying a car we all have different criteria for what we purchase (some want good gas mileage, some horsepower, some towing capacity) we all purchase everything with out own criteria.

 

[sarahsar]

I think you misunderstood. I don't think Verizon is more open than AT&T. I think the Android platform is more open than the iPhone. Now, I realize this isn't an issue for everyone and that is fine. People have different criteria for choosing anything. For me the ability to do whatever I want with something I purchase is important. I don't want an app blocked because "it duplicates the function of iTunes". Who cares? If I don't like the way iTunes does something I want an alternative. I love Google Voice and don't want the Google Voice app blocked just because Apple or AT&T don't want me to use it. I am more than capable of vetting my own software and don't need it done.

I think your criticisms of the App Store are completely valid. I do understand that the openness is really more an Android thing than a Verizon thing. The reason I mentioned it is that Verizon has been touting it as a feature in their Droid ads, and I find that completely ironic given their history. All of a sudden Verizon is presenting itself as the poster child for open platforms? Please. But I agree that Android has a very different approach than Apple does with the iPhone OS.

I think in some ways choosing an Apple/iPhone product is a deal with the devil. Despite the hype, the iPhone was not the first smartphone or the first device to do most (any?) of the things it does. I have used a lot of PDAs/smartphones, starting with the old Palm Pilots back in the day. Even those could do many of the things the current iPhone can do.

In my opinion, where the iPhone excels is the user interface. It makes many of those functions available and easy to use for regular people who don't want to spend their lives tweaking their cell phone. I'm a computer nerd and a phone nerd. I don't deny it. I was comfortable hacking the registry of my Windows Mobile phone to enable certain features, and even my Motorola Razr a few years ago with SEEM edits to get around different limitations. I can do those things, so I was very skeptical about the iPhone at first, since on paper it doesn't really do anything those other devices couldn't. But where it excels is not in what it does but in how it does it.

The trade-off, and the deal with the devil part, is that part of how Apple achieves that brilliant user experience is because they control it all, from start to finish, hardware and software. There aren't 15 different variations of the UI for different devices, there is no pre-loaded software selected by the carrier, none of that. Who knows for sure what went down in the negotiations where Verizon turned down the iPhone, but I'm sure part of it is that Verizon didn't want to relinquish control over certain key elements of the device. AT&T obviously gave in - there is no AT&T branding on the iPhone, none of the crapware they inflict on their other smartphones - only what Apple has allowed to be present (much like a Mac, which is blissfully free of the virus-like shareware that plagues many Windows computers).

It is not at all surprising to me that Apple exercises the same kind of control over the App Store that it does over other aspects of the iPhone. I don't think that is always for the good, and sometimes it is downright ridiculous. With the explosion of apps, it's going to be impossible for them to keep up with it (they certainly don't control all Mac software). I think there will have to be changes in the future, if for logistical reasons if nothing else. For right now, though, I accept those limitations because I love my iPhone so much. It just is far and away the best device of its kind that I have ever used. I could spend my time tweaking another device, but I'm actually really happy not to have to (I haven't even jailbroken it). Maybe I'm just at another phase in my life these days where I'd rather not spend the time.

As for the Droid, I have never used one, but I have heard a lot of good things. I can completely respect someone not wanting to deal with the control-freak approach that Apple uses. It certainly has its drawbacks (the Google Voice fiasco being a prime example). For me currently, I can live with the issues. But while I think they may change some things to be a little more flexible in the future, I doubt their corporate culture is likely to change significantly anytime soon.

 

[FireDancer]

sarahsar, that entire post I could have done myself. There is nothing inherently wrong with Apple's approach and model, it just isn't the one I want.

 

[sarahsar]

sarahsar, that entire post I could have done myself. There is nothing inherently wrong with Apple's approach and model, it just isn't the one I want.

Can't blame you for that! It definitely has its limitations.

I am glad that there are new devices and competitors springing up for Apple, with the Droid and others. It is only for the good that there is legitimate competition for the iPhone. Hopefully it will spur everyone to be a bit more innovative (unlike the stagnation we've seen lately with Windows Mobile). Plus, I just love gadgets and wouldn't mind trying some other things. I don't see myself giving up the iPhone anytime soon, but if something great comes along, I would consider checking it out!

 

[astrodrummergirl]

Doesn't TMobile already sell the iPhone in Europe?

T-Mobile is pretty much the only major network that isn't selling them.

 

[luke]

T-Mobile is pretty much the only major network that isn't selling them.

They do in Europe (Germany I think?) just not in the UK