OT: MH classroom, need help and/or advice...UPDATE post #1

[thelittlemermaid]

DD has Down Syndrome and is in kindergarten, well so to speak. She is in the MH classroom with other children like her and with behavorial children.

DD is very sweet and wouldn't hurt a fly, but since she has started this class she has been having temper tantrums, stomping her feet, hitting walls, hitting doors and one day when I told her she couldn't do something she turned around and started punching me in the stomach.

I don't know what to do. I hate to say it, but it has gotten to the point where I dread her coming home from school and dread saturday and sundays having her all day. I know she is not getting this stuff off her older brother cause he does not behave like this. She has to be getting this behavior off the other kids in her class. In this MH class there are kids from K, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th. I don't see how she is to learn anything in a classroom with so many age groups in it. Only thing she seems to be learning is bad behavior.

Is there anything I can do or am I stuck with her in this class for the rest of the year? I'm sorry, but I feel there should be separte classes for learning disabilites and behavorial children. My once sweet DD is now a walking time bomb just ready to go off. Her parent/teacher conference is thursday and I am going to bring this up with her teacher and see if she has noticed a change like I have.

Thanks for letting me get this off my chest.

**UPDATE**
Had DD's conference. I am not the only parent who is concearned about what is going on in this classroom. DD's teacher brought up the behavior of the other kids before I could ask her about it. She told me that she has been dealing with the older ones who have been "acting out". Since this has been happening the school now has it so all the kids are only together in the MH classroom for the first 30 minutes of the day. After that, depending on what day it is, the K-3rd grades are in the room together and then when they go to their "regular" classes, then the 4th and 5th graders are in there.
Something I didn't know before this conference was DD goes to her regular kindergarten classroom 3 days a week along with the other two little girls that are in the MH class.
Since they started this, I have noticed when she has come home this week, she hasn't been as bad as before.

I really like this school {DD is open enrolled} and didn't want to make any waves {but if I have to I will}, but it was nice to know that I wasn't the only parent worried about what was going on. And that the school is doing something about it without the parents throwing a HUGE stink to get results.

Thanks again to everyone!!!

 

[Michigan]

You are never stuck and always have the option to change. All you have to do is call a meeting to reopen her IEP. If you want her to be in "regular" ed classes with a one on one parpro then you can tell them that and they have to comply.

 

[SueM in MN]

That is a sore spot with me. There are some kids who should not mixed together. School people understand that mainstreaming a child with disabilities into a mainstream classroom provides peer models, but they don't seem to understand that putting a disruptive, violent student into a Special Ed classroom also provides a model for peer behavior. They seem to "sell" the kids with disabilities "short" and assume that they are not bright enough to pick up that negative behavior.

The same thing happened with my DD. She was partly mainstreamed with a para into regular education classes and partly in a Special Ed room in 2nd grade. She had been in that setting since Kindergarten and most of the kids were fairly similar; the most disruptive behavior was some throwing of papers when kids didn't want to do what they were asked (my DD was one who did that).
She suddenly started hitting us at home and there were complaints that she was hitting staff and other students. There were several more vulnerable kids in the class who could not move; they were concerned she might hit some of the more vulnerable kids.
I knew she had never seen any hitting at home and didn't watch any TV that would suggest that kind of behavior. I wondered what was happening in other places that would lead her to think hitting was OK. She didn't have enough language to tell me, so I started looking. The staff said that nothing in the classrooms had changed. At first they said she was hitting other students, but it turned out to be only one; was a girl with Down Syndrome she had been in classes with since Kindergarten. They wanted a behavior specialist to see my DD.
It turned out that the girl with Downs and my DD were in the same afterschool care right at school. When I went to pick up DD from day care, I could see why she was hitting that girl in terms of the behavior that girl had done/was doing that ticked my DD off (although that did not excuse the hitting or explain why she suddenly turned to hitting). The other girl was frequently doing things she thought were helpful, but my DD thought were intrusive. For example, my DD would get out several crayons; this girl would take all but one and put them away. DD wanted to get a drink of water and signed to ask me if she could before we left; this girl would start saying "no" and pulling on my DD's wheelchair when she tried to drive away to get her drink. Even my saying, "no, don't hold her wheelchair. I told her she could go get a drink" didn't matter, the other girl still tried to stop her. The daycare staff had said this girl had always tried to "mother" my DD, but had become more insistent and aggressive in her mothering lately. My DD had not hit her at after school care, but the staff realized they were annoying each other and tried to keep the 2 girls away from each other when they were getting on each others nerves.

I went to a meeting with the Behavior analyst and the school people. They said they could see no "reason/explanation" for her behavior and they wanted to institute a time out procedure for her.
I explained that we had noticed a pattern of when the hitting occurred (when she was asked to do something she didn't want to do and when she was prevented from doing something she wanted to do) and shared what the day care people had told me about her interactions with the other girl. I told them that we had started time out at home as soon as she had started hitting us (I had worked for over 2 years in a child and adolescent inpatient Psych behavior Mod program.) They did notice the other girl doing similar things in their classroom with DD (pushing or pulling her wheelchair, taking things she was using), but didn't see my DD might have a problem with that since the other girl had been doing this "forever." The Behavior Analyst agreed they "might" be looked at negatively by my DD. The staff still said nothing had changed in the classroom.

A few weeks later, I went to pick DD up early from school. She would have normally been in the regular classroom at that time, but had been pulled out so they could get her coat on/have her ready for me. When I got to the special ed classroom, I saw what had changed in the classroom that they did not consider a change. There was a cute little blond haired boy totally out of control in the classroom. He was swearing (words I didn't know, and having worked in Psych, I knew quite a few), hitting, throwing things (heavy things), kicking and screaming. Two adults could not control him.
I asked my DD's para when he had come to the classroom. It turned out to be about 2 weeks before my DD's hitting began. He was mainstreamed into Kindergarten most of the time, but came to Special Ed when he needed a quieter place or needed to be controlled. They didn't consider him a change to the classroom because he wasn't there all the time. And, the teacher said she could not see how his behavior could impact/provide a model for the other kids!!!!
They also didn't see that he was an especially "potent" model of how to get everyone's attention because of the severe nature of his behavior and the fact that the Special Ed kids only saw him when he was at his worst.

My DD was already in an appropriate setting. When I tried to get him removed bacause he was a negative influence and was not appropriate for the classs, I was told that was discriminatorybecause his behavior was causeed by his special needs (which he had an appropriate IEP for). I was also told that he was not a risk to my DD since "most of the time" when he was in the classroom, she wasn't and she could drive her wheelchair away from him.
I had pointed out that if they were worried about my DD maybe hitting one of the more vulnerable kids, what would happen if this boy threw a chair at them or kicked them while they were doing floor activites. Some of those parents finding out about his behavior was what finally got him out of the room. They were able to argue that his behavior interfered with their very vulnerable children's safety needs.

But, the fact remains that mixing violent behavior children with non-violent special ed kids is a very bad idea. DD is 20 now and we are still dealing with that negative behavior that she supposedly didn't pick up from that boy.

 

[HopperFan]

My son has Down Syndrome and is in his last year of school It goes by so fast !!

First I would like to say just one child coming into a class can be devastating for your child, I know from experience. One girl brought in his second year of high school (she did not belong in that classroom setting but her mother works for the State Bd of Ed) virtually ruined my son and he will be scarred for life. Her animal like behavior was devastating to him emotionally and I take total responsibility for not DEMANDING one of them be moved until the second year. I went to my IEP meeting, with them knowing in writing the only thing I was there to discuss was a change in classroom. DEMAND a proper placement for your child.

Second, I was told in NJ and again here in GA that there can only be a 3 year gap in age for the students put together in a special needs classroom. You are saying there is a five year gap. Totally inappropriate socially & academically, and from my understanding not legal. Find out and if true there, use it. We wouldn't put a typical kindergarten student in a room with 5th graders, why would you consider for special needs students who have more issues.

We have mixed classes here, but we do have a distinct division between the behavioral disorders and the others. Now some of the kids do have issues that come and go or need to be worked on in the developmentally disabled classrooms, but for those with behavior as their primary issue, they are worked with in their own classroom. I have observed some of these students and the only way to help them is such a rigid structure and additional adults, that the class must revolve around them for success. Mixing them is not good policy if you want success for all the students. I remember years ago when they were trying to combine them to reduce classrooms, I actually had a parent of a child classified BD come up to me and say "Fight this all the way, you do not want your child in a classroom with a child like mine." Wow.

 

[Tissa]

You definitely need to talk to her teacher and find out if they are having the same kind of problems you are having. I have a ds7 that's autistic and a ds10 that has cp and they have been in special ed classes since the age of 3. My boys have both had their behavior problems over the years and this is what finally works for us.
1. get a open line of communication with the teacher. If one of the boys starts acting up at home I call to have a meeting with the teacher to find out if anything else is going on at school. Also they both have a notebook they bring home every day and I want the teacher to write down how they were that day and if they had to go to the sad face chair(timeout). If they really had a bad day I call the teacher as soon as I see the note and we discuss what happened.
2. get to know the other classmates. I do this by going on field trips and trying to have lunch with my sons at least once a month. You can really get an idea of what's going on when you sit in the cafeteria and have lunch with them. My ds10 has had most of the same classmates for the last 7 years so if there is someone they don't get along with you can really have problems.
Finally I want to say hang in there and stay strong. Things will get better.
Oh and I can remember the days in the beginning that I would find myself about to cry knowing the weekend was coming. Now I look forward to spending time with them.

 

[BCV23]

I would ask for an alternate placement immediately. I would also personally keep her home until a more appropriate option is available. Call for a new IEP if you don't get a quick response.

There is no way children with developmental delays should be placed with children of normal intellgence with behavior problems. It makes me angry just thinking about it.

But I really would keep her home until it changes. She is probably more upset than you are with the classroom and acting out is the only way she can express herself.

Good luck.

 

[thelittlemermaid]

Thank you so much for the replies!!!

When I go to her parent/teacher conference on thursday I'll see what kind of answers I get from her teacher.

Right from the start when I was told that the only adults in the room would be the teacher and 2 aides, with one aide being with a little girl in a wheelchair, I should have seen the red flag right then.

Second, I was told in NJ and again here in GA that there can only be a 3 year gap in age for the students put together in a special needs classroom. You are saying there is a five year gap. Totally inappropriate socially & academically, and from my understanding not legal. Find out and if true there, use it. We wouldn't put a typical kindergarten student in a room with 5th graders, why would you consider for special needs students who have more issues.

I live in Ohio, could it be possiable it's the same for every state?
Do you know of anywhere were this is stated in black and white? That way if we do take this to an IEP meeting and mention it, we have proof in case they say there is no such thing?

Thanks again to everyone! I have no friends who have special needs kids and know I can always count on the friendly DISners for answers and/or help.

 

[SandrainNC]

I just read this and am so sorry this is happening to your daughter! I agree with everybody else. Call an immediate IEP meeting and get something changed. Go to www.wrightslaw.com and see if there is anything there about that age gap that HopperFan mentioned. If it is a federal law, it doesn't matter which state you are in. (At least that is what my advocacy book I am reading said). Could she be placed in regular Kindergarten class and be included instead of this placement in case there are no other contained classes to switch her to?

Boy, I dread my son starting kindergarten next year.

Sandra

 

[SueM in MN]

Here's a very good resource:
www.pacer.org
The PACER Center is based in Minnesota, but it is a national resource for Parent Advocacy Coalition for Educational Rights. They have various links to resources in each state.

 

[HopperFan]

Wrightslaw and Pacer are both good. Sign up for the Wrightslaw email news. I get Pacer in paper form, haven't checked to see if it is online.

Check this site for Ohio Special Education http://www.ohiolegalservices.org/OS...ex/1110000/1111300/1111306/index_html#1111306 and http://www.ode.state.oh.us/exceptio..._with_disabilities/pdf/Whose_IDEA_Is_This.pdf

This link is to the Ohio Special Education Standards. It appears that they have broken down the age span based on disability (pg 11 on) and it can range form 48-60 mos but since you are in a MH class, I would think the lower number would apply. The numbers sound very big. We don't have classes anywhere near that size here. I would hunt down the federal standards and see how they compare http://www.ode.state.oh.us/exceptio...bilities/operating_standards/New/33015109.pdf

 

[thelittlemermaid]

SandrainNC, SueM in MN, and HopperFan.....Thank you so much for the links!!!

HopperFan....I checked out the last link and found what you were talking about the age gap being 60 months. Bad thing is I have no clue to the ages of the older kids. They could be older then the 60 months if any of them were held back, but I'm sure the school would never tell their ages. Compared to my DD, these other kids are nothing but big bruts. I feel sorry for the little girl in the wheelchair and my DD cause if these other kids wanted to do damage, these two little girls would get seriously hurt.

Thanks again for all the support!!!

 

[Michigan]

I had forgot about this because it seems like so long ago but when my oldest DD was in 3rd grade there was a kid in the class that would pick things up including desks and throw them. They even put him in his own area with a one on one para but it didn't help. My DD came home with a note from the teacher who was trying to get this kid removed from her classroom against the principal's will and the note said this kid threw a desk towards my daughter. Before I got home from work my mother went to the school and told the principal if he threw anything at my DD and it hit her that she was going to sue the principal personally. Guess what the next day he was moved to a classroom by himself and the next week he was moved to a school out of the district for kids with behavior problems.

 

[boosmom96]

Hang in there thelittlemermaid!!!
My DD is almost 9 now, but when she was turning 3 our district wanted to put her in a special day class with primarily autistic children. My DD has cerebral palsy and is completely non-mobile with major startle issues. I observed the class for several hours and documented 1 boy who did nothing but go from one noisy, flashing toy to the next and turn them on. (This meant that there were always several going at once!) It made me jump every time so I know my DD would have been absolutely freaked out by this!! (Long story, but DD never did go to that program!!)
There are very definite rules about the "appropriate-ness" of the school setting. Your DD's setting is obviously not appropriate! I would go to your meeting on Thursday, but I would demand an interim placement because of the serious effects this is having on your DD. I cannot believe they are allowed to have K through 5th grades in one classroom!! This does not sound right. Take a look at the website some of the other posters have supplied. I'm familiar with most of them and they really should help. If nothing else, make sure and let your district know that you are very aware of your rights and up on all the silly "professional & legal lingo"! It really helps. I always bring my stack of legal books pertaining to IEP's to any meeting. Go through them and flag anything you think you may need. Watching administrators' faces fall when I quickly flip to a page in the books that disputes their claim is always great fun!!!
Good Luck!

 

[HopperFan]

Oh, boosmom made me remember something. At two schools (elementary & middle), the meetings that was very productive for us were when Dad came to the meeting in a suit and tie. After the first time that happened (and I didn't tell them he was coming in advance), they always had the principal in there. When someone higher up is there, the others behave differently and suddenly they can do things that they said they couldn't do before. Alittle power play can't hurt.

Now in high school I have a wonderful staff and have supported us through the most difficult couple years. But the one laugh we have is they are required to ask me if I want my parent rights read to me, and I always say "yes" even though I am joking. If they have to ask you there, maybe you let them go ahead and read it out loud. You may actually hear something that will help that when you are reading it doesn't click. Also puts them on the spot - they'll know you are concerned about your rights!

 

[bairdbeth]

As a Special Education Teacher I implore all parents to complain when inappropriate students are placed into your child's program. Unless parents complain, things remain status quo. I have a self-contained program with SDD, MID, MOID, and Autism students. We spend 3 1/2 hours with the regular kindergarten class. I have had my program totally disrupted by 1 new student several times over my 19 year career. I try to speak to the School Psychologists and higher ups, but usually to no avail. If a child's primary problem is behavior, then no matter what the intellect or disability, that child will not learn (nor will anyone else) until the behaviors are under control. While I have some background in BD, my program is not set up to meet those severe needs. Only 1 time did I get a student moved and that was because a parent expressed concern. If you have a concern, put it in writing to the teacher. That gives us more ammunition to get the child into a more approprite educational setting. It also allows us to then serve the students we should be serving. Sorry for the rant.

 

[SueM in MN]

Sorry for the rant.

No need to be sorry. Good reminder that sometimes the teachers have the same concerns as the parents, but the teachers' hands may be tied.

And to the OP; sounds like a positive outcome.