OT - Help with stubborn 3 year old!!

[WDWorBUST]

Please give me some insight before I beat my child (okay not really - but you all know how it feels). She is 3years and 5 months and has been potty trained since right before she turned 3. All of a sudden she is wetting her pants every day ("everyone has accidents" - something she heard from us while she was learning). And she just pooped her pants. What is the deal?? What do I do?? I really want to make her wear wet panties or some other punishment because I'm so frustrated with her (I don't think it's not being able to - but maybe I'm wrong - but I really don't think so). I could never do that though because I really think it's wrong.....but I don't know WHAT to do at this point. She has hit a HUGE stubborn point and was in time out today for sticking her tongue out and "spitting". I know that's something she learned at school but she knows we consider it wrong and gets in trouble every time she does it. We've been working on getting her to sleep in her own bed all by herself - I'm still laying down with her until she goes to sleep. And because of the wetting her pants I told her this morning that I would bring her home a surprise if she didn't have any accidents today. She had asked me about her surprise probably 5-15 minutes before she turned around and pooped her pants. She asked me about her surprise and I told her I was sorry but I didn't have one for her because she had an accident today but she could try again tomorrow. Now I'm wondering if I shouldn't offer her rewards - actually right now I don't know what to do. If anyone has been through this please let me know what worked for you and reassure me we will get through this. We had told her we would go back to Disney when she learned to sleep all by herself (that's how she got potty trained - we told her if she did then she could tell Cinderella she was a big girl and it worked) - we told her tonight that we weren't going back if she didn't quit having "accidents" all the time too though. I think we will get through it and not have to cancel our trip (I really don't want to - but I have always been willing to follow through on what I tell her) the trip isn't until September and I think we will be LONG past all this (PLEASE PLEASE tell me we will) - it is just so frustrating. So any advice, etc is welcomed!!

 

[MSSANDRA]

Bet she is playing in to all the drama. WDW on the line is way too much for a 3 year old to have to handle. Add the fact that you are working on getting her to sleep in her own bed makes it even more stressful. I would back off on one or the other for a while. I have no sugestions for keeping her in her bed as DS slept with us. The potty thing however I have a few ideas. Almost the very same thing is happing with a co-workers same age DD. She finally told her that since she just wanted to "go" in her pants that she would just have to go back to all diapers. She made her watch as she packed up ALL the princess underwear. She was QUITE upset. She has to "poop in the poty 10 times before she can have her princess panties back.

The idea I however like best is to give the responcibility back to her. Buy two laundry baskets and all the underwear you can afford. TEll her that she is responcible for her own accidents. If she is wet or messy she must take off the soiled underwear, put them in the basket and clean up her mess and put on new ones. Of course confine this to the laundry or bathroom and expect to do some clean up behind her but this works most all the time.

Good luck. Just do not change the trip. That is was too much control for a toddler!!!!!!

 

[pl'smama]

I feel your pain!!! My DD is four and she was completely potty trained for quite awhile. We went to WDW last December when she was three and a half. She was afraid of the auto flush toilets and that made it very hard to get her to go at all. She did not have an accident, but once we got home she started wetting the bed every night. It is still going on, but not every night. I made her go back to wearing pull ups to bed as it is too much to change sheets every night.

The one thing I try not to do is embarrass or humiliate her. I know children learn self control earlier than we give them credit for, but it is a function that can be hard to control.

I like the pp's ideas, both of them. It is kind of like marking it on the calender each time they brush their teeth. The reward is too see how thier effforts pay off. Much like getting your princess panties back after pooping in the potty ten times in a row!!

Have faith that you will get through all of this. I agree, do not use WDW as a bribe or leaverage. Totally not fair to such a young child. The reward system has it's advantages, but that one is too big for her too understand.

Good luck!!

 

[gonemousin']

to you!

My youngest DD is also 3 yrs 5 months and lately she's been "spreading her wings" something fierce! She's testing my patience that's for sure!! But, as I always say...that's why God makes them so cute...so you don't kill 'em!

We haven't been through the potty regression stage, but my sister's DD did. It lasted for six months - she ended up taking her to the doctor to have her tested for a urinary tract infection (negative) and her doctor assured her that she'd outgrow it. It was a LONG six months for all of us. Often, potty training regression is typically triggered by something stressful, or a big change (new sibling, moving to a new home, stress in household, etc), but for my Dsis's DD, nothing explained it. It was so strange - she'd been trained for almost 8 months before she started regressing. My poor DSis and my DBil were sooooo frustrated with her. They tried everything - bribing, begging, ignoring - nothing worked. She didn't even seem to notice when she had an accident. Eventually they just went back to square one and retrained her, or rather retrained themselves by reminding her to go potty if she hadn't peed in awhile (but had consumed liquid), and slowly but surely she got back on track.

The most important thing is to remain calm and collected...as hard as it is! Don't make it a battle of wills...you'll definitely lose! It's her body and she can and will control it.

Pesky little people these three year olds can be!! Good luck to you and I hope you regain your sanity soon!!

 

[ohiominnie]

Severe constipation can cause exactly what you describe. My son goes through bouts of this. And he's 10! For awhile he was going pee every 10 minutes, but only drops at a time. I wondered if he didn't have a UTI, but he didn't complain it hurt when he peed. Then he started with the messes in his pants, but he couldn't control it at all. Poor little thing. Once we got him pooping well with Miralax and/or Metamucil, he's been fine. Now if he has issues it's usually b/c he hasn't had the stool softeners in awhile. Once he's back taking those, he's fine again.

I HIGHLY recommend giving a listen to dh's podcast on constipation:
http://www.pediascribe.com/podcast/20061106/pediacast-17-constipation-347-404-5437/

 

[ohiominnie]

Severe constipation can cause exactly what you describe. My son goes through bouts of this. And he's 10! For awhile he was going pee every 10 minutes, but only drops at a time.

Btw, the peeing every 10 minutes is b/c of the constipation. If you can imagine a huge brick of stool in the rectum, it's right near the bladder. The bladder can feel that brick there and spasms, making the child pee some.

Just wanted to clarify why there was a urinary tract component to constipation.

Of course, a medical exam is probably a good first step.

 

[WDWorBUST]

You know I didn't think of the trip that way. We were planning on going and was hoping to "motivate" her. I think I'll talk to DH after she's in bed and just totally drop the Disney trip with her. If she asks we'll just tell her we are going.
What do you think of little reward bags for going without an accident?? I'm not talking substantial (the budget won't handle that) but little dollar store things?? I'm not opposed to having her clean up after herself - but I would have to get my mom on board with it (she watches her 3 full days and 2 half days a week - the other 2 she's in a "school") and I think it might be too much for her.
Keep the input and ideas coming

 

[WDWorBUST]

Btw, the peeing every 10 minutes is b/c of the constipation. If you can imagine a huge brick of stool in the rectum, it's right near the bladder. The bladder can feel that brick there and spasms, making the child pee some.

Just wanted to clarify why there was a urinary tract component to constipation.

Of course, a medical exam is probably a good first step.

You know we had her at the doctor just last week (or maybe the week before) because she was complaining that her side hurt - after a thorough exam we were told there was absolutely nothing wrong with her....can constipation cause side pain - not her tummy but under her ribs?

 

[ohiominnie]

You know we had her at the doctor just last week (or maybe the week before) because she was complaining that her side hurt - after a thorough exam we were told there was absolutely nothing wrong with her....can constipation cause side pain - not her tummy but under her ribs?

I read your post to my dh (the pediatrician) and he immediately said "SURE!" Then he added "Constipation can cause pain so severe that kids have gotten their appendix taken out because of it." (thinking it was a bum appendix, they get in there and the appendix is fine and the colon is stuffed full of poo)

It's very very very common. Kids aren't quite as active these days, they don't eat a bunch of fiber rich foods (what kid likes a lot of vegies?) and most don't get a lot of water. Then add to that they don't like to stop to go poop....they'd rather play. Each time you ignore the urge to poop, you make the constipation worse. Or they go in to poop, push out one bit of it, then run off to play. The rest accumulates in there. It's extremely common.

Take a listen to the podcast if you have a minute. I think it'll have a lot of great info in there for you to help you understand constipation, how it occurs, what symptoms are, how to treat it.

 

[Mouse House Mama]

Don't feel bad some kids go through this. My dd did this for about a week after we got back from Disney when she was 2.5. When I tell you this kid never had an accident once in 9 days that we were in WDW. We pottied around the world! We tried every single potty they have at every park at WDW. It only lasted about a week and basically she didn't feel like getting up when she was playing or watching a movie etc. It stopped after a week when I told her that I was going to put diapers on her again. She was not having any of that. She's a "big girl"! It put an end to it immediately. I don't have any great advice as you have to find out what motivates her. Good luck. This too shall pass.

 

[WDWorBUST]

Thanks for all the tips and support. I was at my wits end last night. I don't know why she's doing it - but I think part of it is being too occupied and not wanting to take the time to stop and pee. She goes to "school" 2 days a week from 8:30 to 3:30 and hasn't had a single accident there which makes me less worried it's something physical. She has actually been to WDW 2 times since she has been potty trained and she had I think 1 accident out of 15 days between the two - and that was one of those cases she told me but we just couldn't get there quick enough. I will definitely keep an eye on her for constipation though and try to make sure she's getting enough fiber and water. I did talk to DH also and we are dropping WDW as a result of her behavior. In fact we have decided we just aren't going to talk about it at all unless she brings it up. I also need to react better.....I may be contributing to the problem because I get SO frustrated with her. This too shall pass.

 

[Nanisashi]

Stay strong! My dd 4 now, regressed at that same age, it was so frustrating because she would obviously be holding it in, then refused to go to the bathroom only to pee in her underwear two minutes later. I think it may have lasted a full month, then it gets old and they go back to peeing properly!
About sleeping in her own bed, my daughter just started a couple of months ago, we got her her favorite character sheets and pillow, plus her own little radio. We would also leave the 'big' light on. Good luck with everything!

 

[ohiominnie]

If you rule out the constipation thing (which she can't help to have accidents if it's that) then think about what your daughter's currency is. What will she work for? For some kids, that is a trip to Chuck E. Cheese. For others it may be going to a movie. For others it's a trip to the park. Whatever it is (you know her best) use that to your advantage.

Make a sticker chart. Pick the number of days she needs to be accident free and make that many boxes. Don't make it long. 3 yr old cannot grasp "if you're accident free for a month...." More like "every day you don't have an accident you can put a sticker on the chart. when you have 5 stickers, we can go to Chuck E. Cheese."

Then, if she's accident free that day, at the end of the day make a big deal about it. Dance and sing and have her apply her own sticker. Make a big deal "look, only TWO more days!!!"

If she has an accident, no sticker, but don't belabor the point. Just mater of factly state there won't be a sticker, but that she can try the next day. End of story. Kinda like a puppy....make the big deal about going pee OUTSIDE and quitely clean up the messes inside.

That is, if you've ruled out physical problems. I remember in 2nd grade my mom used to make me scrub out my underwear and I actually got spanked for having accidents......until a couple of weeks later I was diagnosed with a UTI and to this day she carries that guilt. I'm fine with it....she did what she knew to do and she was frustrated at the time.....but I'm just saying don't expect her to be accident free if there is a physical problem that she has no control over causing it.

HTH.

 

[belle&beast]

I agree with ohiominnie. My DD was potty trained at 26 months and began having accidents at 3. We took her to a urologist who told us we were pushing her too hard. Finally after 2 years of accidents, a new pediatrician and a pediatric urologist, we found out that she does have physiological issues and we have to keep her very regular. I am not saying that is your DD's problem, but be sure of the constipation. We also found that it helped not to bring attention to the accidents. She cleaned up her own messes and there was no punishment but also no extra attention. Good luck! I know how frustrating it can be!

 

[PAdisMOM]

I've gone through this with my DD (now 6 1/2). When she was 3 and 4 this would happen on occasion, but never at day care- just at our house. So I assumed that it was something she could control but was choosing not to for some reason. We tried punishment, bribes, rewards, etc. I'm not sure what worked, but it eventually stopped. Making her go to the potty on a schedule helped a lot, but wasn't perfect.

Fast forward to kindergarten- School starts and she starts peeing her pants again! It was very smelly and embarrasing to her. She had a constant odor. We were so upset and didn't know what to do. Nothing worked. Finally she was diagnosed with a UTI and everything worked out after the infection cleared.

1st grade starts this year and the same thing happens. This time at least I knew to take her to the dr. This had been her 4th UTI in about 3 years. So we had to go to a specialist for tests to determine why she was getting frequent UTIs. The uroligist finally concluded that she was very constipated and this fecal matter built up in her was the probable source of the bacteria causing her infections.

Just my experience. It seems to agree with several other posters.

 

[WDWorBUST]

I haven't completely ruled out constipation yet - I haven't completely researched what to look for yet and haven't had a chance to listen to the podcast yet (thanks ohiominnie) - but from my very limited knowledge I don't think that's it. She is going regularly (as regularly as she always has) and doesn't seem to have to strain and her stool doesn't seem overly hard. But again - before I completely rule it out I will look into it more closely - the side episode last week Is what really is making me think that may be it....or at least might have been contributing. She's been doing this now for a couple of weeks to a month....at first we went with the approach of "accidents will happen" lets just do better. But it's getting so ridiculous. But she is 3 and these things happen. Today before I left for work I told her I would bring her a surprise if she didn't have any accidents. If she does - I'll just stick with the "let's just do better tomorrow" approach. I am really lucky she is a sweet little girl that typically is very easygoing and cooperative....she has just hit a point that it seems like it's all about "showing me" - I think it's a mother/daughter thing. Dh went to pick up dinner last night and I asked him to take her with him to give me a break and while they were gone she told him she wanted him to be proud of her today (tomorrow). Of course that made me feel like dirt. We will get through this - I just want to make it as easy on me as possible as well as on her.

 

[gonemousin']

You know we had her at the doctor just last week (or maybe the week before) because she was complaining that her side hurt - after a thorough exam we were told there was absolutely nothing wrong with her....can constipation cause side pain - not her tummy but under her ribs?

Did the doctor actually test her urine for a UTI or a kidney infection - both can cause incontinence and pain in her side (speaking from personal experience...queen of UTI's when I was a child).

 

[pbharris4]

My DD only had accidents when she had 2 different UTI's. The Dr. said that constipation can cause UTI's as well. Anyway, My Dd will be 4 in June and is at the stage of telling us NO and I don't want to, etc. I pick my battles, it depends on what it is. But as far as getting her back on track for potty training...try M&Ms. Not a lot of them, but every time she goes give her 2 M & Ms..if she poops give her 3..you don't want to load her up on them though. My Dd at 2.5 was trained that way and going straight from diapers to pretty underwear. She was trained in 3 days. Whether it's a sticker or M&Ms, instant gratification is more rewarding for them since they don't have a big grasp on time. My DD knew she'd get 2 "MeeMees"-she calls them, as soon as she went potty so she was really motivated to do it more.

 

[pbharris4]

Oh and if she has a UTI, smell her pee when she first goes in the morning. I know, gross, but I can always tell when DD gets one because it like smells up the whole room.

 

[xoprincessmomxo]

I trained my daughter with candies, too! Worked perfectly! As for your daughter: My sister is going through the same thing with my niece who turned 3 in January. It took a long time to potty train her, but when she finally got the point, she got it. No accidents, no wetting the bed, nothing. But then, a couple of months ago, she started howling in the car that she was going to pee her pants. My sister hurried home, and she went on the toilet, but from that day on she only wanted to wear diapers. If you put her in underwear she would scream and say she was having an accident, even though her pants were dry. My ds took her to the dr. figuring she had a uti. But it was ruled out. They thought that she might be constipated, but that doesn't seem to be the problem either. After another trip to the dr, they've set her up with an appointment with a pediatric urologist. The poor little girl is a total type a: she frets and worries over everything,so they think it might also be psychological. I don't have any suggestions, but just want you to know that other people are in your shoes too! You're definitely not alone! It won't last forever and it will get better. Hang in there!!!