OT - Gifted Kids

[StitchandPooh'sMom]

Here is my opinion.

In the state that I live in (NC) gifted classes don't start until 4th grade. If your child is tested as gifted before that well, too bad so sad....you will have to find ways to enrich them at home.

That is not the case statewide in NC public schools. In our school, official determination of AIG placement is in third grade. However, pullouts begin in first or second grade for kids who need an extra challenge. DD7 is in first grade and receives differentiated math and reading from her first grade teacher. DD10 has been pulled out since first grade for math and reading with the AIG teacher. It depends on the school and the district how they choose to accommodate gifted kids.

 

[deerhart]

with my son's school, they automatically add enrichment based on the child's needs. This could be through computer games, deeper involvement into the assignment etc..

Also if you have a 2e kid (twice exceptional) don't be surprised if they do struggle with their regular school work DESPITE their intelligence.

My son is struggling in 4th grade because alot of the work is geared even more towards auditory and social items, like persuasive writing! He's a visual kid with speech and CAPD issues, let alone his ADHD. For a very long time many thought he would work his way into an ASD diagnosis (but he never has and now at almost 10 its doubtful he will). His working and non-verbal IQ is estimated to be in the 145-160 range (tested at 140, considered decreased due to the ADHD as he wasn't on any medication at the time of testing). He is so visual that to compensate for his speech and hearing issues he taught himself to read at age 2.

He also works things backwards. So he will be able to solve math problems well above his understanding of the easier items. For example, he could multiple numbers before he grasped the concept that multiplication is adding the same number over and over. SO we are always working from a top down approach. Of course, since he knows the answer he didn't want to work on HOW he got there, which made it harder when he has gotten to things he doesn't get right away. So we are constantly walking him through the steps and breaking down how to solve the problems (really its been division that has gotten him).

My son does have an IEP and he has lots of teachers who work with him. We also supplement at home. It just seems to be a way of life for us We go to the zoo to see the animals and we end up in discussions on what countries each animal is from, where that is located in the world, why certain animals have certain characteristics, what it means for an animal to be endangered etc..

My son is eligible for the schools TAG program. When they tested him, he tested at the 99.4% for math and nonverbal skills, but tested in the 75% for verbal skills (due to speech and CAPD of course). We do not want to put him in it and probably won't ever do it. He already has enough pull outs in school (speech, resource room, and him asking to have a quieter environment or time to regroup himself). Plus, in the district we are in, they will supplement in the classroom and quite a bit of the work is dependent on the child's level, not the classrooms. They start TAG here in Kindy (they go half a day a week).

I would agree, if the child is happy at school, not bored, and not acting out then just add things at home. That is also one of the reasons why we don't push the TAG either. He did act out quite a bit in kindy and first grade due to being bored and arguing with the teacher when they made the assignments too easy, but his SPED teacher caught on pretty quickly and got the acceleration going in resource room!

 

[Minniemama350]

I have not read all of the responses. I teach 1st grade and have a gifted autistic child. 1st of all, many kids are ahead in math/reading. It is definitely the teacher's job to differentiate and progress every child. However, I would not be asking for my spectrum child to be promoted because they would miss out on precious time they need to work on socialization. He proved he could handle the work and then some. Had we skippd grades, I don't think he would've learned how to make friends like he has. Just my 2 cents from my little world!

 

[Colleen27]

My son is struggling in 4th grade because alot of the work is geared even more towards auditory and social items, like persuasive writing! He's a visual kid with speech and CAPD issues, let alone his ADHD. For a very long time many thought he would work his way into an ASD diagnosis (but he never has and now at almost 10 its doubtful he will). His working and non-verbal IQ is estimated to be in the 145-160 range (tested at 140, considered decreased due to the ADHD as he wasn't on any medication at the time of testing). He is so visual that to compensate for his speech and hearing issues he taught himself to read at age 2.

He also works things backwards. So he will be able to solve math problems well above his understanding of the easier items. For example, he could multiple numbers before he grasped the concept that multiplication is adding the same number over and over. SO we are always working from a top down approach. Of course, since he knows the answer he didn't want to work on HOW he got there, which made it harder when he has gotten to things he doesn't get right away. So we are constantly walking him through the steps and breaking down how to solve the problems (really its been division that has gotten him).

My son does have an IEP and he has lots of teachers who work with him. We also supplement at home. It just seems to be a way of life for us We go to the zoo to see the animals and we end up in discussions on what countries each animal is from, where that is located in the world, why certain animals have certain characteristics, what it means for an animal to be endangered etc..

That sounds a LOT like my oldest. It is a strange line to walk between his issues (he's dyslexic and ADHD) and his abilities. On one hand, he's getting all the answers right in his math lessons, but on the other he can't seem to get a grasp of long division in order to properly show how he got to those answers. Pursuing his interests at home has become a way of life for us too, because there's no time to get as engrossed in a subject as he would like during the school day. And he struggles somewhat socially because he can come off a bit single-minded or worse, as a know-it-all, because he has virtually no filter between brain and mouth and tends to be very excited to share any even tangentially related bit of trivia that comes to mind about any given subject of conversation.

In a lot of ways, my more academically talented daughter is the easier child to parent. Their test scores are comparable, but she's clearly on the "bright" side of that chart that was posted, while my oldest has more of the "gifted" characteristics.

 

[Mouse House Mama]

I just wanted to add something to all the high IQ number stuff. You can have a high IQ and not be considered gifted if you will. Many kids have high IQ's but cannot figure out how to use it/unlock it. I know that sounds stupid but it is the truth. Even a great teacher may not be able to show a child how to do that. IMO IQ is just a number. It is all the other things that have to come together to show true giftedness. I hope this makes sense.

 

[donalds friend]

As a parent of a 17 year old Aspie son I would hesitate skipping a grade. As others have said for social reasons. I wish I had held my son out of school for a year but I didn't because he was so smart. he could have actually skipped first grade. He is due to graduate this year and he is not ready to go out in the world and take care of himself and manage a college career. He has done well academically, but socially it has been a nightmare. He still likes childish things and has just now learned to not "advertise" it and set himself up for ridicule. Remember, when a child skips a grade, they will be going out into the world a year earlier as well.

 

[Britgirlus]

My ds6 has not been identified as "gifted", but is definitely "smart". He is in first grade - a summer birthday, so one of the youngest in the grade. He has one peer who reads at his level, so they are grouped together during reading time. He goes to 2nd grade for math, and also to a math enrichment session once a week with the ULE (gifted) teacher (along with 6 2nd graders). At his recent conference, the ULE teacher suggested he also go along to other enrichment classes with him - that should start anytime soon. He will be tested in April, so see exactly where he is at. We do have a "gifted" public school, but will not send him there, even if he qualifies, for various reasons. So far, his school and teachers have been wonderful about challenging him - his teacher also gives him his own personalised spelling list each week - and I know how lucky we are that they are advocating for him ! I am lucky in that my son loves school and

 

[Aristomommy]

I just wanted to add something to all the high IQ number stuff. You can have a high IQ and not be considered gifted if you will. Many kids have high IQ's but cannot figure out how to use it/unlock it. I know that sounds stupid but it is the truth. Even a great teacher may not be able to show a child how to do that. IMO IQ is just a number. It is all the other things that have to come together to show true giftedness. I hope this makes sense.

How true!! There is more to a child than one IQ test number. That's why our school district requires IQ and achievement tests to be in the gifted classroom. Many high IQ kids have unique learning styles that do not fit well within the traditional schools.

 

[Tinkmom75]

The problem is each of these gifted kids can have very unique different abilities. My DS also has the awful handwriting problem. I think the brain is moving too fast for the hand to write! Ask him questions and verbally he can blow your mind. These kids are asynchonous and can be extreme in one area like Science, but have handwriting that is below average. Of my three children there is a definate difference in the middle one. My DD gets all A's, but she works hard for it. DS1 it is just there no effort. DS2 is bright and imaginative and totally different. Unfortunately this is not clear cut. I think all kids need to be well rounded, but my DS could have benefitted from and acceleration program early on. I say the sooner you do something the better.

 

[C&G'sMama]

I'm not trying to push DS nor do I want him to be "Doogie Howser". But I don't want school to become so easy that he gets bored and stops trying.

As for the social pieces, he's in a group once a week with other boys on the spectrum run by our local children's hospital/psych division. He will be starting a LEGO playgroup with other kids on the spectrum through UNYFEAT, "Upsate New York Families for Effective Autism Treatment" and he starts Karate at our local Y next week. At school he takes piano and guitar lessons. I just wished they would stick more with the plan of giving him challenging academic work rather than busy work.

We do all kinds of stuff with him at home. Right now he's into Pirates and Greek Gods, the latter coming from watching Disneys "Hercules" and then the questions. Who is Hercules, Zeus, etc. His uncle gave him a book of Greek Mythology for Christmas which he loves to read. He loves making dioramas and doing science experiments.

But he does come home saying he's bored. No, I don't expect a kid to be entertained all the time but even if 5 hours of every day he is doing work below his level, what's the point?

 

[Mickeypooh99]

I'm not trying to push DS nor do I want him to be "Doogie Howser". But I don't want school to become so easy that he gets bored and stops trying.

As for the social pieces, he's in a group once a week with other boys on the spectrum run by our local children's hospital/psych division. He will be starting a LEGO playgroup with other kids on the spectrum through UNYFEAT, "Upsate New York Families for Effective Autism Treatment" and he starts Karate at our local Y next week. At school he takes piano and guitar lessons. I just wished they would stick more with the plan of giving him challenging academic work rather than busy work.

We do all kinds of stuff with him at home. Right now he's into Pirates and Greek Gods, the latter coming from watching Disneys "Hercules" and then the questions. Who is Hercules, Zeus, etc. His uncle gave him a book of Greek Mythology for Christmas which he loves to read. He loves making dioramas and doing science experiments.

But he does come home saying he's bored. No, I don't expect a kid to be entertained all the time but even if 5 hours of every day he is doing work below his level, what's the point?

It would really worry me if he is coming home saying he is bored. You don't want him sitting around all day being bored. You should find something he likes to do that the teacher will allow him to do during school. When my son was in K, he would finish the busy work, and then he would write stories. He loved to write stories, and it gave him something to do. He also would help other kids with their work when the teacher asked him to. That gave him a feeling of importance to help the teacher.

I agree what is the point of doing 5 hours of work below his level. That is why we skipped my son. I was really close to pulling him out to homeschool when the teacher suggested skipping. I know it wouldn't have been easy, but I would need to do what was best for him.

It sounds like you are keeping him busy outside of school, and that is great. Another poster mentioned Odyssey of the Mind, and that is a great program you might want to look into.

 

[Mickeypooh99]

I don't think anyone has mentioned it yet, but have you read "A Nation Decieved: How schools hold back America's brightest students."

You can find it online, and it is very interesting.

http://www.accelerationinstitute.org/nation_deceived/

 

[Mickeypooh99]

I just wanted to add something to all the high IQ number stuff. You can have a high IQ and not be considered gifted if you will. Many kids have high IQ's but cannot figure out how to use it/unlock it. I know that sounds stupid but it is the truth. Even a great teacher may not be able to show a child how to do that. IMO IQ is just a number. It is all the other things that have to come together to show true giftedness. I hope this makes sense.

I agree that IQ is just a number, but does it really matter if your child is truely gifted. What matters is that they are receiving an education that is appropriate for them. There is no point in going to school to "learn" things you already know. I don't really like to lable my child gifted, and I have never told him he is gifted. He does know that I work to provide him challenges, and he enjoys the challenges.

 

[C&G'sMama]

I don't think anyone has mentioned it yet, but have you read "A Nation Decieved: How schools hold back America's brightest students."

You can find it online, and it is very interesting.

http://www.accelerationinstitute.org/nation_deceived/

Thank you so much for all of the information you posted. I'll look at this at home tonight. I was thinking that we as a nation bemoan the fact that our students are behind those of other nations yet at the same time nothing is being done about it. We teach to the middle. We are not only doing our children a disservice but our country as a whole.

 

[C&G'sMama]

I agree that IQ is just a number, but does it really matter if your child is truely gifted. What matters is that they are receiving an education that is appropriate for them. There is no point in going to school to "learn" things you already know. I don't really like to lable my child gifted, and I have never told him he is gifted. He does know that I work to provide him challenges, and he enjoys the challenges.

I know I posted "the number" But that was after I felt (not you, you've been great) that I was getting the eyeroll, oh everyone thinks their child is a genius. No, he is a very bright little boy and I want to make sure he gets the education he deserves. And if we can help some other children who don't have someone pushing for them, even better.

DP volunteers at school and one girl in DD's class is always getting in trouble (she's been this way as long as we've been at the school (since 2nd grade)) She likes DP, DP says "T, what are doing?" "Mrs W "I'm bored" So hopefully us nudging the school and DP relays these stories to the school head will help some of these other kids.

 

[Tinkmom75]

I know I posted "the number" But that was after I felt (not you, you've been great) that I was getting the eyeroll, oh everyone thinks their child is a genius. No, he is a very bright little boy and I want to make sure he gets the education he deserves. And if we can help some other children who don't have someone pushing for them, even better.

DP volunteers at school and one girl in DD's class is always getting in trouble (she's been this way as long as we've been at the school (since 2nd grade)) She likes DP, DP says "T, what are doing?" "Mrs W "I'm bored" So hopefully us nudging the school and DP relays these stories to the school head will help some of these other kids.

I hope you didn't think I was giving you the eyeroll, because that is total opposite of what I was trying to do. I also know IQ is just a number and it can vary a lot depending on which IQ test was given.

I'm sure you can tell the difference between bright and gifted by what you have stated. I encouraged MickeyPooh to have her son skipped and I hope I was helpful when she was going through the difficult decision. I'm sure the principal thought I was one of "those pushy" parents. Unfortunately I didn't get anywhere because my DS does not have the same self discipline as MickeyPooh's DS also there was a different principal in place when her son was skipped.

I guess my biggest regret is not skipping my DS in early elementary or moving him to a charter school or private school that could meet his needs. Now I just don't want to do that because he has his friends in his current school. My DS did not have severe behavior issues, but he did start bothering other kids because he was bored. Thank goodness it didn't get to the point where he had to go to the principal. Now, like I state earlier, he feels it's OK to be status Quo. I know he is not reaching his full potential and really have to encourage him. He is doing good in school and in advanced Math (that is the only advanced class in his MS), but I worry about him losing interest. I really have to spend more time encouraging him to do well than my "bright" hard working daughter.

Hoagies has the link to a nation deceived as well as some other really great articles.

 

[C&G'sMama]

I hope you didn't think I was giving you the eyeroll, because that is total opposite of what I was trying to do. I also know IQ is just a number and it can vary a lot depending on which IQ test was given.

I'm sure you can tell the difference between bright and gifted by what you have stated. I encouraged MickeyPooh to have her son skipped and I hope I was helpful when she was going through the difficult decision. I'm sure the principal thought I was one of "those pushy" parents. Unfortunately I didn't get anywhere because my DS does not have the same self discipline as MickeyPooh's DS also there was a different principal in place when her son was skipped.

I guess my biggest regret is not skipping my DS in early elementary or moving him to a charter school or private school that could meet his needs. Now I just don't want to do that because he has his friends in his current school. My DS did not have severe behavior issues, but he did start bothering other kids because he was bored. Thank goodness it didn't get to the point where he had to go to the principal. Now, like I state earlier, he feels it's OK to be status Quo. I know he is not reaching his full potential and really have to encourage him. He is doing good in school and in advanced Math (that is the only advanced class in his MS), but I worry about him losing interest. I really have to spend more time encouraging him to do well than my "bright" hard working daughter.

Hoagies has the link to a nation deceived as well as some other really great articles.

I'll defintely look. I also need to reconnect with AGATE New York (Advocacy for Gifted and Talented Education in New York.)

It just makes no sense that we are essentially devaluing these kids. My DD (4th grade) as I mentioned in my first post is average to struggling. She's getting all kinds of help. And it doesn't help that her 1st grader brother does work in all subjects at or above her level. She was worried that he'd skip so many grades he'd end up in her class. We assured her that isn't going to happen. He's not even skipping one at this point.

 

[sharlon]

We were in a similar situation here. My oldest dd skipped a grade early on in public school. She went to school able to read and write and do basic math. Even skipping a grade, she was still ahead of the other kids, bored, and always trying to find something to do. Her mind just needs something to work on all the time. Eventually, we decided to homeschool her so she could get what she needed. She graduated highschool the same week she turned 16. She also has already cleped out of 7 college courses. This year she is attending cosmetology school just for fun. Next year, she will take graphic design at the same school. After that, she will go away to college. I wanted to hold her back, was not comfortable with her graduating early or skipping grades but it has worked well for her (once we found more to keep her busy for the next two years) I wouldnt send her to college now as the one she has chosen is in NY and we are in OK. But I have no doubt she will suceed when she gets there.

Other than the accelerating a year, I feel like you could be writing about my DD11. She is my only child that I homeschool. We pulled her out after 4 years of her not being taught anything she didn't already know. Funny thing is, her sister is equally as academically gifted, but personality wise, public school is absolutely the BEST place for her.

I just wanted to add something to all the high IQ number stuff. You can have a high IQ and not be considered gifted if you will. Many kids have high IQ's but cannot figure out how to use it/unlock it. I know that sounds stupid but it is the truth. Even a great teacher may not be able to show a child how to do that. IMO IQ is just a number. It is all the other things that have to come together to show true giftedness. I hope this makes sense.

Totally agree with this statement. When we had DD11 tested by a Neuropsychologist who specializes in gifted kids and kids with learning disabilities, DD's IQ score was out of sync with all of her other test scores. The Doctor explained that if you child has perfectionism issues (and self -esteem issues) it can greatly skew the score. DD, for instance, will know the answer, but because of the fear of not being right, she will not answer right away. Unfortunately, one of the factors in a WISC IQ score is reaction time. I had a meeting last Thursday with the head of AIG (gifted) for our district and she said she sees that a lot in gifted kids who are perfectionists.

 

[sharlon]

Thought I would share this quote that I found this morning.

...Failure to help gifted children reach their potential is a societal tragedy, the extent of which is difficult to measure but is surely great. How can we measure the loss of the sonata unwritten, the curative drug undiscovered, the absence of political insight? They are the difference between what we are and what we could be as a society.
James Gallagher