OT: DS+School=Bad Attitude

[ilandrazdsw]

DS is 5 and in grade 1. We live in the Bahamas and they begin school at 5 with no kindergarten. He had 2 years of nursery school (everyday for 3 hours) that I now believe did more harm than good (to the point of not sending DD this year).

We were supposed to move to the US last summer, but it had to be delayed until this summer. DS was the most disappointed about not moving.

Currently our biggest problem is DS not doing his school work in school and being rude. He will flat out refuse to do it or try to negotiate how much to do with his teacher. DS reads at nearly a 3rd grade level (with comprehension), and can add and subtract. The shcool is very poor. The students have to copy lessons and homework assignments from the board onto regular notebook paper (that they were never turly taught how to write on). He hates, refuses, fights, and tries to delay doing anything that has to do with copying from the board or writing longish sentences.

We have had his eyes checked befor ethe begining of school and have another appointment for next month (the soonest we could get him in). He was diagnosed as mild far sighted, but the DR said he should be able to compensate for that. We aren't sure if that is it...although it would explain not liking writitng. Unfortunately, he will write the words for phonics/reading without a fight (although it is not "pretty" and also not on notebook paper) so it doesn't back up that theory.

DH and I are hands on parents. We both volunteer in the classroom and check homework/unfinished assignments. We have met/talked with the teacher since the begning of the year of ways to motivate him with positive and negative reinforcement...and follow through. The teacher is kind of overwhelmed and doesn't use as much reinforcement as could motivate DS. Also, we don't have many/have limited motivators at home...no extracurricular activities to withhold simply because there are none on our island.

As a former special ed teacher I feel so guilty! Should I have done more to prepare him for school? Should I have been the one to teach him to write on lined paper? Do I let him get away with too much by ignoring unwanted behavior and picking my battles? Does any of this have to do with DH being gone for 3-5 weeks at a time for work? How much is he picking up on my attitude of not liking living here and not agreeing with how his school functions (most likely A LOT)? I know all of these issues paly a role.

This is the only government school available. The "private" school is not an option due to unqualified teachers (yes, I know that for a fact) and outrageous tuition. I homeschool DD(3) and still do want the positive aspects of school for DS (social, recess, pe), so homeschool is not high on my list...at this point I also don't want ot give him the idea that he can get out of something he doesn't like.

When DS changes schools to the US he will be repeating grade 1 as to be with his proper age group. I keep in touch with a friend who had her DS in the same school/grade to see where they are with academics. Truly I am hoping with another year of maturity and being happy with his surroundings next year will be more successful. Don't get me wrong...his grades are ok and he could be an A-B student IF he would actually DO the work. I have him do/finish the already graded assignmnets at home and he proves to me he knows the material.

Am I worrying too much about this? It seems like they want kids to grow up so fast these days that they are missing out on childhood. I want DS to learn through opportunity and as he is ready. Pushing information on him won't make him learn it if he isn't ready. BUT we can't let him get away with refusing to do work and disrespecting his teacher either. AND the teacher's hands are tied as to what she is supposed to teach (she has commented about not wanting to teach some things in a specific order or at all in gr 1).

Anyone have any ideas to motivate this stubborne child or clam this frustrated mom? Pulling him out of school and homeschooling are not options at this time.
Thanks for reading my rambling...its been a long week!

 

[PrincessParty]

Hopefully someone will have some advice of value. Just wanted to offer a

 

[3boymthr]

Don't know if this will help or not...

Don't feel bad if DS is having trouble with his first year at school. Many times it is just a maturity issue or an unwillingness to give up all his playtime yet. DS#3 was very immature, he was just a very "young" 5 - more like a 4 yr old than a 5 yr old. He did poorly - didn't want to complete assignments, etc. his first year in school. He's repeating K this year and he is doing fantastic because although he is one of the oldest in class he is now the same "age" as the other kids.

Also, I know you are a special ed teacher but I can think of a problem off the top of my head that might be causing this behavior and that is not part of a lack of preparation on your part or a lack of maturity or willingness to attend school on his part.

DS#1 and DS#2 have a learning disability known as a disorder of written expression. It expresses itself with difficulty forming letters, backwards letters, in ability to express ideas in writing, extreme reluctance to pick up a pencil, getting others to do the writing for them, even after lower case letters are mastered an extreme preference for upper case letters will persist, etc. It is actually one of the disorders that make up the multiple parts of dyslexia, and rarely it can exist as the only problem. It often takes a while for this to be diagnosed when it is the only problem and sometimes is never diagnosed (we figured out after DS#1 was diagnosed that my DF also has the problem so it is hereditary), so if putting words/numbers on paper is the only area where he is having trouble in school with his assignments this could be the cause.

Often before we diagnosed the problem both boys would complain about hating school, etc. Now it is better, but it does still takes a LOT of work to get assignments done.

HTH

 

[sk!mom]

Wow- 5 is really young for a school that sounds so academic and structured. If he's reading that well at such a young age, today would be his last day in a substandard school. You can do better at home. I would pull him out, keep him home to be a little boy, do a little homeschooling, and maybe start next year if you move to an area with better schools.

For what it's worth, I'm a public school teacher and my two children attended public school (DD12 still does).

 

[ilandrazdsw]

WOW! 3boymthr, what you described sound very much like my DS. He knows it but for him to do it is another thing. I find this especially true when he has to write "stories." We talk about his ideas and he tells in imaginative sentences, but when it comes to putting it on paper he chooses simple sentences without the "flare" of the oral. Unfortunately, testing for ANY issue is not possible here, so it will have to wait untilwe move. On the up side, if maturity doesn't kick now we have something to start at. DH has horrible handwriting too. Thank you for you input!

PrincessParty, thank you for the

 

[disneymarie]

DS is 5 and in grade 1. DH and I are hands on parents. We both volunteer in the classroom and check homework/unfinished assignments. We have met/talked with the teacher since the begning of the year of ways to motivate him with positive and negative reinforcement...and follow through. The teacher is kind of overwhelmed and doesn't use as much reinforcement as could motivate DS. Also, we don't have many/have limited motivators at home...no extracurricular activities to withhold simply because there are none on our island.

As a former special ed teacher I feel so guilty! Should I have done more to prepare him for school? Should I have been the one to teach him to write on lined paper? Do I let him get away with too much by ignoring unwanted behavior and picking my battles? Does any of this have to do with DH being gone for 3-5 weeks at a time for work? How much is he picking up on my attitude of not liking living here and not agreeing with how his school functions (most likely A LOT)? I know all of these issues paly a role.

This is the only government school available. The "private" school is not an option due to unqualified teachers (yes, I know that for a fact) and outrageous tuition. I homeschool DD(3) and still do want the positive aspects of school for DS (social, recess, pe), so homeschool is not high on my list...at this point I also don't want ot give him the idea that he can get out of something he doesn't like.

Anyone have any ideas to motivate this stubborne child or clam this frustrated mom?

Thanks for reading my rambling...its been a long week!

Have you considered an online Charter school?
When my dd developed several phobias including school phobic after bullying it was a good choice, I had feared.

She is gifted, but the programs are selected to your childs ability levels and excellant. She is getting so much mmore out of school, the socializations issues are healing as she is maturating, and the program is TOPS!
It is challanging her giftedness in a way she was bored at school.

On the other hand the Math that she had axiety issues over, is at her pace, there is tutoring, the live lessons the kids are live in the lesson, Presentation teachlets, and all done online with Books, and a CD of the book too.

Her eye sight is poor so I can print pages and allow her to work at her pace, fast or slow and submit the work. Because of the flexibility it does not have to be one class after the other, You can work in the morning and then in the evening like homework time would be.

In the states there are several field trips, about 26 a month in various parts of the state so kids can socialize. There is a closed web mail system secured so the kids form friendships.

The phys Ed is done at home or you are given an allowance to use to karate classes, roller skating, horseback riding, gym, buying a Wii system, THe hours are documented and submitted through a drop bo, like email.

There is Health, Art, technology,and if you want a foreign language, music, there was even a small band with recorders, dd did not have interest.

But a homeroom teacher gives support, the learning program is specific to your child, and great communication. Now I do Connections academy.It took me several months to decide which I wanted. They have a special Ed program, gifted that is mmore then one gifted class a week...

I am not sure what there is in your area, but it is certainly worth looking into. The huge part of our situation was the relieveing the stress and pressure for now...Maybe she will mainstream by 8th or 9th grade.

www.connectionsacademy.com is the link, They provided the computer, all materials and books. I even get a check for the Internet connection three times a year.
There are many other programs.
Because the program is a charter through PA the tutition is paid for instead of going to her home school. So it is free.

Just an option,
di

 

[ilandrazdsw]

Thank you for all the info! The online school sound really great...the problem is our location. We have difficulty getting materials from the US (it costs a bundle to ship them and pay duty), some computer programs don't recognize servers from foreign countries (or methods of payment), and we have literally one extra curricular activity for boys..baseball and that is over 6 or 7 years old. I know it sounds like all excuses! If we were staying here next year I would have to find a different method of education. If I pull DS now I feel like that will give him the idea that he can get out of doing what he doesn't want to do.
Hopefully next year he will be in a school he wants to be in, it is Christian which is important to me and DH, and will have the option of YMCA and local extracurricular activities.
The joke of the school system here is that they are pushing the kids, starting them at 5 yo, but ultimately I do not see any proof (from students I know and written government lit) that the students are excelling. The school has NO $$. There are 18 student in gr 1 and at least 9 of them (some repeating or the second year) cannot or can barely read/write..one factor is no government k or pre-k program. The teacher (no aide) must start from ground 0 for those, while trying to challenge those that are more advanced...and ther is NO special education testing or program. There is NO help from administration and the principal will only really listen to men or those that agree with him and kiss ***. Spring cannot come soon enough..and not because of the weather
I just need to find a way for DS to motivate himself and find someway for him to get through, without a big mouth and still learning/doing his work!
Thanks for the suggestions! They are greatly appreciated.

 

[nessz79]

Honestly, I would homeschool him until you can get to the U.S. I think 5 is young to be simply copying down words, etc. I'm sure that he's bored. I wouldn't worry about the social aspect as he was in preschool before this. Also, when he gets to a U.S. school, he will get the social aspect for the rest of his life.
My son is 5 and in Kindergarten in a U.S. school. He can do basic reading (certainly not on a 3rd grade level- wow!), writing, counting, basic addition, etc. However, he gets so much MORE at a U.S. public school- he's learning social studies (topics such as MLK Jr.) and science (very basic stuff- senses, etc.), art, music, physical education (which I feel is very important at this age to be learning basic hand-eye coordination). There is so much more to school than copying things down. I hope that's not all he does in school or it's no wonder he's rebellious.

I don't mean to sound harsh or judgmental. You are the mother, you love him, and you will do what's right, whatever you might feel that is .

 

[disneymarie]

I would not right off an online schooling all together as an opeiton.The school pays the shipping, and they would for the gov funds. But there also may be other online schools. Are you in Us, Britsh territories?

Search the Internet for cyber schooling K-12

As far as activities, my dd was provided a jump rope and yoga pretzel cards. She can consider walking or playing catch, taking a hike, swimming, anything that day. In PA there is nothing that says a limit to how many hrs of phys activity.They do have a system were the good nutrician, healthy lifestyle, avoiding certain risk activities and that is all part of the online presentations and systems.

What your son is missing is the protection under the ACT 504 for childrens with disabilities. My dd has a perceived anxiety that prevents her from getting through a school door, your son may need another year to mature to consentrate. In essence, why not now keep him in a limited exposure as a day school, instead of first grade if he is 5.

It sounds like he is not ready. I had one of each type child, the first was like your son, he ended up in an IEP that put him in a smaller classroom, although his IQ was much higher then kids in the gifted program. But, he was 4 turning 5 the month Kindergarten started....much too immature.

THe youngest dd was the oldest in her class with a cut off at the 10 days away. Unlike the sone who was the last day to make the cutoff.

She is so bright, as he a high IQ but lacks emotional maturity, She is highly gifted, but burn a fire under her to face a book.She is a A student and C+ in 8th grade prealgebra. She is in 7th grade, and it is too emotional for her to face the work even if she tesst ready to do it. It scares her.

Anyway, How is your Verison reception? Verison has a satellite wireless about $49 a month. The school reimburses me three times a year for my cable hook up. or any wireless hook up.

Gee, if Apple has provided computer to kids in sub areas of Africa that run on solar power and have wireless Inet, your son should have availble some connection.

The great part of online school, is they dont just send a box of books!!!
Every book I have is accessable online, and in CD format. You also have an option to print the lesson, the page or the unit. They provide a printer too.

The again, there is the placement. They go over a detailed history of your sons past schooling and problems, you can request an IEP, if you wish too. The placement test provides for a special education for every child, and every talent.

I would research from even online forums for homeschoolers and cyber schoolers to see what is out there for the time being until you get to the states.

I think your son would love interacting in his own space with other students and teachers,
Just make a plan and stick to it, if but giving for bad days to escape awhile.

Sorry for typos and sp, I am leaving for Phila in a few minutes but wanted you to check the Internet out for cyber availibity.
There is no cost to you, so worth a try.

OH, For $14.99 or $19.99 www.time4school.com I think it was I started my dd on before the homebound started. It is not certified, but you can get a feel for how your son would do at a minimal cost. There are no live lessons with teachers, but you could see the attention span and how he would adapt. I think the first month is free....

Di

 

[ilandrazdsw]

My issue with home schooling/online schooling or even changing schools on island (if that was an option) is that DH and I don't want to give DS the idea that just because he doesn't like his placement it can be changed--AT THIS POINT. I do believe that he is having issues with writing beyond not liking it (and I do realize that by pushing/forcing him it could be detrimental). There is also the issues of maturity (he needs to!), my expectations (mom-teacher-mom-teacher UGH), and personal feelings about the school/schooling system (both DS and mine).
I guess what is needed is for the overworked teacher to conciously do positive reinforcement (how many other students would also benefit from this?!), we need to do more positive reinforcement at home and break down homework into several smaller segments with slight breaks, and I need to make my view of the school in general more positive (maybe it will rub off on him).
Despite the school work learned and done or not done, DS NEEDS to do the work (or at least try to do it) because he was told to do it by an adult. The back talking/disrespect cannot be allowed. Which again I think comes back to positive reinforcement...for positive behavior. Unfortunately the negative reinforcments that we have to our disposal really do not make an impression...at least enough to deter the negative behavior.
Thank you so much for all the thoughts!

 

[ilandrazdsw]

Honestly, I would homeschool him until you can get to the U.S. I think 5 is young to be simply copying down words, etc. I'm sure that he's bored. I wouldn't worry about the social aspect as he was in preschool before this. Also, when he gets to a U.S. school, he will get the social aspect for the rest of his life.
My son is 5 and in Kindergarten in a U.S. school. He can do basic reading (certainly not on a 3rd grade level- wow!), writing, counting, basic addition, etc. However, he gets so much MORE at a U.S. public school- he's learning social studies (topics such as MLK Jr.) and science (very basic stuff- senses, etc.), art, music, physical education (which I feel is very important at this age to be learning basic hand-eye coordination). There is so much more to school than copying things down. I hope that's not all he does in school or it's no wonder he's rebellious.

I don't mean to sound harsh or judgmental. You are the mother, you love him, and you will do what's right, whatever you might feel that is .

DS does have the benefit of social studies, science, PE, art, a little music (more is available at high grades), and Spanish (and some other languages including sign). They do not have books for those subject though. All material that the teacher wants them to have for future knowledge they have to write down (copy). I will give it to the teacher...for SS she did a unit on nationality and recognized/taught about those student who have dual citizenship of Bahamian/American or Haitian.

 

[sk!mom]

My issue with home schooling/online schooling or even changing schools on island (if that was an option) is that DH and I don't want to give DS the idea that just because he doesn't like his placement it can be changed--AT THIS POINT.

You have detailed several times how substandard and awful this school is yet you would leave him there to make a point? This is a 5 year old. You could be permanently damaging his attitude toward school. I really cannot understand leaving your child in a detrimental, negative situation when you have other options.

It really sounds like you need to pull him out and then do some serious work on his behavior and attitude. Get his behavior on track at home and then he may be ready for a better quality school next year.

Good Luck to you!

 

[wilderness01]

You have detailed several times how substandard and awful this school is yet you would leave him there to make a point? This is a 5 year old. You could be permanently damaging his attitude toward school. I really cannot understand leaving your child in a detrimental, negative situation when you have other options.

It really sounds like you need to pull him out and then do some serious work on his behavior and attitude. Get his behavior on track at home and then he may be ready for a better quality school next year.

Good Luck to you!

I completely agree.

 

[ilandrazdsw]

You have detailed several times how substandard and awful this school is yet you would leave him there to make a point? This is a 5 year old. You could be permanently damaging his attitude toward school. I really cannot understand leaving your child in a detrimental, negative situation when you have other options.

It really sounds like you need to pull him out and then do some serious work on his behavior and attitude. Get his behavior on track at home and then he may be ready for a better quality school next year.

Good Luck to you!

This is how I see it, but my view is also very warped as I hate where I live (thus moving). Also this is not where I grew up or went to school...the parents of other students in the class seem to not have the same issues that I have with the schooling. They also knew what was instore and expected of the students as they had attended the school. Being a parent-teacher I think I expect more from my DS than other parents (from having discussions with the other parents). Maybe all this is due to my US schooling experiences and expectations.
To DH and I homeschooling is not an option. We have discussed it since DS began school and even more in the last weeks.
DS does not throw tantrums when he has to go to school...he actually looks forward to school. If he was having issues with going in the first place then we would address that. His issues are with actually doing certain aspects of the work...writing sentences, long lists of words or numbers. When the work is too much (not too hard) he tries desperately to get out of it or reduce the number of items that has to be done. If he or the teacher is unable to minimize the work in segments then he gets an attitude.
I would be thrilled if there was testing with options of 504 and IEP so the teacher would have to segment work assigned, but this is not the US. Some students have had requests in for testing for nearly 2 years (with repeat requests) with no test date in sight. The teacher is overwhelmed and the principal has denied request after request for an assistant. She is also "old school" teaching. There are basically 2 grade levels in the class...1st and K that she must address. She teaches lessons not to the childrens' strengths...but again this is something I notice due to the background in special ed that other parents don't know/care about.
There are no easy answers as DS' issues could come for a combination of things. It will be interesting to see if changing schools and environments next year, along with a bit more maturity will help with his work (he is learning although he is not writing his assignment). If he still has problems we will at least be in a situation that will allow availability for testing for disabilities.

 

[pfp258]

Having a five year old copy assignments from a blackboard onto lined paper is a completely unrealistic expectation. I suggest a book on basic childhood development for yourself and the teacher. Your son will carry this negative experience with him for a very long time. You need to pull him out immediately.

 

[ilandrazdsw]

Having a five year old copy assignments from a blackboard onto lined paper is a completely unrealistic expectation. I suggest a book on basic childhood development for yourself and the teacher. Your son will carry this negative experience with him for a very long time. You need to pull him out immediately.

Are you an early childhood educator? If so maybe you could offer some ideas of motivation and/or positive reinforcement that could be tried with DS as I am running low on ideas. TIA!

 

[sk!mom]

Having a five year old copy assignments from a blackboard onto lined paper is a completely unrealistic expectation. I suggest a book on basic childhood development for yourself and the teacher. Your son will carry this negative experience with him for a very long time. You need to pull him out immediately.

Great Advice!

The assignments/expectations as described are in no way developmentally appropriate.

 

[sk!mom]

Are you an early childhood educator? If so maybe you could offer some ideas of motivation and/or positive reinforcement that could be tried with DS as I am running low on ideas. TIA!

I am an early childhood educator- My degree is in Early Childhood Education with State certifications in Early Childhood, Elementary Ed, and ESL. I have 12 years of teaching experience.

All that to say, I have no ideas for motivating your son to complete assignments that are so far outside the realm of reasonable or appropriate for a five year old child.

 

[DISNEYNV]

My DD is four and enrolled in a good preschool program three days a week and does not really care for the academics already. She is extremely bright but just wants to have some playtime with the other kids. I think that this is normal for four and five year old. Academics are important foundations in preschool and kindergarten but they also need to be able to socialize with other children in a non academic/ structured atmosphere as well. Five is very young for a child to be placed in a first grade academic setting. Most five year olds I know have problems writing in general let alone expected to write on the dotted lines. I would enforce that learning and going to school are very important but you as a parent have the responsibility to decide for him what is approriate academically. I would pull him out if you/ he is not comfortable with his school or teachers if you have the opportunity to find an alternative direction: homeschool or charter or even another year of preschool. Just my personal opinion.

 

[DISNEYNV]

I also have a degree in Early Childhood Ed