OT-dog behavior

[Crazy4Disney72]

This is mostly OT, but everyone here always has such great advice. I guess it's not totally OT, because a dog behavior specialist/trainer is going to cost money!

Here's the situation....in October we adopted an 18 month old male shetland sheepdog mix, Winston. We adopted him from a rescue organization. He seemed to be a great dog, friendly and house and crate trained. The foster parent said of the 4 dogs they had fostered, Winston was the best and they would miss him so much after having had him for 5 weeks. The foster parent specifically said how gentle he was, that he had a 20 month old daughter and Winston was always very gentle with her no matter what she did to him. Prior to the adoption we didn't know much about him, but once we got him we learned he had been adopted out by the organization once before but they had to get him back after reports he was being left out and mistreated.

The first week or so he was great and we all quickly fell in love with him. He knows his name and comes to it, plays with toys, likes to play fetch, loves to be petted, etc., just a great dog. However, I guess we had had him about a week when I walked up to him when he was laying down, not sleeping, but laying down, and went to pet him and he jumped up and snapped at me. I pulled my hand away before he could really bite me, but it was close.

Since then, there have been more and more instances of Winston snapping like that, and he has actually drawn blood on my hand, not serious, but still. We love him, but we are very cautious with him as we just don't know what causes him to snap. I just don't know what to do....am I irresponsible to keep a dog that could injure my kids or someone else? I love him, I really do, he's otherwise a great dog. When I was sick a couple weeks ago, he kept coming in to my room, almost like he was checking on me.

I can't imagine getting rid of him, I promised to be his forever family. I would miss him terribly. We love him and it seems he loves us. He is so happy to see us when we come home and when the kids walk out to the bus, he cries at the door watching them go. I don't know much about dogs, but is there like a dog behaviorist or something that could help him? It's not exactly a typical obedience school thing, he already sits, stays, comes, etc.

Any suggestions? Help!

 

[sunnyday123]

does he snap only when he's laying down? Is it only at you? I would be very concerned about this, he could injure you child. I would call the vet, make sure it's not anything medical, and then definitely call a trainer/behaviorist. The money would be worth knowing your family is safe.

 

[pipermae]

I can't imagine getting rid of him, I promised to be his forever family. I would miss him terribly. We love him and it seems he loves us. He is so happy to see us when we come home and when the kids walk out to the bus, he cries at the door watching them go. I don't know much about dogs, but is there like a dog behaviorist or something that could help him? It's not exactly a typical obedience school thing, he already sits, stays, comes, etc.

Any suggestions? Help![/QUOTE]

This is a tough situation, because he had been abused by a previous owner. Do you know if it was a woman or man or have any idea who was abusing him? I only ask because I have a friend who adopted a dog who had been abused and he hates men. It took him a while to get used to her dad.

Some advice that doesn't involve spanking him, is be careful when you approach him. You could have startled him and he didn't know who you were for a second. It happens to dogs, and people, all the time. My DBF has come up behind me to hug me and I've almost hit him hard a couple of times.

I'm sure he's not a bad dog, and I would highly suggest not getting rid of him. That would probably make the situation worse for him because he may feel unwanted if he continues to move through families. Try talking to your vet, or any vet. Being professionals, they could probably suggest someone to take him to, or something to do to help the situation.

I know I probably didn't help much... just thought I'd get you my $.02.

 

[Crazy4Disney72]

does he snap only when he's laying down? Is it only at you? I would be very concerned about this, he could injure you child. I would call the vet, make sure it's not anything medical, and then definitely call a trainer/behaviorist. The money would be worth knowing your family is safe.

No, he has snapped at the kids, too, fortunately no one has actually been bitten except me. We took him to the vet within the first two weeks of having him and he checked out fine except he had worms, got on meds for that and went back for a recheck and all is well. They loved him, said how friendly he was. I didn't mention the snapping because at that time it had only happened once or twice and I didn't think it was serious, thought I just startled him, but now it's happened more frequently and not only when he's laying down. I am very concerned and I just want there to be a solution other than getting rid of him.

Does anyone know how much behaviorists tend to cost?

 

[pipermae]

Is your dog fixed?

 

[pipermae]

I see you're from Penn. I don't know what part, but here's a site for someone in the Philly area.

http://www.k-9training.org/test/behavior.html

Behavioral consultations range from a one-hour session ($75) to a two hour session with a comprehensive behavioral workplan ($175)

I imagine prices will be around the same no matter where you go, but thought you could use a little help.

 

[Crazy4Disney72]

Is your dog fixed?

yes, he is.

 

[Sillyminny40]

I love dogs absolutely and we have the loveliest dog. It took a lot of time, puppy classes and care to get her this way.

On the other hand, my kids and my peace of mind are worth more than a dog who snaps. Your dog needs an expert and it will take some amazing care, training, hours and money to do so.

My parents twice had dogs that we had rescued but could not adapt to our home. We loved them but, they are dogs. You are the LAST person that dog should bite (I assume you are the only one who feeds it and should).

Dogs don't have emotions like humans. They are not thinking about who just "rejected" them. They want to belong to a pack and this dog needs a STRONG "alpha" dog to lead him. That means YOU have to be trained:
a trainer will take you through easy and very exciting ways to make your dog know where they are in the pack: right at the bottom of the ladder. Do not worry, dogs feel good about knowing where they are. Seriously.
Some training guidelines include:
leasing dog in house, no couches, no jumping up, no free taking of food from the bowl(feed 2x a day), NO human food whatsoever, crating (which you do) and many other things.

 

[Crazy4Disney72]

I see you're from Penn. I don't know what part, but here's a site for someone in the Philly area.

http://www.k-9training.org/test/behavior.html

Behavioral consultations range from a one-hour session ($75) to a two hour session with a comprehensive behavioral workplan ($175)

I imagine prices will be around the same no matter where you go, but thought you could use a little help.

Thank you so much! We are in the York area, so a couple hours from Philly, but this is helpful, thanks! Disers are great!

 

[Sillyminny40]

Thank you so much! We are in the York area, so a couple hours from Philly, but this is helpful, thanks! Disers are great!

You love that dog and he is worth it for you. All the best!

 

[Crazy4Disney72]

I love dogs absolutely and we have the loveliest dog. It took a lot of time, puppy classes and care to get her this way.

On the other hand, my kids and my peace of mind are worth more than a dog who snaps. Your dog needs an expert and it will take some amazing care, training, hours and money to do so.

My parents twice had dogs that we had rescued but could not adapt to our home. We loved them but, they are dogs. You are the LAST person that dog should bite (I assume you are the only one who feeds it and should).

Dogs don't have emotions like humans. They are not thinking about who just "rejected" them. They want to belong to a pack and this dog needs a STRONG "alpha" dog to lead him. That means YOU have to be trained:
a trainer will take you through easy and very exciting ways to make your dog know where they are in the pack: right at the bottom of the ladder. Do not worry, dogs feel good about knowing where they are. Seriously.
Some training guidelines include:
leasing dog in house, no couches, no jumping up, no free taking of food from the bowl(feed 2x a day), NO human food whatsoever, crating (which you do) and many other things.

Thank you, I appreciate your insights. Winston does lay on the sofa, I didn't care if he did so I never tried to get him to stop. He did have a terrible habit of jumping on people when they first came in the door when we first got him, but after the first couple weeks we were able to break him of that by saying Down! sternly and not giving him any attention until he was down. Now he doesn't jump up on people anymore. We do not give him human food and he is only fed twice a day. I crate him when the kids have friends over because I am afraid of what he might do. Sometimes he gets really wound up running around and I will crate him (just say, 'Winston, go home!' and he goes right to the crate), but otherwise he is not crated. He sleeps in the crate at night, but the door is open.

I am definitely going to contact the vet next week to see if she knows any behavior specialists that might be able to help us. I just love him and I want to be able to keep him because I promised to love him and give him a home forever.

I really, really appreciate all the suggestions.

 

[DisneygirlTeacher]

Sounds like Winston is just a scared rescue dog that had been mistreated and it will take lots of time, care and love for him to feel that trust he is missing. We, too, have a rescue dog...a little dachshund that we love so much! We have had him a little over a year and I have to say, it took him about a year to feel safe and secure. He is a changed dog from what he was. But, when they are abused and not loved they are just like a person, it takes a lot to make them know they are. To be honest, dog behavior specialists can be very, very expensive. We looked into it and it was $1300 for the dog to stay at the kennel for a week and have the lady come every single day to spend time with him and train him. I would give the world for him, but it was so much money we decided to work with him ourselves and see what would happen. Thankfully, he has calmed down (biting or snapping was never an issue, though.) He was just very nervous and barked at everyone that came near us. Now, he can go places and be fine, although he is territorial and doesn't like anyone at the house, so we are still working on that. I would think a dog trainer would be reasonable, just make sure you get a very qualified one. I have seen that the pet stores offer classes, but they had very young (to me anyway..lol) cashiers doing the training and to me it needs to be a very experienced trainer. Good luck with Winston! I just know from experience that a rescue dog can brighten your life so much. However, I work with children and know that the ones that come from not-so-great-homes have lots and lots of issues. Just like some dogs. They take an enormous amount of time and energy, but with lots of love and care, they can make it. Oh, and read Cesar Milan's books (The Dog Whisperer), who also has a tv show. He has excellent ideas! Again, all the best with Winston...get him some help now, learn the techniques of how to train him, and get a trainer asap. He is scared and confused right now but still deserves a chance!

 

[ACS228]

I second the suggestion for the Dog Whisperer. He really explains why certains behaviours may be happening. I have seen people put some of his ideas to work with great results. One friend used his tactics to calm down her two cats that were fighting! lol! You can probably get his book from the library or look up episodes of his tv show online.

 

[kmk160]

We live here in PA too and many years back we used a business called
Tall Tails Training.
We had to send our dog there for 2 weeks for their "boot camp"
but was so super worth it.
She came back a different, lovable animal.
Might be worth checking into.
We're in the Lehigh Valley area.

 

[wdwfam]

We have a sheltie, and I agree about "The Dog Whisperer". His first bit of advice would be exercise. That's what our sheltie requires. She is a bundle of energy and to get her to focus and calm, she must be exercised. Of course, we go to dog school too, which has helped a lot. I'm sorry you have the snapping issues. We don't deal with that, but she is extremely shy. Good luck!

 

[Matt'sMom]

We took him to the vet... I didn't mention the snapping because at that time it had only happened once or twice and I didn't think it was serious, thought I just startled him, but now it's happened more frequently and not only when he's laying down.

Really would need a lot more specific info on the situations surrounding when the dog snaps, before even begining to venture a guess as to the cause and potential solutions.

If most often the snapping behavior occurs in reaction to being touched, or approached as if one is about to touch the dog (he may be trying to warn you not to touch)... then I definitely would make another trip to the vet for a more thorough exam before assuming this is purely behavioral. It sounds as if the vet was not aware of the 'snapping issue' during the previous visits, so was not likely to be looking for a potential cause. Pain, or fear of pain, is probably the most common cause of this type of aggressive reaction from a dog. X-rays of hips and other joints, along with a more thorough hands on exam, may be in order. Potential physical causes of aggressive behaviors should always be ruled out first, before seeking behavioral modification.

If the aggressive behavior is indeed a behavioral issue only, then you would be best off hiring a knowledgable canine behaviorist to come into your home and see first hand what leads to this behavior. It could be any number of things going on within the home dynamics.. but again, without a lot more specific info it is not something that can begin to be dealt with via the net. I would recommend that your second step (after the vet) should be to contact your local kennel clubs for a referral (York KC, Lancaster KC, Harrisburg KC should all be good sources for info on reputable behaviorists in our area). Make certain to deal with someone with experience dealing with aggression issues & behavior modification specifically, and not just any dog trainer. Yes, some things can be resolved simply by consistancy in how you interact with your dog, and re-training (the 'NILIF' approach often helps tremendously). But not all aggression issues are that simple, and you really need someone who knows what they are looking for to help you determine the cause of your dog's snapping, so that you can take the appropriate approach to resolve the issue.

Best wishes! And good for you, for taking steps to attempt to correct this behavior first... rather than immediately dumping the dog back into the system.

 

[littlelulu33]

Been there done that. We adopted a Jack Russell he was such a great dog with us for over a year. He was like a child to us, at the time we did not have DD. After about a year or so he changed. It when certain family members would visit ( the same ones that he saw before) and he would show teeth, never bit. We also left on a short trip and left him with a dog sitter who he also knew. Well the dog sitter had company one day and our dog would not allow them into the house. He got out was standing on the porch and growled, showed teeth and looked like he was going to attack. She had a had time getting him back into the house and then was worried for her safety. When we got home he bit me. That week we took him to a dog behaviorist she suggested a Gentle Leader Dog Training Collar, she said for him to wear it at all times and it will show him who is in control us not him. We saw her a few times to work with him. Over a couple of months he seemed to be doing a little better, just could not have company or the dog would have to go to my parents or in his crate. Well one night DH was not home and we are having a good day and all of a sudden he went into attack mode on me, he latched on to my hand, I was scared to death and he did have on the Gentle Leader Dog Training Collar. I got free and lock myself in the bedroom and call DH and the behaviorist. This is the news that you are not going to want to hear, but the behaviorist said we needed to have him put down. She said that she had never hear of a dog biting with the Gentle Leader on and it was towards the owner. DH and I were thinking of kids about 2 years from then and thought we could never have them play together. Also I was scared to walk in the door--not knowing what dog I was going to get the sweet playful dog that I loved like a child or the dog that would attack me and that I could not love. DH and I made the hardest decision that we ever made and that was to have him put down. The behaviorist said that we did everything that we could and sometimes something is just not right in their head and nothing could fix it. DH and I cried for days over the decision, but we knew it would not be fair for us to give him away and have it on our mind that he did this to another family.
PM me if you have any questions.
On a happy note a few weeks after Rosco was put down we got a new puppy who is a great dog---we love him very much.

 

[Mel6197]

We LOVE that show

And I know they are casting in the USA. She has done miricles with some NASTy UK dogs,

 

[NiftyJ88]

I'm in PA, Lehigh Valley area also, and I had a dog behaviorist come to my house. It was pricy, but well worth it. He wasn't there to train the dog, he was there to teach me how to deal with misbehavior when I adopted an 8 month old dog. I don't have a perfect dog, but he is a good dog and a better dog since the training.
Try to find a behaviorist because you may be instigating the attacks with your body language.
Also, as Cesar Millan would advise you, walk your dog every day and make him behave on the leash. It requires you be the pack leader and your dog will respect you more. Also, when we feed our dogs, we make them stay outside the kitchen while we are getting it ready, and when we put the dishes on the floor, they do not eat until they are told to.

 

[goofy4tink]

Been there done that. We adopted a Jack Russell he was such a great dog with us for over a year. He was like a child to us, at the time we did not have DD. After about a year or so he changed. It when certain family members would visit ( the same ones that he saw before) and he would show teeth, never bit. We also left on a short trip and left him with a dog sitter who he also knew. Well the dog sitter had company one day and our dog would not allow them into the house. He got out was standing on the porch and growled, showed teeth and looked like he was going to attack. She had a had time getting him back into the house and then was worried for her safety. When we got home he bit me. That week we took him to a dog behaviorist she suggested a Gentle Leader Dog Training Collar, she said for him to wear it at all times and it will show him who is in control us not him. We saw her a few times to work with him. Over a couple of months he seemed to be doing a little better, just could not have company or the dog would have to go to my parents or in his crate. Well one night DH was not home and we are having a good day and all of a sudden he went into attack mode on me, he latched on to my hand, I was scared to death and he did have on the Gentle Leader Dog Training Collar. I got free and lock myself in the bedroom and call DH and the behaviorist. This is the news that you are not going to want to hear, but the behaviorist said we needed to have him put down. She said that she had never hear of a dog biting with the Gentle Leader on and it was towards the owner. DH and I were thinking of kids about 2 years from then and thought we could never have them play together. Also I was scared to walk in the door--not knowing what dog I was going to get the sweet playful dog that I loved like a child or the dog that would attack me and that I could not love. DH and I made the hardest decision that we ever made and that was to have him put down. The behaviorist said that we did everything that we could and sometimes something is just not right in their head and nothing could fix it. DH and I cried for days over the decision, but we knew it would not be fair for us to give him away and have it on our mind that he did this to another family.
PM me if you have any questions.
On a happy note a few weeks after Rosco was put down we got a new puppy who is a great dog---we love him very much.

Can't imagine why it's so hard to understand how a dog can bite while having a Gentle Leader on. It's got nothing to do with his mouth. It's just like a halter on a horse. Many people did stop and ask why my beautiful golden was muzzled though. I would then stick my hand in the dogs mouth to show it wasn't a muzzle.

A dog needs to be exercised, especially a 'working breed'. If they don't have a job to do, they just get nutty. You're doing a great job so far. But, be sure to call in a professional. You and the dog need all the help you can get. Biting is serious business. It's the one thing I feel strongly about calling in the pros for. Otherwise, you're asking for trouble.