OT- carseat experts please weigh in- update pg 3 thanks

Lisa loves Pooh said:
I know you don't want to provide discipline advice...

Sometimes it isn't fair but has got to be.

Yep - I tell my kids "life isn't fair" but they are 8 and 10. Honestly my 4yo nephew is a doll and just setting a great example so I know she wouldn't want to punish him for behaving.

But I do know what you mean.

Lisa - what happened to the beautiful picture of your dd's? It made me smile!

TJ
 
And we have a Winner.....http://www.buckleupnc.org/using_harnessing.cfm

I knew something had to be out there "official" addressing this topic.

provide this to your SIL---she can try the tips and see if they work! It will be better than modifying the straps. The daughter could be so diligent that behavior modification assistance from the ped. or a psychologist might be warranted.




Is any model of seat or type of harness escape-proof?
Not completely. Some children seem to be able to get out of anything. This usually occurs during the natural stage when they are becoming more active and independent and learning to stand and manipulate things with their hands.

What can you do? If you are buying a seat, look for one which a buckle that is very hard for a child to reach. Otherwise, keep the harness system adjusted for a snug fit and use the shoulder strap retainer clip over the child's chest.

You also must be patient, firm and consistent, letting your child know that the car doesn't go unless he is in his Seat. Do not start the car until he settles down, and stop at a safe spot along the roadside if he gets out when the car is underway. Positive reinforcement is also crucial, such as small rewards for good behavior; short "training" trips to favorite spots; and dramatic play in which he buckles up a favorite doll or stuffed animal for a real or "pretend" car ride.

You must be prepared to enforce your rules on every trip in the car. Parents have to be aware that they may be in a battle over this issue, and it can last for several weeks, but it is one that must be fought and won by the parents. Allowing a child to do it his way "just this once" makes it that much harder to get him to do it your way the next time.

Parents may find it helpful to consult with their pediatrician or a child psychologist to come up with a behavior modification plan that will work best for a particular child.
 
tjmw2727 said:
Yep - I tell my kids "life isn't fair" but they are 8 and 10. Honestly my 4yo nephew is a doll and just setting a great example so I know she wouldn't want to punish him for behaving.

But I do know what you mean.

Lisa - what happened to the beautiful picture of your dd's? It made me smile!

TJ

Still here..just posting without my signature.....

I do multiple replies sometimes--so though they are cute...not sure people want to see us all that much ;).
 
Lisa loves Pooh said:
How about a new car seat that has a bar that goes over the head--so even if the arms come out of the chest harness...she's still stuck in the car. When she stops...she can move back to her "big girl" car seat.

GREAT idea and thank you for your help and continued information. I really like this idea and am off to price them......

They are leaving MA to return home to FL at the end of the month and "auntie" is very concerned as is my sil.

TJ
 

Hi, I haven't done this myself but saw it mentioned on another board. Someone who had this problem simply put a small safety pin in the strap under the chest clip to keep it from moving down. You might want to check and see if this would be considered "safe" to do of course before you tell your SIL to try it. I personally thought the pp's suggestion of using puffy paint was a good one. How would that damage the integrity of the straps? I guess I'm looking at this from a more pragmatic POV. Which is worse, having a child escape the car seat and being severely injured or the infintessimally slight (IMO) possibility that some puffy paint is somehow going to cause the straps not to work. JMHO. Please don't flame me! :)

I'm just thankful that my ds sits happily in his car seat and I haven't had to worry about this issue yet.
 
Carseat, not parenting advise as requested: :)
Hey! My DD used to do the same thing, she was able to slide her top out of the restraints, and no ammount of tightening straps, bribes, threats or anything would work. I was looking at Toys R Us one day, and the had a "Child Proof" clippy thing(don't recall the technical name for it) that had to be squeezed for it to slide or unbuckle. I was going to get it, but it was time for DS to move up into the forward facing, and DD was big enough for a positioning booster, so I can't tell you how it works.
 
iheartdisney said:
Carseat, not parenting advise as requested: :)
Hey! My DD used to do the same thing, she was able to slide her top out of the restraints, and no ammount of tightening straps, bribes, threats or anything would work. I was looking at Toys R Us one day, and the had a "Child Proof" clippy thing(don't recall the technical name for it) that had to be squeezed for it to slide or unbuckle. I was going to get it, but it was time for DS to move up into the forward facing, and DD was big enough for a positioning booster, so I can't tell you how it works.

Yeah - I will look for this on. Off to the BRU website for a "squeezey thing" to use until my sil can "teach" my dear neice to day put.

TJ
 
tjmw2727 said:
My neice is just under 2years old and about 24 lbs and currently in a convertable carseat. It is the type that can be used both front and rear facing and up to 40lbs. She is front facing and constantly getting out of the seat while my sil is driving.

My neice can lower the chest clip enough to roll her shoulders forward and get out of the 5 pt harness. My sil has tried everything to get her to stay in but she is really too young to understand.

My sil thinks that if she can keep the chest clip in the proper place my neice won't be able to escape. Our only thought is to tie a knot in the harness just under the proper place for the chest clip so my neice can't slide it down.

Obviously my sil is concerned with compromising the safety of the seat - which of course does no good at all when dn escapes. It has gotten to the point where she can't take a car ride as dn is out of the seat every 5 minutes.

Is there a product she could try to keep the child in the seat? Unfortuantely, they don't have alot of $$ right now so buying a new seat is a last resort, of course they will do it if there is no other alternative.

FWIW - my sil has tried rewards for staying in the seat but the comprehension just isn't there yet.

Any ideas or advice would be greatly appreciated.

TIA
TJ

My daughter is turning 2 on Saturday and about 2 months ago went through this stage. It wasn't as bad as your SIL's since it wasn't all the time and a stern no and she would put it back and I would then retighten the belt. She was in a Britax Roundabout and it was tight. But even just a little room and if they are capable of sliding that piece down they are out in a jiffy.

I can't help you since my daughter stopped doing it pretty quickly and never became a habitual problem. Although my 3.5 year old started copying her except that she can actually loosen the strap herself and tighten it back up! She stopped once I got her sister in control!

But I just wanted to offer some support. When they are under 2 they are pretty flexible.
 
Lisa loves Pooh said:
How about a new car seat that has a bar that goes over the head--so even if the arms come out of the chest harness...she's still stuck in the car. When she stops...she can move back to her "big girl" car seat.
Oh no, I'm sorry, that's a very bad idea. First, because overhead shield seats are not as safe as 5-pt harnesses. And this mom seems to be very safety conscious, so I'm sure she wouldn't want to move her daughter into a less-safe seat. And second, because when the child gets out of the harness, even if she remains behind the bar, she is unrestrained. That type of seat is meant to be used with the harness, and the bar alone would not restrain her. In a crash she could easily be ejected from the seat, or she could hit the bar/shield with such force that it would cause severe injury. I know of at least one child who was killed by hitting the shield even with the harness on. Imagine the force if she were unrestrained by a harness.
 
tlbwriter said:
Oh no, I'm sorry, that's a very bad idea. First, because overhead shield seats are not as safe as 5-pt harnesses. And this mom seems to be very safety conscious, so I'm sure she wouldn't want to move her daughter into a less-safe seat. And second, because when the child gets out of the harness, even if she remains behind the bar, she is unrestrained. That type of seat is meant to be used with the harness, and the bar alone would not restrain her. In a crash she could easily be ejected from the seat, or she could hit the bar/shield with such force that it would cause severe injury. I know of at least one child who was killed by hitting the shield even with the harness on. Imagine the force if she were unrestrained by a harness.


I disagree on the safety equality--as when the girl isn't restrained at all. She's going to get ejected in either case. It isn't to replace the parents supervision....but be more of an "escape" deterrant.

Everything I have found says to add NOTHING after-market to the seat.

I wonder if you can use those potato chip bag clips and just clip them to the seats (not the hair clippy looking ones--the flat ones that snap.).
 
tlbwriter said:
Oh no, I'm sorry, that's a very bad idea. First, because overhead shield seats are not as safe as 5-pt harnesses. And this mom seems to be very safety conscious, so I'm sure she wouldn't want to move her daughter into a less-safe seat. And second, because when the child gets out of the harness, even if she remains behind the bar, she is unrestrained. That type of seat is meant to be used with the harness, and the bar alone would not restrain her. In a crash she could easily be ejected from the seat, or she could hit the bar/shield with such force that it would cause severe injury. I know of at least one child who was killed by hitting the shield even with the harness on. Imagine the force if she were unrestrained by a harness.

Yep - point taken and IMHO it would be harder to detect if she was out of the harness as the bar would be in the way. Especially when looking in the rearview - thanks for the heads up.

I will likely be offline for the weekend so thanks to all who responded. I will see dear sil and see how things are going with the carseat rules, instruction and enforcement while in the house is going, :_)! When she masters it in the home than she may be allowed to ride in the car again.

Thanks for all the advice and again = don't take a non response as me not caring. I will update anyone interested on Tuesday or Wednesday.

TJ
 
Here's another suggestion I found:

Rene, my 18 month old grandson can escape from any carseat. A short trip to the grocery store usually requires I pull over a good half dozen times and return him (thrashing) to his seat.

I've tried several designs, including the five-point safety harness which was fitted to him by someone who runs workshops on car seat safety. He was out of that one within three minutes of purchasing the thing.

I have tried distracting him with books, toys, and treats. I have tried threatening him, punishing him (with everything short of a cattle prod). I'd have duct-taped him into the seat by now, but the police department told me it isn't allowed. Considered abuse and makes it too difficult to get a child out of the car quickly if needed.

I have spent beaucoup bucks at Home Depot and Jo Ann's Fabrics on "stuff" to fashion belts and harnesses which I hoped would keep the little guy seated and allow the car seat to do its job. "Teeny Houdini" could free himself within minutes from every one. BUT I finally came up with something that works.

Have you ever seen hospital chest/vest restraints? They are a vest that crosses the chest diagnally from chest to waist, with straps or ties at the waist that can then be tied to hold the wearer in a seat.

I altered a size 2 vest (sewing) pattern so that the front continued to the side waist (instead of meeting at the center waist as usual) and added ties with an adjustable clip so I could tighten the ties as much as needed. I also put belt loops at the side waist to thread the ties through. (Hope this explanation makes sense.)

It takes an extra minute to slip the vest over his head and then tie it over the armrests of his seat, but he can't wiggle out of it, and he has to stay seated--and therefore, safe.

He protested the first time he discovered he couldn't escape, but then adjusted to wearing it without too much protest. After a few wearings, we were able to discontinue using it!!! He must have figured it was easier to just stay seated.

Go here 155 posts of people with the same problem...you might find something.
http://www.babycenter.com/comments/toddler/toddlersafety/1201454?i=0

Evidently--duct tape is a no-no.
 
And this most recent idea would be what is more commonly known as a strait-jacket. I'm not sure how that's any different than duct-tape, myself. Most kids would scream endless bloody murder if confined in a strait-jacket.

I really think that something that ties to the seat in addition to the seat's harness could become VERY dangerous in a situation where you had to get the child out of the seat quickly, such as rolling into a body of water, or if the car caught fire. I have to think that's much more of a risk to the child's odds of surviving an accident than using some sort of block against the chest clip. (And having grown up in bayou country, I keep escape hammers clipped to the floor in all our cars; I know what it is to have to get out of a sinking car.)

The reason I went with the puff-paint was that it does still allow the chest clip to slide if there is real force behind it, which I was told by a safety consultant is an important thing in certain types of impacts. (I'm not saying that this is a reason why anyone elso should use my solution, I'm simply saying why I decided it was the best option I felt was practical for me. By the way, we did try several brands of carseat; I tried him in all my friend's and co-worker's cars -- he slid that clip every time, and he was still rear-facing. It made us nervous wrecks to drive with him, because we spent all our time watching the rearview mirror instead of the road; tell me that's not the riskiest situation of all.)

As to simply not moving the car without Jr. strapped in properly, that wasn't an option for us. We had to get to work (in opposite directions) and he had to be transported to daycare. You cannot always get out of your car every 1/4 mile in the midst of heavy rush-hour highway traffic to re-secure a child in the back seat; too great a risk of being hit or rear-ended by another driver where the road has no shoulder.

Sometimes you have to pick the lesser evil and live with the choice.
 
First of all, please be aware that any modifications made to a car seat not only void the manufacturer's warranty and make them not at all liable should the seat fail in a crash, it would turn the child into a crash test dummy since the seat was not tested with those modifications to see if it still meets appropriate federal standards.

I have experience with several different types and brands of seats. IMHO if the chest clip was place where it should be (just below the child's chin, level with the arm pits) and the straps are as tight as they can be, both according to the manufacturer's instructions, the child would have extreme difficulty pulling down the chest clip, she just wouldn't have the leverage. 85% of child safety seats are installed and/or used incorrectly, and I suspect that this is one of them. The mother should have a local child passenger safety technician come to her house and check not only the installation of the seat but how the mother restrains the child in the seat and I'm sure she'll find the straps are no where near as tight as the can and should be and the chest clip is too low.

All of this aside, it really is a control and discipline issue that should be addressed before they leave the house. If the child is getting out of the carseat this easily at age 2, it's a sign of worse times to come.



HTH
 
Lisa loves Pooh said:
I disagree on the safety equality--as when the girl isn't restrained at all. She's going to get ejected in either case. It isn't to replace the parents supervision....but be more of an "escape" deterrant.
Of course you're right that being unrestrained in her 5 pt harness is just as bad as being unrestrained in an overhead shield seat (OHS). But when she is buckled, the 5-pt harness is safer. And being safer when unbuckled is a moot point, since obviously this mom isn't going to drive with her child unbuckled. I thought your original post sounded like you were suggesting that the OHS could replace the parent sitting next to her, because she would still be restrained even if she got out of the harness. If I misunderstood you, I apologize.
 
Thanks to all who responded problem is solved, no modifications, and no gadgets My sil bought a new CRS for my nephew. It has the 5 point he is uisng now, then it then converts to a booster with belt positioning clips on the side. HE loves it and it fits him well.

His seat was a convertable CRS but a newer model than the one dsil was using for my neice. She took it out of the car, cleaned it and adjusted it for dear neice and the chest clip is tight enough (without modification) that she can't slide it at all and can't escape. We went on a day trip today with lots of driving and only about 4 seconds of tears. Once she realized she could not escape she relaxed and played with her car toys and fell asleep!!

Insead of investing in a new CRS for the almost 2yo my sil thought it made more sense to get the 4yo something he could use for a long time since his was fairly new and met the guidelines for my neice. IIRC it is only about 1 year old.

Thanks for the help and advice and now "auntie" will feel much better when mid August rolls around and they are on the road from MA to FL.

TJ
 
tjmw2727 said:
Thanks to all who responded problem is solved, no modifications, and no gadgets My sil bought a new CRS for my nephew. It has the 5 point he is uisng now and can use to 65 lbs. Then it then converts to a booster with belt positioning clips on the side. HE loves it and it fits him well.
That's great that your SIL found a way to keep the little escape artist in place. :goodvibes But I'm afraid she's confused about her new seat. The seat you describe does not exist - at least not in the U.S. or Canada. There is no carseat that goes up to 65 lb harnessed and converts to a booster. The seats that go up to 65 lb are only made by Britax at this point, and run around $200. They are for harnessed use only and cannot be used as boosters later. There are plenty of harnessed seats that convert to booster use, and they are available in a wide range of prices, but none of them can be used with the harness above 40 lb. They have weight limits of 80 or 100 lb, but that's for booster use - they all have to be converted to booster use after 40 lb. Perhaps your SIL saw both types of seats when she was shopping and got them mixed up in her head?
 
Wanted to add that there are a couple of seats that would meet your description, but neither has been released yet. If your sister managed to get her hands on one somehow, I know a lot of curious carseat fanatics who would love to hear about it! :teeth:
 
Actually that is not correct I have a 5 pnt harness that the straps will go to 60lbs it is made by a french compnay and I got it at baby depot and it does convert to a belt positioning booster it is imported by a company in North Carolina, It is a Nania Airway we bought 2 years ago. Did a google on it and there are others that go to 50 lbs .
 












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