OT, but do you think God punishes us financially?

[sk!mom]

What's the name of that preacher in Texas who's making such a name for himself? QUOTE]


Joel Osteen, maybe?

 

[TheLittleRoo]

Joel Osteen, definitely. I used to live in Houston and heard him preach once in person. He is a very powerful and moving speaker. But I disagree with his perspective on God wanting us to succeed in this life. God's idea of success probably has very little to do with our ideas of financial success. Otherwise, Christ would have been born into a wealthy family and been the triumphant next earthly king the rest of the world was anticipating.

I do get sideways with pastors who preach anything like this kind of "life is a bed of roses" mentality because it is not biblically based. In fact, it's pretty much a known fact that you will be asked to give up yourself daily for Christ, and that means forsaking the world and all its trappings. Not that we all do such a great job of not falling into the temptation of nice things, but...ideally!

Plus, that doesn't reconcile with so many hurting people who are left to wonder if their faith is weak or God doesn't have a plan for them because they're poor or have a terminal disease, or have lost a child, and on and on.

 

[dunbarfamily]

I do not belive our God is punishing. Sometimes it is easy to think that He is, especially when things go wrong. Probably most of us, at one time or another, has thought or said something like, "God, WHY did you let this happen"? God doesn't let or even want bad things to happen. God loves all of his children unconditionally. God has given us free will because he loves us.

Many hugs to you, and will you have the peace that He wants all of us to have. You will only find it in Him.

 

[lemondog]

Our family has been throught a horrible time lately. Just horrible. If I thought God was doing it to punish us, I don't know if i could survive. Rather, I think He has a plan. We don't always understand it at the time, and it may be awhile before we do, but it's His plan nonetheless. I have faith that He is taking care of us and that everything...even the most horrible things...happens for a reason.

 

[Kickapoo Joie Juice]

Well, I'm not religious so feel free to ignore my post!

I don't believe we are nessesarily being punished when bad things happen to us. I do believe in Karma, if you do something bad, something in turn will happen to you (same with doing good things, a good thing will happen to you). But, I also believe that just because something bad is happening, it doesn't always mean it's karma bitting you in the butt. There is such a thing as bad luck and coincidence, after all. If you've truely searched your heart and can't find anything you've done or are doing that might be causing God/Karma to be upset with you, then it's likely just rotten bad luck. In short, poop happens!

Unfortunatly, there isn't much we can do when it's just plain ol' Murphy's Law that's causing our lives to be turned inside out, other than to hang on and do our best to weather the storm. In your case, I'd do my best to focus on the relationship with your spouse, if you can come together to fight all the other crap that's happening in your lives, you'll be much better off for it. Pain shared is pain halved, and if each of you know the other is there for comfort and support, it will help you get through all of your other problems.

good luck!

I would NEVER ignore your post because your religion differs from mine!

I treat it with the same respect and thoughtfulness.

Ok, if you were a cannibal driving a hummer I might be a little suspect of your POV, but otherwise you're cool with me

 

[KikiFan]

I absolutely do not believe that God punishes us financially. We have free will and we sometimes punish ourselves financially! As others have pointed out, sometimes we make poor choices and we suffer the consequences of those choices.

But if I can offer another perspective. I truly believe that God always wants to give us the kingdom, but we aren't always willing to accept it. Sometimes our consciousness and faith aren't at a level to allow us to recieve all that God wants to give us. Not because we're bad and need to be punished, but because we are too focused on earthly concerns.

There's that bible story of the woman whose husband has died leaving her in debt and all she has is one pot of oil. Elisha tells her to borrow all the pots and jars she can find and to fill them from her single pot of oil and she does. I believe that the pots and jars represent her expanding consciousness of God's good. The more pots she had, the more oil came from the single jar. When she ran out of jars (consciousness) she ran out of oil.

I'm a self-employed, single parent in a luxury business. I know exactly the kinds of cycles your experiencing. But what I've found is that when I'm focusing on all the things that are going wrong, or could go wrong, things only get worse. When I let go and Let God, things start working out in ways I couldn't have imagined in my wildest dreams.

When I'm going through a dry spell like yours I do a couple of things to shift my consciousness.

Tithe if you haven't been. But here's the important part - tithe gladly - with faith that God is taking care of your needs. I do believe in the rule of 10% but if you can't give that much with a glad heart, start out a little lower. It's not the money that you give that's important - it's how you give that's most important. imo - I know some will disagree.

I sit down and challange myself to write a list of 50 things I'm grateful for. They don't all have to be huge, major things. Sometimes, it's little things like a rose that's blooming in the yard. Or the beautiful weather. Just shift your focus to all the good things that you really do have in your life.

I find a way to do something nice for someone, look for someone I can help. It reminds me that I really don't have it so bad.

I clear space in my life for good things to come into my life. Clear out a closet, a drawer. Take the stuff to Goodwill. Give it away! Help someone who is worse off then you. Declare to the universe that this space is to be filled with good things!

Whenever you start to worry -stop it! Affirm to yourself that God has never failed you and never will. Don't even allow yourself to think the worst. God has never failed you!

Most of all, remember that your job is not your source. God is your true source. The job is just a conduit of God's good and just one of them. If you keep thinking that the job is the source then you cut God out of the equation and you limit God and yourself to that one source. God is much more creative then that. If you expand your thinking you'll find that God finds many amazing ways to give your good!

Also shift your thinking about your bills. Instead of thinking, "Ugh I've got to pay the phone bill" try thinking, "Thank you God for this bill and all it represents! Thank you for the contact with my family and friends! Thank you for my internets access. Thank you for all that this bill represents!" If you see your bills as a blessing instead of a burdon they truly do become easier to pay.

OP I hope that these things help you. They've been so important and life altering for me. When I stick with my spiritual tools they do work!

 

[Chicago526]

I would NEVER ignore your post because your religion differs from mine!

I treat it with the same respect and thoughtfulness.

Ok, if you were a cannibal driving a hummer I might be a little suspect of your POV, but otherwise you're cool with me

Nope, no cannibals here! And I won't let DH buy a Hummer.

Seriously, it was a religious question and since I'm obviously not an expert, I wanted to put that disclaimer in. I thought it might be perceived like a person with no kids giving parenting advice (and I do that, too! ).

 

[kristilew]

Our family has been throught a horrible time lately. Just horrible. If I thought God was doing it to punish us, I don't know if i could survive. Rather, I think He has a plan. We don't always understand it at the time, and it may be awhile before we do, but it's His plan nonetheless. I have faith that He is taking care of us and that everything...even the most horrible things...happens for a reason.

"For I know the plans I have for you," says the Lord. "They are plans for good and not for disaster, to give you a future and a hope." Jer. 29:11

God IS good, all the time. He is all about the relationship. I believe He allows difficulty in our lives to give us a chance to lean only on Him. It is easy to feel blessed when everything is going well. Praising in the rain is the hard part, but the part that lets us truly become free in Him. When you can say, as in Psalm 124, "if the Lord had not been on our side...." about some difficulty through which you have lived, you are that much closer to walking with Him.

 

[Jynohn]

I absolutely do not believe that God punishes us financially. We have free will and we sometimes punish ourselves financially! As others have pointed out, sometimes we make poor choices and we suffer the consequences of those choices.

But if I can offer another perspective. I truly believe that God always wants to give us the kingdom, but we aren't always willing to accept it. Sometimes our consciousness and faith aren't at a level to allow us to recieve all that God wants to give us. Not because we're bad and need to be punished, but because we are too focused on earthly concerns.

There's that bible story of the woman whose husband has died leaving her in debt and all she has is one pot of oil. Elisha tells her to borrow all the pots and jars she can find and to fill them from her single pot of oil and she does. I believe that the pots and jars represent her expanding consciousness of God's good. The more pots she had, the more oil came from the single jar. When she ran out of jars (consciousness) she ran out of oil.

I'm a self-employed, single parent in a luxury business. I know exactly the kinds of cycles your experiencing. But what I've found is that when I'm focusing on all the things that are going wrong, or could go wrong, things only get worse. When I let go and Let God, things start working out in ways I couldn't have imagined in my wildest dreams.

When I'm going through a dry spell like yours I do a couple of things to shift my consciousness.

Tithe if you haven't been. But here's the important part - tithe gladly - with faith that God is taking care of your needs. I do believe in the rule of 10% but if you can't give that much with a glad heart, start out a little lower. It's not the money that you give that's important - it's how you give that's most important. imo - I know some will disagree.

I sit down and challange myself to write a list of 50 things I'm grateful for. They don't all have to be huge, major things. Sometimes, it's little things like a rose that's blooming in the yard. Or the beautiful weather. Just shift your focus to all the good things that you really do have in your life.

I find a way to do something nice for someone, look for someone I can help. It reminds me that I really don't have it so bad.

I clear space in my life for good things to come into my life. Clear out a closet, a drawer. Take the stuff to Goodwill. Give it away! Help someone who is worse off then you. Declare to the universe that this space is to be filled with good things!

Whenever you start to worry -stop it! Affirm to yourself that God has never failed you and never will. Don't even allow yourself to think the worst. God has never failed you!

Most of all, remember that your job is not your source. God is your true source. The job is just a conduit of God's good and just one of them. If you keep thinking that the job is the source then you cut God out of the equation and you limit God and yourself to that one source. God is much more creative then that. If you expand your thinking you'll find that God finds many amazing ways to give your good!

Also shift your thinking about your bills. Instead of thinking, "Ugh I've got to pay the phone bill" try thinking, "Thank you God for this bill and all it represents! Thank you for the contact with my family and friends! Thank you for my internets access. Thank you for all that this bill represents!" If you see your bills as a blessing instead of a burdon they truly do become easier to pay.

OP I hope that these things help you. They've been so important and life altering for me. When I stick with my spiritual tools they do work!

I agree 100% with your post. I think sometimes we get in a rut, and put negative thoughts out there in the universe, and somehow that's what we get in return. I once did this myself. Years ago, I felt very overwhelmed with my financial situation and thought to myself, "no matter what I do, I never seem to get ahead." and it was a self-fulfilling prophecy.

There finally came a point where I decided to change my thinking. Now I remind myself every day how fortunate I am to have a roof over my head, that my children can grow up in a safe area, that we have good food to eat, medical care, etc. When a bill comes up, instead of getting upset about it, I try to be grateful that I'm able to somehow pay it. For example, when I mail my car payment, I remind myself how lucky I am to have reliable transportation.

I can't tell you how much this has changed my life. Since I started thinking this way, not only has my life been much less stressful, but our entire financial picture has turned around. It's almost like I needed to be taught a lesson that in order to have more, I need to remind myself every day to be grateful for what I already have.

 

[doubletrouble_vb]

I don't believe God does very much about punishing OR rewarding people. It's one of the reasons I have a very tough time with church. So many preach the gospel of "favor". Financial favor for some is disfavor for someone else. Money is a creation of man.

 

[crisi]

I think that if good luck is a reward from God, it is only consistant to believe bad luck is punishment from God. Therefore, I don't believe God has anything to do with luck - good or bad. Sometimes you are rewarded or punished based on your choices, and sometimes that's just luck as well - I know some lousy human beings who are darn lucky and some great human beings who can't catch a break.

 

[LoveBWVVBR]

I'm not religious, but my answer to this would be a resounding NO. I don't think God/the universe/whatever punishes us. I think that crappy financial things just sometimes happen. I hope that things look up for you soon!

 

[Karenj2]

I don't think that God punishes people for not being "Christian" enough (i.e., teaching Sunday School or tithing) because we are His through grace alone (there isn't anything that we can DO to "earn" our way to heaven).

However, I *do* feel that God will occasionally correct us, and He is a jealous God - he doesn't want us worshipping other "gods", and all too often when our lives are completely rosy, we do that. (i.e., worshipping money, status, material wealth, etc.) Here's my long story:

DH and I had a completely "perfect" upper middle class life (with the exception of not having kids, for which I was a complete WHINER to God about). He was in sales, and I had a good, steady job. God wasn't the center of our lives though, our house and our lifestyle were our idols... Then I lost my job. We stumbled a bit, but didn't change our lifestyle.

Then DH had severe depression (he thought constantly about suicide, but didn't act on it, thank God!) He fought it for so long (partly because he was the breadwinner, partly because he felt he could just "work through it"), but finally he had to go on Long Term Disability (at 2/3 his normal pay). Doing all of the calculations, we thought we'd be in the red in 3 months... (Added to that, of course was my fears about DH.) We both turned towards God during this time - I clung to Him, and found comfort even during the hardest times. Looking back, I realize now that God had me let go from the company so that I could be there to care for DH.

God also got us through our financial troubles. I got a job once DH started to get better (with meds & Drs.) Once he was completely better, he got a new job at the company I worked for because his old job couldn't hire him back. Doing that was good for him (to get out of his former industry), but not great for us financially, because it was yet another paycut. God really put it on our hearts to let go of our house (our idol), so we put it up on the market.

About a month after putting our house on the market, DH saw a job opening for a new sales position (for a company he knows & respects) and applied for it, and got it. He's starting mid-May, and he's now making more than he ever has before. But this time, we're not going to worship the "almighty dollar"...

Anyway, if you've read this far, I'd like to add a tip that I got from someone here - the budgeting program from www.youneedabudget.com. If you aren't already doing it, you should budget, so that when the unexpected happens, it's less of a hit to your savings... (Also, their forum board is full of helpful people like here. A tip I had heard from that board re: tithing, is to start giving where you feel comfortable, then adding money each week/month until you've reached your tithe. It'll help you slowly get used to tithing.)

 

[happygirl]

Aww, I don't believe God so much punishes us but I think sometimes he puts things in perspective for us

 

[TheLittleRoo]

OK, I am in tears now... My husband just called to tell me he bought a new 2008 Dodge Charger for in excess of $20K before TT&L. As in, past tense, done deal. We have been arguing about the entire sale of our perfectly reliable 2001 Infiniti so he could get a car of his choice. I am not working now, so he feels like this is his "right" since he "earns" the money.

I tried to steer him toward another make/model/year that wouldn't be such a depreciation loss, but he stubbornly demanded a Dodge Charger. I thought we agreed he'd look for a low miles 2006 or 2007. Then he started in with wanting the bigger engine version (more money) as well as a brand new model (way more money). Now, he's gone and done both. And the kids and I will just have to live with more debt, and we don't even have the money in the bank to pay the car repairs on my 11 year old SUV...

I am so upset, I can't stop crying. I can't focus. I am selling whatever I can on Ebay or Craigslist, and even if I have a good run with that, it's TOTALLY DEVOURED by this new massive debt he's signed us into.

I hate this, I wish I wasn't married to him... I will never get out of this debt.

 

[crisi]

I hate this, I wish I wasn't married to him... I will never get out of this debt.

I'm so sorry. This isn't an issue with your God, this is an issue with your husband. Since you phrased it this way, why don't you call your pastor (if it weren't phrased this way, I'd recommend straight to the marriage therapist - but your pastor may be a better source for you). Your husband needs to understand that this is causing you enough stress that you regret your marriage. That isn't a way to live.

 

[mrsklamc]

My heart breaks for your marriage. I hope your husband is willing to listen to counsel but it sounds like he may not be.

The Bible does say that God disciplines those He loves (Proverbs 3:11-12), but I don't believe He disciplines you if you don't know what you are getting disciplined for. That wouldn't be fair, and I believe God is always fair even if we don't understand it at the time.

(on a side note DH believes that a lot of the world is set up so that the consequences are natural and God doesn't HAVE to punish you, which I can see in a lot of situations. But I digress.)

I agree, see if you can set up an appointment with your pastor. Prayers are with you!

 

[TheLittleRoo]

I can't go to my pastor... It's a very small church, and I've already "talked" to him anonymously before about adultery issues with my husband, which he counseled me that God has mercy for us all, and grace is what God gives us and we are to show it in our marriages if it's possible.

I can't help but wonder, maybe I'm supposed to leave. My marriage is a disaster, starting with the first day. Adultery, verbal abuse, you pretty much name it, I've lived through it. The only reason I stay is financial. I want to stay home with my kids while they're little, and I can't do that if I divorce him.

Maybe this IS God's way of taking away every last reason to stay. He mocks my religion, so we are unequally yoked, and I already have a Biblical ground for divorce as allowed for in the Bible. Could this even be possible that God is zapping every last reason to stay to get my attention so I leave????

 

[crisi]

I don't know - my vision of God is probably very different than yours. But my vision of how human beings need to treat each other says that any God who would condemn you for leaving an abusive, unfaithful marriage is not a God worth believing in - and it sounds like your God doesn't expect you to stay either.

The number for the National Domestic Violence Hotline is 1-800-799-SAFE (7233). I'd encourage you to ask your pastor for help getting out - and if he can't give it - find a pastor who can in a community that will. You'll need a community to get through this and it sounds like you are a person who finds strength in a religious one. Also, friends and family - even the people your husband has cut you off from, they are waiting for you to call and say "I left."

Best wishes.

 

[bookgirl]

I believe in Karma..but sometimes "stuff" happens.