OT: Am I a Bad Catholic?

[disneyjunkie99]

I hope I don't start a huge debate here and I'm almost scared to post this but I'm just wondering what other people think. Am I a bad Catholic if I eat meat on Fridays during lent? I go to mass every sunday, am involved in a lot of things at church but I just can't get into the "no meat on fridays". Just wondering what other Catholic's think.

I think that if you have to ask this question, then you already know the answer.

 

[princessmom29]

It was a joke My accountant is a wonderful person who also is a friend. I was just letting the OP know that they weren't a bad Catholic in my opinion.

Oh, sorry! I guess that is the danger of reading things on message boards and not hearing them said.

 

[lucas43068]

oops..

 

[micheleq]

Oh, sorry! I guess that is the danger of reading things on message boards and not hearing them said.

No problem at all I also could have (should have) written a more straightforward post.

 

[MouseEarsJenny]

Oh, and you might look up a little ditty in the Bible that goes something like this: Thou hypocrite, cast out first the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

My honest opinion is that anyone who thinks they can reinterpret restrictions has bigger problems than deciding whether to eat meat on Fridays. A look at the 7 Deadly Sins and the 7 Cardinal Virtues might be in line.

And to that I'd add, any priest who recommends a candidate for Confirmation knowing that said person does not in fact embrace basic church doctrine, covenants, rites, and rituals should be taken to task by his bishop (at the very least)!

Um... perhaps you should reexamine posting judgemental statements in the same post as a Biblical passage about not being judgemental. It seems a bit inconsistent.

As I am not Catholic, perhaps it is not my place to speak to the OP's question. But the verse that occurs to me is "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.” -Ephesians 2:8,9 Being a "good Catholic" or a good anything (American Baptist in my case) is not really the key to salvation - only by the grace of God are we absolved of sin, whether that be breaking a fast, or breaking a Commandment. If you have concerns about a church doctrine, address it to your church leadership. If you believe whatever you're doing to be a sin, address it to God for forgiveness and help to resist temptation. If you want to find the best place to watch Wishes, then check here!

 

[Mouse House Mama]

Op I don't think you are a bad Catholic for eating meat on Fridays. In fact I don't think you are any worse of a Catholic than those that are condeming you for it and telling you to find another church. IMO that is not a very Catholic attitude adn something I find more serious than a hamburger on a friday. YMMV.

 

[Kit'smommy]

I agree with MouseEarsJenny. I also am a Baptist, and I believe that I am saved by my faith alone. However, there are things I believe I should do and not do that are a result of my walk with God.

If I am unsure on what is appropriate for me as a Christian, I look to my Bible. While I might look to a pastor, etc on interpreting something, I ultimately believe it is up to me to pray about it and decide what God would want me to do. If I really am questioning is something is right or wrong, I think that it is the small, still voice telling me I am wrong.

While I do appreciate the opinions of others, I ask myself how I will feel on judgment day when I answer to my Father for my sins of omission and commission.

 

[AustinTink]

My son goes to Catholic school. I'm deathly afraid I'll forget and send him a turkey sandwich in his lunchbox next Friday. I'd be sent to detention!

 

[ScrapperBelle]

Just move to Louisiana! Meatless Fridays are just part of the culture here. I'm not Catholic, but grew up in a mostly Catholic area. Even though I went to public school, we were never served meat on Fridays. I adopted meatless Fridays by association. For some reason I still feel guilty if I eat meat on Friday.

 

[CRdisMom]

Our school too is meatless on Friday.

 

[kellyg403]

Growing up in the old days, we did no meat on fridays the whole year through...not just during Lent. As the rules have relaxes a little I *do* find it a sacrifice to not eat meat on Friday's during Lent. Simply because it is not a habit for me like it was growing up. Cheese pizza every friday for 18 years kinda makes you remember meatless Friday's!

I agree with others, its not about being a good/bad Catholic. I believe whole heartedly that we should examine our faith and that leads us to a much closer relationship with Christ. What is free will for if we don't stop and think about what we are doing? I prefer to think of myself as trying to always be spiritual as opposed to religous. I am not sure what a meatless Friday has to do with being more spiritual but for me its about resisting the temptation and making a committment and sticking to it as I am asked to do in all things. The right road is not the easiest thing comes up for me from time to time.

OP, while I understand where you are coming from, I think in all honesty that if you 'feel' like you should be guilty, you probably are simply from what you have been taught and grown up with. I would definitely be speaking to the priest, not for an excuse to do things your way but a definition of why you should be doing it. I don't believe in my heart, there is a religion out there that will be 100% what a person wants, but can be 100% what they need. I try not to pick and choose the parts I want to believe in, but sometimes I find myself questioning why. Think that is normal. We are human if nothing else. If you are alright with God on this issue it really is your business in the end. He is the only one who knows if you feel bad and if it is actually something you should feel bad about. I prefer much more to look to the heavens and let God know I am sorry, I am human, I didn't resist the temptation and ask for forgiveness. I am guessing he is the one I should be talking to since he is the only one capable of forgiving me!

Good Luck, there are some things I am not sure agree with too, but it doesn't mean I feel less like this is the religion for me. It has given me great comfort and a great relationship with Christ. I just don't agree with everything and at this point am thankful that I have been given the brain and thought process to monitor my own moral compass!

Kelly

 

[RMAMom]

I am pasteing this from the fisheaters website. I am posting to hopefully clear up a lot of confusion that I'm reading. I would also like to clarify that we (Catholics) are not only bound to abstaining on Fridays during Lent but on every Friday. That requirement was not lifted, it was decided that during the year (not during Lent) the requirement to abstain could be replaced by a pennance. As always your local Bishop has the Authority to absolve you from this. Just FYI for those interested.


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Fasting and Abstinence




Matthew 4:1-2: Then Jesus was led by the spirit into the desert, to be tempted by the devil. And when he had fasted forty days and forty nights, afterwards he was hungry.

Matthew 17:17-20: And Jesus rebuked him, and the devil went out of him, and the child was cured from that hour. Then came the disciples to Jesus secretly, and said: Why could not we cast him out? Jesus said to them: Because of your unbelief. For, amen I say to you, if you have faith as a grain of mustard seed, you shall say to this mountain: Remove from hence hither, and it shall remove: and nothing shall be impossible to you. But this kind is not cast out but by prayer and fasting.




In the time of Christ's Incarnation, practitioners of the Old Testament religion fasted or abstained on Mondays and Thursdays, but Christians opted to take Wednesdays (the day Our Lord was betrayed) and Fridays (the day Our Lord was crucified) as their penitential days.

Wednesdays and Fridays are still days of penance in most Eastern Catholic Churches (and among the Orthodox), but in the Roman Church, only Fridays, as memorials to the day our Lord was crucified, remain as weekly penitential days on which abstinence from meat and other forms of penance are expected as the norm. 1 From the 1983 Code of Canon Law:

Can. 1249 All Christ's faithful are obliged by divine law, each in his or her own way, to do penance. However, so that all may be joined together in a certain common practice of penance, days of penance are prescribed. On these days the faithful are in a special manner to devote themselves to prayer, to engage in works of piety and charity, and to deny themselves, by fulfilling their obligations more faithfully and especially by observing the fast and abstinence which the following canons prescribe.

Can. 1250 The days and times of penance for the universal Church are each Friday of the whole year and the season of Lent.

Can. 1251 Abstinence from meat, or from some other food as determined by the Episcopal Conference, is to be observed on all Fridays, unless a solemnity should fall on a Friday. Abstinence and fasting are to be observed on Ash Wednesday and Good Friday.

Can. 1252 The law of abstinence binds those who have completed their fourteenth year. The law of fasting binds those who have attained their majority, until the beginning of their sixtieth year. Pastors of souls and parents are to ensure that even those who by reason of their age are not bound by the law of fasting and abstinence, are taught the true meaning of penance.

Can. 1253 The Episcopal Conference can determine more particular ways in which fasting and abstinence are to be observed. In place of abstinence or fasting it can substitute, in whole or in part, other forms of penance, especially works of charity and exercises of piety.
Check with your local Bishops to see what you are bound to in your area. (Most traditional Catholics keep the Friday abstinence whether bound to by their local Bishops or not).

Other penitential days are listed in the table below. In this table, I give the fasting and abstinence practices for those who want to keep the older practices given for the Universal Church for use with the traditional calendar as it was in 1962. For informational purposes, I also give the requirements for those who follow the Novus Ordo calendar and the 1983 Code of Canon Law.

Note that if any of the Fasting and/or Abstinence Days falls on a Sunday or a first class Feast outside of Lent, the requirements (except for the Eucharistic Fast) are totally abrogated. Those who need to be excused from the obligations of fasting and abstaining for medical reasons (pregnancy, the demands of extraordinarily hard labor, hypoglycemia, etc.) should speak with their priests for a dispensation. True charity trumps all law, and law exists to serve true charity!




Definitions

Abstinence

In the Latin Church, abstinence means refraining from eating the meat from mammals or fowl, and soup or gravy made from them. Fish is allowed, hence Fridays are known as "Fish Fridays." Traditionally, the laws of abstinence apply to all aged 7 and over, but the new Code of Canon Law applies it to all who have completed their 14th year.

Partial Abstinence

Meat and soup or gravy made from meat may be eaten once a day at the principle meal.

Fasting

Fasting is the taking of only one full meal (which may include meat) and two smaller, meatless meals that don't equal the large one meal. No eating between meals is allowed, but water, milk tea, cofee, and juices are OK. Meat is allowed at one meal (assuming abstience isn't also expected on a given day). Traditionally, everyone over 21 years of age and under 59 years of age is bound to observe the law of fast; but the present Code of Canon Law sets the ages of 18 and 59 as the limits.

Summary

Before receiving the Eucharist (the "Eucharistic Fast")
Traditional: nothing but water and medicines for three hours. The even older practice is to fast for 12 hours.
1983 Code: nothing but water and medicines for 1 hour

All Fridays
Traditional: Abstain. American Catholics have a dispensation, from Pope Pius XII, to refrain from abstinence on the Friday following Thanksgiving Thursday.
1983 Code: To abstain is the universal law. Check with your local Bishops to learn what you are bound to.

Advent Embertide Traditional: Abstain and Fast
Novus Ordo: abolished

Vigil of Christmas Traditional: Abstain and Fast.
Novus Ordo: abolished

Ash Wednesday Traditional: Abstain and Fast
1983 Code: Abstain and Fast

Lenten Embertide Traditional: Abstain and Fast
Novus Ordo: abolished


All days of Lent but Fridays, Saturdays, Sundays and 1st Class Feasts
Traditional: Partially Abstain and Fast
Novus Ordo: abolished

Fridays and Saturdays of Lent Traditional: Abstain and fast
1983 Code: Abstain on
Friday not Saturdays), even if you don't abstain on
all other Fridays


Good Friday Traditional: Abstain and Fast
1983 Code: Abstain and Fast

Holy Saturday Traditional: Abstain and Fast until the noon (after the Vigil Mass, to be more precise, which nowadays is most often at night)
Novus Ordo: abolished

Vigil of the Pentecost Traditional: Abstain and Fast
Novus Ordo: abolished

Whit Embertide Traditional: Abstain and Fast
Novus Ordo: abolished


Michaelmas Embertide Traditional: Abstain and Fast
Novus Ordo: abolished




To follow the traditional path, it might be easier to follow through on these disciplines if one just decides to fast and abstain on all the days mentioned. Remembering simply to "eat no more than one regular meatless meal and two smaller meatless meals that don't equal the larger meal on all the days marked on my calendar -- and no snacking!" is a lot easier than trying to memorize that chart!

Note that in following these disciplines designed to make one mindful of Christ's sacrifice, to put the world into perspective, and to discipline the body, true charity trumps every other law; Catholics are not Pharisees. In other words, if you are asked to a sit-down dinner at a Protestant's house on Friday, and the host, unaware of Catholic practices, has worked hard to prepare a huge roast beef, eat the beef and shut up (unless you believe this person, upon learning of the discipline, would, say, see your having eaten the meat as a sign of Catholic weakness or hypocrisy and it would cause scandal or something. In other words, weigh the situation and show the Love of Christ).

This same charity applies to yourself: if you truly forget that it's "Fish Friday" and you find yourself eating a big, juicy steak, stop eating the steak and don't beat yourself up over what you've already eaten. If the will isn't involved, there is no culpability (though one should pay better attention next week!).

Why should we fast?
We fast for many reasons. Even if there were no other reason to fast, we fast out of obedience: Our Lord and His Apostles tell us to. We also fast to discipline the body so that we can focus more intently on the spiritual. And we fast to do penance. This last reason is described well by Pope Clement XIII in his "Appetente Sacro," written in 1759. In this document, he exhorts his Bishops to explain to their flocks the reasons for fasting:

You will begin most appropriately, and with hope of the greatest profit, to recall men to the observance of the holy law of fasting, if you teach the people this: penance for the Christian man is not satisfied by withdrawing from sin, by detesting a past life badly lived, or by the sacramental confession of these same sins. Rather, penance also demands that we satisfy divine justice with fasting, almsgiving, prayer, and other works of the spiritual life. Every wrongdoing -- be it large or small -- is fittingly punished, either by the penitent or by a vengeful God. Therefore we cannot avoid God's punishment in any other way than by punishing ourselves. If this teaching is constantly implanted in the minds of the faithful, and if they drink deeply of it, there will be very little cause to fear that those who have discarded their degraded habits and washed their sins clean through sacramental confession would not want to expiate the same sins through fasting, to eliminate the concupiscence of the flesh. Besides, consider the man who is convinced that he repents of his sins more firmly when he toes not allow himself to go unpunished. That man, already consumed with the love of penance, will rejoice during the season of Lent and on certain other days, when the Church declares that the faithful should fast and gives them the opportunity to bring forth worthy fruits of penance.

The Proper attitude when fasting

St. John Chrysostom, in this excerpt from Homily III of his "Homilies on the Statues," summed it up well:

7. ...We have this fast too as an ally, and as an assistant in this good intercession. Therefore, as when the winter is over and the summer is appearing, the sailor draws his vessel to the deep; and the soldier burnishes his arms, and makes ready his steed for the battle; and the husbandman sharpens his sickle; and the traveller boldly undertakes a long journey, and the wrestler strips and bares himself for the contest. So too, when the fast makes its appearance, like a kind of spiritual summer, let us as soldiers burnish our weapons; and as husbandmen let us sharpen our sickle; and as sailors let us order our thoughts against the waves of extravagant desires; and as travellers let us set out on the journey towards heaven; and as wrestlers let us strip for the contest. For the believer is at once a husbandman, and a sailor, and a soldier, a wrestler, and a traveller. Hence St. Paul saith, "We wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers. Put on therefore the whole armour of God." Hast thou observed the wrestler? Hast thou observed the soldier? If thou art a wrestler, it is necessary for thee to engage in the conflict naked. If a soldier, it behoves thee to stand in the battle line armed at all points. How then are both these things possible, to be naked, and yet not naked; to be clothed, and yet not clothed! How? I will tell thee. Divest thyself of worldly business, and thou hast become a wrestler. Put on the spiritual armour, and thou hast become a soldier. Strip thyself of worldly cares, for the season is one of wrestling. Clothe thyself with the spiritual armour, for we have a heavy warfare to wage with demons. Therefore also it is needful we should be naked, so as to offer nothing that the devil may take hold of, while he is wrestling with us; and to be fully armed at all points, so as on no side to receive a deadly blow. Cultivate thy soul. Cut away the thorns. Sow the word of godliness. Propagate and nurse with much care the fair plants of divine wisdom, and thou hast become a husbandman. And Paul will say to thee, "The husbandman that laboureth must be first partaker of the fruits. He too himself practised this art. Therefore writing to the Corinthians, he said, "I have planted, Apollos watered, but God gave the increase." Sharpen thy sickle, which thou hast blunted through gluttony--sharpen it by fasting. Lay hold of the pathway which leads towards heaven; rugged and narrow as it is, lay hold of it, and journey on. And how mayest thou be able to do these things? By subduing thy body, and bringing it into subjection. For when the way grows narrow, the corpulence that comes of gluttony is a great hindrance. Keep down the waves of inordinate desires. Repel the tempest of evil thoughts. Preserve the bark; display much skill, and thou hast become a pilot. But we shall have the fast for a groundwork and instructor in all these things.

8. I speak not, indeed, of such a fast as most persons keep, but of real fasting; not merely an abstinence from meats; but from sins too. For the nature of a fast is such, that it does not suffice to deliver those who practice it, unless it be done according to a suitable law. "For the wrestler," it is said, "is not crowned unless he strive lawfully." To the end then, that when we have gone through the labour of fasting, we forfeit not the crown of fasting, we should understand how, and after what manner, it is necessary to conduct this business; since that Pharisee also fasted, but afterwards when down empty, and destitute of the fruit of fasting. The Publican fasted not; and yet he was accepted in preference to him who had fasted; in order that thou mayest learn that fasting is unprofitable, except all other duties follow with it. The Ninevites fasted, and won the favour of God. The Jews fasted too, and profited nothing, nay they departed with blame. Since then the danger in fasting is so great to those who do not know how they ought to fast, we should learn the laws of this exercise, in order that we may not "run uncertainly," nor "beat the air," nor while we are fighting contend with a shadow. Fasting is a medicine; but a medicine, though it be never so profitable, becomes frequently useless owing to the unskillfulness of him who employs it. For it is necessary to know, moreover, the time when it should be applied, and the requisite quantity of it; and the temperament of body that admits it; and the nature of the country, and the season of the year; and the corresponding diet; as well as varous other particulars; any of which, if one overlooks, he will mar all the rest that have been named. Now if, when the body needs healing, such exactness is required on our part, much more ought we, when our care is about the soul, and we seek to heal the distempers of the mind, to look, and to search into every particular with the utmost accuracy.

11. I have said these things, not that we may disparage fasting, but that we may honour fasting; for the honour of fasting consists not in abstinence from food, but in withdrawing from sinful practices; since he who limits his fasting only to an abstinence from meats, is one who especially disparages it. Dost thou fast? Give me proof of it by thy works! Is it said by what kind of works? If thou seest a poor man, take pity on him! If thou seest an enemy, be reconciled to him! If thou seest a friend gaining honour, envy him not! If thou seest a handsome woman, pass her by! For let not the mouth only fast, but also the eye, and ear, and the feet, and the hands, and all the members of our bodies. Let the hands fast, by being pure from rapine and avarice. Let the feet fast, but ceasing from running to the unlawful spectacles. Let the eyes fast, being taught never to fix themselves rudely upon handsome countenances, or to busy themselves with strange beauties. For looking is the food of the eyes, but if this be such as is unlawful or forbidden, it mars the fast; and upsets the whole safety of the soul; but if it be lawful and safe, it adorns fasting. For it would be among things the most absurd to abstain from lawful food because of the fast, but with the eyes to touch even what is forbidden. Dost thou not eat flesh? Feed not upon lasciviousness by means of the eyes. Let the ear fast also. The fasting of the ear consists in refusing to receive evil speakings and calumnies. "Thou shalt not receive a false report," it says.


Footnote:
1 During Embertides, the traditional practice is to revert to the older pattern of abstaining and fasting on Wednesdays in addition to Fridays. Saturdays are added, too, during these times.

 

[Aliceacc]

I was born and raised Catholic but came to my senses .

Ouch. Pretty offensive.

Do what you want, believe what you want. But there's no reason to put down anyone whose beliefs differ from yours.

 

[Mouse House Mama]

I am pasteing this from the fisheaters website. I am posting to hopefully clear up a lot of confusion that I'm reading. I would also like to clarify that we (Catholics) are not only bound to abstaining on Fridays during Lent but on every Friday. That requirement was not lifted, it was decided that during the year (not during Lent) the requirement to abstain could be replaced by a pennance. As always your local Bishop has the Authority to absolve you from this. Just FYI for those interested.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
We never ever ate meat on Fridays growing up. Not just during lent but every friday of the year.

 

[laceemouse]

Ouch. Pretty offensive.

Do what you want, believe what you want. But there's no reason to put down anyone whose beliefs differ from yours.

Okay, I'll say it in a nicer way. Why would anyone continue to associate themselves with any certain "religion" if they really don't agree with the "rules" of said religion and don't see any reason to abide by them

Catholics aren't the only ones who use the "cafeteria" method to pick and choose what they like about their faith. Lots of folks do it. I guess I just can't even began to wrap my mind around the fact that they would not do a little research and get out and find a "religion" that they can agree with.

Have to add, I also agree that we are saved by faith and not by works or following rules. The Bible does, however, leave a lot of room for interpretation. My hubby and I have found a faith where our interpretation is in line with the teachings of our church. It isn't hard to do!!!

 

[tessiesevin]

We have been in Disney the past 3 years during lent. Having ADRs so far
ahead of time I we did eat meat on Fridays.

 

[mjkacmom]

Okay, I'll say it in a nicer way. Why would anyone continue to associate themselves with any certain "religion" if they really don't agree with the "rules" of said religion and don't see any reason to abide by them

Catholics aren't the only ones who use the "cafeteria" method to pick and choose what they like about their faith. Lots of folks do it. I guess I just can't even began to wrap my mind around the fact that they would not do a little research and get out and find a "religion" that they can agree with.

Have to add, I also agree that we are saved by faith and not by works or following rules. The Bible does, however, leave a lot of room for interpretation. My hubby and I have found a faith where our interpretation is in line with the teachings of our church. It isn't hard to do!!!

Being Catholic isn't just a religion, it's a culture. I can walk into any church, anywhere, and not only be welcomed, but know exactly what is going on, and be comforted by the ritual. Every church has the same Mass on the same day.

 

[Mouse House Mama]

Being Catholic isn't just a religion, it's a culture. I can walk into any church, anywhere, and not only be welcomed, but know exactly what is going on, and be comforted by the ritual. Every church has the same Mass on the same day.

I agree. It definetly is more than a religion.
There isn't a religion that is is going to be 100% what I think or anyone thinks. I do love to read about those that claim that they follow every single rule of their religion. Oh the burden of being so perfect!

 

[lntsmom]

Op I don't think you are a bad Catholic for eating meat on Fridays. In fact I don't think you are any worse of a Catholic than those that are condeming you for it and telling you to find another church. IMO that is not a very Catholic attitude adn something I find more serious than a hamburger on a friday. YMMV.

And, are you Catholic? If you'll notice, the OP asked for opinions. You're welcome to find my opinion, supporting Church practices, to be un-Catholic. You, however, are wrong.

Had the OP simply commented on not following this practice in a post, I wouldn't have responded. Those of us who responded honestly are now being attacked as being judgemental and un-Catholic. I would guess that those of you doing the attacking are either lapsed Catholics yourselves or you belong to other denominations, in which case what in the world makes you think you have any business answering or commenting on this issue?

I stand by my opinion: if you don't believe in the teachings of the Catholic Church, don't call yourself Catholic. If you want to call yourself Catholic, follow the teachings. The Catholic church was founded by Jesus himself...given the choice, I will choose to follow church teachings .

 

[Karlzmom]

I hope I don't start a huge debate here and I'm almost scared to post this but I'm just wondering what other people think. Am I a bad Catholic if I eat meat on Fridays during lent? I go to mass every sunday, am involved in a lot of things at church but I just can't get into the "no meat on fridays". Just wondering what other Catholic's think.

How can you think this wont cause a huge debate? Either you want opinions, or simply people to tell you its ok to do what you want....independant of being Catholic, you may want to consider that if in your life you need to ask if something is OK, that you already know the answer... The platitudes of strangers shouldnt override your conscience.