OT - 8 year old home alone?

[crisi]

My question back to you - is there a reason that the mortality rate of those same children in those same third world countries is so much higher than it is here???

Yeah. Low rates of vaccination, bad water, substandard access to medical care and oppressive poverty.

You don't need to look to the machete they are wielding. Child labor sucks, but honestly - for these kids its often that or starve. The risk of the machete is smaller than the risk of starvation.

Likewise, for MANY American families, the choice is "leave your five year old home alone for a few hours before you get home from work" or "not work and hope the inadequate social safety net is sufficient" or "pay for daycare and not be able to afford rent and food."

It really shouldn't be a luxury to keep your kids safe. For many people in the world, it is. Sometimes, it is astounding to me that we have the luxury to debate the ethics of what for so many people is not ethics, but survival.

 

[fakereadhed]

This thread was revived from the dead by a troll trying to sell something. Tried not to jump in, but the machete analogy doesn't work. The kids are using machetes under adult supervision and guidance, not being left alone back at the hut with it.

 

[MayzDisney4]

I have two dd's 8 and 6, my 8 year old will be 9 later this year....no way would I leave her home alone.....not because of her not being responsible but why on earth would I force her into such a situation?

This is exactly why I won't either. And for me society isn't as safe (in my opinion) as it was many years ago. I trust my daughter, I don't trust the sick people out there.
But everyone has a different take and I don't judge anyone who has a different opinion than me. If you leave your child home alone, good for you! I personally won't until she is a bit older.

 

[princessmom29]

My question back to you - is there a reason that the mortality rate of those same children in those same third world countries is so much higher than it is here???

My guess the reason would be those 5 year olds who use machetes that you mentioned.

Actually, it has to do with standards of health care.

 

[nchulka]

This thread was revived from the dead by a troll trying to sell something. Tried not to jump in, but the machete analogy doesn't work. The kids are using machetes under adult supervision and guidance, not being left alone back at the hut with it.

Actually whether they have adult supervision or not does not matter. My point was that children in other countries are made to do challenging things at much younger ages than here in America. Here many 9 year olds are still not allowed sharp knives at the dinner table (under supervision) to cut their own meat. In tribal communities it is very common that children around age 5 are left caring for the younger children while the parents are out finding food and surviving. The thing is that here in America we lead such lives of comfort that we don't have to do what we need to do to survive. We have an idea that children should not die and seem to think that we are able to prevent all tragedy. We live in a much safer society yet seem to see fear around every corner and pass that on to our children. The result is people who think a child cannot be home alone until 12! In other societies by 12 you are the parent! We are leaving our kids home in nice safe houses with modern conveniences, these other people are leaving their kids in huts, with open fires and deadly bugs. I'm not saying that I want to live like that, I am very thankful for what we have here in this country. Just pointing out that here in America we seem to create danger in our minds and severely underestimate what our children are capable of. If a child dies here, we want to blame someone, we think all risk should be eliminated, "even one death is too many". While eliminating death seems nice and all, we're not gods, we don't have that power, and keeping our kids wrapped in bubble wrap "for their own good" is actually to their own demise!

 

[princessmom29]

This thread was revived from the dead by a troll trying to sell something. Tried not to jump in, but the machete analogy doesn't work. The kids are using machetes under adult supervision and guidance, not being left alone back at the hut with it.

Actually, no they are not being supervised all the time. Most children who do field work are actually NOT being closely superised by an adult because the adults are also working, often in other areas. They ARE in fact expected to be able to use that machete without mommy holding thier hand. We have a large African refugee population in our school, and those kids will tell you about thier life back home if you listen. They are appalled at how dependent American children are on thier parents for every little thing.

 

[nchulka]

And for me society isn't as safe (in my opinion) as it was many years ago. I trust my daughter, I don't trust the sick people out there..

America is not a safe society! Really??? All rates of violent crimes have been declining over the past 15 years or so (since they reached their peak in the mid 90's) Levels are currently where they were in the 60's-70's). While many children "go missing" everyday, that number includes teenage runaways, children taken by non-custodial parents or other people trusted by the family, and children who just wander off and are found a short time later. The actual number PER YEAR in the US of typical stranger abductions is about 115. Of those about 40% are found alive in the first 2 days or so. You kid has a MUCH higher risk of tragedy riding in the car with you than being home alone. We know the names of high profile kidnapped kids because they are so rare, that they are splashed all over the news. We have an incredibly safe society, so many other countries are plagued by violence. We don't have rioting in the streets and gangs of rebels running amok in our cities. We don't have mob rule and violent civil unrest. America is a pretty darn safe place, we just suck at risk analysis!

 

[Hannathy]

America is not a safe society! Really??? All rates of violent crimes have been declining over the past 15 years or so (since they reached their peak in the mid 90's) Levels are currently where they were in the 60's-70's). While many children "go missing" everyday, that number includes teenage runaways, children taken by non-custodial parents or other people trusted by the family, and children who just wander off and are found a short time later. The actual number PER YEAR in the US of typical stranger abductions is about 115. Of those about 40% are found alive in the first 2 days or so. You kid has a MUCH higher risk of tragedy riding in the car with you than being home alone. We know the names of high profile kidnapped kids because they are so rare, that they are splashed all over the news. We have an incredibly safe society, so many other countries are plagued by violence. We don't have rioting in the streets and gangs of rebels running amok in our cities. We don't have mob rule and violent civil unrest. America is a pretty darn safe place, we just suck at risk analysis!

Like I always say in these threads Now don't go confusing their argument with the facts!

It is ridiculous how babied and overprotected this generation of kids has become. And yes I said ridiculous it is my opinion. truly sad.

 

[PEANUT1]

Some states have laws..here in NJ apparently not. They recommend 12 even if state law does or does not apply.

http://www.latchkey-kids.com/latchkey-kids-age-limits.htm

I think as a parent, you know your children best. I am not sure what age I will feel comfortable leaving my kids for short periods...probably close to 11 or 12 but I think each case is different.

 

[princessmom29]

America is not a safe society! Really??? All rates of violent crimes have been declining over the past 15 years or so (since they reached their peak in the mid 90's) Levels are currently where they were in the 60's-70's). While many children "go missing" everyday, that number includes teenage runaways, children taken by non-custodial parents or other people trusted by the family, and children who just wander off and are found a short time later. The actual number PER YEAR in the US of typical stranger abductions is about 115. Of those about 40% are found alive in the first 2 days or so. You kid has a MUCH higher risk of tragedy riding in the car with you than being home alone. We know the names of high profile kidnapped kids because they are so rare, that they are splashed all over the news. We have an incredibly safe society, so many other countries are plagued by violence. We don't have rioting in the streets and gangs of rebels running amok in our cities. We don't have mob rule and violent civil unrest. America is a pretty darn safe place, we just suck at risk analysis!

exactly. I think it is ridiculous to worry constantly about who is lurking in th shadows to snatch your child, becuse it simply doesn't happen as often as many have been led to believe. There are so many more valid and likely things to pour energy and worry into, but people seem to put them on the back burnere. Your child is thousands of times more likely to be injured in an auto accident than home alone, but no one worrys constantly about driving with thier children?

 

[lillygator]

exactly. I think it is ridiculous to worry constantly about who is lurking in th shadows to snatch your child, becuse it simply doesn't happen as often as many have been led to believe. There are so many more valid and likely things to pour energy and worry into, but people seem to put them on the back burnere. Your child is thousands of times more likely to be injured in an auto accident than home alone, but no one worrys constantly about driving with thier children?

it may not happen as often as you believe (however, reading sites like websleuths...and knowing how many are taken I believe differently) I am not going to put my child in any kind of situation this could happen....

 

[nchulka]

it may not happen as often as you believe (however, reading sites like websleuths...and knowing how many are taken I believe differently) I am not going to put my child in any kind of situation this could happen....

You're not going to put your child in any kind of situation where they could be taken??? I guess you better get a jumbo king size bed and all sleep together then because I can think of 3 high profile kidnapping right off the top of my head where girls were taken from their own beds. One during a slumber party with other girls in the very same room, and one who was sleeping right next to her sister. There is a small amount of danger in anything, you can't prevent everything all the time. Trying to do so will do so much more harm than good. Eventually your child will be on their own and the ones who have some experience in the world will fare far better than the ones who were sheltered and are naive.

 

[kmedina]

I do not know what I will do, since my DS is only four. It depends on the kid, the parent and the situation I guess.

 

[DawnM]

No. We have had kids in the same town kidnapped and currently have a guy in an unwindowed van going around neighborhoods.

My 13 year old can stay alone and I leave my 11 year old with him. I don't leave my 7 year old with them.

Dawn

 

[princessmom29]

You're not going to put your child in any kind of situation where they could be taken??? I guess you better get a jumbo king size bed and all sleep together then because I can think of 3 high profile kidnapping right off the top of my head where girls were taken from their own beds. One during a slumber party with other girls in the very same room, and one who was sleeping right next to her sister. There is a small amount of danger in anything, you can't prevent everything all the time. Trying to do so will do so much more harm than good. Eventually your child will be on their own and the ones who have some experience in the world will fare far better than the ones who were sheltered and are naive.

exactly. We simply cannot protect them from everything. It isn't possible. It is all about reasonable precaution. Less than 200 children are abducted every year, and only a portion of the mare killed many times more die in car crashes and simple accidents, but if you ask parents what kind of safety measures they are taking, no one's number one is limiting car trips or outside play. Most would say that they teach their children about strangers and how to be safe. They go to all of these lenghts because you "never know who is out there" Why? I just don't get it when that it is so very unlikely that a child will EVER be in this situation.

 

[Cynestra]

I've never left my 8 year old home alone. I have only very recently been letting him sit in the car alone while running in for short trips (like gas station, not grocery shopping).

 

[Leajess99]

I've never left my 8 year old home alone. I have only very recently been letting him sit in the car alone while running in for short trips (like gas station, not grocery shopping).

You do realize that this is actually illegal in many states right?? In Michigan it is now a felony to leave a child in the car. I would feel safer leaving my 8 year old in a house before I would leaving her in a car.

 

[nchulka]

You do realize that this is actually illegal in many states right?? In Michigan it is now a felony to leave a child in the car. I would feel safer leaving my 8 year old in a house before I would leaving her in a car.

I'm curious about this law. Is it just Michigan? Does it give an age/length of time restriction or just no children in a car ever? Like for instance a 1 year old in a car on a hot day while you spend 30 minutes at the grocery store would definitely warrant an arrest but a 10 year old for 20 seconds while you put books in a book drop outside the library entrance is clearly a different situation. If you truly go by the term "child" then I guess a 16 year old would not be able to drive themselves anywhere as they would be alone in a car. I ask because I wonder how something like this can be regulated. What about pumping gas or throwing a letter in a mailbox? Is it okay at 12, 10, 8?

 

[Cynestra]

I'm curious about this law. Is it just Michigan? Does it give an age/length of time restriction or just no children in a car ever? Like for instance a 1 year old in a car on a hot day while you spend 30 minutes at the grocery store would definitely warrant an arrest but a 10 year old for 20 seconds while you put books in a book drop outside the library entrance is clearly a different situation. If you truly go by the term "child" then I guess a 16 year old would not be able to drive themselves anywhere as they would be alone in a car. I ask because I wonder how something like this can be regulated. What about pumping gas or throwing a letter in a mailbox? Is it okay at 12, 10, 8?

This is the law here, and actually it is the same in Michigan. There are only 12 states with laws for this. Several are for 6 and under, some are illegal for 12 and under with keys in the ignition. One does give a time limit of 10 minutes alone in a car for a child under 9. Running into the gas station to pay or dropping something off in the chute at the PO are perfectly legal. If it's a nice day out, not too hot/cold, and my 8 year old asks if he can just wait in the car for those couple minutes, I let him. Keys come with me though, and doors are to remain locked.

Oklahoma - illegal to leave child 6 years or younger "unattended" - with unattended defined as "beyond a person's direct ability to care for or come to the aid of the unaccompanied person" if conditions (e.g. extreme weather, inadequate ventilation) pose a risk to the safety of the child.

 

[jodifla]

Here's the Michigan law. A child who's 8 would NOT be illegal:

http://www.mlive.com/news/saginaw/index.ssf/2009/09/saginaw_case_tests_new_law_on.html


The law makes it illegal to leave any child, 5 or younger, unattended in a vehicle, unless they are supervised by someone 13 or older.

It designates the offense as a one-year, $1,000 misdemeanor if the unattended child is physically harmed; a 10-year, $5,000 felony if the child is seriously physically harmed, including brain damage, bone fractures, dislocations, sprains, internal injuries, poisoning, burns or severe cuts; and a 15-year, $10,000 penalty if the act results in death.

If the child is not injured, as was the case with Colon's child, the punishment is up to 93 days in jail and $500 fine.