OT: 2nd grade project a bit much?

[palavra]

I can only HOPE that the school would not assign a power point presentation before teaching children how to do one in computer class. That, like others have said, is like putting the cart before the horse.

My kids are introduced to the computer in K but don't start learning how to 'use' it for learning and research until they enter the upper elementary school in 3rd grade. No matter how much we might balk, there are STILL families that don't have computers. While I think in middle school and beyond kids should just be expected to hit the library, an elementary school child? I would only hope a teacher would be more reasonable.

My daughter did learn how to do power points in computer class this year (2nd grade). She also did a research project on an animal of her choice last year in first grade which included library research. I find it hard to believe that my daughter's school is that advanced. I thought early research projects and computer skills were an integral part of early elementary school today.

To the OP-since you mentioned that your daughter struggles with reading, I would talk to the teacher and ask her for a reduced project. Actually, the teacher should probably have had differentiated projects based on the student's reading levels.

 

[drcbpearce]

After reading all of the responses I've realized a few things:

I need to get ready for the increased workload. it seems to be changing even since my DS was in 2nd grade just 3 yrs ago.

I will kiss the feet of my DS's teacher for giving us updates and heads up on the projects they are working on, since it seems to be out of the norm.

I still hate the parent homework. I think it's ridiculous to assign projects to children that require heavy parental involvement. Not to mention the short deadline. LIke the bridge project that requires carrying a load of rolls of pennies and identifying stress points. (not my dd, but another poster's child's project). Age appropriate projects that they are able to complete mostly on their own, I would have no problem with.

I am gonna be the hard-core mommy on reading. I thought I already was, but in needing to assist so much with this, I see that we have not been diligent enough with working on her reading skills here at home.

Am I being a whiner? IDK. Do I want the best for my kids, absolutely. But as many posters have written, pushing them to do something before they are intellectually and developmentally ready does nothing but frustrate everyone involved. Yes, I'll get over it. Yes, she'll have it done in time to turn in. Did she learn anything from this? Probably not much.

Thanks for all of the input. I do appreciate it. I know I can count on my DIS friends to help me out.

 

[Scurvy]

In response to the original question, my son had to do a similar project in second grade, though he had to select an author for his. I agree with others that it seems age-appropriate to me. I also agree with those who say that for the most part, this is a project that should not require parental involvement other than transportation to the library. I understand that your child isn't quite on level with reading at this point, and that would complicate things. But as far as the research and writing the paper, a typical second grader should be able to do most of that on her own. Unfortunately, this is just the beginning, and you should expect this sort of thing to continue for the rest of her school career.

That said, I can understand why you'd be irritated that the project was assigned over a holiday weekend. I hate it when teachers do that. My son had a major project assigned over fall break and we were supposed to be out of town for the whole break. I was really annoyed - I think teachers should assume that students will be away during school holidays and shouldn't assign significant projects during those times, but obviously not everyone agrees. I can also understand being irritated by the trip to the library. Between the school library and the internet, my son has rarely had to go to the local library for school and the few times he had to I was annoyed. We stay fairly busy and it can be difficult to fit in trips to places like that when they are open, especially on short notice. As a parent, I also prefer a little more notice when an assignment involves things we might not have at home or places we might have to visit. However, I've come to realize that I can't count on that so we try to keep a good stock of supplies on hand for projects and my son has been warned that he must tell me immediately if he needs additional supplies or has to go to the library.

I am a little bit surprised to see that some parents seem somewhat surprised that they are expected to help to teach their child. That truly isn't a judgement (though I realize it may sound that way), I think I just assume that most parents expect to continue their children's education at home. As much as teachers try, they can not devote as much time to each individual child as they would like. For a child to have the best possible opportunity to thrive, her parents should also be partners in her education. In my opinion, that's just part of being a parent. Obviously it can be a balancing act to find the time, but if at all possible it's well worth it.

palavra - It isn't just your child's school. My son was visiting the computer lab from first grade on, and did his first power point presentation in second or third grade. I think that is becoming more and more the norm.

 

[juliebean]

I was really glad to see that you are concerned about your daughter's reading skills. As a former HS teacher, I've seen too much research about how hard it is for a child to do well in school if they are not good readers. For me, it is the absolute priority for elementary school. Believe me, it's tough to do well in HS Chemistry if you are struggling with the book content - forget about the concepts. For, my older kids it was a matter of finding what they liked and then they have developed a love for it. I hope it will be as easy with the third, it is just so important. It's clear you are very concerned about your kids education!

 

[Nicolepa]

That sounds like the case of the teacher previously teaching to upper grades and suddenly in a classroom of younger kids and not realizing the differences in age-appropriate projects. My algebra teacher in 9th grade thought she was teaching college and life was miserable. I barely scraped out a C- and was thrilled.

Nope. Fairly new teacher, always taught the 3rd/4th gifted class. It was a matter of her not realizing that ability and maturity are two different things. Just because a child can mentally do a project doesn't mean they have the maturity to do the project. We won't talk about how the class was expected to raise 10K for the Make-a-Wish foundation.

Part of the problem was that the kids have the same teacher for 2 years. Her grading was very arbitrary too. So no one wanted to say anything because they didn't want to be labeled "that" parent or have it taken out on their child. I was so mad about something,( I think the Make-A-Wish,) and was going to say something at the November confrence that my husband said, no way are you going to that confrence and took the afternoon off to go and made me stay home.

 

[drcbpearce]

I was really glad to see that you are concerned about your daughter's reading skills. As a former HS teacher, I've seen too much research about how hard it is for a child to do well in school if they are not good readers. For me, it is the absolute priority for elementary school. Believe me, it's tough to do well in HS Chemistry if you are struggling with the book content - forget about the concepts. For, my older kids it was a matter of finding what they liked and then they have developed a love for it. I hope it will be as easy with the third, it is just so important. It's clear you are very concerned about your kids education!

Thank you. I am very concerned about the skills of both of my children. As you say, if they do not have even the basic skills mastered in the earlier grades, it will only get worse. I want them both to be able to move on to college and rewarding careers after. And not feel like they're faking it or struggling. I can't imagine attempting chem w/o being able to really read and comprehend what I'm reading and doing.

 

[drcbpearce]

Nope. Fairly new teacher, always taught the 3rd/4th gifted class. It was a matter of her not realizing that ability and maturity are two different things. Just because a child can mentally do a project doesn't mean they have the maturity to do the project. We won't talk about how the class was expected to raise 10K for the Make-a-Wish foundation.

Part of the problem was that the kids have the same teacher for 2 years. Her grading was very arbitrary too. So no one wanted to say anything because they didn't want to be labeled "that" parent or have it taken out on their child. I was so mad about something,( I think the Make-A-Wish,) and was going to say something at the November confrence that my husband said, no way are you going to that confrence and took the afternoon off to go and made me stay home.

wow! One poster wrote, just because they can, doesn't mean they should. And that is so true! I hope your child made it thru those grades none the worse for wear. That makes life very frustrating and disheartening for the children. My DS's 2nd grade teacher was nearly as old as dirt and really needed to retire. There was a personality conflict, he's a wiggly bouncy boy, and he grated on her nerves and he was very unhappy and frustrated that entire year and decided that he hated school. And that was almost worse than trying to get along with someone who clearly had no interest in making nice.

 

[Nicolepa]

wow! One poster wrote, just because they can, doesn't mean they should. And that is so true! I hope your child made it thru those grades none the worse for wear. That makes life very frustrating and disheartening for the children. My DS's 2nd grade teacher was nearly as old as dirt and really needed to retire. There was a personality conflict, he's a wiggly bouncy boy, and he grated on her nerves and he was very unhappy and frustrated that entire year and decided that he hated school. And that was almost worse than trying to get along with someone who clearly had no interest in making nice.

That was me! Her 1st/2nd grade teacher had that motto. She said no matter how smart they are they are still 6/7/8 and have the maturity of such. She knew how to give them projects that challenged them, but still were feasable for a 6 year old to do. She also felt that they worked so hard during the day that she rarely gave homework. Man I loved that teacher. My daughter still finds that teacher daily and to say hi or show her a project she is working on.

 

[stm61]

My daughter did learn how to do power points in computer class this year (2nd grade). She also did a research project on an animal of her choice last year in first grade which included library research. I find it hard to believe that my daughter's school is that advanced. I thought early research projects and computer skills were an integral part of early elementary school today.

it all depends on where you live. In my area most of the kids do not have internet access at home. This is a very rural area, the library is in town. You can't walk unless you live in town so a parent is required to drive kids there. The library has 10 or 12 computers, most days there's a waiting list for access because adults and teens are using them for school/job search/whatever. They do have computer class in school, usually once a week, but they're not teaching power point in 1st grade. Computer class consists of some kind of educational software like SuccessMaker or Study Island. I just asked my 6th grader, she may not have computer class this year because they only get 2 related arts classes a semester (PE, art, etc.), so they only get 4 subjects a year. (some may get PE, art, music, and computer, another may get band all year with PE and art, etc.) I think my older kids didn't get power point and similar programs in computer class until either the end of jr. high or in high school, depending on each student's schedule choices.

Most of the teachers don't assign reports or projects that require library or computer access because they know they won't be done. I only remember one project, in 2nd grade, where the kids had to research an assigned person for black history month. It was a nightmare for parents because some had no internet access, some had issues getting to the library, and then the library didn't have books on 2nd grade level for some of the assigned topics. That was the last project assigned to be done at home, now they're assigned in school, worked on in school, and maybe brought home to be completed.

 

[princessmom29]

My DD is in 1st grade, and i don't think it is unreasonable. We could certianly do it in a week, and DD dances after school for multiple hours 3 days a week. We get a week's worth of homework on Friday, due the next Friday. There are several pages of Math, Handwriting practice, something for Grammar, and 14 spelling words to write 3 times each and study. We read 15 min per night, and go over addition and subtraction facts.

 

[azdizzymom]

My DD is in 1st grade, and i don't think it is unreasonable. We could certianly do it in a week, and DD dances after school for multiple hours 3 days a week. We get a week's worth of homework on Friday, due the next Friday. There are several pages of Math, Handwriting practice, something for Grammar, and 14 spelling words to write 3 times each and study. We read 15 min per night, and go over addition and subtraction facts.

What you are doing is great. Showing your child how to do homework and after school activities and showing the priority of them!
Some parents are the opposite and let their kids do so many things that homework just falls to the side!
I've always told my boys homework first and that comes first. If grades suffer because of sports or activities then those get dropped.

 

[Mkrop]

Now you guys have got me really worried. My DS is in 5th grade and he gets projects to do as well, but he's more independent and doesn't need so much assistance. I know it gets tougher the older they get, and I totally expect that. Writing and researching skills are very important as you've pointed out, I can't argue with that. I've been thru enough education myself to know that is true. And to push yourself is a good thing as well. I guess I"m frustrated by the whole timing of the project and that we were given no advance warning this was being sent home. One of my friends had no idea about it, until I just asked what her thoughts were. Her DD hadn't given her the paper and I guess she didn't find it in the backpack. so now they're scrambling to get everything on a holiday wknd when the library is closed today and tomorrow.
Yes, I will send the teacher an email and let her know that I'm unhappy w/the timing of this and ask that she give us a heads up next time around so we're not caught offguard.

Thanks for the input!

This is totally an appropriate project for 2nd grade. DS8 in 2nd has a similar project on a creative person, he chose Leonardo Da Vinci. He has been telling me stuff that he has read about him, now I just need him to write it all down. The poster is completed. He picked the pictures, and we printed them together. I TAUGHT him how to make a presentable poster. I think this is just as important as flashcards for math, or reading with my child. You cant just assume that a child is going to know how to do this project, you may have to teach them or reinforce what is being taught in school.


Last year they had a similar project on animals, I learned so much about giraffes bc we worked on his reading that he needed help with by reading all about giraffes together.

And DS13 had a group assignment over Christmas break, try figuring out when 4 boys can get together while everyone is away and visiting family and a snowstorm to put together a 3d Plant Cell Project.

IMO, when a child is in 2nd grade - the teacher should be assigning things that can "mostly" be completed by the child. In other words, I would bring my child to the library and assist in finding a book, maybe offer suggestions of topics, but the ACTUAL WORK (writing of all the sentences, all the facts, the poster) would all be done by my child.

I can tell you if MY 2nd grader was doing this - it would look, very much, like a 7 year old did it.

I would hope that's what the teacher is expecting.

Oh and my kids do not get anything resembling this in 2nd or 3rd grade and those are their current grades - neither one has had one this extensive. I would be VERY surprised too, OP.

For those who have seen this type of assignment in a younger grade like 2nd - what percentage would you say your child did completely independently? What percentage would you say others in his/her class did independently?

That's the part that truly annoys me - these projects are SUPPOSED to be done by the kids (unless otherwise stated by the teacher as a 'family' project or other) - and what little I've seen I KNOW that a child at that grade level did NOT do it.

I totally disagree. Like I stated above, to me this is just another area that I am helping my children. If they were struggling in Math, I would be helping them. I am not just going to hand them some poster board or a shoebox and say have at it. Both of my guys do fine writing and learning about their topics, they are usually quite informed during the oral speeches. But give them the creative side of the project and they look like a deer in headlights. Although DS13 is now teaching me Power Point.

DD's reading level is an issue. What you wrote, get the books, read them, get to the internet site, sound reasonable in theory. Maybe your 2nd graders would've been able to stay on task and do that, but mine likely wouldn't. I'm not trying to discount her skills at all, I just know her abilities now. Maybe she could do it in 3rd grade, but not now.

The whole wknd library visit was bc, honestly, I didn't realize we were supposed to go to the library until the wknd, after the library was closed for the following 2 days. which will leave us 1 day to get a book or two before the project is due. Yes, partly my fault, I should've read the instructions better.

Since you say your DD has reading issues, make this fun, and have this be her reading assignment for the time being dont make her read something else as well. My guys have always had to read so many minutes a day, if they had a project due, then that would be their reading assignment. DS8 has been reading a little bit about DaVinci every day, and as I am typing this he is rattling on about him.

This is not the teacher's fault. You need to get in the habit of checking backpack or assigment books until the child is old enough, and even then you need to check on them. I have been sitting next to parents at basketball games and I will mention that one of my kids was working on said project before we left and they had no idea because they never checked or asked their kid if they had homework or projects. And our stuff in posted online too!

 

[brymolmom]

I totally disagree. Like I stated above, to me this is just another area that I am helping my children. If they were struggling in Math, I would be helping them. I am not just going to hand them some poster board or a shoebox and say have at it. Both of my guys do fine writing and learning about their topics, they are usually quite informed during the oral speeches. But give them the creative side of the project and they look like a deer in headlights. Although DS13 is now teaching me Power Point.

!

Yes, I fear you and many, many other parents. That's the worst part. If my 2nd grader's project looks like a 7 year old did it but the others look (miraculously) like real works of art - then it makes my 7 year old feel and seem like a poor worker. When, in reality, hers should likely be one of the better ones.

If your child is being graded on it - I don't disagree with helping (more than just handing them scissors), but if you are helping with Math homework - you don't end up writing in 1/2 the answers (or telling them to him/her), right?? Helping is different, IMO, than actually performing any of the work.

Every child has their strength....maybe art isn't one of them, for example. But that doesn't mean you should do it for them. I wasn't good at art - so I got some lousy grades in it. But I was good at Math and science. But I had to do my own work for each, even when they overlapped classes.

I can only hope that the teachers acknowledge the ones whose parents do a lot of the work - and grade my kids' a lot higher than those. But that remains to be seen. I have a feeling I will be having many discussions with teachers in the future on this topic. And while I will usually stay out of grading debates - this is definitely one area I will take a stand if my child isn't graded fairly, due to comparison to adult's work.

 

[juliebean]

As a former teacher I would just really caution anyone to do as little as possible to help their child on projects. I'm not talking about getting them supplies or providing guidelines for a poster - but the majority of the work should be theirs.

2 reasons -

Teachers need to know what they can do - not what you can help them with. I never correct mistakes my kids make on homework assignments for this reason. The teacher needs to know that a concept is not completely understood.

Kids need to be okay with struggling to learn. I completely believe that the biggest reason we do not produce more mathematicians and scientists is because our kids are not learning to make mistakes and then continue to work on a problem. This is a huge part of any mathematician, scientist or engineer's process of getting to the right answer. As a Chemistry teacher I would have kids work on a project for 5 or 10 minutes and want help...no way dude - go back and think some more.

 

[figment3258]

To me that sounds like a lot. I am glad that we home school I think schools give way to much home work they already have kids there all day why make them do hours of homework on topof that. That is just my opion though.

 

[Mkrop]

Yes, I fear you and many, many other parents. That's the worst part. If my 2nd grader's project looks like a 7 year old did it but the others look (miraculously) like real works of art - then it makes my 7 year old feel and seem like a poor worker. When, in reality, hers should likely be one of the better ones.

If your child is being graded on it - I don't disagree with helping (more than just handing them scissors), but if you are helping with Math homework - you don't end up writing in 1/2 the answers (or telling them to him/her), right?? Helping is different, IMO, than actually performing any of the work.

Every child has their strength....maybe art isn't one of them, for example. But that doesn't mean you should do it for them. I wasn't good at art - so I got some lousy grades in it. But I was good at Math and science. But I had to do my own work for each, even when they overlapped classes.

I can only hope that the teachers acknowledge the ones whose parents do a lot of the work - and grade my kids' a lot higher than those. But that remains to be seen. I have a feeling I will be having many discussions with teachers in the future on this topic. And while I will usually stay out of grading debates - this is definitely one area I will take a stand if my child isn't graded fairly, due to comparison to adult's work.

And you need to learn to read, words mean things! I said HELP, not do for my child. I TEACH my child how to do it themselves. I dont DO their math for them, but I do flash cards etc, I show them a different way of doing the problem. DS13 recently helped DS8 with a word problem bc he was able to explain it differently than either myself or the teacher. It is called helping, he did not give him the answer or do the work for him.

Trust me my kids project's still look age appropriate bc they are doing the work. Do I guide them as to put the title on top and maybe put this picture here, sure. But they choose the pictures, they cut the pictures, they glue the pictures etc. Why would you not teach your child how to do something. DS13 could not come up with a household item for one of MANY things that needed to go on his cell project. I guided him to look around and pulled several items out of a junk drawer to use.

When my child is writing a report, I TEACH them how to write a paper. I TEACH them about writing a draft, about proper punctuation, about grammar etc.

Do/did you teach your child to tie their shoes or brush their teeth, or did you just throw shoes and a toothbrush at them and wish them luck. I TEACH them how to make a presentable poster, diaroma, research paper and oral report. DS8 was struggling last year, undiagnosised ADD at the time, but the teacher could not believe how much he knew about giraffes. She told me she knew which kids did the report themselves and learned their animal and which kids had no clue.

You have nothing to fear from me as a parent and since DS is now in 7th grade and we have done more projects that I can count, and each of my children have gotten As or A-s, I think they must be doing something right.

 

[Mkrop]

As a former teacher I would just really caution anyone to do as little as possible to help their child on projects. I'm not talking about getting them supplies or providing guidelines for a poster - but the majority of the work should be theirs.

2 reasons -

Teachers need to know what they can do - not what you can help them with. I never correct mistakes my kids make on homework assignments for this reason. The teacher needs to know that a concept is not completely understood.Kids need to be okay with struggling to learn. I completely believe that the biggest reason we do not produce more mathematicians and scientists is because our kids are not learning to make mistakes and then continue to work on a problem. This is a huge part of any mathematician, scientist or engineer's process of getting to the right answer. As a Chemistry teacher I would have kids work on a project for 5 or 10 minutes and want help...no way dude - go back and think some more.

Now see I was told the exact opposite by DS8's teachers for the last 3 years. Late last year DS was dx with ADD. Before that he really struggled, especially in Math. I asked the teacher's if we should just leave it the first time with answer wrong, or could I have him try again and/or explain what he got wrong and redo the problem. They were all for me trying to reexplain it bc so many times he got it the next go around, esp when someone could take some one on one time with him in a quiet environment, due to sensory issues. Each year I have asked the teachers and they have said to continue to do what we are doing, they see enough in his classwork to know where he is struggling but if I can help him then that benefits DS and that is the goal for us and the teacher.

 

[brymolmom]

And you need to learn to read, words mean things! I said HELP, not do for my child. I TEACH my child how to do it themselves. I dont DO their math for them, but I do flash cards etc, I show them a different way of doing the problem. DS13 recently helped DS8 with a word problem bc he was able to explain it differently than either myself or the teacher. It is called helping, he did not give him the answer or do the work for him.

Trust me my kids project's still look age appropriate bc they are doing the work. Do I guide them as to put the title on top and maybe put this picture here, sure. But they choose the pictures, they cut the pictures, they glue the pictures etc. Why would you not teach your child how to do something. DS13 could not come up with a household item for one of MANY things that needed to go on his cell project. I guided him to look around and pulled several items out of a junk drawer to use.

When my child is writing a report, I TEACH them how to write a paper. I TEACH them about writing a draft, about proper punctuation, about grammar etc.

Do/did you teach your child to tie their shoes or brush their teeth, or did you just throw shoes and a toothbrush at them and wish them luck. I TEACH them how to make a presentable poster, diaroma, research paper and oral report. DS8 was struggling last year, undiagnosised ADD at the time, but the teacher could not believe how much he knew about giraffes. She told me she knew which kids did the report themselves and learned their animal and which kids had no clue.

You have nothing to fear from me as a parent and since DS is now in 7th grade and we have done more projects that I can count, and each of my children have gotten As or A-s, I think they must be doing something right.

Well, one of us does. You said of my quoted remarks that you 'totally disagreed' but I said I was OK with help, but with the vast majority of it being done by the child. So I guess what you meant was that you agree with me.

Oh and I guess our school is different than yours, I do assist and reinforce, but my kids' school teaches them about writing, punctuation, grammar, etc. So honestly except for reminders and support, they should be able to do it mostly independently.

As long as your child is doing the work, I have no problem with it. But since you have one in 7th - I am SURE you have run into the type of projects to which I refer - those that are obviously not done by the student.

 

[littlezar]

I don't think the project itself is over the top, but I do think the timing stinks. I don't really remember any of my boys having less than 2 weeks for any projects over the years.

One of my boys would have had a hard time doing this project in 2nd grade but he was my one that wasn't reading on grade level and always had a hard time with writing in his daily journal. This year he has a major project each quarter that counts for 25% of his grade. There are a bunch of things to choose from - research papers, powerpoint, projects that involve some research and then creating posters, ads, etc. The project he just completed for the 2nd quarter was doing 10 hours of community service, write a paper about what he did and have the hours signed off by someone in charge where he volunteered. He chose to volunteer at the Ronald McDonald House over doing a paper. Turned out to be a really good choice because we plan on volunteering there on a monthly basis now!

 

[Mkrop]

Well, one of us does. You said of my quoted remarks that you 'totally disagreed' but I said I was OK with help, but with the vast majority of it being done by the child. So I guess what you meant was that you agree with me.

Oh and I guess our school is different than yours, I do assist and reinforce, but my kids' school teaches them about writing, punctuation, grammar, etc. So honestly except for reminders and support, they should be able to do it mostly independently.

As long as your child is doing the work, I have no problem with it. But since you have one in 7th - I am SURE you have run into the type of projects to which I refer - those that are obviously not done by the student.

Then why was you next remark that you feared what kind of parent I was if you agreed with what I said about helping

And no I have not seen many projects that have been done by parents, at least not in my kids grades,and in the later grades most projects are now being completed in class excpet the over the break Christmas cell project Although my neighbor warned me about one lady who goes overboard helping her kid, so now I am curious Her younger son is now in DS8's class so I will be curious to see what they come up with.