OT: 2nd grade project a bit much?

[elainesj]

Ugh I hate "parent projects". Growing up, I remember pretty much handling all my homework myself and I always assume that teachers assign work based on what the children could handle themselves without adult involvement (as there are always kids whose parents DON'T get involved..and how utterly unfair it is for them).

Sad to say...as far as I can tell, most things so far from Grade 1 to Grade 4 have been "parent projects". My older dd is a fabulous student...and it hasnt been until Grade 4 that she's been able to complete her homework without considerable parental assistance. My younger ds has speech and language difficulties...and believe me when I say homework at grade 3 takes at least 1-2 hours a day.

I remember Grade 2 homework where my dd would get a question OBVIOUSLY requiring a 3 paragraph answer. I would look at it and completely shake my head as 3 paragraphs is practically a major project for a Grade 2 kid...not a "short answer".

I always worked from the premise that teachers provide you just enough space for the length of answer they want from you. my dd's teachers tended to provide teeny weeny spaces and expect long, detailed answers.

The part I hate is when the teachers don't provide enough instructions. This affects my ds particularly as he has comprehension issues so doesn;t always take in what the teacher says in class. We had a meltdown last weekend and I couldn't figure out how on earth he should be doing his work. His teacher told him to do a procedural quick write. We have been doing a 1-2 paragraph story every week and then suddenly his paragraphs started coming back marked "wrong" as the format had changed (with no written instructions!!). well, my son had no clue what his teacher wanted...and with no instructions I had no clue either. It took me a while to convince him to write something..anything...to at least show he gave it his best attempt. we were both so frustrated.

 

[drcbpearce]

I never give my students projects that they don't have at least 2 weekends to complete the project. I know how busy families are, I have 2 kids myself.

Does the teacher have children who are in school, playing sports, etc? It makes a world of difference in what you assign and how much time you give when you are walking the walk!

Thank you for your consideration. I'm sure the families of your students appreciate it tremendously! DD's teacher is a single mom of a teenager. Her activities I have no knowledge of, so I really can't speak to that. I think I'm just frustrated and disappointed that we were given such a short timeframe to get this completed. TBH, it wasn't until Thurs that I read the packet (don't think I"m the only parent who doesn't immediately read everything that isnt' thrust under my nose!) Then DD was home sick from school Friday and library closed Sun/Mon, etc.

 

[drcbpearce]

It's very appropriate for 2d grade and the time frame isn't bad, EXCEPT for the part about having to go to an outside library and get a book over a holiday weekend when the library is closed. My kids can't walk to any library, so I have to take them. That would usually be a weekend, not a weeknight for various reasons. If the library is closed and/or the family had plans over the holiday weekend, that would be a serious problem for us. I think the teacher probably doesn't have multiple kids and doesn't understand the scheduling issues for family. IMO, she should have made sure the kids could get a book at the school library -- not an outside library.

Otherwise, I think the work is fine. I've had 3 second-graders and they have all had "famous Americans" projects that required a Power-point presentation, a demonstrative (my son did Thomas Edison and made a home-made lightbulb), a short paper, and an in-class speech.

If they'd been given the opportunity to check out books from the school library and bring them home, that would've helped. My DD really doesn't give a hoot either way about this project. has no clue as to why she's doing it. Our library closes at 5 on Sat and is closed Sun/Mon this wknd. I probably wouldn't be so unhappy if the timing were different.

 

[drcbpearce]

i agree with this. I am a mother first, elementary teacher second. I don't assign home projects, because many times they become parent projects and authentic learning is not going on. I've read this thread with interest, and have a couple of questions/comments to make.
-for true learning to occur, the child must realize the importance and relevance of the assignment to his/her own life. As op stated, her child has not shown any interest in the subject. Frankly, although she can sing and perform, what true impact has carrie underwood had on society? Ben franklin, yes, but carrie underwood? Really?my thoughts exactly. I think the attraction is that she grew up a few hours from our home.
-has the child been taught what true research is? Does she know how to use nonfiction text? Has the teacher shown the class how to be safe internet users?i do not really think she knows what research is, i haven't asked her yet (she's asleep now) but i will. I'm pretty certain she doesn't know plagiarism is wrong.
-has the child been taught how to paraphrase the information she finds? I laughed at the post that suggested just printing off material and letting her write about it. A second grader generally does not understand how to paraphrase. Plagiarism is still illegal, and therefore mom would have to help out there.
-was a rubric given? What are the expectations of each part of the project?
-the time given to work on the report sounds more like poor planning on the part of the teacher. Yes, i understand scope and sequence. I teach to the rule every day. I still believe it is unrealistic to expect a second grader to go home every night, after her "work day", and work some more. How many of us like to do that? thank you for that as well. It was one of my thoughts also. I certainly don't want to work the wknds, i can't imagine that she would either! apparently not many of us, because we spend lots of time on the dis!

:d

 

[drcbpearce]

I'm going to agree wholeheartedly.

Could it be that YOU are assuming that the teacher is expecting a much more polished project than perhaps she is? I know I made that mistake with my first child and sometimes gave perhaps more assistance/direction than I should have. Like the above poster said, she is 7/8 years old and the project should therefore LOOK like a 7/8 year old did it.

I can assure you the projects my 3 boys do (will do) look alot different than hers did. They are on their own! LOL

I happen to love projects. I think kids get alot more out of projects than they do memorizing facts for some silly test (facts that will often leave their heads before the school year is out - there is a reason most adults are never "Smarter Than a 5th Grader" LOL). A project requires them to really get into a topic. What a natural (and generally much more interesting) way to learn.

Good luck. I hear ya. And I agree. Too much focus on trying to make the schools look good. Funny how most adults complain that kids 'these days' are without a clue in life....can't make change, can't spell, can't craft a letter etc. etc.? Makes you wonder what exactly all this pushing is really accomplishing LOL

IDK that she's expecting anything polished, it won't be. I'm letting her have as much control as I can. My problem is that my DD is not quite at the reading level she needs to be and still struggles with fluency in her reading. We work on it daily, but that lends itself to my having to assist in many other ways than I'd have to if she was on level.

 

[drcbpearce]

I would have loved an easy project like this in 2nd grade. I can't remember her projects in 2nd grade (I was pg, dh delt with most of them). But for 3rd grade she had to memorize every state in the US and EVERY country in the world INCLUDING Spelling. We're talking close to 300 states countries!

I know in 2nd grade she was doing research & book reports that were 2+ pages.


Our teacher purposly assigns all homework on Friday because and I quote "you have all weekend". She also assigns harder assignments for long weekends/ 1/2 days because they have more time. Our weekends are very packed with sports, church etc so this is very inconvient for us. But it is what it is. At least I know what day to expect homework to come home.

Good Lord! Ok, that is way over the top, the country project. Honestly. And the whole assigning homework over the wknd in 3rd grade? That is just flat out mean and spiteful, pretending to be helpful. I wonder how she'd appreciate being given a report that had to be completed on the weekend when she had so many things planned! Sheesh!

 

[pacrosby]

IDK that she's expecting anything polished, it won't be. I'm letting her have as much control as I can. My problem is that my DD is not quite at the reading level she needs to be and still struggles with fluency in her reading. We work on it daily, but that lends itself to my having to assist in many other ways than I'd have to if she was on level.

Well sounds like you are handling it right. I just didn't know if you were thinking that it 'needed' to be more polished than it will likely be.

I do have a suggestion. Have dd do whatever she can do, primarily on her own, and then have her pass it in with a letter to the teacher on Tuesday. Explain your concerns. Don't be afraid to be frank.

If she's a reasonable teacher she will listen to you. Maybe she'll explain her expectations more clearly to you and then allow dd another day or so. Even if she doesn't, at least she'll have a better idea as to the circumstances that may have had a negative impact on your child's performance.

 

[drcbpearce]

To me, this sounds like a three or four week assignment with probably several weeks of preteaching involved.

If I were teaching this with 2nd graders, notice would be going out in my newsletter that we were learning this skill. It would include some info about our class project so far and a heads up that each child needed to be choosing a topic for their own project.

Then, the first week's homework would include finding their topic and writing their 10 fact sentences. (Some time would be dedicated to this in class as well.) The next week would be writing the first draft of their report. The following week would be making their visual aide. (In class that week, we would be editing, etc.)

Yes, my own kids did projects in second grade. Happily, they had great teachers who broke down the projects step by step and taught them how to organize themselves for success. This enabled them to be doing projects on their own when they were in the upper grades.

Oh thank you for confirming that a 'heads up' is not a myth! The timeline you have laid out for the project would make much more sense. If DD's was done partially in class and partially at home and they'd been able to check books out from the school library, my life would be infinitely easier. As it is, DD is not reading on level, therefore, DH and I get to assist her in reading the info. Does she know what research is? I doubt it. I plan on asking her tomorrow, though. I"m curious now!

 

[drcbpearce]

I only read one page of responses and based on those, I know I am in the minority, but my kids didn't have projects like that in first grade. My kids weren't that good at reading in 1st grade to be able to truly research without it being mostly their dad and I doing the research for them. I wouldn't be totally opposed to a project like this, if the teacher was able to send home some non fiction age appropriate books for each kid. Finding age appropriate books for that age level is difficult. Given that the kids would a need a lot of help from parents, I think a deadline of a week or two would have been better.

I'm in your boat. DD isn't reading on level and still struggles. we work on it daily, but that still requires DH and I to assist her with the vast majority of this project. TBPH, I could really care less about Carrie Underwood. She's a beautiful young lady who sings country music, and that's pretty much it. If it were an interesting historical figure, I think I'd be a bit happier. DD's BFF chose Rosa Parks.

 

[jodifla]

Ugh I hate "parent projects". Growing up, I remember pretty much handling all my homework myself and I always assume that teachers assign work based on what the children could handle themselves without adult involvement (as there are always kids whose parents DON'T get involved..and how utterly unfair it is for them).

Sad to say...as far as I can tell, most things so far from Grade 1 to Grade 4 have been "parent projects". My older dd is a fabulous student...and it hasnt been until Grade 4 that she's been able to complete her homework without considerable parental assistance. My younger ds has speech and language difficulties...and believe me when I say homework at grade 3 takes at least 1-2 hours a day.

I remember Grade 2 homework where my dd would get a question OBVIOUSLY requiring a 3 paragraph answer. I would look at it and completely shake my head as 3 paragraphs is practically a major project for a Grade 2 kid...not a "short answer".

I always worked from the premise that teachers provide you just enough space for the length of answer they want from you. my dd's teachers tended to provide teeny weeny spaces and expect long, detailed answers.

The part I hate is when the teachers don't provide enough instructions. This affects my ds particularly as he has comprehension issues so doesn;t always take in what the teacher says in class. We had a meltdown last weekend and I couldn't figure out how on earth he should be doing his work. His teacher told him to do a procedural quick write. We have been doing a 1-2 paragraph story every week and then suddenly his paragraphs started coming back marked "wrong" as the format had changed (with no written instructions!!). well, my son had no clue what his teacher wanted...and with no instructions I had no clue either. It took me a while to convince him to write something..anything...to at least show he gave it his best attempt. we were both so frustrated.

I agree....these project are largely parent affairs. First of all, they are elaborate enough that you need a parent ...and their bankroll...to do them.

When I was growing up, I don't remember any projects until about 7th grade, except for book reports and other written projects. I was able to do my own work. The projects we're assigned today absolutely need a parent's help for research and materials....printing out pictures? researching on the Internet? Not everybody has a home computer.


I remember watching a good friend of mine do a solar system project with her daughter in 3rd grade. My friend was doing at least 50 percent of it.

 

[Hannathy]

My kids always had homework on the weekends.


I think part of the problem is that your DD is not reading on level because for a child reading on level this wouldn't be that big of a deal to do in a week. Get a book or 2 from the library read them go to a couple articles on the internet read them. Take some notes, find your 10 facts. and write your report. The teacher is assigning this based on children reading on level. If you have a week why is it so critical to go to the library this weekend?

As someone else said if she isn't very familiar with the computer she should start now because she is going to need it more and more. Encourage her to go to some kids websites and play around because it won't be long before power points, getting most of her info from the internet and typing all her papers.

My kids do worms in 4th, Cows eyes in 5th grade and a Pigs heart in 6th as far as dissecting and they also did the scat in 3rd grade.

 

[pacrosby]

My kids always had homework on the weekends.


I think part of the problem is that your DD is not reading on level because for a child reading on level this wouldn't be that big of a deal to do in a week. Get a book or 2 from the library read them go to a couple articles on the internet read them. Take some notes, find your 10 facts. and write your report. The teacher is assigning this based on children reading on level. If you have a week why is it so critical to go to the library this weekend?

As someone else said if she isn't very familiar with the computer she should start now because she is going to need it more and more. Encourage her to go to some kids websites and play around because it won't be long before power points, getting most of her info from the internet and typing all her papers.

My kids do worms in 4th, Cows eyes in 5th grade and a Pigs heart in 6th as far as dissecting and they also did the scat in 3rd grade.

I can only HOPE that the school would not assign a power point presentation before teaching children how to do one in computer class. That, like others have said, is like putting the cart before the horse.

My kids are introduced to the computer in K but don't start learning how to 'use' it for learning and research until they enter the upper elementary school in 3rd grade. No matter how much we might balk, there are STILL families that don't have computers. While I think in middle school and beyond kids should just be expected to hit the library, an elementary school child? I would only hope a teacher would be more reasonable.

 

[Nicolepa]

Is your DD in public school? Or is it Montessori school,etc? Good grief, I am not smarter then even a 3rd grader, US and every country? with correct spelling?

She is in a public school. It was a gifted class but it was still WAAAAAY over the top. The teacher she had in 1st & 2nd had the motto, "Just because they can, doesn't mean they should", her 3rd grade teacher was crazy. Very young and had the attitude that if they could mentally do it they should. Gave many, many projects that were way above the maturity of a 3rd grader. They did a continent a week w/all of them for the final. They were tested on the final I think 3x because the teacher wanted to make sure they didn't memorize it for the test and then dump it. It was crazy. We had lots and lots of tears that year!

For 4th grade she changed schools, and ended up with a very experienced teacher. She had to memorize all 50 states and the capitals. She said "mom this is so easy." LOL.

 

[Nicolepa]

Good Lord! Ok, that is way over the top, the country project. Honestly. And the whole assigning homework over the wknd in 3rd grade? That is just flat out mean and spiteful, pretending to be helpful. I wonder how she'd appreciate being given a report that had to be completed on the weekend when she had so many things planned! Sheesh!

My daughter ended up changing schools for 4th grade. But the other class they were told because they already knew all the countries they had to do the capitals. So add another 200+ capitals to the 200+ countries (with spelling).

 

[RMulieri]

My 1st grader has had to do projects already .She also has a sizable amount of homework all week and weekends and this is a public school as well.Its not like it used to be when we were kids.I don't think that is OTT for a 2nd grader, yes it will require alot of parental involvement, but thats going to happen in the younger grades..You should see what the 3rd,4th and 5th graders are being sent home with these days..I almost had a stroke when my 5th grade neighbor should me some of her assignments

 

[bellebud]

If I'm expected to be the teacher I may as well pull them out and homeschool (don't think I don't think about it......often)

this is one of the main reasons I DID pull mine out (in 2nd and 4th grades), and we homeschool (for 2 years now). Best thing we ever did!!

I was expected to be their teacher, so I thought "ok, no problem, I WILL be their teacher", but instead of doing it from 4pm to bedtime when they're tired, grumpy and just *done* with school-type stuff (and then on the weekends too), we simply now do it whenever it suits us. It's awesome... if you're thinking of it, I'd really give it some serious research and thought.

we do projects that are 100% relevant to each child and what they find interesting at that moment (because that is when they actually learn something - not just memorizing facts for a couple of days to spew back on a test), field trips galore, travel a whole bunch, take classes w/ other homeschoolers (right now science, shakespeare and art), have science fairs, art fairs, around the world night, put on shakespeare plays, do community service projects, etc, w/ our homeschool group, have weekly park day w/ our homeschool group (70 families in our group) - oh, and we even have an awesome yearbook. We go to the library a lot, the kids take gymnastics, dd11 takes an extra art class during the week, they have sleepovers in the middle of the week w/ their homeschool friends (and non-homeschool friends on the weekends), we do everything off-season (cheaper and less crowded everywhere!)... in early Dec we went to Great Wolf Lodge in PA for 5 days w/ about 20 homeschool families for CHEAP (homeschool rates). ahhhh, it's the life

I can't recommend it enough for anyone thinking of doing it.

 

[drcbpearce]

My daughter ended up changing schools for 4th grade. But the other class they were told because they already knew all the countries they had to do the capitals. So add another 200+ capitals to the 200+ countries (with spelling).

That sounds like the case of the teacher previously teaching to upper grades and suddenly in a classroom of younger kids and not realizing the differences in age-appropriate projects. My algebra teacher in 9th grade thought she was teaching college and life was miserable. I barely scraped out a C- and was thrilled.

 

[drcbpearce]

My kids always had homework on the weekends.


I think part of the problem is that your DD is not reading on level because for a child reading on level this wouldn't be that big of a deal to do in a week. Get a book or 2 from the library read them go to a couple articles on the internet read them. Take some notes, find your 10 facts. and write your report. The teacher is assigning this based on children reading on level. If you have a week why is it so critical to go to the library this weekend?

As someone else said if she isn't very familiar with the computer she should start now because she is going to need it more and more. Encourage her to go to some kids websites and play around because it won't be long before power points, getting most of her info from the internet and typing all her papers.

My kids do worms in 4th, Cows eyes in 5th grade and a Pigs heart in 6th as far as dissecting and they also did the scat in 3rd grade.

DD's reading level is an issue. What you wrote, get the books, read them, get to the internet site, sound reasonable in theory. Maybe your 2nd graders would've been able to stay on task and do that, but mine likely wouldn't. I'm not trying to discount her skills at all, I just know her abilities now. Maybe she could do it in 3rd grade, but not now.

The whole wknd library visit was bc, honestly, I didn't realize we were supposed to go to the library until the wknd, after the library was closed for the following 2 days. which will leave us 1 day to get a book or two before the project is due. Yes, partly my fault, I should've read the instructions better.

 

[ancestry]

I have not read this whole thread and am only responding to the initial post.

I have twins that are in 3rd grade this year. They had to do a similar project last year when they were in second grade for biography week. Neither had a problem completing it mostly without my help.

In my opinion, what you posted sounds like a perfectly reasonable project for 2nd grade. By 2nd grade the student should be able to do most of this on their own.

 

[drcbpearce]

this is one of the main reasons I DID pull mine out (in 2nd and 4th grades), and we homeschool (for 2 years now). Best thing we ever did!!

I was expected to be their teacher, so I thought "ok, no problem, I WILL be their teacher", but instead of doing it from 4pm to bedtime when they're tired, grumpy and just *done* with school-type stuff (and then on the weekends too), we simply now do it whenever it suits us. It's awesome... if you're thinking of it, I'd really give it some serious research and thought.

we do projects that are 100% relevant to each child and what they find interesting at that moment (because that is when they actually learn something - not just memorizing facts for a couple of days to spew back on a test), field trips galore, travel a whole bunch, take classes w/ other homeschoolers (right now science, shakespeare and art), have science fairs, art fairs, around the world night, put on shakespeare plays, do community service projects, etc, w/ our homeschool group, have weekly park day w/ our homeschool group (70 families in our group) - oh, and we even have an awesome yearbook. We go to the library a lot, the kids take gymnastics, dd11 takes an extra art class during the week, they have sleepovers in the middle of the week w/ their homeschool friends (and non-homeschool friends on the weekends), we do everything off-season (cheaper and less crowded everywhere!)... in early Dec we went to Great Wolf Lodge in PA for 5 days w/ about 20 homeschool families for CHEAP (homeschool rates). ahhhh, it's the life

I can't recommend it enough for anyone thinking of doing it.

To quote an Aussie phrase, 'Goodonya!' I commend anyone who truly homeschools their kids and doesnt' just keep them home for convenience. Your children will be well rounded and that is fantastic. I'm sure they are very happy as well. I don't know that I have the patience to be my children's teacher 24/7. But kudos to those who do!