OT - 2nd grade discipline?

[dipin]

Sorry I haven't posted - seem to be doing fine without me! I don't mind a diffrence in opinion.

Will try to answer the many criticisms:
1.Punish by the elements - say that because while the monitors are in the shade (yes there are trees where the monitors wait) the kids are being forced to stand on a crack in full sun - so not just missing recess but in full sun when there is another option that isn't too inconvient for the monitors because they would then be next to them.

2.Son playing me - DS doesn't even know we are having these issues. We say nothing negative about the school (that up till now we loved) or his teacher when he is even home. We are very careful about that. DS isn't playing us - I am the one disturbed by this - not him. He is pretty oblivious to anything like that. Everyday we chat about his day and I figure out what is going on.

3.DS asthma - heat and allergy induced. From Aug - Nov he usually most sensitive. First time this year had to use is inhaler - yes he has one at school. He never says when he doesn't feel well. It was an orange quality day - on those days all asthmatic in DS school are supposed to be watched closely. DS has been doing awesome so that day caught me be suprise - and him. Doesn't matter - I think if I wouldn't punish DS that way the school certianly has no right to. I am the final authority for DS.

4.Discipline problem - We reinforce the school. We have a chart at home. Whenever he gets three good days of behavior he gets to chart it. When he gets three of those he is awarded. Two days without a sticker equals no cartoons for two days. Three equals no ps2 or cartoons over the weekend. Age appropriate punishment. We are not fooled by DS - we see who is and if we don't my family will quickly tell me! We remind him every single morning...

5.Chain of command - DS teacher sends home a planner each day with a sticker or no sticker with a note and DS is to write his homework in it - parents are to sign it evernight. If parents don't sign the kid misses 5 minutes of recess. We were directed to make any communication with her through this planner. This is where I made my request - per her instructions. I am expected to sign and acknowledge this each night as is she according to her policy. She should have contacted me - sent my email, and two seperate numbers and checked for notes.

I was glad to get info about other schools and there protocols from my fellow disers. I use to have so much faith in the school system. I belong to two other forums and between these three I get to read a lot of teachers posts. Some inspire me the way teachers should. Too many others have made me realize the system is only as good as the people in it. I think to blindly trust when it comes to our kids is asking entirely too much.

As I said before, if what your son had was an asthma attack, it was actually better for him that he wasn't running around and playing. Heat induced asthma is not caused by the sun, so standing in the sun had no relation to it. In addition, I doubt that standing in the MO sun for ten minutes is punishment by the elements.


As far as you being the final authority for your son, that is only true when he is with you. As long as they are within the limits set by law, schools can discipline students however they please, and if you don't like it you can put him in another school or homeschool him.

And you've yet to answer the question many have asked: standing outside is a health risk for him, but playing outside is ok? Because Im quite sure that there are no heat or sun related medical conditions where standing around in an environment is harmful, but running around and playing in that same environment isn't.

 

[Leajess99]

Sorry I haven't posted - seem to be doing fine without me! I don't mind a diffrence in opinion.

Will try to answer the many criticisms:
1.Punish by the elements - say that because while the monitors are in the shade (yes there are trees where the monitors wait) the kids are being forced to stand on a crack in full sun - so not just missing recess but in full sun when there is another option that isn't too inconvient for the monitors because they would then be next to them.

2.Son playing me - DS doesn't even know we are having these issues. We say nothing negative about the school (that up till now we loved) or his teacher when he is even home. We are very careful about that. DS isn't playing us - I am the one disturbed by this - not him. He is pretty oblivious to anything like that. Everyday we chat about his day and I figure out what is going on.

3.DS asthma - heat and allergy induced. From Aug - Nov he usually most sensitive. First time this year had to use is inhaler - yes he has one at school. He never says when he doesn't feel well. It was an orange quality day - on those days all asthmatic in DS school are supposed to be watched closely. DS has been doing awesome so that day caught me be suprise - and him. Doesn't matter - I think if I wouldn't punish DS that way the school certianly has no right to. I am the final authority for DS.

4.Discipline problem - We reinforce the school. We have a chart at home. Whenever he gets three good days of behavior he gets to chart it. When he gets three of those he is awarded. Two days without a sticker equals no cartoons for two days. Three equals no ps2 or cartoons over the weekend. Age appropriate punishment. We are not fooled by DS - we see who is and if we don't my family will quickly tell me! We remind him every single morning...

5.Chain of command - DS teacher sends home a planner each day with a sticker or no sticker with a note and DS is to write his homework in it - parents are to sign it evernight. If parents don't sign the kid misses 5 minutes of recess. We were directed to make any communication with her through this planner. This is where I made my request - per her instructions. I am expected to sign and acknowledge this each night as is she according to her policy. She should have contacted me - sent my email, and two seperate numbers and checked for notes.

I was glad to get info about other schools and there protocols from my fellow disers. I use to have so much faith in the school system. I belong to two other forums and between these three I get to read a lot of teachers posts. Some inspire me the way teachers should. Too many others have made me realize the system is only as good as the people in it. I think to blindly trust when it comes to our kids is asking entirely too much.

You do realize that the only way you are the final authority on the discipline of your child while at school is to homeschool right?? You have once again proven that you do not feel your child should be punsihed and by the way did you know that Missouri still allows for Corporal punishment?? http://dese.mo.gov/schoollaw/freqaskques/Discipline.htm

As for your claims about the asthma and such, please save it because as a mother of 2 children with asthma and allergies your justification is flawed. A child standing in the sun is less likely to have an asthma attack than a child playing on the playground. I have worked in enough classes and with my own children and know full well that you have made more excuses for why the school should not punish your child than anything. If your child is so far affected by the sun than they should NOT be going outside at all and should be required to remain indoors so as to not be at risk. Since you have not requested your child be kept indoors it continues to appear you do not want him punished at all.

And finally, in reference to writing a note in his planner, do you even realize how many planners that teacher sees in a day. I write notes to the teachers and place them in the child's folder so I know the teacher will see it and remember which child it belongs to. Shoot for my 6th grader I wrote a note for EVERYONE of her teachers about my child not being there on Friday and should they need to contact me the best way to do it. I am proactive with the school and my children know that the school's punishment stands. You can say your child does not know what you are doing but rest assured he probably does. Shoot, I actually wonder how many of the staff are getting a laugh at you and your reasoning. Sorry but way too many teachers end up being stressed even more after dealing with parents like you. No way will ever be the right way for them to discipline your child because you will find something wrong in all of it.

 

[EveDallas]

Wow, here the president thinks that longer days and school years would help kids learn better. Huh, I think that if kids who are being naughty were in more trouble at home BECAUSE they got in trouble at school instead of being coddled at home, I bet our schools would be a whole lot better. THINK of the time teachers could spend actually teaching instead of dealing with discipline problems.

I agree 100% with this. My dad always taught us that if we got in trouble at school (for anything), it would be much worse at home. Guess what - my siblings and I rarely got in trouble at school.

 

[badblackpug]

Sorry I haven't posted - seem to be doing fine without me! I don't mind a diffrence in opinion.

Will try to answer the many criticisms:
1.Punish by the elements - say that because while the monitors are in the shade (yes there are trees where the monitors wait) the kids are being forced to stand on a crack in full sun - so not just missing recess but in full sun when there is another option that isn't too inconvient for the monitors because they would then be next to them.

2.Son playing me - DS doesn't even know we are having these issues. We say nothing negative about the school (that up till now we loved) or his teacher when he is even home. We are very careful about that. DS isn't playing us - I am the one disturbed by this - not him. He is pretty oblivious to anything like that. Everyday we chat about his day and I figure out what is going on.

3.DS asthma - heat and allergy induced. From Aug - Nov he usually most sensitive. First time this year had to use is inhaler - yes he has one at school. He never says when he doesn't feel well. It was an orange quality day - on those days all asthmatic in DS school are supposed to be watched closely. DS has been doing awesome so that day caught me be suprise - and him. Doesn't matter - I think if I wouldn't punish DS that way the school certianly has no right to. I am the final authority for DS.

4.Discipline problem - We reinforce the school. We have a chart at home. Whenever he gets three good days of behavior he gets to chart it. When he gets three of those he is awarded. Two days without a sticker equals no cartoons for two days. Three equals no ps2 or cartoons over the weekend. Age appropriate punishment. We are not fooled by DS - we see who is and if we don't my family will quickly tell me! We remind him every single morning...

5.Chain of command - DS teacher sends home a planner each day with a sticker or no sticker with a note and DS is to write his homework in it - parents are to sign it evernight. If parents don't sign the kid misses 5 minutes of recess. We were directed to make any communication with her through this planner. This is where I made my request - per her instructions. I am expected to sign and acknowledge this each night as is she according to her policy. She should have contacted me - sent my email, and two seperate numbers and checked for notes.

I was glad to get info about other schools and there protocols from my fellow disers. I use to have so much faith in the school system. I belong to two other forums and between these three I get to read a lot of teachers posts. Some inspire me the way teachers should. Too many others have made me realize the system is only as good as the people in it. I think to blindly trust when it comes to our kids is asking entirely too much.

The part I bolded is the part that really doesn't make sense to me. What you are saying is, basically, that the school shouldn't use any method of discipline that is not used in the home. Well, there are parents who DO NOT discipline in the home at all. Does this mean that the school should not discipline these children at all? I know parents who do not discipline because they are just that lazy and don't feel like dealing with the child's behavior, and I know parents who don't discipline because they don't believe in it. They "discuss" their child's behavior and the "cause" of their behavior, but there are never any real consequences for that behavior. Incidentally, these are always the kids that are acting up.

By the way, my kids school is the same as a PP's school. The punishment is losing recess. The entire recess. I never thought to ask my kids where they had to stand when they lost recess, I didn't care, I was angry enough at them for acting up and losing recess. ...and you bet there were consequences at home for getting in trouble at school.

 

[kevschickee]

You do realize that the only way you are the final authority on the discipline of your child while at school is to homeschool right?? You have once again proven that you do not feel your child should be punsihed and by the way did you know that Missouri still allows for Corporal punishment?? http://dese.mo.gov/schoollaw/freqaskques/Discipline.htm

As for your claims about the asthma and such, please save it because as a mother of 2 children with asthma and allergies your justification is flawed. A child standing in the sun is less likely to have an asthma attack than a child playing on the playground. I have worked in enough classes and with my own children and know full well that you have made more excuses for why the school should not punish your child than anything. If your child is so far affected by the sun than they should NOT be going outside at all and should be required to remain indoors so as to not be at risk. Since you have not requested your child be kept indoors it continues to appear you do not want him punished at all.

And finally, in reference to writing a note in his planner, do you even realize how many planners that teacher sees in a day. I write notes to the teachers and place them in the child's folder so I know the teacher will see it and remember which child it belongs to. Shoot for my 6th grader I wrote a note for EVERYONE of her teachers about my child not being there on Friday and should they need to contact me the best way to do it. I am proactive with the school and my children know that the school's punishment stands. You can say your child does not know what you are doing but rest assured he probably does. Shoot, I actually wonder how many of the staff are getting a laugh at you and your reasoning. Sorry but way too many teachers end up being stressed even more after dealing with parents like you. No way will ever be the right way for them to discipline your child because you will find something wrong in all of it.

I agree

 

[Leajess99]

I agree 100% with this. My dad always taught us that if we got in trouble at school (for anything), it would be much worse at home. Guess what - my siblings and I rarely got in trouble at school.

It was the same way with me growing up aas well as with my children. My kids know they will be in trouble at home as well if they get in trouble in school.

 

[princessmom29]

Sorry I haven't posted - seem to be doing fine without me! I don't mind a diffrence in opinion.

Will try to answer the many criticisms:
1.Punish by the elements - say that because while the monitors are in the shade (yes there are trees where the monitors wait) the kids are being forced to stand on a crack in full sun - so not just missing recess but in full sun when there is another option that isn't too inconvient for the monitors because they would then be next to them.

2.Son playing me - DS doesn't even know we are having these issues. We say nothing negative about the school (that up till now we loved) or his teacher when he is even home. We are very careful about that. DS isn't playing us - I am the one disturbed by this - not him. He is pretty oblivious to anything like that. Everyday we chat about his day and I figure out what is going on.

3.DS asthma - heat and allergy induced. From Aug - Nov he usually most sensitive. First time this year had to use is inhaler - yes he has one at school. He never says when he doesn't feel well. It was an orange quality day - on those days all asthmatic in DS school are supposed to be watched closely. DS has been doing awesome so that day caught me be suprise - and him. Doesn't matter - I think if I wouldn't punish DS that way the school certianly has no right to. I am the final authority for DS.

4.Discipline problem - We reinforce the school. We have a chart at home. Whenever he gets three good days of behavior he gets to chart it. When he gets three of those he is awarded. Two days without a sticker equals no cartoons for two days. Three equals no ps2 or cartoons over the weekend. Age appropriate punishment. We are not fooled by DS - we see who is and if we don't my family will quickly tell me! We remind him every single morning...

5.Chain of command - DS teacher sends home a planner each day with a sticker or no sticker with a note and DS is to write his homework in it - parents are to sign it evernight. If parents don't sign the kid misses 5 minutes of recess. We were directed to make any communication with her through this planner. This is where I made my request - per her instructions. I am expected to sign and acknowledge this each night as is she according to her policy. She should have contacted me - sent my email, and two seperate numbers and checked for notes.

I was glad to get info about other schools and there protocols from my fellow disers. I use to have so much faith in the school system. I belong to two other forums and between these three I get to read a lot of teachers posts. Some inspire me the way teachers should. Too many others have made me realize the system is only as good as the people in it. I think to blindly trust when it comes to our kids is asking entirely too much.

Sorry to say it, but as long as they are within the bounds of the law, the school has the final say on their method of discipline while the child is there, NOT THE PARENT. If you don't like it you have 2 choices. another school or homeschool. I honestly don't think your realize it, but you are validating your child's behavior with your actions, and saying that he has no idea is just not realistic. He has some clue what is going on wether your realize it or not. It is obvious form his actions. HE KNOWS you don't agree with what the teacher is trying to do, and is playing on end against the middle. Otherwise, he would not continue with the behavior. Please, please let your child take responsibility for his actions and live with the consequences. I see every day what happens to kids whose parents continually step in to "fix it" for them. They have NO sense of presonaly responsibility for anything, and often end up in more trouble than mom can bail them out of. At the very least they have a hard time living with the fact that I as a high school teacher am not going to cave to Mommy calling, emailing, or coming to the school to explain why Johnny didn't do his homework, was texting in class, should be allowed to retake a test, doesn't really deserve that D or whatever else he did, and why it is ok for him to do it because of some special circumstance. These kids typically really struggle because they have never been held accountable. Rules are rules and everyone must follow them. The earlier he learns that the better off he will be. My DD5 knows better than to try the excuses bit on me. She knows I will back her teacher 100% on any discipline issue, and there will be consequences at home for bad behavior at school. We rarely have problems.

 

[Mouse House Mama]

Your repsonse is absolutely hysterical. I guess the next time your child misbehaves they should bust out a recliner, a frosty beverage, a fan and a waitstaff to serve him? Please.

Your kid isn't listening. The end. If he is so ill that he cannot stand still for 10 minutes outside then you should keep him inside all the time. I certainly hope you never plan to go to WDW. How will he be able to go anywhere when he is there? He might have to (gasp!) wait on line in the sun!

I am sorry but this type of parenting annoys me to no end. Precious snowflake acted up and now Mommy is mad because the kid got caught and punished. Give me a break. Keep making excuses etc. and I can guarantee you that other parents will steer clear of you both. Who in their right mind would want to get involved with the parent who has a problem with everything and thinks their child (even when they are wrong) deserves no consequences? Good luck. I think you would be better off homeschooling so your child can do as he pleases and you will be much happier.

 

[WantToGoNow]

If your son's asthma is the issue and not you not wanting him punished for his wrongdoings, have your doctor write a note that says your child needs to stay indoors for recess for medical reasons. Then he can serve his punishment out of the sun. My kids' school has no a/c so punishment inside would be just as bad as outside.

BTW my son's asthma is really bad and has been flared since school started - I'm sure it's a combination of heat and weather changes but we deal with as we need to. If his wheezing doesn't stop in the next 4 weeks, he will be starting shots at the Pulminologist every 2 weeks because his asthma is no longer controlled with meds/inhalers and he's on steriods way too often.

 

[tttessa]

Hiya all,

wow - I do feel for the poor OP...... Over here CP laws are soooo intermingled with the Human Rights Act that I'm sure it would actually be illegal to stand a child in the full sun for any length of time.

I wouldn't like my child to be stood out in full sun either, but I'd make da** sure my child knew that it was due to their own inappropriate behaviour and that I'd be disappointed if I heard they were ever out there again.

What concerns me about a lot of replies is - don't you all have any shaded play areas over there in the US??? We have shade, water fountains, compulsory hats - parents also apply all-day sunscreen before school - we get loads of skin cancer warnings etc. And we are in the UK - hardly the sun capital of the world.

Tessa

 

[rgf207]

I'm sorry but it's posts like this that bother me. Your DS has gotten in trouble multiple times and is now forced to stand outside during recess as a punishment. He is standing outside in Missouri. It's not the desert and it's not 110 degrees outside. I can't understand how you're upset about a punishment but perfectly fine with him playing ouside in the sun.

Stop coddling him fix the behavior issues. No behavior issues = no punishment. That' sthe bottom line. My wife teaches high school and there are many kids who have no responsibility for their actions all because of how the parents coddle them.

Just yesterday, a mother called the Board of Education on my wife because "The test she gave was too hard for her daughter and if her daughter failed there would be hell to pay." She called the board, not my wife (the teacher) or even the school. My wife teaches AP classes!!!

I'm sorry if I sound harsh but you and your DS need to take responsibility for your actions.

 

[Hannathy]

Thanks to the over abundance of lawyers most of our school playgrounds are open fields without trees and the equipment is also in the open on wood chips.

I'm curious what the OP will do when her snowflake misbehaves and has to stand in one place in the winter? Around here the kids do punishment by standing against the brick wall and when it is cold I think that would be a lot worse than if it was warm.
I think they will be hoping for sun 'cause our kids go outside until it is minus 15, either temp of -15 or sustained wind chill of -15. Used to be -20 when my DD was in elem, she's a SR now, but the snowflake parents started whining and now it is -15.

Haven't heard of a child being lost to the elements yet for standing against the wall.

 

[MomtoAlexnWilliam]

Thanks to the over abundance of lawyers most of our school playgrounds are open fields without trees and the equipment is also in the open on wood chips.

Hey, no need to insult us lawyers. We have tons of shade our playground and no wood chips!

To the OP, I think you are taking a beating here -- and some people are being downright mean in doing so. I don't think you've swept this behavior under the rug and ignored it like so many posters have stated as if it is fact. Good luck with finding what consequences work to get your son behaving in class!

 

[PrincessKsMom]

Is it really worth saying anything?

 

[Wendy31]

Huh...

My DS, who's in 3rd grade, also has asthma - triggered mainly by seasonal allergies. I'd actually PREFER him to get in trouble & HAVE to stand still at recess - shade or no shade. At least then, he'd be still & not running pell-mell around the playground during allergy season. (Of course, if he actually did miss part of his recess, he'd get in trouble at home too, and he knows this &,therefore, behaves accordingly at school.)

Many times, I'll remind him that he doesn't have to run as fast as he can & to take it easy at recess - I know I shouldn't, & his pediatrician has told me that I can't "baby" him. But, alas, I worry...

My point... That standing still for 10 minutes in the sun triggers asthmatic reactions in your son makes no sense to me. Seriously, if my son was getting sick after standing in the sun for 10 minutes, I'd be worried about a lot more than whether or not he was being punished "in the elements".

FWIW, our school's "punishment" for elementary-aged (grades 1-5) students is standing along the fence of the playground at recess (5-15 minutes depending upon how many "marks" the student has gotten during the school day). Depending upon the time of day, sometimes the fence is in the sun, and sometimes it's not.

From what you've written, my only problem would be your son's teacher not responding to you & the lack of communication after your request. I'm a former teacher, & I always tried really hard to stay in communication w/ my parents - especially if they had requested a response/reply from me. However, in your child's teacher's defense, there were always parents that I would have liked to have avoided as well.

 

[maxiesmom]

What concerns me about a lot of replies is - don't you all have any shaded play areas over there in the US??? We have shade, water fountains, compulsory hats - parents also apply all-day sunscreen before school - we get loads of skin cancer warnings etc. And we are in the UK - hardly the sun capital of the world.

Tessa

Actually they are encouraging us to get as much sunlite as we can, as the vitamin D in it will help us ward off the flu. And unless you are exceedingly fair, or standing next to the sun, 10 minutes is not a long enough time to get sunburn.

 

[MM27]

Imagine what 30 of those kids are like at 16, thow in the fact that 75% of them live in public housing, and have moms who had them at 14-16 and you have a small idea of what a day in my school is like!

That's my school too, but with fewer kids. I am always shocked when I hear that some teachers have 30+ kids. Where do you put them all? I have 22 4th graders and we're busting at the seams

Wow, here the president thinks that longer days and school years would help kids learn better. Huh, I think that if kids who are being naughty were in more trouble at home BECAUSE they got in trouble at school instead of being coddled at home, I bet our schools would be a whole lot better. THINK of the time teachers could spend actually teaching instead of dealing with discipline problems.

I've had parents like this before. I had one two years ago that asked me, "Is my son ever going to get to play at recess?" I said, "Sure, as soon as he realizes that we have rules in our classroom and he's not exempt" She didn't like that answer so she called my principal who pretty much told her the same thing.

 

[kevschickee]

That's my school too, but with fewer kids. I am always shocked when I hear that some teachers have 30+ kids. Where do you put them all? I have 22 4th graders and we're busting at the seams





I've had parents like this before. I had one two years ago that asked me, "Is my son ever going to get to play at recess?" I said, "Sure, as soon as he realizes that we have rules in our classroom and he's not exempt" She didn't like that answer so she called my principal who pretty much told her the same thing.

I am so glad the principle backed you. I think too many people back down from these types of parents just to shut them up and I think it is so wrong.

 

[princessmom29]

I am so glad the principle backed you. I think too many people back down from these types of parents just to shut them up and I think it is so wrong.

Exactly, you would not believe that number of parents who throw hissy fits in our office because we don't back down or give in.

 

[princessmom29]

That's my school too, but with fewer kids. I am always shocked when I hear that some teachers have 30+ kids. Where do you put them all? I have 22 4th graders and we're busting at the seams





I've had parents like this before. I had one two years ago that asked me, "Is my son ever going to get to play at recess?" I said, "Sure, as soon as he realizes that we have rules in our classroom and he's not exempt" She didn't like that answer so she called my principal who pretty much told her the same thing.

We put them where we can, and believe me classrooms are tight. 16 year old bodies take up more space! In some classes I have trouble just getting through the isles.