OT - 2nd grade discipline?

[Leajess99]

Recess is 15 minutes - it takes about 1 -2 minutes to walk out there. At most he played for 3 minutes..no he doesn't walk home nor does stand outside to wait for a bus. Genius, I wrote that I am dealing with it - not ignoring it. Obviously I am not making a big deal out of it - asking that he not stand in sun is reasonable with heat triggered asthma.

Sorry but again I think your child is playing you as a fool. Obviously HE DOES NOT CARE ABOUT RECESS or he would stop the talking out. You are giving the child excuses for why he should not be punished the same as other children are. My daughter stood in the sun as well for her WHOLE recess 5 days in a row due to recently having surgery (which by the way she had an asthma attack on the operating table while they were tubing her and they had a hard time getting her to breathe) and it did not bother her. She was not happy about being stuck with the kids who could not follow the rules (her words) but she survived. We have the exact same weather and temps as you since we are one state over.

I stood in many formations at Fort Bliss Texas, Ft Jackson SC, as well as here in the 100 degree temps and am here to tell about it. Also did PT in the same type of weather and temps. You are being way too dramatic but then again I am still seeing you do not feel his disruptive behavior should be punished and that a slap on the wrist is all he should get. My daughter is in 1st grade and even she knows there is an appropriate time for talking and she will tell kids like your son to be quiet if they are talking when she is trying to learn. My now 11 year old had the issues of yelling out the answer and talking but no excuses were made for her. She was told to stop and she knew the punishment.

 

[badblackpug]

I agree with the other posters. I don't think your son is being "punished with the elements" I think his punishment is missing recess, the area where the kids in time out stand happens to be in the sun. It sound to me like he didn't want to be in time out so he "needed" a drink. Kind of in the same way that a child suddenly needs a drink or 5 trips to the bathroom when it is time for them to go to bed. I think that your son is shading the circumstances in his direction. Truly, if his asthma is that sensitive to the heat, then any outdoor recess (whether on punishment or not) should be avoided in the warmer months.
As for the yelling out and talking maybe he needs to be evaluated for ADD.

 

[brockash]

To make a long story um...not as long:
DS 7 is getting in trouble for talking in class (not backtalking - calling out answers or just plain socializing) for which he has to move his card. The punishments are a warning, missing 1, 5, 10 minutes of recess, to a call home. Two weeks ago I found out that when he missed 10 minutes on several occassions he had to stand on the concrete playground on a crack in full sun (2:40 in the afternoon) for that time. I found this out after he had to lie down when he got home one day because he was sick. I asked him why did he think he was sick and he said "It was hot when I was standing on the crack and they wouldn't let me get a drink." Once I finally figured it out I spoke to the vice principal and she agreed it was inappropriate and said that kids in timeout could stand under a tree. Found out that it happened again after the vice principal spoke with the second grade "team" so I will be at the school tomorrow. I was wondering how 2nd graders are punished elsewhere? Punishing with the elements can't be the norm right? My peditrician said if I did this child protective services would be called. Not really enjoying this school year....

I agree that sounds rediculous for any age. At our school they have to miss some of their recess, but they stay inside, in the classroom, with one of the teachers not on recess duty.

 

[MomtoAlexnWilliam]

WOW! Some people here are really in attack mode.

To the OP, I think standing out in the full sun for 10 minutes on concrete is an inappropriate punishment. But I also think at issue is not hearing back from the teacher. In hindsight, I might have tried another way to contact her to make sure she got my email(s) before I went to the principal. I would also try to figure out why my child is misbehaving and disrupting class as often as he is when he had previously had 2 years of good behavior. Additionally, I would visit with my ped about the heat induced asthma and see what steps should be taken with regard to recess/activity in the heat.

As for water bottles...kids as young as pk4 take their water bottles on the playground on hot days at our school. It's not too young or too much to expect them to keep up with that one item. And with about 100 kids on the playground at any given time, it's not too much for our recess staff to supervise this. I think this simple act could reduce the number of kids getting overheated. I've seen some really red faces on kids after only 15 minutes of recess in the heat. They play HARD!

As for whether or not CPS/DHS would get involved if a parent did this type of punishment at home....it depends on the individual investigator. I think you'd have some who would find it inappropriate but not worthy of removal but then you'd have some who would find this highly inappropriate and recommend the removal of a child (this opinion is based on over 12 years of practicing law). Remember, right or wrong, they will generally err on the side of caution.

Regardless of my opinions, I hope you can figure this out with your child and the teacher! Here's to a better school year!!!!

 

[LuvBaloo]

I have one new point to make that I don't think I've seen yet.

For my kids being told to stand in one spot, is a bigger punishment than telling them to go sit on a bench or lean against a tree. When they can sit, they can sprawl out, they play with pretending to draw on the bench, under a tree they end up playing (picking at the bark, jumping to hit leaves, etc). Whereas if they have to stand in a boring spot with nothing around them, its more effective.

While I don't agree that this 10-minute standing punishment is "punishment by the elements", and I wouldn't have complained to the principal. But since you did, I would be ticked off that the principal said it was not acceptable and then it happened again.

 

[esk]

To the OP, DS is in 3rd grade and still getting in trouble for talking in class...socializing, saying the answers (which apparently he always knows) and chatting to his buddies when they are trying to study.

We've tried everything -- rewards, punishments, stickers, behavior charts at school, daily progress reports -- and he simply won't stop talking in class. DH and I both work, so we can't stand in his classroom and give him the evil eye to stop it.

So, this year, his teacher and I have decided that his desk is by itself, at the back of the class. the other kids are in desk clusters of 4 or 6. If he talks out of turn, she turns the desk to the wall...when he has a "good day" then she'll turn it to face front again. And so on.

Not a perfect solution, but this way, he doesn't bother the other kids 98% of the time. He is bored in class but without anyone to talk to, he tends to read or do the extra work we've asked he be given.

Of course, some days, he is impossible and will make his pencil a skateboard, or rocket ship, or be totally disruptive. Then he loses recess and it escalates from there. Sigh. But it is a measure to mitigate the talking and, 4 weeks into school, it seems to be working OK.

 

[princessmom29]

To the OP, DS is in 3rd grade and still getting in trouble for talking in class...socializing, saying the answers (which apparently he always knows) and chatting to his buddies when they are trying to study.

We've tried everything -- rewards, punishments, stickers, behavior charts at school, daily progress reports -- and he simply won't stop talking in class. DH and I both work, so we can't stand in his classroom and give him the evil eye to stop it.

So, this year, his teacher and I have decided that his desk is by itself, at the back of the class. the other kids are in desk clusters of 4 or 6. If he talks out of turn, she turns the desk to the wall...when he has a "good day" then she'll turn it to face front again. And so on.

Not a perfect solution, but this way, he doesn't bother the other kids 98% of the time. He is bored in class but without anyone to talk to, he tends to read or do the extra work we've asked he be given.

Of course, some days, he is impossible and will make his pencil a skateboard, or rocket ship, or be totally disruptive. Then he loses recess and it escalates from there. Sigh. But it is a measure to mitigate the talking and, 4 weeks into school, it seems to be working OK.

Please don't get mad, but i have to ask. Have you had him tested for special (gifted) services? I say this b/c you are describing me in 3rd grade. I was soooo bored I had to find something to do, and was easily fustrated when told to pipe down and stop answering all the questions. Once I was being pulled out for PACE classes it really made a difference. I had something intelectually stimulating for me at least once a day and coped much better.

 

[Chelley00]

At our school there is no shade on the playground. I think standing on a crack in the sun has to be better than the kids running around and playing in the sun with no shade And 10 minutes is not really a long time to go without a drink. The kids at our school have to sit on a bench if they miss recess, in the sun.

 

[eduk8r26]

Is our school the only one with an outside drinking fountain? We have 4 on the playground in full view of teachers on duty. We don't have many trees, but have a low cement curb alongside one building. It is usually in the shade, so that's where I have kids sit in a timeout. If someone asks for a drink or the bathroom, I let them go because I can see them.

 

[dormouse72]

DD # 2 had this issue as well - long drinks of water, constantly sharpening pencils, etc. There was many a day that she missed recess having to stay inside to make up her work. She got to the point where she expected not to go to recess so it lost it's effectiveness. She just gave up on the idea of ever having it.

We had similar issues in 3rd grade as well but then we moved and in 4th grade she was in a school were she had a locker and moved between different classes. What a difference that made! She needed more movement to help her concentrate as well as a chance to socialize for a few minutes. Sitting still and being quiet for long strecthes just made her crazy. Now she's in middle school and doing great.

I'd have issues with my kid standing in the sun but no shade on the playground would bother me even if she was running around since she's very fair-skinned and burns easily. If your son is a social butterfly, maybe you can work with the teacher to have him channel these impulses positively - like running an errand to another office if he gets his work done or something else that lets him release some of that pent-up chatter without being penalized.

Good luck!

 

[Mom loves Disney]

At our school you don't stand in the sun, you walk laps in the sun. There is no shade at all and we are outside for 30 minutes. You will see the same children everyday walking so it must not bother them too bad.

 

[kevschickee]

I am sure the teacher didn't say now go in the sun and bake for 10 min. I think you were over the top with this.

 

[maxiesmom]

At our school there is no shade on the playground. I think standing on a crack in the sun has to be better than the kids running around and playing in the sun with no shade And 10 minutes is not really a long time to go without a drink. The kids at our school have to sit on a bench if they miss recess, in the sun.

Exactly. OP, I think your son has played you, and you did exactly what he wanted. You got the teacher in trouble for what is a very minor punishment. Now you have made a big hubub over this, and your child knows you will run interfearance for him every time he gets in trouble, instead of letting him be punished for his behavior. Not you best decision.

 

[leighe]

This kind of stuff is exactly why I don't know how much longer I'll be teaching...

 

[kevschickee]

Exactly. OP, I think your son has played you, and you did exactly what he wanted. You got the teacher in trouble for what is a very minor punishment. Now you have made a big hubub over this, and your child knows you will run interfearance for him every time he gets in trouble, instead of letting him be punished for his behavior. Not you best decision.

 

[FSUDisneyGirl]

10 minutes? He would have been out there anyway! And chances are, if he was playing a game with other kids, he would have been in the sun the whole time.

Speaking as a teacher...you don't make kids stand in the sun on purpose as punishment...not unless you want to lose your job. But you may make kids stand in the sun in order to supervise ALL students and make sure they are safe, or stand on the blacktop in a specific (in a spot that happens to be in the sun) so they are not goofing around playing with other kids.

I say drop it. Contact the teacher and give her another chance to contact you...if she does not contact you then, talk to the principal.

 

[mum4jenn]

If your child was not in trouble and he was having regular recess he would STILL be out in "the elements" and he would more than likely be running around all over getting more hot in "the elements". Classes at our school are allowed water once they come in from "the elements". Ten minutes standing in one place for not following the rules is not going to kill anyone. Football rules do not even apply here because the football players would be in their uniforms performing drills for longer times than 10 minutes.

Teach your child to follow the rules and stop being a helicopter parent. Your little snowflake needs to learn not to talk so much.

 

[dipin]

Recess is 15 minutes - it takes about 1 -2 minutes to walk out there. At most he played for 3 minutes..no he doesn't walk home nor does stand outside to wait for a bus. Genius, I wrote that I am dealing with it - not ignoring it. Obviously I am not making a big deal out of it - asking that he not stand in sun is reasonable with heat triggered asthma.

It is hot and humid air that triggers asthma, not the sun. So unless your kid always stay inside and this particular day they forced him out, he is playing you.

Standing quietly in the same spot is, if anything, much better and safer for those with heat triggered asthma than running around and playing in the same environment.

In fact, I don't know of a single heat related disorder where it is better to be active outside than to stand still. If your son really was feeling ill after standing in the sun for all of ten minutes, you should actually be glad that they made him stay within a determined area. Odds are, whatever made him ill would be much worse if he was running around in it.

 

[RMAMom]

This kind of stuff is exactly why I don't know how much longer I'll be teaching...

That's funny leighe, I was thinking that this kind of stuff is why I homeschool!

 

[ms.yt]

Exactly. OP, I think your son has played you, and you did exactly what he wanted. You got the teacher in trouble for what is a very minor punishment. Now you have made a big hubub over this, and your child knows you will run interfearance for him every time he gets in trouble, instead of letting him be punished for his behavior. Not you best decision.

ITA! I can't believe someone would make this big of a deal over 10 minutes. I'm glad this kid isn't in my district because by the time he gets to high school he will think he's untouchable by teachers for discipline purposes.