Orlando Paper: "Disney is Losing Market Share"

pheneix

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Walt Disney World is the undisputed king of Central Florida's travel destination empire, but the dukes and earls have been elbowing their way to larger fiefs.

Disney is still the brand that brings in families from around the world, but its share of theme-park attendance has declined to 68 percent in 2002 from 75 percent in 1998, according to a Sentinel analysis of attendance estimates by the trade publication Amusement Business.

Universal Orlando's share of Orlando-area theme park attendance has grown to 23 percent from 16 percent. And SeaWorld's has grown slightly, to 9 percent. But it isn't just parks that are diluting Disney's influence.

Over the past several years, Central Florida has gotten championship golf courses and upscale shopping malls, self-contained time-share resorts and luxury hotels -- businesses that depend on Disney for customers but also attract tourists on their own.

And that can only help Central Florida's No. 1 industry, said Bill Peeper, president of the Orlando/Orange County Convention & Visitors Bureau.

"The more offerings we have as a destination, the stronger we are as a destination," he said. "I don't think it's unhealthy at all."

Bill Warren, a Disney spokesman, points out that the Amusement Business figures used by the Sentinel to calculate market share are estimates. As in the past, Warren declined to provide gate numbers. But Disney hasn't previously objected to media use of the Amusement Business data.

"We fundamentally disagree with your premise that we have lost market share to any single competitor," Warren said. "What is more important to the future of our business is whether our product remains relevant to our guests, which we work hard to assure , and whether we are profitable for our shareholders."

But some former Disney executives say privately that while the Amusement Business numbers aren't exact, the declining market-share trend is portrayed accurately.

Outside experts agree.

"I have a sense that guests to Central Florida are now redefining their Florida vacations," said Tim O'Brien, senior editor of Amusement Business. "I think what we'll start seeing more and more is a cyclical fluctuation in attendance patterns. One year, guests will come and do only a Disney vacation, the next year they will come and do everything but Disney."

In the long run, that can only help the area, some say.

"What's happening is that Orlando is getting a whole new layer of infrastructure that will give people more alternatives and choices that a major destination needs to have," said Dennis Speigel, president of International Theme Park Services, a Cincinnati-based attraction consulting firm.

Mark Vitner, an economist at Wachovia Securities in Charlotte, said, "This is a form of diversification in the Orlando market and that's a good thing."

True, it isn't the traditional vertical economic variety yearned for by government leaders here in recent years. The area still isn't drawing droves of high-tech or manufacturing employers or corporate headquarters.

But the horizontal diversification across the tourism industry is bringing in amenities and activities new to this area, which will draw more visitors, experts say. For example, the soon-to-open Ritz-Carlton resort on John Young Parkway near International Drive will offer courses in falconry -- learning to train and hunt with birds of prey.

The Ritz, along with the J.W. Marriott, will open at Grande Lakes Orlando this summer.

Disney's declining influence is a natural progression in the growth of Orlando's tourism industry, said Abraham Pizam, dean of the University of Central Florida's Rosen School of Hospitality Management.

"It's a sign of a more mature market," he said. "You don't want to depend on one organization."

Universal's and SeaWorld's expansions give tourists more reasons to return to Orlando, and it makes Orlando a more competitive market, Pizam said.

"That keeps you on your toes," he said.

Universal, for example, has expanded in four years from a single attraction to a sprawling resort with two parks, three luxury hotels and an entertainment district with a 20-screen movie theater, nightclubs and an eatery operated by celebrity chef Emeril Lagasse.

"Thirty-five percent of our business in our three hotels are only doing Universal," said Michael Sansbury, regional vice president and managing director of Loews Hotels, which has opened three properties at Universal Orlando since 1999 and is considering a fourth.

SeaWorld, meanwhile, has broadened its appeal by adding animal encounters such as "Sharks Deep Dive" and by opening a second park, Discovery Cove, a high-end day resort where guests are allowed in the water with dolphins.

"We have something that is unique," said Jim Atchison, vice president for marketing at SeaWorld, which hopes to attract more visitors this summer with a waterfront shopping and dining complex.

"What we like to see is a variety of things to do in this market," he said. "It helps the destination."

Disney has added one theme park, Animal Kingdom, during this period and weighed into the cruise business with two huge ships sailing to the Caribbean out of Port Canaveral.

Yet even in the cruise business Disney faces increasing competition at its home port. In 1999, Disney's two ships represented 50 percent of those sailing from Canaveral as a home port. By 2002 however, the port boasted six Caribbean cruisers, reducing Disney to one-third of the fleet. By the end of 2003, another two non-Disney ships will call Canaveral home, cutting Disney's share to 25 percent.

Further diluting Disney's influence, some are skipping the attractions altogether, preferring to golf, visit Brevard County's beaches or shop at malls anchored by upscale department stores such as Bloomingdale's and Nordstrom, said Ed Kinney, senior director of brand public relations for Orlando-based Marriott Vacation Club International, with six-time share properties in Central Florida.

"Those are attractions by themselves," Kinney said. Those activities can draw people away from Disney's property and closer to Universal and SeaWorld.

Disney World is still popular with Marriott's time-share owners, said Kinney, but their interest is growing in Universal's parks as well as Busch Entertainment's SeaWorld and Discovery Cove.

"People are seeing much more additions at those two [Universal and SeaWorld] than they're seeing at Disney," Kinney said.

Disney hasn't opened a major new ride since 1999's debut of the Rock 'n Roller Coaster at MGM Studios and the only one scheduled for 2003 will be a space-flight simulator called Mission: Space at Epcot.

Universal this year is adding attractions based on the popular -- and hip -- Shrek and Jimmy Neutron, and insiders say an indoor roller coaster based on The Mummy will replace Kongfrontation at Universal Studios.

Another reason for attendance growth at Universal and SeaWorld is the generous discounts they're offering. For example, SeaWorld's "Fun Card," for the price of a one-day admission, is also a one-year pass for additional visits.

Disney historically has refused to offer deep discounts.

"During this recovery period Disney World has maintained its strong No. 1 market position without devaluing the brand to attract attendance through deep discounts and sacrificing future ticket sales," Disney spokesman Warren said.

But others point out that special deals are making non-Disney parks much more accessible to local residents, something Disney has tried less successfully to do with less generous offers. Annual passes without restrictions at Walt Disney World cost about $400, more than twice the rate at Universal and eight times the price at SeaWorld.

At the same time, the little guys are no longer willing to wait to follow Disney's lead with daily admission price hikes. For the past couple of years, SeaWorld has been first to raise prices, followed by Universal and then Disney.

Universal, meanwhile, likes to say it has a better grip on the lucrative pre-teen and teen market than does Disney.

"If you ask any child who's, say, at least 8 years old: 'Would you rather ride on Spider-Man or It's a Small World?,' it's no contest," said Gretchen Hofmann, Universal Orlando's senior vice president of marketing.

Universal officials are quick to acknowledge that Disney is still No. 1 in this market. "But Disney is no longer the catalyst of all growth for Orlando," Hoffman said. "And we are no longer at the mercy of Disney."

---------------------------------

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/business/tourism/orl-cfbcover20012003jan20.story
 
It's nice to see someone other than us die-hard-Disney-fans notice that Disney hasn't done anything significent to the parks for a while. Now, if we can just get someone high enough up in the power structure to realize that this is hurting business....


Sarangel
 
I agree. I wonder at what point attractions like Small World and Pirates need to be mothballed and replaced by something much more relevant to today's guest?

Why replace them? I didn't think they were out of room....

The scary part is, they'd mothball the attractions without replacements.
 

SURPRISE!

How much longer before Esiner realizes that the parks are the golden key to wealth and marketshare? BUT you also have to note that since 98, a more repuatable and talked about park, IoA, opened. Many folks have pilgramaged to IoA over Disney because of how Universal does stuff, for thrills. Before, you could get some thrills at Universal, but you had to mix in crappy attractions and god awful waits and downtime. Now IoA has that undercontroll and now people have 'seen the light'. Granted, Disney will reign supreme, because kids have less things prying for their attention (and money) than teens, and once the teens grow up, do you think they'll bring there kids to Universal? NOPE. Disney, just like how their parents brought them there.
 
"If you ask any child who's, say, at least 8 years old: 'Would you rather ride on Spider-Man or It's a Small World?,' it's no contest," said Gretchen Hofmann, Universal Orlando's senior vice president of marketing.
Spin, Spin, and even more Spin! What a ridiculous question that is. Yes, I know it's meant to illustrate the difference between the two parks, but why couldn't the question be: Would you rather ride Spider-Man or Tower of Terror? At least compare apples to apples.

Here's another good one:
Yet even in the cruise business Disney faces increasing competition at its home port. In 1999, Disney's two ships represented 50 percent of those sailing from Canaveral as a home port. By 2002 however, the port boasted six Caribbean cruisers, reducing Disney to one-third of the fleet. By the end of 2003, another two non-Disney ships will call Canaveral home, cutting Disney's share to 25 percent.
What ridiculous, uninformed, media SPIN! Again, not comparing apples to apples. Show me facts and figures that indicate the other 6 ships sailing out of Port Canaveral cut into DCL's bookings. A truer statement might be that Port Canaveral is taking away business from the Port of Miami. How ludicrous.

And yet another good one:
Further diluting Disney's influence, some are skipping the attractions altogether, preferring to golf, visit Brevard County's beaches or shop at malls anchored by upscale department stores such as Bloomingdale's and Nordstrom, said Ed Kinney, senior director of brand public relations for Orlando-based Marriott Vacation Club International, with six-time share properties in Central Florida.
Where are the facts and figures backing this up? Most people I know who want to escape for a shopping trip head out to either Chicago or NY, NOT, I repeat, NOT Orlando.

This article presents very little fact and just acts as a forum for the media to espouse ridiculous statements. A newspaper article: yes. Journalism: NO!

And yet again, the Sentinel earns its nickname, the Slantinel.
 
>>>because kids have less things prying for their attention (and money) than teens, and once the teens grow up, do you think they'll bring there kids to Universal? NOPE.<<<

Why yes, I think they will. I've seen the "thrills won't win" arguement thrown up for Disney's defense whenever someone brings up Six Flags, but Universal is a whole different ballgame. How many people grew up reading Dr. Seuss books as a child? Hell, how many of you learned how to read because you read Dr. Suess? How many MILLIONS screamed have "holy ****!" when that T-Rex sent sent a jeep carreening over a cliff in Jurassic Park? How about the thousands of people each day who drop their jaws when they see Poseidon's temple towering over the landscape in the Lost Continent? The reality is that millions of people do have very damn good experiences at Universal, and they are able to have them without "I remember when things used to be better" looming over their minds.

It is always to try and paint Disney as this "magical" place that will always exist and always be #1. Hell, a company stooge on an infamous website writes columns about it all the time. But the reality is that there are other companies out there- Universal, Busch Entertainment- that do just as good of a job of making "magical" (wait a minute, I forgot that "magic" was a trademark, never mind...) experiences as Disney does. Hell, lately they've done an even better job of it since Disney is running any soul with talent away from their company as hard and as fast as they can. That's probably why Universal and Busch have been able to maintain their attendance and grow even as Disney continues to lose attendance and market share.

It's not just thrills that have lead to Universal's newfound success in attracting people. If it were, then California Adventure and the "new" Epcot* would not be money losing failures.

* I should probably point out that while Epcot isn't losing money in the most literal sense of the word (it still turns an operating profit), Disney did pour millions upon millions into Epcot in the 90's only to have attendance fall off the face of the earth for the park. That alone is enough reason to classify the park as a failure, even though initially it was very successful for the company.
 
I wonder at what point attractions like Small World and Pirates need to be mothballed and replaced by something much more relevant to today's guest?

Well, there you go again...;)

I'm sure Disney likes the mothballing idea... Just look at 20,000 Leagues, CoP, and Timekeeper. Oh, and this year's addition, the Hunchback Show.

Its the replacement part they don't always seem to follow through on.

But of course, its easier to blame something somebody else built, like Small World, than it is to take responsibility for what you (Disney) have failed to do with other closed attractions.

One major attraction every four (or will it be five?) years isn't going to do it for a 4-park complex.

For the record, I don't mind replacing the classics if the aren't pulling their weight. Certainly I have no problem with updates with new technology and effects. But to blame Pirates and Small World, while other attractions sit boarded up, is simply ridiculous.
 
Im glad to see a article like this and i hope that disney does lose some of its attendance as they have taken their guests for granted and havent put in the time/effort/money into the parks like they should and have decided that more parks is better than having your existing parks complete. Maybe then disney will decide to give the parks their due and invet money into the parks rather than siphon it away to other divisions that are money losers!!
And i dont think attractions like Pirates/Small World are the problem at all!!! Its the attractions that are closed and nothing is put in their place and not ulitizing the park space that they have. Its that disney is unwilling to spend their own money to update the parks, they will only use corporate money as in TT and MS.They show no willingness to invest their own capital to spruce up the parks.
I think a reality is that while me may be disney nuts and will keep returning to the parks their is a good sized segment of the public that has done disney several times and wont feel the need to return until their is somethting new to entice them to return. I know myself i get asked by family members"Youre going to disney again??" So i think disney does need to update the parks as they are in competition with alot of other companies/destinations for the vacation dollar.
Ditto's Raidermatt/Phenix.
 
Anyone else heard the rumor that Eisner ws out touring the "World" today? I bet this make shim look differently at his "Kingdom".
 
Originally posted by pheneix
>>>because kids have less things prying for their attention (and money) than teens, and once the teens grow up, do you think they'll bring there kids to Universal? NOPE.<<<

Why yes, I think they will. I've seen the "thrills won't win" arguement thrown up for Disney's defense whenever someone brings up Six Flags, but Universal is a whole different ballgame. How many people grew up reading Dr. Seuss books as a child? Hell, how many of you learned how to read because you read Dr. Suess? How many MILLIONS screamed have "holy ****!" when that T-Rex sent sent a jeep carreening over a cliff in Jurassic Park? How about the thousands of people each day who drop their jaws when they see Poseidon's temple towering over the landscape in the Lost Continent? The reality is that millions of people do have very damn good experiences at Universal, and they are able to have them without "I remember when things used to be better" looming over their minds.

It is always to try and paint Disney as this "magical" place that will always exist and always be #1. Hell, a company stooge on an infamous website writes columns about it all the time. But the reality is that there are other companies out there- Universal, Busch Entertainment- that do just as good of a job of making "magical" (wait a minute, I forgot that "magic" was a trademark, never mind...) experiences as Disney does. Hell, lately they've done an even better job of it since Disney is running any soul with talent away from their company as hard and as fast as they can. That's probably why Universal and Busch have been able to maintain their attendance and grow even as Disney continues to lose attendance and market share.

It's not just thrills that have lead to Universal's newfound success in attracting people. If it were, then California Adventure and the "new" Epcot* would not be money losing failures.

* I should probably point out that while Epcot isn't losing money in the most literal sense of the word (it still turns an operating profit), Disney did pour millions upon millions into Epcot in the 90's only to have attendance fall off the face of the earth for the park. That alone is enough reason to classify the park as a failure, even though initially it was very successful for the company.

You took my whole post out of context Phenix. The idea is this. Disney will get the kiddie crowed not because that they have X amount of coasters or thrill rides over this and that park. It won't be because of a cruse line or a TV and Movie tie it. It'll be because a parent remembered that when she or he went to Disney they loved it when they were little and they want thier kids to go too. But the parents won't go to Universal till much latter not that Universal has this and that and Disney has this and that, but because they like Universal when they were TEENS.

All in all, it boils down to that people will go to both parks. People will ride the rides, drink the drinks, eat the food, and buy the souviners, but people will bring back their kids and then the kids will bring their kids back to Disney. Just like when a teen gets a car. Nobody challanges it, it just is a phase of growing up.

Granted, people will debate this and call me things, but I think the thing that'll keep Disney up through the idiots and loosers in management is the fact that a family tradition will continue on and on.
 
All this article is saying (aside from the bit about the cruise line...and I do have to agree that the statistics were improperly used there) is that more and more people will come to Orlando for a vacation rather than flying into Orlando to vacation at Disney. As long as a sufficient number of people keep coming back the 68% versus 75% is irrelevant.

Actually...it would be great if that market share dropped even further because then Disney would have to start seriously thinking about making sure people came back on site. I sincerely hope they DONT build a fifth gate. Put the elements of the "fifth gate" into the existing parks instead. Or double the size of MGM and build a parking garage to service it.
 
Granted, people will debate this and call me things, but I think the thing that'll keep Disney up through the idiots and loosers in management is the fact that a family tradition will continue on and on.
Well, I'm not going to call you anything, but I will debate your point...

Disney does not have a perpetual lock on family resort entertainment. If they fail to invest in their parks and infrastructure at a rate that keeps their guests happy, they will slowly lose their guests.

Even an optimist has to admit that there are indications this COULD already be happening.

That doesn't mean Disney needs to go build a hyper coaster, or a thrill park.

But they do need to keep their parks fresh and exciting, while continuing to offer the classic family entertainment they built their empire on.

They are falling short in this area. While the Wall Street types maybe impressed temporarily by a contraction in capital spending and reduced expenses, they will be quick to change their mind when they finally figure out long term revenue is being throttled by the over-emphasis on this policy.
 
Another reason for attendance growth at Universal and SeaWorld is the generous discounts they're offering. For example, SeaWorld's "Fun Card," for the price of a one-day admission, is also a one-year pass for additional visits.

Disney historically has refused to offer deep discounts.

"During this recovery period Disney World has maintained its strong No. 1 market position without devaluing the brand to attract attendance through deep discounts and sacrificing future ticket sales," Disney spokesman Warren said.
This is one of the main reason my family has passes to SeaWorld AND Universal/IOA. Full year passes to both combined cost less than a seasonal Disney pass and about half of what an unrestricted annual pass costs. And you know what....if anyones 'brand' has been devalued it's Disneys....not to mention future ticket sales.

We were actually considering buying Play-4-Days passes last time they offered them until we saw that Disney was actually STUPID enough to raise the price by $10 when every other park was offering attractive discounts.

I visit the parks many times during the year and it's rare that I don't spend a small fortune on snacks and drinks for the kids and at least one meal. Disney just doesn't get it...
 
Testtrack- I took my kids to both Universal and disney when infants and didnt wait till later and i think more and more people will do this, escpecially when kids of today are watching Nick and want to see their characters. And i know my son for one will take his future family to USF much more than disney and identifies much more with the movie related rides they have than alot of what wdw has to offer. I think the younger generations will not share their parents attitudes toward disney and givde them blind allegiance like alot of people here do.
And i agree with johare, Disney doesnt get it and hasnt for awhile and will suffer till eisner is gone and they go back to what made them great!!
 
At last count I think I had 68 channels on my basic cable subscription. Every few months they throw in another sport,music,religious,pbs,etc channel. Every time they do,someone watches them,but I don't think NBC feels threatened. The pie is only so big and it's being cut into smaller and smaller pieces. The big 3 auto manufactures have been losing share for years. For years Ford tried fighting that trend, tried buying the market back with discounts & inexpensive models. Couple yrs ago Ford decided market share really wasn't profitable, they could make more money selling one Navigator rather then 3 Escorts.

I would be concerned if Disney were losing people because of an inferior product,but so far I don't think that is the case,(although I'm sure I'm in the minority on this board). I have friends & relatives telling me about trips they are planning to WDW, not IOA,US or SW. That doesn't mean they won't try and visit these locations, but bottom line is Disney is the destination, not the others.
 
I would be concerned if Disney were losing people because of an inferior product,but so far I don't think that is the case,(although I'm sure I'm in the minority on this board).
Fair enough. Your points about more choices increasing the number of visitors to Orlando who do other things, and therefore decreasing Disney's market share, are well made.

However, Disney's attendance in 2002 was lower than the pre-AK days, when there were only three parks. What do you think the reason is for Disney's decline in overall attendance to the point that it is lower than the pre-AK days? This while Universal actually increased its overall total last year. Is it only due to the Halloween activities at Universal? Discounting?

Remember, inferior is a relative term. Disney's product does not have to become inferior to the competition in order for Disney to lose market share. If Disney's newer offerings are inferior to Disney's previous offerings, while others at least maintain the "quality" of their new offerings, Disney will lose customers.
 
...do you really believe that many guests visit WDW because of Small World?
No, but I do believe that rides like IASW, Peter Pan, Dumbo and Pirates are part and parcel to the whole. The sum is greater than the parts and I think if you start taking out the pieces in favor of the latest cartoon show the kids watch or, worse yet, nothing, it detracts from the whole of each park. Rides like IASW have stood the test of time and (my opinion here) have crossed the threshold into that which is timeless and classic. Any way, I think these rides still work, are relevent (in the context of the MK) and just require regular maintenance.
I agree mothballing an attraction without a replacement is very, very bad practice...but my biggest concern about WDW parks is that they keep around aging attractions, under the guise of nostalgia, in order to spare itself the expense of recreating that attraction.
I think recent history disproves this statement. The most nostalgic ride that Disney created now operates under a "seasonal" schedule and will most likely be canned (probably without a replacement) in the semi-near future. Guess the attraction yet? CoP. Most people (here and otherwise) would have you believe it was shut down as a cost savings measure. Look at other attractions that have gone the way of the do-do: 20kluts, skyway, the old tiki room, etc. I highly doubt that nostalgia is a measure by which attractions are judged. If an attraction works and is relevant (and doesn't cost too much) I think it stays around.
And, please understand, that I AM NOT advocating tearing these rides down or even replacing them...just making them a little more relevant to today's kids.

I'll admit, Universal seems to have recognized the importance of this. And I commend them for that.
Understood, but it's hard to really judge Universals record at tearing down vs. not tearing down nostalgic rides as they haven't been around for 31 years.
 
I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with your comment, but I wanted to comment on the two rides you mentioned- 20kluts and skyway. 20k was an expensive ride to maintain with a very low rider rate. I would love to see it returned and upgraded, but I can understand it's closure. As for skyway, from what I've been told, it was closed because people today are AS___LES. Idiots would throw,spill,spit,etc from the baskets.

One comment about rides like IASM, PotC and CoP : They might not be the greatest, but on hot day,after walking miles, it sure is relaxing just to plop your butt down in one of them boats or seats and enjoy an airconditioned ride.
 




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