Opinions Wanted re video recording

[Pea-n-Me]

We have two older Sony video cameras and both are dead. We also have a Canon S3 IS which we've finally figured out how to use pretty well - which took a while.

We would like to have something for video for our upcoming trip that my DH will primarily use (while I'm busy shooting with my S3). We haven't shot much video in the last few years primarily because our video camera's been broken.

We have been taking some small video clips with the S3 and are pleased with the quality - I'm aware it can only go about 1GB/8 minutes on the best setting. I think there are also a lot of pros to the S3 video like sound quality, ability to take stills while videoing and nice zoom, among other features.

DH enjoys taking pictures (not to the extent I do) and video (more than I do). DS9 also is enjoying photography more and more and has been learning to use my S3.

I've toyed with the idea of getting a DSLR but honestly I don't think I'd be into changing lenses and carrying a big bag around, etc. But I'm not completely sure because I've never done it. I am intrigued with the notion of it, and of course, inspired by all of you. I dread the thought of "starting over" but I also don't want to have regrets several months or a year from now. I'm hoping to take a photography class in the fall or winter as I'm enjoying it a lot - I always have but now I have more time in my life to really get into it.

If I do get a DSLR it would be a Canon Rebel XT or XTi because I think it would help me on the learning curve since I just spent the last year learning/reviewing basic photography and the S3 and I've played with the XTi in the store and it feels good to me and similar to my S3. So if I go DSLR, it will be one of those two and my DH and DS would use the S3 for photos and video.

The other thing I'm considering is getting either another S2 or S3 (I can't justify buying the S5 when there's not much about it that's different from the S2/S3 and the cost would be up around that which I could get a DSLR for) which seems to make a lot of sense since we already have most of the equipment and we're finally past the learning curve and pretty pleased with it's capabilities. We're leaning toward the S2 because (I know this sounds silly) a) it's silver and that would make it easier to distinguish whose is whose and b) it's cheaper (I love a bargain).

Currently Amazon has the S3 for under $300. I'm having trouble finding a new S2 for less than the cost of the S3 (Amazon lists it for $222 but it's used). I'm not opposed to getting a used S2 if it's in good condition, but I'd probably prefer new. Does anyone know of any sites to get a new S2 at a cost lower than that of the S3?

I don't think we're going to go the camcorder route so it would be one of the two choices above.

Thanks if you've read this far. Any opinions would be appreciated.

Would also like to know what you all use for video?

Linda

 

[webshark3]

If you want the bargin route for video, pick up a cheap DV camcorder (around $200). You get far superior video to the S2 or S3, plus save a whole lot of money (DV tapes are cheap compared to flash memory).

I couldn't bare a Disney vacation without both stills and video, but I DO NOT want them in the same device.

A DSLR doesn't have to be bulky. You can do very well at Disney and never remove the kit lens. Get a good neck strap, and it can be always on and at the ready. Something the P&S cameras seldomly are.

 

[jann1033]

if you've been using the creative side of the dial, i'd get the dlsr. if you are taking a photo class this fall you will learn all the ins and out for sure. i never take video so have no opinion on that.
i used 2 lenses with my film slr for yrs...it's only since i have come on here i have become obsessed get a nice walk around lens and that might be all you feel the need for.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

pick up a cheap DV camcorder (around $200). You get far superior video to the S2 or S3

Is the video on a camcorder really far superior to that from an S2/3? I'm thinking it's a very good quality video, plus you get a lot of other features for a little more than the cost of a camcorder, whose prices and quality seem to vary greatly.

From Steve's Digicams:

The S3 has a very high quality movie mode with sound, capturing your choice of 30 or 15 frames per second at resolutions of 640x480 or 320x240, and a high frame rate of 60fps at 320x240. The 30fps 640x480 Fine movies consume about 2-megabytes per second of recording but they look like they were shot with a camcorder, very smooth with no compression artifacts. While many digicams prevent zooming during movie recording, the S3 IS allows it because the ultra-quiet USM motor does not interfere with the audio. Speaking of audio, the S3's performance is exceptional. Both the microphone level and audio sampling rate can be set from within the S3's menu system. The S3 also has a wind filter that can be enabled, reducing the amount of wind noise present in the audio track. In-camera editing of movies is provided in playback mode, allowing you to cut from the beginning and/or the end, and saving the edited clip as a new file or overwriting the original. The maximum length of capture in any quality setting is limited to 1GB or 60 minutes, whichever comes first. If you plan to exploit the S3's movie mode, make sure to get a large and fast SD memory card.

Canon has integrated the S3's still and moving image capabilities well. Unlike other digicams, the S3 has separate shutter buttons for stills and movies; movies can be taken in any of the S3's still picture modes, and stills can be captured while the camera's mode dial is in the movie mode. Not only that, but stills can be captured during movie recording; the movie will be flawed with a brief series of black frames and the audio will contain the shutter release sound, but Canon has redefined the term "shooting priority" with this feature.

And from dpreview: http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canons3is/page7.asp

 

[Pea-n-Me]

i used 2 lenses with my film slr for yrs

That's good to hear. I know zilch about lenses.

 

[webshark3]

Don't look at just resolution, or what's considered good for a still camera (dpreview). A DV camcorder (since it's uncompressed video, using a sensor and lense for video) still outperforms DVD camcorders, hard-disk camcorders, etc. Put your S3 video files on a tv, and compare against someones DV camera hooked up to the same tv. We're talking night and day difference. And that's with a CHEAP DV camcorder. Imagine if you invest in a good one.

Same is true when trying to use a camcroder for stills. Even newer 4-6mp stills in camcorders can't come close to comparing to the S2 or S3.

Samsung tried to work around this with a few models that used 2 differnent lenses and two differnt sensors in the same body for stills and videos. While interesting, they just proved that they were (below) average at both...

 

[webshark3]

Ah yes, one more thing:

Those price Disney memories? Where and how do you store them?

Many people don't realize that tape is proven as an archival solution. Stored properly, you can archive your cheap DV tapes. You won't need to worry about DVD lifespans, hard drive failures, accidental deletes.....

 

[Master Mason]

I would ask how much did you use your old video cameras before they broke. I bought a video camera about 5 years ago now, I have used it maybe 6 times since. And not once have I looked at what I filmed when I did use it.... It sounded like a really good idea when I got it, but video just isn't my thing.

 

[AndrewWG]

I have never owned a video camera. I have been not only pleased but incredibly pleased with the video quality and sound from the S2 IS. I have burned them to DVD and watched them on the TV without any problems. I, of ourse, have nothing to compare them to though. On the TV, the quality is diminished a bit, but still very acceptable in my book.

That being said, if your DH likes to take video alot, it would be my suggestion that either you should buy a video camera or have a TON of SD cards ready for him to use in the new S2 or S3.

Also, I haven't seen new S2 IS's for sale in about a year. I might not want a used version as I have heard that funky errors can happen with the lens mechanism, etc. I haven't experienced any of this, but recently when I turned mine on, I found that it had gone back to the factory settings for some reason. That was strange. I'd buy an S3 in a heartbeat (and many of the $20 Ultra II SD cards ar Radio Shack) if I wasn't going to go the DSLR route REAL REAL soon.

Andy

 

[Pea-n-Me]

I would ask how much did you use your old video cameras before they broke.

Good question. Not a whole lot, really.

When our twins were born and when they were little we did a lot more. Now, it's just special events like sports and trips. I feel kind of badly we have tons of video from when they were little but not much in the past few years other than what we've shot with the cameras. I suppose that's the case for many families. I would like to be able to do a little more. However, realistically, it won't be a lot overall.

Your question was helpful - thanks.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

Thanks, Andrew. I'm glad to hear that the video from your S2 looked good on your TV - I've only watched ours on the computer screen. As we've discussed on the S3 thread, the video quality really is good on these cameras.

Good suggestion on having a ton of cards. I bought two high speed 2GB cards last night @ RS and will go back for at least two more today. (We bring a laptop on trips and download/burn nightly.) My dog chewed three of my other cards but I still have a bunch of others as well.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

So...

We went out last night shopping around a bit.

I like the Rebel but my gut sense is that I'm not quite ready to take on the learning challenge of a DSLR right now. I'm in a good place (finally) with my S3 and I'd like to enjoy that feeling for a while. Plus, our trip is coming up soon and I'd rather go not feeling stressed about my camera. I see one in my future for sure, but probably not right now.

DH and I spent some time looking at camcorders and reading reviews about them as well. The inexpensive ones have a lot of "issues" from reviewers including poor battery life (which is why I could no longer stand my last camera and something I refuse to live with now), shoddy construction, blurry video in low light, poor sound quality, no optical zoom, etc. When you get up in the $200-300 range, they get a little better.

But for that price, I can get another S3 which would be so much more versatile and suitable for our family's needs. So that's what we're leaning towards. I still would like to find an S2 which is in the low $200 range.

Thanks for helping me think this through.

 

[PoohJen]

Ah yes, one more thing:

Those price Disney memories? Where and how do you store them?

Many people don't realize that tape is proven as an archival solution. Stored properly, you can archive your cheap DV tapes. You won't need to worry about DVD lifespans, hard drive failures, accidental deletes.....

Not knowing anything about DV tape, I guess I would've been inclined to transfer the taped material to DVD. Are you saying to just buy new tapes when the others get full, and store the footage on the tape? Do you then just play it back by hooking up your camcorder to the tv (i suppose, via a dvd or vhs player..?)?

of course, I assume if you want to edit footage, then you would transfer to another medium?

Sorry if these questions sound so elementary, I haven't done any research into this yet. I "think" I "need" a new camcorder (I think I am using a sony Hi-8), and want to get something that will last a while (i.e., won't be replaced in 2 years with new technology) and that has good quality. Oy, it's all so confusing!

 

[Pea-n-Me]

Ah yes, one more thing:

Those price Disney memories? Where and how do you store them?

Many people don't realize that tape is proven as an archival solution. Stored properly, you can archive your cheap DV tapes. You won't need to worry about DVD lifespans, hard drive failures, accidental deletes.....

Sorry, missed this.

All of our video shot with the Sonys is still on tape in a fireproof safe. We've been meaning to get it onto DVD and even bought the recorder to do it, just haven't gotten around to it yet. Our thinking is that DVD would be easier to watch/fast forward, etc and also last - if not forever - longer than tape.

Are you saying that tape storage is preferable to DVD?

 

[Groucho]

Tape is probably the most stable way to store anything, more so than DVD. The downsides are obvious - it's a pain! Rewind, FF, etc... bleah! Still, it has solid advantages.

Most current digital cameras have basically the same video recording modes (60fps 640x480) and will produce fairly similar quality. The big difference is usually whether or not they do optical zoom, which most long-zoom cameras do and most short-zoom ones don't. But a miniDV camera should have a clearer, more stable photo, little to no digital artifacting, much better zoom, and much better low-light performance. Also a bigger and better viewfinder. (Our old Sony Hi8 camcorder's digital viewfinder is nice and big and bright, and I don't mind that it's black & white.) You also aren't chewing up memory card space that you may want to use for regular photographs!

We don't do much videotaping, though, so ours is just a hand-me-down from my parents and buying a newer miniDV isn't really high on our list. The movie quality out of a digital camera is acceptable for short clips, which is usually as much as we do.

PoohJen, this is a bad time to buy a camcorder than won't be "old" in a couple years... standard-def is probably going to start going the way of the dodo (though very slowly), and today's high-def camcorders are expensive and are still new enough I think there's still a few issues that'll clear up over time... I suspect that 2 years from now, you'll be able to get an HD camcorder for relatively cheap that's as good or better than any but the very high-end HD camcorders of today.

Pea-n-me, if you're not ready for a DSLR, I wouldn't buy another of the same camera but one with another strength. Ie, you have an S3, maybe you'd like a smaller camera that could fit into a pocket more easily? Or a Fuji for superior low-light ability? That way, if you're only going to use one some days, you could pick the one that's the best tool for the job, rather than have two identical cameras when most of the time, only one will be used.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

Appreciate your thoughts, Groucho. We'll both be carrying the cameras most of the time. Nothing worse than having that great photo/video op and no camera! Last year DD9 was picked out of the crowd at Epcot to assist in a show. I was able to get some stills and a bit of video on my pns before it sucked the life out of the last battery I had. DH had no camera at all. I so wish we could have gotten the whole thing on video as there were some really funny moments. (I realized at that point I had to get a new camera.)

DH originally was thinking along the lines of a small, cheap video recorder that fits in your pocket (but also likes the idea of another S2/3 and has even said why don't you just go for the DSLR - he's easy ). But in researching these cheap recorders, they seem pretty lacking in what you get for your money and the cost ends up being around $200+ for a decent one anyway (when we can get a new S3 for $285). I just hate to throw $200 away (not to mention becoming frustrated) when for a little more, we could get what we know is a much better camera which DS could keep for himself when I move up to a DSLR.

Neither of us wants a miniDV or DVD recorder. We'd rather work with the equipment we already have like batteries, chargers, cards, etc. We're already overwhelmed with the amount of "stuff" we have to take anywhere we go. All we'd need for another S2/3 is more batteries and memory cards, and a fanny pack style carrying case for DH.



I wish I could find a new S2 somewhere that doesn't cost more than a new S3. I've searched and searched and haven't been able to find one yet.

 

[webshark3]

Sorry, been on a plane all day. For those who had questions for me, refer to Groucho's post. He covered it.

DV tape for storage, but I do edit down to DVD for convience. But I cringe as the DVD (MPEG2 compression) destroys my beatiful DV footage. I can't wait for inexpesive HD editing and burning, and I'll get a the Canon HDV to match...

 

[Pea-n-Me]

So - guess what I found the other night for $200?

An S2! Used, but in great condition.

We tried out our "dual" cameras last night at a fair for both photo and video.

For us, I think it was the right choice.

I'll update after our WDW/DCL trip for others who may be considering this type of purchase for video.

 

[webshark3]

nice, glad you have a solution you like.

Back in 2000, I bought a JVC camcorder that ha a progressive video mode. The advantage was that you could snap full frame stills (under 1 mp), and never stop recording video. At the time, it was a good concept. Decent stills, but as digital defined itself in two directions (video and still), I split too...