Opinions on the "El Rio Del Tiempo" theme.

[DisneyGirl4188]

The movie was, of course, Titanic – a movie that made a billion dollars from teenagers who refuse to be educated at the movies. “Education” is all how you present things.

The one with Leonardo DiCaprio?

If that's the case, they didn't just give a bland explanation of what happened. The created a story and used some pretty big stars to do so.

Do we know that Disney completely took away the education aspect of this ride? If not, then they updated the ride and added their own "big star".

There is no reason education and entertainment can’t be one in the same thing. That’s the entire point for Epcot.

I agree.

People demanding the duck are letting Disney off the cheap and easy way. People who can’t take a bit of learning in their vacation are taking the cheap and easy way in their lives. Disney used to stand for more, they used to try for more. I don’t intended to give them a pass because they can’t be bothered, and I’m certainly not going to listen to people who struggling to hold onto their ignorance.

You don't mean to come off as condescending, do you?

I never said people shouldn't learn on vacation (however, what's it to you if they don't want to?) I simply said that some people may be more drawn to riding this now that Donald is there (I for one am drawn to it, not for the duck, but because I want to see the update).

Again, no one has seen the ride yet. How do you know it's going to be bad?

 

[raidermatt]

This is a pretty lame ride that is not a draw. Are there two more bashed rides than this and maelstrom? Well besides stitch, the fact of the matter is that they need better draws in world showcase, if Donald is the hook that leads to this becoming a decent ride and pulling a few more visitors over to the mexico pavillion, then that is good for the entire park as a whole.

On Rio I can't really disagree about the popularity. But "fixing" the problem is a two-step process. One, get rid of the old ride, and two, put in something else. All things considered, I don't have a problem with the first step. Its the concept behind the second that is the problem.

Maybe it will be executed well, but regardless of how it turns out, they could have started with a stronger and more appropriate, concept.

Maelstrom is a different story. Its not an E-ticket of course, but it does frequently have lines, and is generally well-received.

The movie afterwards that 75% of the people skip is a different story.

 

[DancingBear]

You don't mean to come off as condescending, do you?

Well, I don't think A-V's staying up nights worrying about how others take his posts.

 

[Another Voice]

How do you know it's going to be bad?

No one is saying the ride is bad. We're saying that by putting Donald into the ride that it won't be as good as it should be given the reputation of Disney and the goals of Epcot. The ride might not be bad, but Disney is taking a quick and easy way out that will prevent the attraction from being great, unique and truely innovative.

You don't mean to come off as condescending, do you?

Only to people who tell me I can't go to WDW.

 

[raidermatt]

Again, no one has seen the ride yet. How do you know it's going to be bad?

I don't. We don't. There's concept and execution.

We're talking about the concept. It could, and should, be better.

Mabye they'll execute it well, and maybe they'll "Stitch" it. Nobody knows yet. Regardless of that though, it doesn't change the issues with the concept.

 

[DisneyGirl4188]

No one is saying the ride is bad. We're saying that by putting Donald into the ride that it won't be as good as it should be given the reputation of Disney and the goals of Epcot. The ride might not be bad, but Disney is taking a quick and easy way out that will prevent the attraction from being great, unique and truely innovative.

Forgive me, but I thought several people went on and on about how the ride is ruined.

Only to people who tell me I can't go to WDW.

 

[JimB.]

The movie afterwards that 75% of the people skip is a different story.

It's not the MOVIE silly, it's the SEATS!!! Those things are just plain (adjective, adjective, expletive, expletive) awful.!!


ANY dark, air conditioned space is a plus in my book!

 

[TheDogbots]

AV - do you have a source for the claim that more people go to the Smithsonian every year then WDW? Most articles and books on the subject of Disney Edutainment seem to claim the opposite.


And to another poster's claim that Epcot world showcase is not about characters, when was the last time you were there? Lets just look at a few countries: france... every day there is atleast four sets with one or multiple of the following characters Belle, Beast, Cinderella, Aristocats... Morocco hosts the cast of Aladin every day for about five hours or so, this is out front of the pavilion along the walkway unless it is too hot. Germany: Snow White and Dopey have scheduled sets everyday. China: Mulan and friends for most of the day. Canada: Brother Bear the only pavilions without characters that I know of is Italy and Japan.

 

[YoHo]

I would say there's a difference between meet n' greets and having them being a part of the attraction.

Having said that, Epcot was initially not supposed to have ANY Disney Characters.

I've got kinda mixed feelings about the whole thing. I like the Morocco setup where the characters are generally in back.

 

[dunnhorn]

Having said that, Epcot was initially not supposed to have ANY Disney Characters.

I think I read somewhere that EPCOT is 25 years old this year. I think 25 years ago it was a very cool idea to go around country to country in a "worlds fair" type of atmosphere. However today, that schtick holds less true, and up until recently EPCOT has been the forgotten park. (Gee, they are "forgetting" to celebrate the 25th anniversary!) Anyway, the river ride had turned into a dud - and lets face it, this and Listen to the Land are the ONLY rides (before Nemo) that are appropriate for preschoolers. The Mexico ride was a little spooky at the beginning too... it is what it is (a slow moving boat ride) so in order to be more effective in drawing in crowds it needs to really appeal to the target audience of the slow moving boat rides - either the very young or the old enough. Sad to say (IMHO) the ride in its former state didn't do that.

 

[angelmav]

I am still trying to figure out which boneheaded executive AV had lunch with that thought Titanic was going to sink Fox/Paramount and put him out of a job. Did Eisner ever work their?

 

[MrsJackSparrow]

the only pavilions without characters that I know of is Italy and Japan.

Actually, Italy sometimes features Pinocchio characters Gideon and Foulfellow and Gepetto.

And don't forget Princess Aurora in France.

Even the Outpost has had Jane from Tarzan.

United Kingdom features Alice, Mary Poppins, the Penguin, Bert, Pooh, Piglet, and Eeyore, albeit inside the toy store, but in their own designated meet and greet space.

 

[MrsJackSparrow]

But, keep in mind that Donald doesn't wear pants...

The cheesy bar scene may be somewhat MORE disturbing if Donald were to replace that studly guy!

 

[raidermatt]

I think 25 years ago it was a very cool idea to go around country to country in a "worlds fair" type of atmosphere. However today, that schtick holds less true, and up until recently EPCOT has been the forgotten park.

The reason they gave up on the world's fair concept has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not the schtick had grown old. In fact, when they gave up on it (not long after Eisner took over), the park's performance was fine.

The problem, as they saw it, was that they would have to update the pavilions every 10-20 years as technology moved forward. While the management team that built Epcot had planned to do that, the management team that took over not long after it opened had not intention of doing that.

So, yeah, when your world's fair atmosphere hardly changes year after year after year, the schtick will get old.

That doesn't mean the concept was flawed.

But that horse has left the barn as like I said, the company hasn't been using that concept for a long time.

WS is really a separate park, and was never intended to be a World's Fair type of place. Still, it also wasn't meant to be a static selection of the same countries and attractions year after year. It's been almost 20 years since a new country was added. The films some of the countries have are allowed to get WAY out of date before they are replaced. The last ride added was Maelstrom almost 19 years ago.

So, yeah, when you allow ANY park or area to stagnate like that, it's going to start getting old. But again, there's no evidence that there is anything at all wrong with concept.

 

[JimB.]

Maelstrom has been around 19 years??

Ick. I am now officially old.

As to the OP, I will withhold judgment until I see the ride. I liked the "old" one (very much in the "If You Had Wings" vein IMHO..... ), but change is not necessarily bad.

BTW - attendance at all of the Smithsonian venues combined was 17.5 million through the first 9 months of 2006. A 10% decrease...........

 

[TheDogbots]

BTW - attendance at all of the Smithsonian venues combined was 17.5 million through the first 9 months of 2006. A 10% decrease...........

Now whats 3/4 of annual attendance to WDW? lol

--- I don't think the world's fair idea is a bad one, but they did need to keep up with the update plan, they still have spaces for new pavilions, They should really look to put them in in the next five years, and then move to refurbishing other pavilions. update rides, add rides, new movies, etc... I wouldn't really want to see them change the architecture, but its not like they can really add more to each pavilion without getting rid of something... Actually Future World keeps up nicely with the WF tradition, though we lose "classics" we are given a new ride or attraction in each of the pavilions, it makes it new to alot of people, thus doing what they intended... bringing people back to the parks. The problem with WS is that each country actually doesn't have a "show area" where it can update its presentation on a regular basis... that would also require participation from the actual countries to keep new material coming in. by show area, a mean a small museum in the back or something... many countries have small exhibits in their pavilions, but they also never change... if there were an additional attraction area that was ever changing... then it would be a larger draw to the adult crowds perhaps... interestingly enough, they have a traveling exhibit from Cornell University in Innoventions right now... I don't see why they could not do this in WS also.

 

[YoHo]

The guesstimated annual attendence for Magic Kingdom at WDW, the worlds most visited themepark for 2005, the last year that guesses were made was 16.1 Million guests.


3/4 of that is 12.075 million. Nobody attempts to guess WDW's total attendence. Epcot was 9.1, MGM and AK were both in the mid 8 millions, but much of that is hopper passes. Those pesky multiday passes and hopping ability make it hard to guess.
It's probably safe to just use the MK number though. The number of people that went to WDW and didn't go to MK is probably minescule.

So, yes, the Smithsonian has higher attendance.

 

[raidermatt]

It's probably safe to put the annual Smithsonian attendance at minimum 20 million based on those first 9 months of '06. I'm assuming attendance is higher in the summer months. As YoHo noted, the last MK estimate was for '05 and was 16.1 million. Based on Disney's general statements about attendance changes, MK is still short of 20 million.

The statement was "more people go to the Smithsonian than to the Magic Kingdom."

It would appear there is no disputing that, is there?

Of course there are many factors that make direct comparisons difficult, but I think the point was that there is a pretty significant market out there that doesn't mind some education.

Throw Disney's full creative weight behind that idea, and that would seem to have the makings of a winner.

And whataya know... when Disney did that, Epcot was extremely successful without needing character based attractions.

 

[YoHo]

If somebody doesn't post an "Oh Snap" in the face of those numbers, I'll be highly disappointed.

 

[Euphscott]

Well then "Oh snap"