Opinions on the "El Rio Del Tiempo" theme.

[YoHo]

What makes you think El Rio Del Tiempo was poorly conceived to begin with?

 

[Mickmse2002]

What makes you think El Rio Del Tiempo was poorly conceived to begin with?

Good question. I always thought it had the feel of a cheap knock-off of It's A Small World and the aprt with the street vendor trying to hawk wares wasn't that great of an idea, I think it pandered to stereotypes. I rode the thing every time I go as it's a great sit-down, air-conditioned break from the heat.

 

[Another Voice]

A.
Any form of entertainment must be appealing on its surface to attract an audience. People make choices about how they will spend their time and money; people don’t randomly select a movie to see, they go see one they think (based on what they’ve seen and heard) is the one most interesting to them. It could be the story, it could an actor, it could be any number of reasons – but there is a “hook” there to draw in the audience.

B.
Disney has an attraction at Epcot that shows off the culture and history of Mexico. They have selected to use Donald Duck as the “hook” to make the show appealing to the audience.

C.
I believe this is a poor artistic choice that will weaken the show for several reasons:

- Donald Duck has nothing to do with Mexico, save for a single appearance in a WWII propaganda film that few have seen and was mainly about “South America” instead of Mexico anyway.

- I think there are more adults interested in the real Mexico than those wanting another brand experience with a cartoon character.

- Mexico as a subject is filled with truly amazing elements. Any of those would have made a more interesting and exciting attraction that anything one can do with a cartoon duck.

- Centering the show on an existing character is artistically cowardly. It would have been more challenging to present Mexico itself instead of using it merely as a backdrop.

- Disney has built its reputation on innovative and one-of-a-kind presentations. Lots of people have created travelogues of California, but only Disney could create an experience like ‘Soaring’. That attraction has proved immensely popular. Unique attractions are not only better shows, but they are a better business investment.


D.
I have no special love of ‘Rio’, but I expect Disney to at least try to improve an attraction rather than simply change it. That too has been a tradition at Disney. But in recent years we have seen an emphasis not on presenting better shows, but on shows that highlight Disney characters and merchandise. These shows have been of indifferent quality; that only leads me to suspect the real reason behind decisions being made.

E.
As a consumer of Disney products, I expect more from Disney than I do their competitors. I am willing to pay their premium if I my expectations are met.

F.
Instead, I am being told my expectations are not important. That I should accept what ever the company offers to me. Only after I have purchased the item or entertainment am I allowed to think about its appeal. The “try it, you might like it” rationale might work when you’re trying to get a eight year old to eat broccoli, but it doesn’t not work on Joe and Ethel Tourist trying to decided on their $1,600 “affordable” vacation.



For Disney to be successful, it must "wow" guests again. It's not a matter of the budget or the size of the ride - it's the talent, the imagine, the thought that goes into it. Inserting Donald into a ride doesn't take a lot of thought nor does it take a lot of effort. People can see that even on the surface.

Disney used to be able to do so much more. It would be nice to see them try agian, even on a small boat ride in World Showcase.

 

[Mickmse2002]

Any form of entertainment must be appealing on its surface to attract an audience. People make choices about how they will spend their time and money; people don’t randomly select a movie to see, they go see one they think (based on what they’ve seen and heard) is the one most interesting to them. It could be the story, it could an actor, it could be any number of reasons – but there is a “hook” there to draw in the audience.

ok, got that.

Disney has an attraction at Epcot that shows off the culture and history of Mexico. They have selected to use Donald Duck as the “hook” to make the show appealing to the audience..

Which attraction is that?

I believe this is a poor artistic choice that will weaken the show for several reasons:

- Donald Duck has nothing to do with Mexico, save for a single appearance in a WWII propaganda film that few have seen and was mainly about “South America” instead of Mexico anyway.

- I think there are more adults interested in the real Mexico than those wanting another brand experience with a cartoon character.

- Mexico as a subject is filled with truly amazing elements. Any of those would have made a more interesting and exciting attraction that anything one can do with a cartoon duck.

- Centering the show on an existing character is artistically cowardly. It would have been more challenging to present Mexico itself instead of using it merely as a backdrop.

- Disney has built its reputation on innovative and one-of-a-kind presentations. Lots of people have created travelogues of California, but only Disney could create an experience like ‘Soaring’. That attraction has proved immensely popular. Unique attractions are not only better shows, but they are a better business investment..

I wonder how many people at an amusement are really interested in the "true" Mexico? I bet not many.

I have no special love of ‘Rio’, but I expect Disney to at least try to improve an attraction rather than simply change it. That too has been a tradition at Disney. But in recent years we have seen an emphasis not on presenting better shows, but on shows that highlight Disney characters and merchandise. These shows have been of indifferent quality; that only leads me to suspect the real reason behind decisions being made..

I don't think they are sitting around looking to change attractions without giving thought to "improvement".

As a consumer of Disney products, I expect more from Disney than I do their competitors. I am willing to pay their premium if I my expectations are met..

I am too, but many are not. Look on these boards at all the posts that exist to beat Disney on prices. Many, many consumers want a bargain and are not willing to pay for quality.

Instead, I am being told my expectations are not important. That I should accept what ever the company offers to me. Only after I have purchased the item or entertainment am I allowed to think about its appeal. The “try it, you might like it” rationale might work when you’re trying to get a eight year old to eat broccoli, but it doesn’t not work on Joe and Ethel Tourist trying to decided on their $1,600 “affordable” vacation..

But you have to agree that Disney excels at marketing and us diehards may not respond to the current promotion but in todays Walmart world I bet it works.

For Disney to be successful, it must "wow" guests again. It's not a matter of the budget or the size of the ride - it's the talent, the imagine, the thought that goes into it. Inserting Donald into a ride doesn't take a lot of thought nor does it take a lot of effort. People can see that even on the surface.

Disney used to be able to do so much more. It would be nice to see them try agian, even on a small boat ride in World Showcase.

 

[EUROPACL]

And of course everyone can prejudge things, we call that human nature. But you also have to be smart enough to consider the source of either criticism or glowing endorsements and make decisions based on fact.


Treating opinion as fact makes zero sense.

Is adding Donald Duck to a poorly conceived, tired attraction a bad business or creative decision? I don't know.

Thats the whole point some of us already know and we don't need to taste the poop sandwich.

 

[Mickmse2002]

And of course everyone can prejudge things, we call that human nature. But you also have to be smart enough to consider the source of either criticism or glowing endorsements and make decisions based on fact.


Treating opinion as fact makes zero sense.



Thats the whole point some of us already know and we don't need to taste the poop sandwich.

Well maybe some day, if we're lucky, we can achieve the same level of all-knowing consciousness that you have. You have a terrible burden in life to bear, knowing how to run the Disney company better then anyone else. You get my vote to replace Iger.

 

[EUROPACL]

Well maybe some day, if we're lucky, we can achieve the same level of all-knowing consciousness that you have. You have a terrible burden in life to bear, knowing how to run the Disney company better then anyone else. You get my vote to replace Iger.

I douobt you will... anyone that seems to think that Disney stamp stands for quality or at least is paid to say so will never reach that level. I can tell you for sure that if I were running the company it would not be pushing , direct to video crap, bad movies, cheap attractions to keep the season ticket holders out of Guest services, plush dolls and cheap marketing of something that Disney use to do as a regular part of the day.

 

[raidermatt]

I don't disagree with what AV is saying, but for me, it comes down to an even simpler reason. Here are my non-cogent comments from the last Rio thread where this was discussed:

I'm saying that there are other reasons to try to create attractions that do not rely on character tie-ins, and those reasons should outweigh the plusses of using characters in every section of every park, as is quickly becoming the case.

Looking at it another way, its not about whether Nemo's Living Seas is "good", for example. Its about whether character tie-ins make sense given a park's or land's "charter", and given the need for variety across the resort.

Since then, I realized there's another irony to this. On the one hand Disney is still trying to capture those family members who think Disney is kids stuff (pre-teens, teens, young adults, macho dads), and on the other they are sending armies of the very source of that kid's stuff, characters, out into attractions in every land of every park.

I wonder how many people at an amusement are really interested in the "true" Mexico? I bet not many.

Depends on how its presented. Disney always knew that entertainment came first, education second. But that didn't mean it was wise to skip the education (perhaps discovery is a better word).

Remember, despite long periods of little to no investment, Epcot remained WDW's 2nd most popular park, even as the supposedly smarter Disney built two more parks. Despite stagnant attractions and pavilions, people STILL chose to go there over MGM's thrills and ABC synergy, and AK's supposedly better approach to education/entertainment.


Note that all of this has absolutely nothing to do with how they execute a particular ride, which is why its we can legitimately discuss Rio/Gran without worrying about whether anybody has actually been on it.

Sure, if they do it well, poeple will like it. If they do a poor job, it'll be a complete waste of money. But the issues being discussed are bigger than that. A well-executed attraction that keeps with WS's vision is better for the park and resort overall than a well-excuted character driven attraction in WS.

Of course, it's also harder to do...

 

[MrsJackSparrow]

I really hope they retain three elements of the original attraction:

1. The opening phrase "Ahhh, Mexico"

2. The cheesy swim-up bar scene where it looks like the guy is naked

and

3. That fabulous song in the ending scene.

 

[raidermatt]

2. The cheesy swim-up bar scene where it looks like the guy is naked

For some reason, I just don't think nature boy is gonna make the cut.

 

[raidermatt]

But, keep in mind that Donald doesn't wear pants...

 

[Another Voice]

I wonder how many people at an amusement are really interested in the "true" Mexico? I bet not many.

Yes, all those mega cruise ships lined up in Cancun are there for the great south-of-the-boarder deals you can get on Donald Duck plush.

I don't think they are sitting around looking to change attractions without giving thought to "improvement".

Go watch ‘Stitch Encounter’ and get back to us, okay?

But you have to agree that Disney excels at marketing

Yes – ever since they opened Disney’s California Adventure the freeways around here are packed. I mean, it’s damn hard to get through the traffic that’s headed to the park. But look who I’m talking to – the mobs that storm Epcot’s gate every morning to get to ‘Mission: Space’ – it’s like those crazy times back when Chicken Little caused all those riots in the theaters. Seriously, if Disney had only called everyone on their ESPN Mobile cell phone, the crowds would have been as well behaved as the guests at the Disney Institute. Or if they had just put a banner on the GO.com homepage – I mean everyone visits there first time in the morning. How else are we going find when the next epidsode of The Jason Alexander Show is going to be on mega-rated ABC Family?

You’re so correct – marketing is much more important than quality anytime.

You have a terrible burden in life to bear, knowing how to run the Disney company better then anyone else.

The quality of my life makes up for the pain, thank you. Unlike Disney executives, I don’t have to sit in a theater at the premiere of The Santa Claus 3 with the knowledge I have helped bring that into the world.

Nor do I have to waste moments of my life watching film loops of a cartoon duck run from screen to screen chasing after a run away burro.

 

[mrsR123]

for the diet pepsi all over my keyboard!


"Yes – ever since they opened Disney’s California Adventure the freeways around here are packed. I mean, it’s damn hard to get through the traffic that’s headed to the park. But look who I’m talking to – the mobs that storm Epcot’s gate every morning to get to ‘Mission: Space’ – it’s like those crazy times back when Chicken Little caused all those riots in the theaters. Seriously, if Disney had only called everyone on their ESPN Mobile cell phone, the crowds would have been as well behaved as the guests at the Disney Institute. Or if they had just put a banner on the GO.com homepage – I mean everyone visits there first time in the morning. How else are we going find when the next epidsode of The Jason Alexander Show is going to be on mega-rated ABC Family?

You’re so correct – marketing is much more important than quality anytime."

You've nailed it again. (But what about that Character Caravan hotel lobby experience I asked for?)

 

[tjlovespooh]

I'm not going to debate anything here, I probably won't even check this thread out again, but I just wanted to give my OPINION about "El Rio Del Tiempo".
IMHO DW is an amusement park, a place to go for fun, many of us bringing children. That being said, although EPCOT is supposed to encompass a more "educational" perspective one must remember that this ride is just that - a ride! I mean it's disney, should you expect to go and recieve a history lesson, or do you expect to see your 5yo laughing at donald duck? If you seek the former then perhaps you should research where to find a good museum and if you're in search of the latter then GO TO DISNEY WORLD

 

[EUROPACL]

for the diet pepsi all over my keyboard!


"Yes – ever since they opened Disney’s California Adventure the freeways around here are packed. I mean, it’s damn hard to get through the traffic that’s headed to the park. But look who I’m talking to – the mobs that storm Epcot’s gate every morning to get to ‘Mission: Space’ – it’s like those crazy times back when Chicken Little caused all those riots in the theaters. Seriously, if Disney had only called everyone on their ESPN Mobile cell phone, the crowds would have been as well behaved as the guests at the Disney Institute. Or if they had just put a banner on the GO.com homepage – I mean everyone visits there first time in the morning. How else are we going find when the next epidsode of The Jason Alexander Show is going to be on mega-rated ABC Family?

You’re so correct – marketing is much more important than quality anytime."

You've nailed it again. (But what about that Character Caravan hotel lobby experience I asked for?)

The best one yet is that ad they've been running for Year of a Million fastpasses and Mouse Ears marketing thing they've got now...

"$1,600 is that for all 4 of us" ....."gosh no honey.... one of the kids is going to have to stay in a foster home while the other gets to go with us after all we need at least one kid for Child Swap".

 

[raidermatt]

I mean it's disney, should you expect to go and recieve a history lesson, or do you expect to see your 5yo laughing at donald duck? If you seek the former then perhaps you should research where to find a good museum and if you're in search of the latter then GO TO DISNEY WORLD

My kids laugh on the playground at the local park.

Guess Disney should have put that in the Mexico pavilion.

Heck, they laugh at me when I wear a Donald Duck shirt.

Guess Disney should put ME in the pavilion.

 

[angelmav]

I am a little shocked by some of the vitriol being expressed here. This is a pretty lame ride that is not a draw. Are there two more bashed rides than this and maelstrom? Well besides stitch, the fact of the matter is that they need better draws in world showcase, if Donald is the hook that leads to this becoming a decent ride and pulling a few more visitors over to the mexico pavillion, then that is good for the entire park as a whole.

 

[cristen]

I mean it's disney, should you expect to go and recieve a history lesson, or do you expect to see your 5yo laughing at donald duck? If you seek the former then perhaps you should research where to find a good museum and if you're in search of the latter then GO TO DISNEY WORLD

You're right. Walt was an idiot for putting in Great Moments with Mr. Lincoln.

I was just reading this today, maybe you should too. I really don't know why you can't have both.

http://www.matterhorn1959.com/blog1/lincoln17.jpg

 

[NeverEnufWDW]

Here's a simple solution for the OP. Don't do the new ride. Don't even go to the Mexico pavilion. Hell, don't even go to Epcot. You'd be one less person taking the enjoyment out of my vacation.

 

[TheDogbots]

i got tired of skimming through the "You suck" posts... some good points in there... but we don't really need to be lashing out at other posters to get our points through... anyway... sorry if i repeat something on page 4 , which is where i stopped reading and just posted.


I agree with AV... Why not do something more artistically challenging than showing Donald with Mexican backdrops? The amount of different cultures Mexico has could make a ride as long as IASW... There is no need for a "Mickey Mouse" version of Mexico. We don't need to dumb down a country... And whoever said that most guests don't want to see the "True" Mexico anyway... what the heck are they in World Showcase for?

Although, I do see why Disney may have added Donald... it gets away from the initial idea to make a more adult park, but it gives reasons for smaller children to want to go to world showcase... a horrible reason, but i think that it could have had something to do with the change. oh yeah... not to mention the darn donald plushes that will sell like hotcakes...

Boycotting rides will not work, enough people will ride it that it won't matter. Look at the lines for Stich on normal days. Despite what the majority of Disboard people say about the ride.... enough people do go on it to make it a good way to capture crowds, and to draw people to the park.