OKW....very disapointed

[Sammie]

Please contact Member Satisfaction. Sense every decision that DVC seems to make is made based on member feedback, Jim Lewis's words, we have to let them know that letting the existing resorts fall down around our heads while DVC continues to build new resorts is not acceptable.

The maintenance issues really concern me, what the heck are they spending our dues on. If some members are truly doing so much damage that DVC and our dues can not keep the property up to the standard it had when built, we need to start assessing fines to those doing the damage.

I really hope maintenance concerns will be addressed at the next Association meeting in Dec.

 

[disnefile]

At our boardwalk stay we had a white chair that was metal and a plactic geen chair. I forgot to mention the door to the balcony did not lock. It was only a one night stay and we got there late so no use in complaining about the lock until we checked out. Don't they do a quality control check periodically? But the dirtiy and damaged rung was the worst. If I were paying the going rate for the room, I would have not accepted it.

Pete

 

[movie77]

As I said, I've asked that question of several different upper level management type people who acted like it was asked in a foreign language, maybe they didn't understand southern. My impression on all occasions was there was no formal master plan, that it would be handled as things came up. If you get anything else, let us know.

Can't say that I'm super suprised. We're new DVC members, but my initial impressions are that things are great a first glance, but not a lot of long term thought or care about what members think. This is a great example. As the operator of one of the largerst timeshares in the world you would think DVC would be up on industry standards and have an answer at the ready when asked about the soft/hard refurb plans.

 

[movie77]

I found this whole thread pretty interesting as it relates to what to expect in the future. I understand the idea that housekeeping can be "hit or miss" but at the DVC prices I would hope for about a 95% hit ratio and not sure if that is happening from the comments here. If tiles are broken, carpet worn out etc. I'm not even sure why we should have to complain about that. Unless the DVC management really doesn't want to keep up a high standard for their facilities. How hard is it too walk around and look and have housekeeping report back on worn items if it is a priority. My hunch is its not a priority otherwise it would already be fixed and this thread wouldn't exist.

 

[Dean]

Can't say that I'm super suprised. We're new DVC members, but my initial impressions are that things are great a first glance, but not a lot of long term thought or care about what members think. This is a great example. As the operator of one of the largerst timeshares in the world you would think DVC would be up on industry standards and have an answer at the ready when asked about the soft/hard refurb plans.

Let me expand. As I said, I've asked, and those that I asked didn't know or at least acted like they didn't. I'm sure they actually have some type of overall plan, they really have to have one to function long term. However, it appears that plan is to only fix what they have to along and to go with the same exact design down to the same tiles. Done appropriately, this is not a bad plan, just not the best plan, IMO. IF they were truly doing that well, I suspect we wouldn't have this thread going like it is. Also it has appears to me there isn't a set formal schedule of when it's to be done but rather they wait until many of the units in a given area force them to do so, again, a mistake IMO IF this is the case.

Another thing that many resort do when making major upgrades is to create a test unit. It allows them to test the materials, see how things fit together if there are substantial changes and to allow members to see the changes and give feedback. Even if the materials look the same they are not always of the same quality or hold up as well as expected. This approach can head off lots of issues.

 

[Deb & Bill]

...Can I have the villa cleaned at my own expense before check in?...

It will be cleaned before check in. All villas are cleaned before a new guest checks in. Did you want something different?

 

[Brian Noble]

go with the same exact design down to the same tiles. Done appropriately, this is not a bad plan, just not the best plan, IMO.

Disney being disney, though, changing e.g. the color of the tiles is not a decision to take lightly, and ceratinly not a decision that the captial-G-Guests would be involved in. This is squarely in the province of WDI, and they don't do anything without doing everything, because of course there has to be a story to everything they do.

That's really expensive, especially at WDI's internal transfer cost rate.

Expect nothing---not one thing---to change unless it absolutely has to. For example, the TVs will probably change, because sooner or later you simply won't be able to buy a CRT television. But, it will go exactly where it is now, because that's how WDI decreed it shall be. There are benefits to this---the attention to detail in the original design is usually pretty fanatical---but one of the downsides is that once the story is in place, well, the story is in place.

In fact, I'm positively shocked at the report that door hardware can be different colors. That is Not How It Is Done at Disney.

 

[Dean]

At a resort as large as OKW or even BWV, this really is an ongoing cycle. At least one cycle of refurbishment should be in the major planning stages at the same time that the last one is going on. One thing that happens sometimes though is that for major changes, it can often be cheaper to do them quicker rather than over time. Again, using OKW as an example and making the assumption they were planning to do as I suggest, a major redo, about 12-13 of the buildings should be undergoing some type of refurbishment per year. However, to spread a major expense with new counters and the extra costs of a hard refurbishment out over 5 years increased the cost and creates uncertainty for budgeting, not to mention unit requests. I know one of the Marriott's that had this plan and actually moved things up to do 10 buildings in 3 years rather than the 2 of 10 per year originally planned exactly for this reason. They actually did the last 60% all in a year because they found it to be that much cheaper to do so. That would be harder to do at WDW because it is not nearly as seasonal as is HH but the principles still apply. That's especially true now when one can get better contractor rates and material costs in the current economy.

Disney being disney, though, changing e.g. the color of the tiles is not a decision to take lightly, and ceratinly not a decision that the captial-G-Guests would be involved in. This is squarely in the province of WDI, and they don't do anything without doing everything, because of course there has to be a story to everything they do.

That's really expensive, especially at WDI's internal transfer cost rate.

Expect nothing---not one thing---to change unless it absolutely has to. For example, the TVs will probably change, because sooner or later you simply won't be able to buy a CRT television. But, it will go exactly where it is now, because that's how WDI decreed it shall be. There are benefits to this---the attention to detail in the original design is usually pretty fanatical---but one of the downsides is that once the story is in place, well, the story is in place.

In fact, I'm positively shocked at the report that door hardware can be different colors. That is Not How It Is Done at Disney.

True to a point Brian but IMO, things have changed over time. IMO it would be relatively easy at OKW to keep the same theme and make the type of changes I suggest. The cost would be no more than doing the same quality without attention to the theme. It would not be difficult to change the carpet, tiles, counters, furniture and cabinets without affecting the attention to theme detail. ASAMOF, I think things like flat screen TV's, reduced costs of granite and corian, newer appliance trends should actually force much of what I would suggest. VWL, SSR and AKV might be a little more of an issue due to the intricacies of such a change but those too should be doable with consideration of the issues involved.

 

[Brian Noble]

Yes, it would be easy to do, and over time it might well be cheaper to upgrade the look of the materials. But, nothing at Disney is easy, and I can't imagine that DVD/DVC has design freedom over refurbishments. It's just not the way Parks & Resorts works.

 

[Dean]

Yes, it would be easy to do, and over time it might well be cheaper to upgrade the look of the materials. But, nothing at Disney is easy, and I can't imagine that DVD/DVC has design freedom over refurbishments. It's just not the way Parks & Resorts works.

I doubt Marriott is any easier because they control which contractors and suppliers you can use and they take a cut off the top for management as I'm sure DVC does. For example, Marriott took on the owners at Beach Place Towers and told they they couldn't make certain choices they were trying to make. Marriott has made a decision to offer a certain level of and consistency of amenities, much like DVC did when they made the decision to have all villa amenities exactly the same. The resort was going to redo with 37 in off brand flat screens and Marriott said they had to use 42 in Sony's, among a number of other similar issues. They compromised with 40 in Sony's and in a few other places. Marriott threatened to cut ties with the resort. Besides the TV issues, the main one was charging members for parking which the resort planned to do and Marriott said no. IMO, Marriott was more on the correct side than the members and the resort in this case at the expense of the owners at that resort.

 

[hmmerr02]

Let me expand. As I said, I've asked, and those that I asked didn't know or at least acted like they didn't. I'm sure they actually have some type of overall plan, they really have to have one to function long term. However, it appears that plan is to only fix what they have to along and to go with the same exact design down to the same tiles. Done appropriately, this is not a bad plan, just not the best plan, IMO. IF they were truly doing that well, I suspect we wouldn't have this thread going like it is. Also it has appears to me there isn't a set formal schedule of when it's to be done but rather they wait until many of the units in a given area force them to do so, again, a mistake IMO IF this is the case.

Another thing that many resort do when making major upgrades is to create a test unit. It allows them to test the materials, see how things fit together if there are substantial changes and to allow members to see the changes and give feedback. Even if the materials look the same they are not always of the same quality or hold up as well as expected. This approach can head off lots of issues.

As the thread originator I thought it was time to comment again. A few questions have been asked about my handling of the situation. I did not handle it perfectly. The issues in the living room I did not address until check out. (carpet, stained sofa, broken chair). We were traveling with an infant/toddler and extended family. I knew moving units or having maintenance in several times was not going to work for us. And that is my fault. The issues of cleanliness in the bathroom I wasn't aware of until toward the end of my trip. It was in my parents room and they had not wanted to complain and embarrass me. So, I definately did not allow them the opportunity to fix the problems.

However, with that being said, these problems were so blatant that I don't feel like they should have existed. Certain things will happen and be overlooked, but large stains and broken furniture has to just be ignored by mousekeeping. There is no other way to avoid seeing it. I agree throughout this thread about the concern of the future of the DVC resorts based on the decline of OKW. As with the Contemporary, there comes a time to update and redo the interior of the room to make it modern and new. I love the theming of OKW...don't get me wrong. But I would like it even more if it had clean, new furniture, carpeting, reasonable beds and newer appliances/electronics.

I have not heard back from member satisfaction about the issues. I emailed them on Friday and got an automate3d response that I would hear from within 5 business days.

I love Disney and DVC. I just want my investment cared for for my benefit and yours. Yes, we expect higher standards from Disney. It's not an unfair expectation because they have maintained it for decades in their other resorts and in my opinion, a DVC property should be no different. Especially like another poster said...since OKW is the "flagship" DVC resort. I appreciate all the info and comments posted here.

 

[toocherie]

I love Disney and DVC. I just want my investment cared for for my benefit and yours. Yes, we expect higher standards from Disney. It's not an unfair expectation because they have maintained it for decades in their other resorts and in my opinion, a DVC property should be no different. Especially like another poster said...since OKW is the "flagship" DVC resort. I appreciate all the info and comments posted here.

Please let us know how and when Member Satisfaction does respond to you.

 

[Dean]

As the thread originator I thought it was time to comment again. A few questions have been asked about my handling of the situation. I did not handle it perfectly. The issues in the living room I did not address until check out. (carpet, stained sofa, broken chair). We were traveling with an infant/toddler and extended family. I knew moving units or having maintenance in several times was not going to work for us. And that is my fault. The issues of cleanliness in the bathroom I wasn't aware of until toward the end of my trip. It was in my parents room and they had not wanted to complain and embarrass me. So, I definately did not allow them the opportunity to fix the problems.

However, with that being said, these problems were so blatant that I don't feel like they should have existed. Certain things will happen and be overlooked, but large stains and broken furniture has to just be ignored by mousekeeping. There is no other way to avoid seeing it. I agree throughout this thread about the concern of the future of the DVC resorts based on the decline of OKW. As with the Contemporary, there comes a time to update and redo the interior of the room to make it modern and new. I love the theming of OKW...don't get me wrong. But I would like it even more if it had clean, new furniture, carpeting, reasonable beds and newer appliances/electronics.

I have not heard back from member satisfaction about the issues. I emailed them on Friday and got an automate3d response that I would hear from within 5 business days.

I love Disney and DVC. I just want my investment cared for for my benefit and yours. Yes, we expect higher standards from Disney. It's not an unfair expectation because they have maintained it for decades in their other resorts and in my opinion, a DVC property should be no different. Especially like another poster said...since OKW is the "flagship" DVC resort. I appreciate all the info and comments posted here.

The delay doesn't change the appropriateness of your comments, only the opportunities to correct the issue. This is one of the reasons I stated it's not always possible to do so at the time. I'm certain they will respond, this has always been an area where Disney, esp DVC, excels.

 

[Brian Noble]

I doubt Marriott is any easier because they control which contractors and suppliers you can use and they take a cut off the top for management as I'm sure DVC does.

It's one thing to require a certain minimum level of furnishings and amenities---sizes and brands of television, or thread count of sheet.

It's quite another to argue over whether this particular shade of aqua says "island time" more than that particular shade of aqua---and that's the sort of discussion Imagineering has all the time. If you haven't yet, take a gander at John Hench's excellent book "Desinging Disney" to get a sense for the level of control over detail that Imagineering typically has in any P&R project.

 

[Dean]

It's one thing to require a certain minimum level of furnishings and amenities---sizes and brands of television, or thread count of sheet.

It's quite another to argue over whether this particular shade of aqua says "island time" more than that particular shade of aqua---and that's the sort of discussion Imagineering has all the time. If you haven't yet, take a gander at John Hench's excellent book "Desinging Disney" to get a sense for the level of control over detail that Imagineering typically has in any P&R project.

I am quite aware but to get to that point you've first got to decide to head toward the hurdle. It's hard to imagine that they couldn't agree something needs to be done and that's where I think your point comes in, what to do and how to do it. It's like draft day for a sports team, there has to be someone who takes all the info and makes a final decision when the groups don't agree. If not, nothing of significance will every get done. I'd like to think that's Jim Lewis in DVC's situation and this is where his marketing background should help him.

 

[Brian Noble]

That's a fair point---and ultimlately, WDI's "customer" (which in this case would be OKW management) has a large say. But, WDI has to be involved, and that alone makes things ridiculously expensive, 'cause unlike Dumbo, they don't work for peanuts.

 

[Dean]

That's a fair point---and ultimlately, WDI's "customer" (which in this case would be OKW management) has a large say. But, WDI has to be involved, and that alone makes things ridiculously expensive, 'cause unlike Dumbo, they don't work for peanuts.

No doubt as I referenced Marriott's hand in the pocket as well. I doubt Disney is any different, just not as obvious.

 

[hmmerr02]

I heard from member satisfaction today. They called and apologize for my experience. "Regretfully" there is nothing more they can do than to ensure my next experience will be better. Funny....I had already assumed that it would be. Anyway, I thought I'd let everyone know. She did say that OKW is slated for a hard refirbishment, although she couldn't tell me the timeline. Pretty uneventful ending, you guys. Thanks for all the discussion. I have enjoyed reading it.

 

[Debbie H]

They are renovating that building right now. It had scaffolding all around it and it was completely fenced in.

That's fine but there should not be anything dripping out of the fan in the bathroom onto the toilet seat. I also don't think they should be in the condition that it was in when we arrived. We are currently at SSR and it is very nice. A little tired though of trying to get into our home resort and it being sold out because of everyone staying at OKW because the points are cheaper though.

 

[Dean]

That's fine but there should not be anything dripping out of the fan in the bathroom onto the toilet seat. I also don't think they should be in the condition that it was in when we arrived. We are currently at SSR and it is very nice. A little tired though of trying to get into our home resort and it being sold out because of everyone staying at OKW because the points are cheaper though.

OKW is still easier to reserve overall than everywhere else at WDW other than SSR. How far out are you reserving?