Ok, don't want to fly, but...

[DLVisitor]

I live in Southern California....our first trip is next year (and I do mean FIRST trip) to WDW is next summer. Not sure if all the security at airports are what they are cracked up to be. Any good suggestions for an alternative route (other than flying)? Anyone done Amtrak? Does Disney have any deductions for Amtrak?

 

[PKS44]

Okay, I don't know you, so maybe you know something that I don't...but I doubt you are a security expert, so I am not sure how you can make any sort of informed opinion on the quality of security at airports...The media are reporting on some lapses, but I assume the end result does count for something. The end result of the security at airports right now is that of the hundreds of millions of people who have flown in the last few years a small unfortunate handful have died. I would add that it is hard to point the finger at security for any of the recent deaths...The 9/11 hijackers played by the rules, carrying weapons ALLOWED at the time...I am unaware of a single incident of a security lapse leading to harm coming to anyone on an airplane in the US...Furthermore you say you are looking for an alternative, presumably a safer one... Again, I am unaware of any legitimate information supporting the idea that anything is safer than flying...Certainly not driving with 42,000 deaths every year. I don't know Amtrak's record for deaths versus number of passengers, but I would bet on an airplane arriving in a safe and timely manner over any other route.

You seem along with a lot of people (my sister included) misled by recent events to believe that air travel is dangerous...That is just not supported by any intellectual or REAL information. Flying is safer now than it was, and it already was the safest form of travel...If the news would report every car death or bath tub death the way they do airline deaths, I doubt most people would get out of bed...The reason airline deaths ARE on the news--- it RARELY EVER HAPPENS! The fear of flying is emotional, not logical...Get over it.

 

[nuthut]

Well said PKS44, More people die every weekend on USA highways than die in one major airline crash. And most of those people are not far from home. I guess I either have stay far away from home or not get up in the morning.

 

[Andrew_Lubow]

To put things into perspective. If you figure 42,000 deaths by autos a year figured into the 159 passenger capacity of a Boeing 757 plane, slightly more then 264 planes would have to crash a year to equal the same amount of fatalities.

 

[GEM]

Geez. All the poor guy asked for was information on Amtrak - not a lecture.

 

[msdis]

DLVisitor

Since you really haven't gotten any direct answers thus far I can help a little. Amtrak has a very good web site and you should be able to get what you need for info. We live in the far northeast and I have entertained the same thoughts as you except that my DH says he will get on a plane in a second before he will get on a train. A co-worker and I has this exact conversation the other day as she took amtrak earlier this year with her small children; her dh stayed home. Our drive to WDW is around 25 hours. She said the trip was VERY long. It spanned about the same amount of time as driving and she had 2-3 "layovers". She said the terminals had security and she watched them like a hawk because she did not feel safe. There were a lot of what she thought were homeless people and she said one man kept circling her and her children. Not to say that the less fortuate are all bad people but she just did not feel safe at one terminal. She said the seats were fine for sleeping for her little ones and they used extra seats as the train was not full. She also said the dining cars were really good. I would guess from CA. it would be a very long trip also. If it makes you feel any better we were at WDW on Sept. 11th. We drove our rental car back over 25 hours straight to get home. It was pure HE**. We saw accident after accident after accident. Some of those I fear had to be dead. I/we hated flying before Sept. 11; mostly fear. I will never get over Sept. 11th and I'm sure MY fear of flying will never go away, but the statistics are right and those numbers I'm sure are what will get me on a plane in the future. DH says the only way we will solve this problem for us is to move closer to WDW. Good luck deciding, you're not alone!


BTW, if you have AAA you get a discount on Amtrak, and kids go for 1/2 price; 2 per each adult. It's really an inexpensive way to go.

 

[sumessefui]

I have never liked to fly, and on my first trip to FL, I looked into taking the train. As it turned out, the train was longer than driving, so I flew. I guess I will never like to fly, but it is the quickest way from here to there. Each person has to do what is best for them.

 

[OKW Gram]

DL Visitor:

Some info re: taking Amtrak to Florida - I have taken Amtrak to Florida for the past 7 or 8 years. I live in the Northeast and go from Providence RI to Orlando. I usually change trains in New York where I board the Silver Service train (which originates in New York) for the overnight ride to Florida. There are a lot of things you learn about taking the train after several ventures. First of all, the train is relatively inexpensive if you go in coach. However traveling in coach definitely has its drawbacks and the biggest one is sharing the restrooms with everyone else in your particular coach. Unfortunately not everyone is considerate enough to tidy up after themselves and the restrooms can get pretty disgusting.

For that main reason (and for the comfort and quiet) I always get a sleeper. Keep in mind that traveling on Amtrak in a sleeper is considered first class travel and as such is priced that way. The smallest sleeper they have is actually for 2 people so if you are traveling alone (which is my case) you still pay the price of the sleeper. When you travel in a sleeper, it does include the cost of all of your meals in the dining car. To give you some idea of how the cost runs, round trip for me in coach would be roughly $250. Round trip with a sleeper is costing me $800. I know that sounds very high but if you were to price round trip air in first class I do believe it would be very close in price.

All that being said, I absolutely LOVE my train ride every year. Usually I meet whoever I will be vacationing with in Orlando as almost always they fly. I have gone with a couple of people who took the train and also enjoyed it immensely. I am a daily commuter for work and truly enjoy riding and not having to pay attention to where I'm going. I can look out the window, nap, read, or just daydream in my own personal sleeping compartment (which includes a commode and a sink). The sleeping compartments also have little TV's that they show movies throughout the trip. I always think of my train ride as part of my vacation. The time it takes (leaves Providence at 7:00 a.m. and
arrives in Orlando the next day at noon) gives me time to unwind from work and then going home it kind of makes my vacation last a day longer than the others. Training from California is somewhat different as I have seen the California sleepers when I was waiting at the train station in Orlando. They don't all have separate commodes and sinks in the compartment, but they do have them for the individual sleeper cars and the coach passengers are not allowed to use them (which keeps the number of people using them to a minimum). I look forward to someday going cross country on Amtrak, but that will be a longer vacation.

I am definitely frightened to fly. Actually I did have a plane ticket to fly to Florida this January, but called the airline on September 13 and told them I wanted a refund. At that point they didn't have any kind of process in place for such calls, so they gave me the refund. Had I waited a couple of weeks as others I know did, they refused to give them a refund, so I guess I was pretty lucky. The reason I was going to fly was totally a financial one, but I was so apprehensive that I know I would have had to take Valium or something to get on that plane even if 9/11 never happened. But once it did, it made me realize that I should travel the way that I feel the most comfortable and for me that is train travel. You actually get to see something along the way. And you can get out and stretch your legs and breath fresh air in many of the station stops along the way. It is truly a wonderful experience and I look forward to taking my grandchildren on the train with me in the next couple of years. It is an experience that I want them to have at least once in their lives.

Dining on the train is a wonderful experience. You get to meet so many interesting people in the dining car as they sit you wherever there is room. The food is very good and the Amtrak staff is very attentive to your needs. It's just a fun experience and if air travel is not your thing, then try it. And if you know anyone who travels by train, check with them, and they can give you pointers for how to book reservations and what class you may want to travel in.

Sorry for such a long post, but this is one of my passions! I do NOT travel by train because of my fear of airplanes. I travel by train because for me, it is the most enjoyable way to get to my destination.

Oh, and as far as train accidents go, most of the accidents you read about involve freight trains. Amtrak has had some accidents, but I believe in most cases it is due to vandalism of some sort with the tracks, etc. The accident they had several years ago in Louisiana where the cars went into the water was due to the barge that hit the bridge earlier in the morning and never reported the accident. It weakened the bridge and the rest is history. I am not nieve enough to think that any means of travel is not without risk, but for myself I prefer my risk closer to the ground.

Good luck with your decision. I know I can't wait until Jan 22 when I board that Acela regional and begin another journey to the happiest place on earth.

 

[ducklite]

Amtrak from California is three full days, assuming it arrives on time, which Amtrak seldom does.

So now that you've used your weeks vacation getting there and back...

Also, as another poster mentioned, some of the stations you have to get off at are not the best places to be.

I would also suspect that the fare on Amtrak will actually be more expensive than flying.

Amtrak also has had it's share of fatal accidents. From 1997-2000, 28 passengers died and over 2300 sustained serious injury in train accidents. That is only passengers, and doesn't count crew, etc.

I don't know what you mean about "deductions", they don't offer you any discounts if you take Amtrak though, if that's what you are asking.

Anne

 

[beattyfamily]

Train = VERY expensive for how long it takes and NOT any safer than a plane.

If I didn't want to fly, but I am in 9 days and 22 hours, I would drive.

Good luck in what you decide.

 

[cindala]

Well, you are definately not alone in your fear of flying, and your lack of faith in the security measures in place at the airports. There are many people who feel as you do, including me, and although the fear of flying is emotional and not logical, telling someone to get over it is certainly a bit harsh, and I'm sure not the answer you were looking for.

Living right outside of NYC, makes it harder for our family to get over the incidents of 9/11, and this past Monday. Especially the flight this past Monday, since it could be the result of many other mechanical things that are being overlooked at this point because of the beefed up security and cutbacks. The former head of the Department of Transportation said herself, (can't recall her name) in a recent interview, that she flies because she has to, but she tells her family not to.

California is a long way to Florida, and considering all the other options, maybe it's just better to stay closer to home this year, and go to Disneyland. Good luck whatever you decide!

 

[Mr D]

And it won't be released until many months down the road that #587 was indeed brought down by an explosive device, if it was now then I would expect many many more people would refuse to fly, many less people would fly to Orlando, many less people would do tourism in Florida and then Jebb Bush would be calling his "brother" to help staighten out the news reports to make it sound like air travel is safe for all. I would keep my eyes and ears open about what is going on in Florida, it indirectly affects President Bush. Hey I think air travel is safe its the bums and weirdos at the train/bus stations that would scare me.

 

[beattyfamily]

That last poster really helped make the best decision about driving or Amtrak didn't he???

Why don't you start a thread in the debate board?

This thread is way too serious for the WDW Transportation Forum

I am editing this to lessen the confusion; I am replying to the last 2 posters only. The original question is fine, it's the last 2 replies that bummed me out and I didn't think were very useful. To each his own, though.

 

[LunarLady]

Actually, I believe OKW Gram helped to make the best decision. She was very descriptive in her post and let the questioner know what to expect from a train trip that she obviously enjoys every year. I've never ridden on a train and she makes me want to do this at least once in my life.

Others have pointed out that it will take FAR GREATER time to travel by rail than flying from CA, which is also a very important point no matter how it was phrased. Anyone with a fear of flying (regardless of how that fear came to be) will take the time into consideration and possibly take a two week vacation instead of one. No amount of insult, cajoling or trying to make people feel they are wrong to be afraid of flying is going to help the person who will just not get on a plane.

Statistics DO NOT MATTER to those who are afraid to fly. It's an emotional reaction and no matter how many times you tell Aunt Betsy that she's safer in the air than in her own bathtub, she's still not going to feel comfortable giving up that control. Telling her that it's absurd or unpatriotic simply makes her mad at you and solves nothing.

I don't feel this thread would be more appropriate on the DB. It's simply a quest for info and we shouldn't let one person who might be having a bad day get it pushed over there. There are many people who do NOT frequent the DB that may have the same questions about trains and there is some good info here.

 

[CarolA]

I think the big issue you face is time. I do have a question for the wonderful poster who KNOWS how the last flight crashed? Do you have a crystal ball? I think your statement was out of line!!! The truth is we may never know why that plane crashed. There are lots of plane crashes that are never fully explained. However, the one thing the last crash bought home to me is that you can just as easily die sitting in your living room watching TV so I just keep on going one way or the other.

 

[Mickeyfaniam]

Gem...my thoughts exactly!!
DLvisitor...I hope you don't let that keep you from asking a question ever again!

and due to lack of time Gem is as far as I have read.

 

[PKS44]

GEM wrote: "Geez. All the poor guy asked for was information on Amtrak - not a lecture"

The question has some implications that should not be allowed to go unchallenged. Let's make the inaccuracies in the question a little harsher--suppose someone posted the following:
"Based on some anecdote... I don't like {Fill in the racial group of your choice}-when is the best time of year to go to WDW to avoid those people?"

This hypothetical question implies that thinking like this is okay. The assumptions of the first posted question here are also wrong and begged correction by facts -- just passing along Amtrak info is to tacitly approve of some foolish and dangerous notions implied by the question.
...whether reason /statistics/facts work in getting someone over their fear is not known from person to person...it may work for some (I know some who overcame mild fears this way) not for others...

I agree with CarolA to a point- you can die anywhere, but she also says "There are lots of plane crashes that are never fully explained. "
..actually outside of small private planes there are NOT a lot of air plane crashes, period. It just does not happen very often.

The comments about getting Aunt Besty to give up control also imply something false.-- that we actually have control significantly over accidental deaths. Beyond obvious choices, like to skydive or not, etc, whether on a train, or in our car, we have no control over those around us. Some choices like skydiving are more dangerous, some like flying on the airlines are less dangerous.

As for the idea that people closer to ground zero have a harder time getting on a plane after 9/11-somehow there are many New Yorkers flying in and out of NYC everyday since flights resumed, including people who were AT ground zero and survived to bury friends and loved ones-- Rudy Giuliani, for example. It can be done, and is, every day, every hour...

As for the poster who loves train travel- if you have a good time and the time is not long- great. For many of us, I suspect taking 6 days of vacation(to/from CA) to be sitting on a moving sardine can, no matter how much you can move around is not a pleasant way to use our precious vacation days.

Maybe this should be on the debate board...

 

[msdis]

Carol - you are right! I live only a couple miles from the airport. An airport that has lots of large military and large overseas planes that fly at night. We have seen airplane lights shining directly in our bedroom window at night that wake us up along with the noise, and we live on the top of a hill, bringing them closer to us, and I have often thought about one of them crashing into our home because they appear to be so low. So to say if you never fly you will never be killed in a plane crash is sort of the devil's advocate, though next to impossible odds.


Fear or not, how about fate? What about the 2 friends that were on seperate planes each crashing into the twin towers. Or how about the woman who was in the twin towers as it was hit, only to escape, to be killed on that American plane that crashed in Queen's last week?


Just because someone has a fear does not mean they NEED to overcome it. We all have things that make us less comfortable and I for one always seek out alternatives. After weighing things out you just have to do what's best for you. Right now, 1500 miles one way for us is an ordeal no matter what method of transportaion we use. California to Florida is also an ordeal. I'm glad OKW Gram had a very positive first hand train experience to share with us and I hope DLVisitor goes away from this post feeling good that some of us want to help rather than make them feel worse.