Official WDW Marathon Weekend 2013 Thread

[roomthreeseventeen]

Why thank you!

I have a random long run question for you, seeing as you are a coach...why are runners advised to do long runs at 1-2 min/mile slower than goal race pace, as opposed to trying to do them as close to goal race pace as possible? Is it a strategy that is less likely to lead to injury and forces you to be on your feet longer, or is there more to it than that?

Thanks so much!!

It has to do with building endurance.

 

[JCH]

Why thank you!

I have a random long run question for you, seeing as you are a coach...why are runners advised to do long runs at 1-2 min/mile slower than goal race pace, as opposed to trying to do them as close to goal race pace as possible? Is it a strategy that is less likely to lead to injury and forces you to be on your feet longer, or is there more to it than that?

Thanks so much!!

I have a question about this, too. My MM predictor has me at a 15mm marathon right now, I think this is pretty accurate since the measurements for the other races (12mm 5k, 14mm half) are pretty much what I've seen in races. My goal is just to finish.

So, if I should be doing a 16mm for training runs, is it a problem to walk the majority of the long run? My walking speed is almost exactly a 16 minute pace. I'd actually like to get it up to 15 so I have no sweeper worries on race day! Or should I try to work in a little running?

 

[r3ngels]

Hi everyone! Brand new to DISboards, and brand new to this thread! I have not been able to catch up on all 52 pages, please forgive me

I ran the Wine and Dine half in October and immediately fell in love with runDisney - so I am dragging my runnin' peeps to WDW for Goofy 2013! Resort and flights are booked - so excited!!

ETA did I say 52 pages? I meant 64!

Welcome to the DIS

 

[KRuns]

Welcome to the DIS

Thank you!

 

[cobbler]

Am I crazy.... or Goofy

I have never done a full but I am thinking of doing the Goofy this year.

I did the WDW half 2012, another half locally in 2011, signed up for a half in October.

Anyone out there complete the Goofy before they have ever ran a full?

I am kind of doing the same as you. I have done 5 half marathons with my 6th being the DL half marathon and I will do 2 more between DL and marathon weekend at WDW.

This will be my first marathon and I am doing the Goofy too. I plan on following the Galloway plan and I am lucky in that my scheduled long runs are just about the length or a touch shorter (with the exception of the DL half) than the other 2 half marathons I am doing.

 

[cewait]

Why thank you!

I have a random long run question for you, seeing as you are a coach...why are runners advised to do long runs at 1-2 min/mile slower than goal race pace, as opposed to trying to do them as close to goal race pace as possible? Is it a strategy that is less likely to lead to injury and forces you to be on your feet longer, or is there more to it than that?

Thanks so much!!

I have a question about this, too. My MM predictor has me at a 15mm marathon right now, I think this is pretty accurate since the measurements for the other races (12mm 5k, 14mm half) are pretty much what I've seen in races. My goal is just to finish.

So, if I should be doing a 16mm for training runs, is it a problem to walk the majority of the long run? My walking speed is almost exactly a 16 minute pace. I'd actually like to get it up to 15 so I have no sweeper worries on race day! Or should I try to work in a little running?

There is a mixed bag on whether one should train slower than expected marathon pace. Actually, I think most authors are saying it backwards. One should run training runs at a conversational pace. that is one where you could say 5-7 word sentences with little effort while running. physiologically speaking, one should train in the 85-90% of aerobic threshold pace. Then, if one has run enough hard interval and speed/hill runs to supplement the long runs, one should be able to run the marathon at a pace 1-2 mm faster than trained. The reason for running at this intensity on long runs is to force your body to learn to burn fat quicker and more efficiently through training adaptations.

Make sense?

What I find with runners in the 14+ MM range is that they should really run the marathon at about the same pace they train. What I see all too often is that the newer/slower marathoner will do is head out at a pace 2+ mm faster than trained and than once they hit 15-19 miles, the tank runs dry.

Not slamming folks in this pool, but what I see is that they just run the midweek runs instead of pushing hills or intervals. It's not really these runner's fault, its just that the training plan they follow simply says run 30 or 45 minutes with little other direction. See, I was once there with these folks. I then learned how to design a program and have never looked back.
Hope this helps

 

[JCH]

There is a mixed bag on whether one should train slower than expected marathon pace. Actually, I think most authors are saying it backwards. One should run training runs at a conversational pace. that is one where you could say 5-7 word sentences with little effort while running. physiologically speaking, one should train in the 85-90% of aerobic threshold pace. Then, if one has run enough hard interval and speed/hill runs to supplement the long runs, one should be able to run the marathon at a pace 1-2 mm faster than trained. The reason for running at this intensity on long runs is to force your body to learn to burn fat quicker and more efficiently through training adaptations.

Make sense?

What I find with runners in the 14+ MM range is that they should really run the marathon at about the same pace they train. What I see all too often is that the newer/slower marathoner will do is head out at a pace 2+ mm faster than trained and than once they hit 15-19 miles, the tank runs dry.

Not slamming folks in this pool, but what I see is that they just run the midweek runs instead of pushing hills or intervals. It's not really these runner's fault, its just that the training plan they follow simply says run 30 or 45 minutes with little other direction. See, I was once there with these folks. I then learned how to design a program and have never looked back.
Hope this helps

Thanks, Coach. I'll try to pump it up on the weekdays run. I will plan speed work one day and hills on another. I'll probably still keep my long runs at 16 mm. I pretty much plan on keeping 15 mm during the marathon itself. Maybe I'll ramp it up to 14 or 15 for training when it isn't quite so hot

 

[ColleenG]

There is a mixed bag on whether one should train slower than expected marathon pace. Actually, I think most authors are saying it backwards. One should run training runs at a conversational pace. that is one where you could say 5-7 word sentences with little effort while running. physiologically speaking, one should train in the 85-90% of aerobic threshold pace. Then, if one has run enough hard interval and speed/hill runs to supplement the long runs, one should be able to run the marathon at a pace 1-2 mm faster than trained. The reason for running at this intensity on long runs is to force your body to learn to burn fat quicker and more efficiently through training adaptations.

Make sense?

What I find with runners in the 14+ MM range is that they should really run the marathon at about the same pace they train. What I see all too often is that the newer/slower marathoner will do is head out at a pace 2+ mm faster than trained and than once they hit 15-19 miles, the tank runs dry.

Not slamming folks in this pool, but what I see is that they just run the midweek runs instead of pushing hills or intervals. It's not really these runner's fault, its just that the training plan they follow simply says run 30 or 45 minutes with little other direction. See, I was once there with these folks. I then learned how to design a program and have never looked back.
Hope this helps

So on the shorter midweek runs is it better to try to increase your speed? I get how hills can help, but we are right along the shore and the closest thing to a hill around here are the bridges.

How do you figure out what 85-90% aerobic threshold is? I really want to burn some fat!

 

[cewait]

So on the shorter midweek runs is it better to try to increase your speed? I get how hills can help, but we are right along the shore and the closest thing to a hill around here are the bridges.

How do you figure out what 85-90% aerobic threshold is? I really want to burn some fat!

Most definitely use the weekday runs to work on strength aka speed. I too live on a coastal plain and the closest thing I have to a hill is a driveway approach. Do you have access to a treadmill? If so, the little buttons that are usually on the left are the best hills one can make.

If not, then we are off to a high school track or even a distance along a street that you can mark off a quarter mile and half mile. Then run intervals. Start with 3 quarter mile intervals with a walk or light jog equalling the similar time it took to run the interval as a rest period between the interval. Add an interval a week. Then in September, change it up to half mile intervals.

The other day, this is a little advanced for a first timer but if you have the drive it is doable, run a tempo run. This is where run/walking gets weird since a tempo run is tough to perform with walk breaks. You are looking to start with a 20 minute run at an effort where you could barely say 2-3 words per breath. This is done after a 10 minute warm up and followed by a 10 minute warm down. After 2-3 weeks of this, add 5 minutes and keep adding every 2-3 weeks until you are up to a 45 minute tempo run.


With regard to the second question, without a HR monitor, the perceived effort for the 85-90% AT range is about where you can still carry on a conversation using 5-7 syllable phrases per breath. It sounds normal to the casual observer but just a bit faster and you will quickly lose the ability to say that many words per breath.

I put this into the conversation previously as Jenny Hdfield suggests HR ranges for running. If one does have a HR monitor, I recommend NOT following the 220-age (or anther age based formula) to determine HR ranges. The formula is flawed and only works for 10% or so of the population. It was derived on a flight across the atlantic on the way to a cardiologist conference and is based on a population of 17-23 YO male college students. The fact of the matter is that Max HR does not slow down 1 beat for every year we live.

A sub maximal test is needed to determine Anaerobic Threshold (AT). This is the point where the body is not longer aerobic and an effort that can only operate for a short period of time (minutes). It's also the point where fuel use is almost 0% fat. The test is simple on a treadmill. Simply warm up and then set the speed at a speed that you think you can run for 10-12 minutes. Say a 5-7 word phrase at the 1 minute mark. A friend should be there to note the HR. After a couple minutes say the phrase then add 1% to the elevation. Again, go for 2 minutes then say the phrase and add 1%. After 3-4 additions to elevation your phrasing will start to get to a point where you cannot say 5-7 words. The friend should note the number of words. continuing the elevation adds. As the effort gets hard to very hard your phrasing will fall to 1-3 words per breath. You will start trying to figure out a way to stop. The first time you can only say 2-3 words per breath, you still add 1% to the elevation and run 2 minutes. Say the phrase again and note HR. If you are not asking to quit, then add elevation. If you are asking to get off, run an additional minute and not the HR. That approximates your AT.

I went long - hope this helps

 

[miker1251]

So on the shorter midweek runs is it better to try to increase your speed? I get how hills can help, but we are right along the shore and the closest thing to a hill around here are the bridges.

How do you figure out what 85-90% aerobic threshold is? I really want to burn some fat!

I did my first marathon at Disney in 2004 at the age of 51. Since then the Disney Marathon is like my home course. I even did the first two Goofy Challenges. During the time I have been running I have looked at many different training plans. I have done a lot of research into why we as marathoners do things the way we do. I think everyone on this board owes Coach a big thank you for the advice he is giving. It took me a lot of time and many mistakes (injuries) to learn the things he is telling us. In addition, I would like to say, doing the different workouts midweek also help keep training a little more interesting and thereby preventing the running burnout so many people go through,

 

[BigEeyore]

Thank you coach Charles for being so helpful and taking the time to dispense such great advice! I'm still trying to figure out a training plan, and you seem to have some great tips!

 

[JCH]

Thank you coach Charles for being so helpful and taking the time to dispense such great advice! I'm still trying to figure out a training plan, and you seem to have some great tips!

Ditto! It feels like I have my own online coach thanks to Charles.

 

[VernRDH]

Indeed thanks to Coach for all the great advice. I have a question to add to the mix too.

I have been running for 5 years, never been a speedster, still 35 lbs overweight. Last year I had an Achilles injury (not ruptured, but very sore). I took some time off, did a lot of walking on the TM over the winter. Back to running outside in March. I am currently on week 2 of the Higdon Novice 2 plan for an October marathon.

In the last few weeks, my pace has improve dramatically. My half marathon PR is a 10:16mm pace, and I am currently averaging around 9:45mm on runs 6 miles and under. Last weeks long run of 8 was 10:43, which included me tripping and falling and a very hot and humid hilly course.

I am not sure where this new found speed is coming from during my shorter runs. I am not actively trying to go faster, I just let my legs go how they want to. On todays 5 miler, mile 5 was 9:18 .

Any thoughts? Did the rest over the winter help? I am by no means complaining about the increased pace, but I just don't know where its coming from. I have not changed anything else, and I am running better in week 2 of training than I was when I trained for the DL Half in '10 (which is my PR). I weigh about the same as I did then. And no my legs have not gotten any longer.

Again, not complaining, just trying to understand why and if I can/should expect more improvement. Not that its likely, but the October marathon I am running is one of the top Boston qualifiers. I would still have to improve substantially, but losing the weight and training well, I might get close.

 

[cewait]

Indeed thanks to Coach for all the great advice. I have a question to add to the mix too.

I have been running for 5 years, never been a speedster, still 35 lbs overweight. Last year I had an Achilles injury (not ruptured, but very sore). I took some time off, did a lot of walking on the TM over the winter. Back to running outside in March. I am currently on week 2 of the Higdon Novice 2 plan for an October marathon.

In the last few weeks, my pace has improve dramatically. My half marathon PR is a 10:16mm pace, and I am currently averaging around 9:45mm on runs 6 miles and under. Last weeks long run of 8 was 10:43, which included me tripping and falling and a very hot and humid hilly course.

I am not sure where this new found speed is coming from during my shorter runs. I am not actively trying to go faster, I just let my legs go how they want to. On todays 5 miler, mile 5 was 9:18 .

Any thoughts? Did the rest over the winter help? I am by no means complaining about the increased pace, but I just don't know where its coming from. I have not changed anything else, and I am running better in week 2 of training than I was when I trained for the DL Half in '10 (which is my PR). I weigh about the same as I did then. And no my legs have not gotten any longer.

Again, not complaining, just trying to understand why and if I can/should expect more improvement. Not that its likely, but the October marathon I am running is one of the top Boston qualifiers. I would still have to improve substantially, but losing the weight and training well, I might get close.

Guys, thank you! Actually, until recently I was an online coach for a major health club and well known triathlete/cyclist. Like my fellow Houstonian much of my basic experience comes from the school of hard knocks and the fact the Doc Hoover could put me back together when needed. I needed to know the whys, not only the hows and through my quest to understand, I also ended up coaching. First through USAFit and Galloway then as a cycle coach at that same major health outlet. One of the requirements for that position was that I needed to talk and discuss the benefits of HR training, nutrition, metabolic effects and why we were riding the profiles we were riding. That coupled with a gift of gab and a writing skill pushed me here and other boards.

Seriously, while I do this for you, it also helps me. I see you guys advance and gain strength and confidence. I guarantee that once the first timers reading this cross that finish line (5k, half, full, goofy) you will not be the same person. It sounds trite, but trust me, I have crossed with several first timers or come up on a first time finisher that I have helps and I see it in your eyes. That is a great source of energy for me as I go through the struggles of motivation. Thanks for the opportunity

Now with regard to the new found speed I am looking at two factors. One, your turn over quickened during your walking stint. The TM tends to shorted folks strides as they attempt to avoid the box at the front of the mill. They know they can do a certain speed on land so to keep up with their land speed, the only alternative is to quicken the pace. The next thing I will point at is a looser hip complex. I would guess that you may have stretched more during the no run period. Even if you did not stretch, the lack of running allowed the leg and hip girdle time to recover from the abuse of the previous season.

If you do not already, stretch after each runs enroll your legs with a foam roller. This will keep the muscle from creating a new injury. Also, run hills on your TM. This will keep your turnover quicker and will strengthen the back of the legs... You will also gain speed.

Hope this helps

 

[regul8ter18]

QUESTION (okay, 2 of them):

1. Do we know when Disney normally announces the 5K theme?

and...just for fun since this is a sort of stupid question ...

2. Any guesses on the 5K theme?

I'm considering signing up for the 5K but would sort of like to wait for the theme to be announced before I pull the trigger. Perhaps it will be Brave-themed?

So since people are guessing what the 5k theme is going to be I thought I would add my guess.

I think it will be A Monster Inc. theme since the Monster University is set to come out in the spring of 2013

 

[ColleenG]

Thanks Coach! I'll try some speed work at the track. Unfortunately I don't have a treadmill. Maybe it's time I suck it up and join a gym.

 

[ZellyB]

My husband and I are thinking seriously about doing the full marathon. DH has run a full marathon and several half marathons and he's tried for years to convince me to run with him. I took the plunge this year doing the Galloway method and am running my first half the first week of November. The plan is to just continue the training through January and attempting the full at Disney. Seems like a pretty great event to make my first marathon. That weekend also happens to be our 24th wedding anniversary and my husband's birthday so seems like a nice way to mark the occasion. We are researching travel and lodging right now and plan to make a decision in a few days (before the price goes up ). I'm hoping the amount of time between the half and the Disney run is enough to get myself prepared for a full.

 

[ColleenG]

My husband and I are thinking seriously about doing the full marathon. DH has run a full marathon and several half marathons and he's tried for years to convince me to run with him. I took the plunge this year doing the Galloway method and am running my first half the first week of November. The plan is to just continue the training through January and attempting the full at Disney. Seems like a pretty great event to make my first marathon. That weekend also happens to be our 24th wedding anniversary and my husband's birthday so seems like a nice way to mark the occasion. We are researching travel and lodging right now and plan to make a decision in a few days (before the price goes up ). I'm hoping the amount of time between the half and the Disney run is enough to get myself prepared for a full.

What a great way to celebrate! And the 20th annivrsary of the marathon should be fun too.

 

[VernRDH]

Guys, thank you! Actually, until recently I was an online coach for a major health club and well known triathlete/cyclist. Like my fellow Houstonian much of my basic experience comes from the school of hard knocks and the fact the Doc Hoover could put me back together when needed. I needed to know the whys, not only the hows and through my quest to understand, I also ended up coaching. First through USAFit and Galloway then as a cycle coach at that same major health outlet. One of the requirements for that position was that I needed to talk and discuss the benefits of HR training, nutrition, metabolic effects and why we were riding the profiles we were riding. That coupled with a gift of gab and a writing skill pushed me here and other boards.

Seriously, while I do this for you, it also helps me. I see you guys advance and gain strength and confidence. I guarantee that once the first timers reading this cross that finish line (5k, half, full, goofy) you will not be the same person. It sounds trite, but trust me, I have crossed with several first timers or come up on a first time finisher that I have helps and I see it in your eyes. That is a great source of energy for me as I go through the struggles of motivation. Thanks for the opportunity

Now with regard to the new found speed I am looking at two factors. One, your turn over quickened during your walking stint. The TM tends to shorted folks strides as they attempt to avoid the box at the front of the mill. They know they can do a certain speed on land so to keep up with their land speed, the only alternative is to quicken the pace. The next thing I will point at is a looser hip complex. I would guess that you may have stretched more during the no run period. Even if you did not stretch, the lack of running allowed the leg and hip girdle time to recover from the abuse of the previous season.

If you do not already, stretch after each runs enroll your legs with a foam roller. This will keep the muscle from creating a new injury. Also, run hills on your TM. This will keep your turnover quicker and will strengthen the back of the legs... You will also gain speed.

Hope this helps

Thanks Coach! I do hills during my midweek runs, my long run tends to be all flat with one bridge/overpass. I don't do the treadmill so much now that it is nice here in upstate NY. I do stretch after running and it seems to be helping. I am also working on a different fueling strategy, which I think may help me as well.

 

[microbe]

I've been reading this message board for the past few weeks while I've been going back and forth about signing up for the marathon. After reading everyone's uplifting and encouraging posts, I was motivated today to sign up for the Full!! As someone from northeast Ohio, I can't believe I'm saying this, but I can't wait for January to be here! I can't wait!