Octuplet Grandmother....WOW!

[m&m's mom]

For what it is worth, when my preemie was born I was told absolutely short nails and was sent home with a lot of medicated nail brushes to scrub with.
My DD came home w/ lots of monitors and tubes. There was no way I could have long nails around her.
I feel quite sure this lady is even thinking about the best for her children or she would not be in this situation.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

True, but there is no legal reason he has to refuse her treatment for her medical problem.

We can all look at the situation and say, "that's just not right." But the doctor had no legal obligation to refuse her treatment. Couldn't he also have been sued himself if he refused her medical treatment because "it didn't seem like a good idea."

Basically, if she met the requirements, then the doctor did nothing wrong (legally). He did nothing for him to lose his license.

Right the doctor did nothing wrong legally. I said before they follow guidelines.

Which in turn gives them the option to refuse to treat her for her fertility issues under the doctors guidelines.

So a doctor can be sued, but the people suing would not win, they have no case. It goes both ways.

 

[MaryAnnDVC]

True, but there is no legal reason he has to refuse her treatment for her medical problem.

We can all look at the situation and say, "that's just not right." But the doctor had no legal obligation to refuse her treatment. Couldn't he also have been sued himself if he refused her medical treatment because "it didn't seem like a good idea."

Basically, if she met the requirements, then the doctor did nothing wrong (legally). He did nothing for him to lose his license.

There's got to be some sort of guideline, and if there isn't there will be now (I hope). If 6 are OK to implant, what about 8? 10? 12? 20? What about the doctor's responsibility to the health and safety of the mother and multiple babies?

I noticed immediately about the long manicured nails and wondered how the heck she paid for them. My college student DD gets hers done, and I told her that if she has the money for that, she better not come crying poverty to me. My brother and SIL borrowed money from my parents one year for Christmas presents, and irked the heck out of my parents how they continued to spend money before paying my parents back, and I don't blame them. To me, if you're mooching off someone, you should have enough respect and gratitude to be frugal with your own luxuries.

Preemie babies or not, I just don't personally get it about having long nails. I keep them fairly short because when they were long, I was constantly conscious of what might be getting under them. But that's me.

Someone upthread mentioned that the father was just a young kid himself. How old is he?? She's 33, and her oldest is 7. She's not a young kid...I doubt he is.

I feel sorry for the grandmother. She bears no responsibility for what happened, except enabling her DD and that can happen very easily...I've seen it happen when grandchildren are involved, and it becomes a vicious cycle. I hope I'm never in the position of having to decide to use tough love on my child (your kids, you take care of them) when doing so might put my grandchildren in a less than ideal situation.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

There's got to be some sort of guideline, and if there isn't there will be now (I hope). If 6 are OK to implant, what about 8? 10? 12? 20? What about the doctor's responsibility to the health and safety of the mother and multiple babies?

Yes, there are guidelines in place and most doctors follow them.

The doctor on the TODAY show said they have gotten so good at it that implanting 1-2 is the guideline.

 

[Luvmy4boys]

Someone upthread mentioned that the father was just a young kid himself. How old is he?? She's 33, and her oldest is 7. She's not a young kid...I doubt he is.

Also I thought somewhere it said she was married for 7 years before she had these kids. She sure was busy after her divorce. Maybe she was trying to fill a void while dealing with the marriage break-up.

How many eggs did this woman have to begin with?

 

[bearynice]

Pete Werner, owner of this site, recently sent a cease and desist notice to the owners of the website d i s l i v e . c o m demanding that they stop using their site because the name is too similar to his. To avoid an expensive legal battle, they changed the name of their site. He has now sent a letter demanding they turn over the domain name to him or face a lawsuit. Not offering to pay for it, but simply demanding it be turned over. He apparently thinks he has absolute rights to the letters dis. Gosh, Pete, going after Disney next?

Just wanted to let you know a little about the “ethics” of the board owner.

 

[RitaZ.]

True, but there is no legal reason he has to refuse her treatment for her medical problem.

We can all look at the situation and say, "that's just not right." But the doctor had no legal obligation to refuse her treatment. Couldn't he also have been sued himself if he refused her medical treatment because "it didn't seem like a good idea."

Basically, if she met the requirements, then the doctor did nothing wrong (legally). He did nothing for him to lose his license.

You are leaving out one very important part of medical treatment: ethical obligation.

There has to come a point in an adult's life where he/she stops blaming mommy and daddy for every imperfection in his/her life. A point where one takes full responsibility for one's choices and actions. It's very easy to have children to have someone else care for them. Giving birth is the easy part. Raising them to become independent and productive members of society is where the real work lies. Why place that burden on one's parents? Why?

This is one messed up situation. Those poor children didn't ask to be brought into it. A selfish adult made that decision for them. "Unconditional love", my ***!

 

[DizBelle]

You are leaving out one very important part of medical treatment: ethical obligation.

There has to come a point in an adult's life where he/she stops blaming mommy and daddy for every imperfection in his/her life. A point where one takes full responsibility for one's choices and actions. It's very easy to have children to have someone else care for them. Giving birth is the easy part. Raising them to become independent and productive members of society is where the real work lies. Why place that burden on one's parents? Why?

This is one messed up situation. Those poor children didn't ask to be brought into it. A selfish adult made that decision for them. "Unconditional love", my ***!

Agreed. She did a very irresponsible thing. But, I know of a lot of irresponsible parents. There is no requirement to be responsible before you can become a parent. Actually, there are NO requirements before you can become a parent.

 

[Sandy321]

lots of interesting information -

thanks for sharing

 

[dispor]

I just wanted to comment about the cost... Yes, IVF is expensive (usually around $10,000), but that cost is usually for the initial ovary stimulation, monitoring, and egg harvesting. Often, a large number of eggs are harvested and fertilized. Some (usually 1-3) are transferred in that fresh cycle. The others are frozen for later use (called an FET, frozen embryo transfer). It sounds like that is what happened in this woman's case. The subsequent FETs are really not that expensive, especially if she went with a "natural" cycle.

The other thing to consider is that she may have had some kind of agreement with the fertility clinic, such as a clinical study. A woman I know had free IVF treatment in exchange for egg donation. I believe it was to test a new drug.

 

[Sandy321]

I thought she did get the cost of treatments because she worked there - I dont think she wanted to be too specific tho..

 

[fkj2]

What did he do that was illegal? All I can tell is that he provided fertility treatment to a woman with fertility issues. He provided medical treatment to a woman with a medical problem. Is there a psychological evaluation you have to go though and pass before you can be provided with fertility treatments?

If she had had all of these children the "natural" way, would everyone be upset? As far as I know, there is no law that dictates how many children you are permitted to have - regardless of your mental or psychological state. Do we sterlize men and women we don't deem fit to be parents? Is this something that is done that I wasn't aware of?

I don't recall there being a test you have to pass to become a parent of however many children you want to have.

I don't have any problem with a woman having these children...as long as she doesn't expect the taxpayer to pay her medical bills or otherwise support the children as they grow up. I certainly wasn't consulted for agreeing to support them.

You want to play...you pay.

As far as Grandma is concerned, it's a shame that anyone would so impose on a parent as they approach their later years. Instead of tending to their own needs, these grandparents are helping a child--not an immature one but one who should display better judgment--to care for all these kids. Culturally, many grandparents help out. This situation isn't any different except for the extreme number of children.

This mother could compete with the Wall Streeters in terms of being selfish, not only because of what she's placed on her mom and dad, but how she'll struggle going forward. Although her parents are still relatively young, they're entering the period in their lives when illnesses are more likely too occur and they'll have less energy.

Selfish. Nothing but selfish.

 

[eliza61]

Right the doctor did nothing wrong legally. I said before they follow guidelines.

Which in turn gives them the option to refuse to treat her for her fertility issues under the doctors guidelines.

So a doctor can be sued, but the people suing would not win, they have no case. It goes both ways.

It's not as cut and dry as that. (Dh left his practice for that lawsuit reasons).

People can & do sue doctors. Most law suits never reach the point of judgement. so a person sues and the case is settled for millions of dollars that is an issue. Doctors work for fertility clinics, these clinics also have vested interest in not getting sued.

The American society for reproductive medicine issues guidelines all the time on the number of embryos to implant but these are not laws they are guidelines.

 

[MaryAnnDVC]

I just wanted to comment about the cost... Yes, IVF is expensive (usually around $10,000), but that cost is usually for the initial ovary stimulation, monitoring, and egg harvesting. Often, a large number of eggs are harvested and fertilized. Some (usually 1-3) are transferred in that fresh cycle. The others are frozen for later use (called an FET, frozen embryo transfer). It sounds like that is what happened in this woman's case. The subsequent FETs are really not that expensive, especially if she went with a "natural" cycle.

But how many eggs do they get in that initial harvesting? Fourteen babies have resulted from 12 eggs. She said she had all 6 of the remaining eggs implanted because only one egg had "taken" during the first 5 implantations, and 2 with the sixth. If they had only implanted 2 eggs for the first 6 pregnancies, that would be at least 12 eggs, plus these 6...18 eggs. Do they really harvest that many eggs in a cycle? Yes, I understand it involves ovary stimulation, but still...that many eggs would result? AND all end up fertilized?

Agreed. She did a very irresponsible thing. But, I know of a lot of irresponsible parents. There is no requirement to be responsible before you can become a parent. Actually, there are NO requirements before you can become a parent.

But that's just it...SHE didn't do it alone. She did it with the help of medical professionals.

 

[DizBelle]

I don't have any problem with a woman having these children...as long as she doesn't expect the taxpayer to pay her medical bills or otherwise support the children as they grow up. I certainly wasn't consulted for agreeing to support them.

You want to play...you pay.

Do we mandate birth control for women on welfare (already being supported by taxpayers)? No.


Why is she any different?

 

[The Mystery Machine]

Do we mandate birth control for women on welfare (already being supported by taxpayers)? No.


Why is she any different?

Because the reproductive community does not implant that many embryos anymore.

That is why she is getting this attention. If she had twins or trips, this would not even had been an issue.

 

[DizBelle]

Because the reproductive community does not implant that many embryos anymore.

That is why she is getting this attention. If she had twins or trips, this would not even had been an issue.

So, if she ended up with 14 children as a result of 7 different implantations, this thread wouldn't exist (assuming we became aware of the situation)?

I don't think so. This particular thread seems focused on the number of children she already had plus the new ones and the hardship that is creating for the grandmother. Whether she had one implantation or 6 is immaterial to the topic of this thread.

The issue in this thread is the total number of children she now has.

So, if she only had 4 more children instead of 8 (total 10), everyone would be fine with it?

 

[shmoogrrrl]

What did he do that was illegal? All I can tell is that he provided fertility treatment to a woman with fertility issues. He provided medical treatment to a woman with a medical problem. Is there a psychological evaluation you have to go though and pass before you can be provided with fertility treatments?

I don't think you could get him for something criminal, but ethically he is in the wrong. Implanting 6 embryos (assuming that it is ONLY 6) is insane and I can't imagine any doctor doing it.

We went through IVF to get our little guy and they wouldn't implant more than two embryos at a time based on my medical history, age, and all that. I am older than she is (although at 35 I am not MUCH older) and usually the older you are the more embryos that they will put back.

 

[eliza61]

I don't think you could get him for something criminal, but ethically he is in the wrong. Implanting 6 embryos (assuming that it is ONLY 6) is insane and I can't imagine any doctor doing it.

We went through IVF to get our little guy and they wouldn't implant more than two embryos at a time based on my medical history, age, and all that. I am older than she is (although at 35 I am not MUCH older) and usually the older you are the more embryos that they will put back.

True but the industry is not federally regulated. It has guidelines but each clinic can basically operate to its own standards. Evidently she found one to do what she wanted.

 

[Handbag Lady]

I may have missed this in this thread, but the mother has a PUBLICIST now? Hello, she's out digging for money...at least that's what it appears to be with a publicist in tow.