Occupy Wall Street

[snarlingcoyote]

Frankly a strip search and night with the real criminals is what most of these bleeding heart protesters need... let them think twice about wasting peoples time with such stupid protests.

Then let's put their names out there with all the other civil disobedient folks. Thomas Jefferson, Ben Franklin, John Adams. All those rabble rousers. . .you know, the people who FOUNDED OUR NATION.

 

[hambirg]

So there's no cap on interest, yet some cards are STILL choosing to charge fees. So then, what would the difference be to just cap the interest? Sooner or later all or most cards will start charging the fees anyway right? Isn't $20 a year for a card cheaper than, say 25% interest on $10,000 ?

The real challenge is to get away from credit all together. The Federal Reserve is neither Federal or Reserve.

"Whoever controls the volume of money in our country is absolute master of all industry, and commerce ... and when you realize that the system is very easily controlled, one way or another, by a few powerful men at the top, you will not have to be told how periods of inflation, and depression originate."
-President James Garfield July 2, 1881

 

[hambirg]

Then let's put their names out there with all the other civil disobedient folks. Thomas Jefferson, Ben Franklin, John Adams. All those rabble rousers. . .you know, the people who FOUNDED OUR NATION.

You forgot all those other pesky folks like Ghandi, Martin Luther King and Martin Luther.

 

[Edgehopper]

Then let's put their names out there with all the other civil disobedient folks. Thomas Jefferson, Ben Franklin, John Adams. All those rabble rousers. . .you know, the people who FOUNDED OUR NATION.

Yes, I remember the famous incident when a British soldier threw pepper in Jefferson's face, and the entiree world wouldn't shut up about it for a week.

That led to the famous "Declaration of Independence" that began, "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that, uh, corporations are robbing the world of its dignity, man, and so we have to fight the man to, uh, do something."

MLK went to jail for breaking the very laws he believed to be unjust. These protesters don't even know what they're protesting, except some vague abstract devil they call "Wall Street." I don't think there's a very large contingent for abolishing laws against blocking traffic.

If the OWS crowd wants a revolution, it's going to get violent, and they will lose. If they want to stand around and make nuisances of themselves, they won't accomplish anything. If they took a page from the Tea Parties, got their candidates to win primaries, and won elections, then they might accomplish something. But taking the last approach would be actual democracy, which the OWS crowd could never allow--Despite their rhetoric, they know that the vast majority of Americans don't support their radical agenda.

 

[LIDisneyFan]

Then let's put their names out there with all the other civil disobedient folks. Thomas Jefferson, Ben Franklin, John Adams. All those rabble rousers. . .you know, the people who FOUNDED OUR NATION.

Right-and they were willing to die for what they believed. These kids, who I doubt understand what they are protesting, are crying over pepper spray. Yeah, that is real civil disobedience.

And by the way, if you don't like credit card fees and interest-how about you don't spend more than you can afford and pay cash, not credit. If you don't like foreclosures -how about people not get themselves into a financial position they cannot afford - I remember not buying my first home until I had 20% down, could afford a 15 year fixed rate mortgage, and had a years worht of expenses in the bank-I rented until then!

And I also remember when banks charged $10 a month for checking and 10 cents a check.

I am SICK of people blaming everyone else for their indulgent lifestyles.

 

[Edgehopper]

The real challenge is to get away from credit all together.

Brilliant! I can't think of a better way to encourage economic growth and help the poor than to make it impossible for anyone to take on debt! No more mortgages, no more small business loans--if you want to buy a house or start a business, you just have to work for 25 years to save up enough money for it! That'll show those rich *******s who don't need credit to buy nice things!

 

[Princess Dolly]

I like my CC rewards so I will keep using it. I just pay it off every month.

But yes in some ways this country has devolved into expecting things and not earning things. However, this country has also devolved into the rich get richer at nearly any cost and the middle class is feeling the squeeze. Cost of all goods are going up and pay is either level or in some cases going down (and I am not even talking about those losing jobs). My husband and I received 3% paycuts. Supposedly for payments toward our pensions but somehow that money is going to the general fund instead.

There are a bunch of crooks running our government and corporations. Protesting may be the only answer we have left. However, these guys in this particular protest, they aren't the ones.

 

[hambirg]

Brilliant! I can't think of a better way to encourage economic growth and help the poor than to make it impossible for anyone to take on debt! No more mortgages, no more small business loans--if you want to buy a house or start a business, you just have to work for 25 years to save up enough money for it! That'll show those rich *******s who don't need credit to buy nice things!

Uh. . I was referring to the sham that is the Federal Reserve. . .where credit is held and controlled only by a few, in the hands of an illegal privately owned corporation. If your local friendly grocer wants to give you credit, that's different.

Doesn't it bother you that all those things you just posted are in complete and total control by a few?

Btw, people have had homes and businesses for thousands of years before there were giant central banks.

 

[LuvsDragonflies]

Do any of you people being rude here understand any other way to get your point across? There have been a lot of different points of view and points given here, most of them pleasantly and respectfully put regardless of whether they agree with the other person.

Those of you that feel you must be rude to be heard? really, could you just go elsewhere please. I'd like to continue the conversation and you are mucking it up with your tantrums.

Thank you.

 

[SaraJayne]

I don't know about that. I noticed 10 years ago that the current climate was one of boiling frogs (or lobsters or crabs, take your pick). There's an old saw that is true: if you put a frog in a pot of water and take your time, gradually increasing the temperature, letting things sit if the frog shows any discomfort, you can eventually boil the frog alive and it won't ever protest because it will get used to the heat.

That's what's been going on in the USA for a very long time. And everytime someone feels discomfort there are people there to tell them what to feel.

I'm currently reading a book about how the mortgage crisis evolved (written by a real shifty character - his creds are that he's a WSJ report. ), and it is truly sickening reading about the greed at the top and the dishonesty and the outright fraud that funded and channelled it and created the whole mess. But ask the posters on these boards and they'll blame the people who took out the mortgages. Look at the talking heads on TV. They blame consumers. The truth is that the mess was a huge con game run by some people who, guess what? Have gotten to keep all the money they made by buying politicians, committing fraud and running con schemes.

I don't think there will be a revolution; I think there won't be a middle class and the vultures (or their descendents) who made so much money from this nation will fly off to some other country, stuffed to the gills with our prosperity. They have not one whit of concern for this nation except when they need to wrap themselves in the flag to convince us to do something that is in their best interest and not in the interest of our nation as a whole.

I agree with you, to a degree. I think people are much more aware now than they were even 10 years ago, and knowledge is power.

We are a fortunate family, in that we are comfortable financially. But, I'm angry at so many things happening in this country. It saddens me our middle class is being destroyed and so few people care.

 

[ColoradoDisneyFreaks]

Do any of you people being rude here understand any other way to get your point across? There have been a lot of different points of view and points given here, most of them pleasantly and respectfully put regardless of whether they agree with the other person.

Those of you that feel you must be rude to be heard? really, could you just go elsewhere please. I'd like to continue the conversation and you are mucking it up with your tantrums.

Thank you.

I see some snark, but not outright rudeness, and the snark is coming from both sides. Honestly given the topic of the thread, folks have been incredibly restrained in their comments, just because someone doesn't agree with you, doesn't make it rude.

My opinion, I think the protesters are a bunch of spoiled brats (Michael Moore included) who seems to think that just because they exist, everyone should just marvel at their very snowflakyness and bow down to their wishes.

While regulating Wall Street is a good thing, what they've got now isn't regulations, it's a whole bunch of attempts at crony capitalism, rewarding politician's "friends" while punishing their enemies and preventing competition because they might not have the right mindset. Both parties are guilty of it, no one is immune.

Given the current protest environment, with union strikers abducting people and violence in multiple locations, I can see where the police are on high alert, especially in NYC and on Wall Street which has been identified as a high priority terrorist target. Add in the fact that the protesters aren't in the area they were supposed to be in, and are attempting to block traffic and shut the area down (great cover for someone to sneak in and take advantage of to sow some chaos) the police are going to act as they can to clear it out. Note, I didn't say that these protesters are terrorists and going to cause problems, but agencies tasked with protecting the public, and like it or not Wall Street is public, do think of those things and try and prevent them, this is non-lethal, and the protesters are breaking the law. They won't see the inside of a jail unless there are outstanding warrants, just like everyone else, but they will need to abide by the same laws as everyone else. If they can't, then crying about some pepper spray is pretty petty, they could be in Syria and crying over the bodies of their friends.

 

[Acklander]

There are a bunch of crooks running our government and corporations. Protesting may be the only answer we have left. However, these guys in this particular protest, they aren't the ones.

But these are the guys who are willing to put themselves out there while the rest of us sit back and complain that someone ought to do something. And while they may not be able to articulate their demands, they understand why they are angry.
This is America's youth and they've been sold down the river. First they were told they had to study hard in school so they could go to college because you will get no where without a college education. We then raised the cost of tuition to astronomical amounts, but that's ok, just sign on the dotted line for your student loans. Now that they have the degree, that's going to guarantee that they will have a job, all the jobs have been shipped overseas because they're willing to work for less than minimum wage and no benefits. Meanwhile the rich are getting richer while paying less and less in taxes.

 

[Edgehopper]

Uh. . I was referring to the sham that is the Federal Reserve. . .where credit is held and controlled only by a few, in the hands of an illegal privately owned corporation. If your local friendly grocer wants to give you credit, that's different.

Doesn't it bother you that all those things you just posted are in complete and total control by a few?

Btw, people have had homes and businesses for thousands of years before there were giant central banks.

No, because I think you're overestimating the power of the Federal Reserve and underestimating the amount of government control over it.

As a general rule, I consider claims that powerful megacorporations and bankers control the world to be a form of silly conspiracy theory. Paul-ite and LaRouche-ite goldbugs are usually nuts ignorant of economics. The post earlier with quotes from Rothschild and Lindbergh was typical of these borderline anti-semitic conspiracy theories (not that I think you personally are anti-semitic, but much of the agitation about international bankers is).

If you have particular complaints about actions taken by the Federal Reserve, make and explain them, and we can argue about it. When the claim isn't more specific than "a cabal of banks is ruining the world," there's nothing to discuss.

 

[LuvsDragonflies]

I see some snark, but not outright rudeness, and the snark is coming from both sides. Honestly given the topic of the thread, folks have been incredibly restrained in their comments, just because someone doesn't agree with you, doesn't make it rude.

Plenty of people have disagreed, in a civil manner. There hasn't even been a reason to be snarky to anyone, except for a couple people who can't seem to just speak without being snarky.

Why should it be such an amazing thing to be able to discuss a topic without people getting nasty?

 

[ColoradoDisneyFreaks]

Meanwhile the rich are getting richer while paying less and less in taxes.

This is a rather disingenious statement. The rich, meaning the top 1% of the wage earners in the country pay 38% of all taxes collected. The lower 50% pay no taxes at all, and many of them get money back in tax credits. What they need to do with the tax code is not raise the rates, but eliminate stupid deductions and exclusions, as well as create a separate type of filing that allows small business owners to file their personal taxes as the business. Ideally, I'd like to see a flat tax with no deductions, or even better, no income tax at all and a national sales tax.

The government could take every penny the rich make and it still wouldn't make a dent in the deficit, much less the debt. The feds take in $3T a year in taxes, we don't have a revenue problem, we have a spending problem.

 

[ColoradoDisneyFreaks]

Plenty of people have disagreed, in a civil manner. There hasn't even been a reason to be snarky to anyone, except for a couple people who can't seem to just speak without being snarky.

Why should it be such an amazing thing to be able to discuss a topic without people getting nasty?

Like I said, I don't see the nastiness that you seem to see, given that people tend to read comments that agree with them in nice pleasant tones in their heads, and comments that disagree in nasty snotty tones in their heads, and there hasn't been anyone calling someone else an idiot, moron, or stupidhead, my personal favorite, it's been pretty civil, count yourself lucky.

 

[LuvsDragonflies]

Like I said, I don't see the nastiness that you seem to see, given that people tend to read comments that agree with them in nice pleasant tones in their heads, and comments that disagree in nasty snotty tones in their heads, and there hasn't been anyone calling someone else an idiot, moron, or stupidhead, my personal favorite, it's been pretty civil, count yourself lucky.

Maybe I just will

 

[Acklander]

This is a rather disingenious statement. The rich, meaning the top 1% of the wage earners in the country pay 38% of all taxes collected. The lower 50% pay no taxes at all, and many of them get money back in tax credits. What they need to do with the tax code is not raise the rates, but eliminate stupid deductions and exclusions, as well as create a separate type of filing that allows small business owners to file their personal taxes as the business. Ideally, I'd like to see a flat tax with no deductions, or even better, no income tax at all and a national sales tax.

The government could take every penny the rich make and it still wouldn't make a dent in the deficit, much less the debt. The feds take in $3T a year in taxes, we don't have a revenue problem, we have a spending problem.

When I say the wealthy who are not paying their share, I'm talking about the hedge fund managers who are paying a 15% tax rate on their income - you know - those people who work on wall street. The same ones who, in their spare time have been taunting the protestors while drinking champagne. Don't you think when you earn a billion dollars you should contribute more than 15% in taxes???
And I don't consider the fact that half of Americans on the bottom don't pay taxes to be helping your argument at all. Do you know how little a family has to earn in order to not pay taxes? That half of Americans earn that little is pathetic. I'm sure every one of those families would like to earn enough to pay taxes. I know there are plenty in that top 1% that think the rich should pay more in taxes.

 

[LIDisneyFan]

When I say the wealthy who are not paying their share, I'm talking about the hedge fund managers who are paying a 15% tax rate on their income - you know - those people who work on wall street. The same ones who, in their spare time have been taunting the protestors while drinking champagne. Don't you think when you earn a billion dollars you should contribute more than 15% in taxes???
And I don't consider the fact that half of Americans on the bottom don't pay taxes to be helping your argument at all. Do you know how little a family has to earn in order to not pay taxes? That half of Americans earn that little is pathetic. I'm sure every one of those families would like to earn enough to pay taxes. I know there are plenty in that top 1% that think the rich should pay more in taxes.

It has now become unpopular to achieve the American dream. If someone makes a billion dollars a year (who is that by the way) then paying $150 million is good enough for me.

And if you want to be a hedge fund manager you should go out an be one.

 

[ColoradoDisneyFreaks]

When I say the wealthy who are not paying their share, I'm talking about the hedge fund managers who are paying a 15% tax rate on their income - you know - those people who work on wall street. The same ones who, in their spare time have been taunting the protestors while drinking champagne. Don't you think when you earn a billion dollars you should contribute more than 15% in taxes???
And I don't consider the fact that half of Americans on the bottom don't pay taxes to be helping your argument at all. Do you know how little a family has to earn in order to not pay taxes? That half of Americans earn that little is pathetic. I'm sure every one of those families would like to earn enough to pay taxes. I know there are plenty in that top 1% that think the rich should pay more in taxes.

Yes, I know how little a family has to earn not to pay taxes, however, in what way does that justify taking more money from someone who earns more to pay for their "tax credit"?

Hedge fund managers aren't paying 15% on their regular income, they're paying 15% on any profits made from investments, in other words, Capital Gains. It's been shown that when you raise the capital gains tax rate, revenues go down, because the super rich (which now we're talking about the top .05%) don't invest their money when they get taxed at a punitive rate, they just park it somewhere to earn minimal interest, or invest it overseas where it's not taxed punitively.

Like it or not, we've now got a global economy, back in the late 1800's and early 1900's, the time of the robber barons, it wasn't easy to park money out of the country and get to it, so punative taxes could be applied and collected, even though it caused economic slowdowns. Now, you aren't going to hurt the rich by taxing them higher, you're just going to take that money out of the American economy and introduce it into another country's economy, most likely these days China. The government needs to get out of the business of picking winners, whether it's an industry like solar and wind or an individual company like AIG and Goldman Sachs and back to the business of ensuring that companies, all companies, aren't operating under usurious standards and dangerous practices. We also have to balance that against the fact that China is an up and coming economy, and they have a much more lenient business environment so if we make it too hard for companies to do business in our country, they'll take their ball and go away.