Not to reopen that can of worms but...

[Lucius Best]

Alright, so make this an interesting discussion. Share your opinion on what % of guests are in that group that doesn't know about FP+, doesn't know how to use it, doesn't have a phone, etc. I realize you don't know that number, but what makes for an interesting debate is when you state your opinion and defend it, not just say "nobody knows anything so we should just not talk about it". Tell me what you think that number is. The number of guests who do not use FP+ at all. Out of a typical 50,000 MK day. I guessed around 20% do not use it at all, for the reasons you stated among others. Do you concur? Disagree? 10%? 30%? 50%? What?

Your 20% is not an opinion, that's just a guess. My opinion is that it is pointless to pull a number out of thin air when I have no knowledge or evidence of what the actual numbers might be.

Anecdotally, on our one FP+ trip, there seemed to be a lot of people in FP+ return lines compared to FP-. That could be more people using FP+, or maybe Disney giving out more FP+, or it could just be the bottleneck where Magicbands are scanned, or different crowd levels, or it could be my faulty memory.

We also saw no decrease in "uninformed" park guests who had no idea what they were doing, i.e. the people who couldn't figure out FP- were also overwhelmed when it came to FP+. We saw people trying to get into the 7DMT FP queue with their Magicbands, they had no FP+, they just thought they could get in with their Magicbands alone. People standing in a 30 minute standby queue when you could get a FP with return time 5 minutes away. People in standby queue loudly wondering where all those people in the FP queue were going.

 

[JimmyV]

The numbers are there to show that attendance and profit have increased since the Borax powder was replaced.

...or the closure of Mr. Toad
...or the opening of the Tangled restrooms
...or the opening of WWoHP up the road
...or the jump in the DJIA from 10,000 to 18,000
...or the decrease in the unemployment rate from 8% to 4.5%.

 

[MrInfinity]

Your 20% is not an opinion, that's just a guess. My opinion is that it is pointless to pull a number out of thin air when I have no knowledge or evidence of what the actual numbers might be.

But you can ration, right? You've been to WDW? You've looked around? How many of those families there do you think are not using FP+ at all. That are wearing these bands, but didn't know you could attach rides to them, or chose not to use Fast Passes this trip, or whatever. No guess at all? Wouldn't you at least agree this number is low, and getting smaller? I guess if you don't want to discuss it then fine. Seems like your point is just "nu-uh". You don't want to share your own thoughts on what that utilization number might be, you don't want to say you think it's more or less than my guess, you just want to say my guess bears no value, and that's that. Alrighty then! I'm wrong to posit my opinion / guess, yet you have no constructive opinion on what you think is more correct.

 

[TheDisGuy]

It's funny but you could replace liquid soap with MDE and be just as likely to find stats to support that as Iger's comments about attendance. The numbers are there to show that attendance and profit have increased since the Borax powder was replaced.

Now this is brilliant. You are of course correct. Nothing Iger has said has created a causal relationship between FP+ and their increased revenues, nothing. Of course, he has said things that suggest the opposite like that per guest spending is up on increased ticket, room, merch, food and bev prices. To try and create that causal relationship that FP+ is obviously awesome because its increasing revenue because revenue is up after FP+ was introduced is ... just some sort of fuzzy logic. Your post on the other hand is brilliant mate.

For all we know if it weren't for FP+ attendance would be up more, revenues and profits and spending would be up far more.

 

[MrInfinity]

Now this is brilliant. You are of course correct. Nothing Iger has said has created a causal relationship between FP+ and their increased revenues, nothing. Of course, he has said things that suggest the opposite like that per guest spending is up on increased ticket, room, merch, food and bev prices. To try and create that causal relationship that FP+ is obviously awesome because its increasing revenue because revenue is up after FP+ was introduced is ... just some sort of fuzzy logic. Your post on the other hand is brilliant mate.

For all we know if it weren't for FP+ attendance would be up more, revenues and profits and spending would be up far more.

Ah yes, the "For all we know" argument. It always supports whatever mocking one is attempting to do, while presenting no point at all.
So are you trying to say that you think FP+ has led to Disney earning less money? Make a point instead of just belittling others' and we can talk!

BTW, FP+ is not a revenue generator. IOW, there will never be a balance sheet in which a line reads FP+: +$235M or whatever. FP+ is there to increase guest satisfaction. Iger did say clearly that it was increasing guest satisfaction. That leads to (in his words) longer trips, repeat customers, and more spending, which are money drivers.

 

[itchin2go]

Ah yes, the "For all we know" argument. It always supports whatever mocking one is attempting to do, while presenting no point at all.
So are you trying to say that you think FP+ has led to Disney earning less money? Make a point instead of just belittling others' and we can talk!

BTW, FP+ is not a revenue generator. IOW, there will never be a balance sheet in which a line reads FP+: +$235M or whatever. FP+ is there to increase guest satisfaction. Iger did say clearly that it was increasing guest satisfaction. That leads to (in his words) longer trips, repeat customers, and more spending, which are money drivers.

I am so confused as to why you are taking Disney exec's PR statements as the gospel truth.

 

[jtowntoflorida]

BTW, FP+ is not a revenue generator. IOW, there will never be a balance sheet in which a line reads FP+: +$235M or whatever. FP+ is there to increase guest satisfaction. Iger did say clearly that it was increasing guest satisfaction. That leads to (in his words) longer trips, repeat customers, and more spending, which are money drivers.

FP+ is intended to lock guests in to their Disney vacations. Don't you remember Saint Iger saying that multiple times on those analyst calls?

 

[MrInfinity]

FP+ is intended to lock guests in to their Disney vacations. Don't you remember Saint Iger saying that multiple times on those analyst calls?

Agreed, yes. Altho that's a negative spin, I think it was found that by having guests pick their parks earlier, they are more likely to spend a full vacation at WDW. This goes along w the ADRs too. By having ppl book them 6 mo in advance, you make it so ppl have pinned a park to a day, then they think of their trip along the lines of that ADR on that day and not just "day 6" or whatever.

 

[MrKnight]

IMHO while I have grown to accept the new system as I have no other choice I still do not like it at all, it has made planning visits to WDW a major headache especially when trying to coordinate with friends and family who purchase tickets at different times and do not understand how MDE works, not to mention the slew of technical glitches that come with MDE. The system strictly caters to long-term planners who plan every aspect of their WDW vacation in advance, it does not cater to casual park guests such as AP Holders and myself which is why I do not like the system.

 

[TheDisGuy]

Now this is brilliant. You are of course correct. Nothing Iger has said has created a causal relationship between FP+ and their increased revenues, nothing. Of course, he has said things that suggest the opposite like that per guest spending is up on increased ticket, room, merch, food and bev prices. To try and create that causal relationship that FP+ is obviously awesome because its increasing revenue because revenue is up after FP+ was introduced is ... just some sort of fuzzy logic. Your post on the other hand is brilliant mate.

For all we know if it weren't for FP+ attendance would be up more, revenues and profits and spending would be up far more.

Ah yes, the "For all we know" argument. It always supports whatever mocking one is attempting to do, while presenting no point at all.
So are you trying to say that you think FP+ has led to Disney earning less money? Make a point instead of just belittling others' and we can talk!

BTW, FP+ is not a revenue generator. IOW, there will never be a balance sheet in which a line reads FP+: +$235M or whatever. FP+ is there to increase guest satisfaction. Iger did say clearly that it was increasing guest satisfaction. That leads to (in his words) longer trips, repeat customers, and more spending, which are money drivers.

You very conveniently ignore 75% of the post.

And Iger repeatedly noted that FP+ was going to increase revenues in his conference calls. That was the point of locking people into their WDW vacation, so more of their Orlando vacation money would be spent at WDW as opposed to other venues.

 

[WillAustin]

I have to say that "guest satisfaction" is a vague indicator that can be easily manipulated in a survey.

I'd bet most, if not all, answer that using a FP for a popular ride is far more satisfying than waiting in a longer line.

Better for Disney could be getting people in and out of the park faster and doesn't mean guests are better off. Accommodating more guests over a given time period can be paired with a survey showing that people enjoy not waiting in line for their FP+ rides and it doesn't really mean anything regarding how many people actually end up better off than before. All the numbers are guesses. The idea that more people using FP make things a better overall guest experience is just an opinion, not a fact.

 

[MrInfinity]

And Iger repeatedly noted that FP+ was going to increase revenues in his conference calls. That was the point of locking people into their WDW vacation, so more of their Orlando vacation money would be spent at WDW as opposed to other venues.

Increase revenues -- yes. But indirectly.

That money will never be shown as "6-days, due to the guest wanting to go for 6 days, but then a 7th day they stayed attributed to FastPass+". It will just be a 7-day stay, no revenue will be attributed to FP+. They can do analysis, and say "since implementing FP+ and MM+, the average resort stay has moved from 5.2 days in 2011 to 5.9 days in 2015 or something like that. So they can try to look back at the average length of stay, plot it, and then if in 2013 they see it angle up, they can say FP+ had a hand in that. But you could also say it's just random, the economy, or Frozen, like anyone who doesn't like FP+ would do.

 

[3DisneyFanz]

Just curious if attendance at EPCOT spikes around Spring/Summer of 2016 and FP use increases is that going to be attributed to FP+/MDE or the fact a new ride is projected to be open?

 

[JimmyV]

Increase revenues -- yes. But indirectly.

Exactly. I think we are missing the bigger point. Cram 50,000 people into a park built to hold 35,000. Ration the rides so that each person can only enjoy 6.1 attractions per day, or, one every two hours. The guests then have to do something with their time since they aren't riding rides. Their choices are...sit on park benches or roam through stores and restaurants. And this choice became even more simplified when they removed the park benches. So in the end, we see indirect revenue increases. Ya gotta do something during the 10-12 park operational hours that you aren't riding rides.

 

[3DisneyFanz]

The funny thing about satisfaction surveys is they are usually creatively worded to get the results you want.

Please describe your FP+ experience:

1) Got everything I wanted
2) Got most of what I wanted
3) Got something I wanted
4) Didn't get what I wanted but I did use it
5) Couldnt get what I wanted and didn't use it

As long as you don't take #5 that's a positive experience in survey world. The reality for the survey taker may be vastly different but they aren't going to word questions to get answers they don't want.

 

[jtowntoflorida]

Agreed, yes. Altho that's a negative spin, I think it was found that by having guests pick their parks earlier, they are more likely to spend a full vacation at WDW. This goes along w the ADRs too. By having ppl book them 6 mo in advance, you make it so ppl have pinned a park to a day, then they think of their trip along the lines of that ADR on that day and not just "day 6" or whatever.

It's not negative spin to analysts, who want to know how Disney is justifying spending so much on this system. By saying "We spent $1B to lock people into their trips so they're not spending money elsewhere when they come to Orlando" Disney is essentially arguing that My Magic+ was not a frivolous use of shareholder money. They seem to have backed away a bit recently on the rhetoric that the MBs contribute to increase guest spending, as it appears the increase in spending is primarily due to the increase in prices. And now, I'm curious how they're going to keep up the "locking people in" rhetoric when Universal just crushed Disney when looking at attendance increases. Yes, Universal's overall attendance in lower, but an increase in attendance of almost 15% is something that Disney hasn't experienced in Orlando in a long, long time. Now that the numbers are in, it's going to be hard for Disney to say that attendance is being driven up by My Magic+ rather than just general improvement in the economy when Universal's increase was so big in comparison. Especially when they can look back a few years at DCA and see the huge increases in attendance brought on by the Carsland expansion. With My Magic+ now fully operational, and with nothing (attendance-wise) to show for it, and with them having both DCA, not to mention Hogsmeade and Diagon Alley, as shining examples of how to blow attendance out of the water, you'd think it would be obvious where to stick their money. And as a guest to the Florida parks, it's a disappointment that they stuck it in a "guest experience management" system rather than in new rides. In looking at their reports, it's clear to me that their focus in the near future as far as park offerings is on Shanghai, and not Orlando.

 

[jtowntoflorida]

The funny thing about satisfaction surveys is they are usually creatively worded to get the results you want.

Please describe your FP+ experience:

1) Got everything I wanted
2) Got most of what I wanted
3) Got something I wanted
4) Didn't get what I wanted but I did use it
5) Couldnt get what I wanted and didn't use it

As long as you don't take #5 that's a positive experience in survey world. The reality for the survey taker may be vastly different but they aren't going to word questions to get answers they don't want.

HA! I've taken two Disney surveys in the last week about my recent stay and this is totally true! I think the choices on the "rate my experience" were Excellent, Good, **something else in here I can't remember the wording of...the equivalent of Adequate**, Only OK, and Poor. I knew that "Only OK" and above were going to be positive responses, and that only "Poor" would be counted as a negative response.

 

[TheDisGuy]

HA! I've taken two Disney surveys in the last week about my recent stay and this is totally true! I think the choices on the "rate my experience" were Excellent, Good, **something else in here I can't remember the wording of...the equivalent of Adequate**, Only OK, and Poor. I knew that "Only OK" and above were going to be positive responses, and that only "Poor" would be counted as a negative response.

Right right, I have a local garage here I use, and they do customer satisfaction surveys, they ask you to rate everything out of 1 - 10. But, when they email you the survey they also call you and tell you that head office considers anything below a 10 as unsatisfactory, so, if I think they did a satisfactory job I have to assign a 10 out of 10 on the questions. They have been ranked number 1 in customer satisfaction the last few years running, I can't imagine why.

 

[JimmyV]

Purely rhetorical question here, but I would be curious to read what people think....

If FP+ is such a tremendous benefit to guests, and that in turn leads to greater guest satisfaction, which in turn leads to longer visits, more frequent visits and greater revenue, wouldn't Iger find it imperative to implement it across the platform in every park? Would a little thing like: "Locals will not like it" stop the CEO of a major corporation like Disney from implementing a revolutionary system that will reap positive ROI? How many other Disney parks outside of Florida use FP+/Magic Bands/MDE? (Honest question. I don't know). If the answer is, less than half. Or, just a few. Or, none...doesn't that reveal more about the impact of the sytems(s) than the chatter on this Board?

 

[Major Tom]

My head hurts.