Not to reopen that can of worms but...

[itchin2go]

It's a cop-out to say "none of us knows, thus if anyone wants to talk about it, their argument is defacto, flawed". Because we do know more than we think. Some ppl might just throw up arms and say "well we don't really know!" But we can all read the actual transcripts of the calls, in which we KNOW that FP+ has a higher acceptance than FP- by about 5-fold, and MM+ has increased guest throughput and per-guest spending. Now sure there is a member out here who can say they now spend LESS. But still we are looking at one-offs, and not the published stats of the overall trends.

I'm glad you can *know* from seeing an association between the 2, but I can't. Is it enough for a theory? Sure, maybe even a pretty good one, but I have seen or read nothing to convince me that any increased profits are solely because of the implementation of FP+. I do see why key execs might want it to *seem* that way, and that presents another wrinkle.

Just saying, "Better for Disney, better for everyone" doesn't make it so.

I am not clinging to an old system. I am having a debate on a message board, something I enjoy doing. This change has rocked our planning and touring more than any other change implemented in the time we've been going to the parks. It's notable to say the least. I have had my first trip, post FP+ and it went fine. We're going back in March. After research and planning, luckily, it hasn't changed our actual vacation much at all. That is WITH some machinations on my part though.

Regardless, I think it was money not well spent. It's my opinion - not stating it as fact. And I'm still trying to find the best way to "work" the new system to my benefit, something that these boards help with a great deal.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

LOL - I guess I assumed everyone sees the same commercials I do. *hits forehead*.

Yeah, here (Tennessee), they hawked FP+ on commercials like crazy. Almost as much as the Seaworld ones they're running now. I presume those aren't running locally either? Even back when offsiters couldn't book FP until day of, they were running commercials saying EVERYONE could prebook their FPs, which I knew wasn't true, and drove me nuts. I guess I should have seen it as a sign of where things were going (everyone can NOW prebook).

I watch a lot of cable and only network television on some nights. So I see national ads usually if at all.

Typically, there are National ads that everyone sees and there might be market/region specific.

Clearly, we won't get ads about coming to sunny Florida in winter since we are here. But we still get ads for the Florida keys, for example because it is a destination for most of the state.

For theme parks, I gave seen a Sea World as promoting their
Positive treatment of animals (and I think marine rescue as well, but not sure).

For Universal-I see Mardi Gras ads promoted heavily and Harry Potter on occasion.

Busch Gardens advertises when they have a new ride OR that they are a quick hop from Orlando.

Legoland---new hotel.

Disney--Florida resident tickets...
And oh wait--
I see one where a family is staying at the grand Floridian and go to the concierge where they give a huge list of all the things they would like to do and she says "I will see what I can Do". She then turns to her computer, they show the kids who gasp in amazement and they show her again with fairy wings.

But I think that is a generic ad.

I don't recall the FP commercial you talk about.

 

[WillAustin]

I don't recall the FP commercial you talk about.

I remember one that specifically talked about reserving a ride on the teacups from the comfort of your home. That might have been the first one though.

 

[itchin2go]

I watch a lot of cable and only network television on some nights. So I see national ads usually if at all.

Typically, there are National ads that everyone sees and there might be market/region specific.

Clearly, we won't get ads about coming to sunny Florida in winter since we are here. But we still get ads for the Florida keys, for example because it is a destination for most of the state.

For theme parks, I gave seen a Sea World as promoting their
Positive treatment of animals (and I think marine rescue as well, but not sure).

For Universal-I see Mardi Gras ads promoted heavily and Harry Potter on occasion.

Busch Gardens advertises when they have a new ride OR that they are a quick hop from Orlando.

Legoland---new hotel.

Disney--Florida resident tickets...
And oh wait--
I see one where a family is staying at the grand Floridian and go to the concierge where they give a huge list of all the things they would like to do and she says "I will see what I can Do". She then turns to her computer, they show the kids who gasp in amazement and they show her again with fairy wings.

But I think that is a generic ad.

I don't recall the FP commercial you talk about.

I recall the FP one mostly from when I was planning my November 2014 trip, because it irked me.

On youtube, put in Disney Fastpass commercial and they will come up. I tried to put a link to one, but it embedded the media and I don't know if that's allowed.

You can find more on youtube. I thought I recalled a family spinning on the teacups and a voice over saying, "And now you can prebook 3 fastpasses ...." or something like that.

I watch mostly Bravo. LOL. Those Real Housewives ....

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I'm glad you can *know* from seeing an association between the 2, but I can't. Is it enough for a theory? Sure, maybe even a pretty good one, but I have seen or read nothing to convince me that any increased profits are solely because of the implementation of FP+. I do see why key execs might want it to *seem* that way, and that presents another wrinkle.

Just saying, "Better for Disney, better for everyone" doesn't make it so.

I am not clinging to an old system. I am having a debate on a message board, something I enjoy doing. This change has rocked our planning and touring more than any other change implemented in the time we've been going to the parks. It's notable to say the least. I have had my first trip, post FP+ and it went fine. We're going back in March. It hasn't changed our vacation much at all.

Regardless, I think it was money not well spent. It's my opinion - not stating it as fact. And I'm still trying to find the best way to "work" the new system to my benefit, something that these boards help with a great deal.

I wonder if there is some credence to opinions shared that, in holding the patent, that this is money that can be recouped by selling a user agreement to another company for their use.

Would it be money well spent, then, if they could get a good chunk of it back?

I have no idea if this will occur. But maybe there is way more in this investment that we just don't see, yet.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I recall the FP one mostly from when I was planning my November 2014 trip, because it irked me.

Here's one:

You can find more on youtube. I thought I recalled a family spinning on the teacups and a voice over saying, "And now you can prebook 3 fastpasses ...." or something like that.

I watch mostly Bravo. LOL. Those Real Housewives ....

Never saw that one. But now I get all the discussion about "locking it in". I felt out of the loop on they one. Folks insisting that Disney was saying this and I'm all, where the heck did they get that idea. Haha!

 

[itchin2go]

I wonder if there is some credence to opinions shared that, in holding the patent, that this is money that can be recouped by selling a user agreement to another company for their use.

Would it be money well spent, then, if they could get a good chunk of it back?

I have no idea if this will occur. But maybe there is way more in this investment that we just don't see, yet.

Interesting - hadn't considered that.

 

[Major Tom]

I wonder if there is some credence to opinions shared that, in holding the patent, that this is money that can be recouped by selling a user agreement to another company for their use.

Would it be money well spent, then, if they could get a good chunk of it back?

I have no idea if this will occur. But maybe there is way more in this investment that we just don't see, yet.

Many companies will typically recoup large development costs by spreading those costs out across company silos as charge backs. We are seeing the first step of this with the announcement that MM+ is coming to Disney Land. Which means a hefty reimbursement will also come out of their annual budget. Perhaps the other three foreign park systems are slated for roll out as well.

 

[3DisneyFanz]

I wonder if there is some credence to opinions shared that, in holding the patent, that this is money that can be recouped by selling a user agreement to another company for their use.

Would it be money well spent, then, if they could get a good chunk of it back?

I have no idea if this will occur. But maybe there is way more in this investment that we just don't see, yet.

I don't see them selling it and they're actually being sued by another company who had a patent for the same basic system that I believe is claiming they pitched to Disney at one time.

I really believ their biggest benefit is in the ability to track you. Prior to the implementation of this they had no idea what your park patterns were once you went through the gates and if you didn't do charging privileges they couldn't follow your spending. Now they can know how many and which shops you go in and even if you don't link your credit card they can track your dining and spending habits. This will let them do more specific marketing and direct pitches to the people they know they can pull the most money from.

 

[MrInfinity]

I'm glad you can *know* from seeing an association between the 2, but I can't. Is it enough for a theory? Sure, maybe even a pretty good one, but I have seen or read nothing to convince me that any increased profits are solely because of the implementation of FP+.

Well of course nothing Disney does is solely because of one thing. Disney is in so many markets. FP+ however, has been a positive to their bottom line.

I am having a debate on a message board, something I enjoy doing.

Likewise! That's why I come out here. I enjoy the debate.

This change has rocked our planning and touring more than any other change implemented in the time we've been going to the parks.

Indeed! It has been quite impacting.

And again. We have to separate us... The Dis... a tiny 1% or less of Disney-goers, from the masses. Is FP+ better for most? YES! Is there still, to this day, 3 years later, some ppl on the Dis still claiming it's worse for them? Well of course!

It's notable to say the least. I have had my first trip, post FP+ and it went fine.

Mine, too. We did as well under FP+ as we did with FP-, yet it seemed "easier".

We're going back in March. After research and planning, luckily, it hasn't changed our actual vacation much at all. That is WITH some machinations on my part though.

Likewise. We've adapted.

Regardless, I think it was money not well spent. It's my opinion - not stating it as fact. And I'm still trying to find the best way to "work" the new system to my benefit, something that these boards help with a great deal.

Great, no objection to you thinking it's money well spent, but IMO it was money very well spent. And yes, the Dis, as always, is most beneficial in figuring out how to work w the system presented, not to complain about systems that do not exist any more. I love the Dis!

 

[larryz]

But FP+ was a win-win and it took the stock from $70 to $110, screaming past the DOW.

I think you're forgetting the impact of (a) increased advertising on ABC and ESPN stations, (b) a couple of blockbuster Marvel movies, and (c) the market pricing in potential earnings from Lucasfilm properties.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I don't see them selling it and they're actually being sued by another company who had a patent for the same basic system that I believe is claiming they pitched to Disney at one time.

I really believ their biggest benefit is in the ability to track you. Prior to the implementation of this they had no idea what your park patterns were once you went through the gates and if you didn't do charging privileges they couldn't follow your spending. Now they can know how many and which shops you go in and even if you don't link your credit card they can track your dining and spending habits. This will let them do more specific marketing and direct pitches to the people they know they can pull the most money from.

Isn't that the patent office's duty to differentiate between patents? How can Disney obtain a patent if someone else already owns one?

 

[3DisneyFanz]

Isn't that the patent office's duty to differentiate between patents? How can Disney obtain a patent if someone else already owns one?

Other than just saying who knows its a government agency and we all know how reliable those are I don't know the specifics. I do know that there are legal experts that believe the case actually has merit and could cost Disney a significant settlement amount.

 

[Mickey&Mouse]

I think you're forgetting the impact of (a) increased advertising on ABC and ESPN stations, (b) a couple of blockbuster Marvel movies, and (c) the market pricing in potential earnings from Lucasfilm properties.

.....and of course the record-breaking success of Frozen.

 

[jtowntoflorida]

I think you're forgetting the impact of (a) increased advertising on ABC and ESPN stations, (b) a couple of blockbuster Marvel movies, and (c) the market pricing in potential earnings from Lucasfilm properties.

Frozen. Don't forget Frozen. I can't remember the percentage, but Disney's consumer products section had a huge bump in profitability that was attributed almost exclusively to Frozen during at least 2 quarters. Revenue from ESPN is a huge part of Disney's bottom line. We focus on theme parks here, but media networks are actually the biggest piece of the Disney pie. http://www.statista.com/statistics/193140/revenue-of-the-walt-disney-company-by-operating-segment/

Isn't that the patent office's duty to differentiate between patents? How can Disney obtain a patent if someone else already owns one?

Claims in patents are written differently, and a later patent could possibly infringe on an earlier one. If just getting a patent made you litigation-proof, there would be no booming patent litigation practices.

 

[Major Tom]

Isn't that the patent office's duty to differentiate between patents? How can Disney obtain a patent if someone else already owns one?

It happens all the time with process patents. Patent examiners do their best to vet new patent applications against existing claims but there are no guarantees that issuance of a patent means the patent doesn't contain elements that might be common with or similar to elements of another patent.

 

[MrInfinity]

I think you're forgetting the impact of (a) increased advertising on ABC and ESPN stations, (b) a couple of blockbuster Marvel movies, and (c) the market pricing in potential earnings from Lucasfilm properties.

I haven't forgot those things, but this discussion is about FP+. I love Lucas, Marvell, etc, I even bought back into Disney stock because of these. Star Wars will be the biggest movie, ever. Thus, I think ppl need to be patient regarding things like DHS. These intellectual properties will hit the parks, it just takes time.

 

[larryz]

.....and of course the record-breaking success of Frozen.

I had managed to forget Frozen.

Thanks for dredging that up again.

 

[Phil Dunphy]

I haven't forgot those things, but this discussion is about FP+. I love Lucas, Marvell, etc, I even bought back into Disney stock because of these. Star Wars will be the biggest movie, ever. Thus, I think ppl need to be patient regarding things like DHS. These intellectual properties will hit the parks, it just takes time.

you forgot when you said that fp all by itself caused stocks to increase by half

 

[itchin2go]

Well of course nothing Disney does is solely because of one thing. Disney is in so many markets. FP+ however, has been a positive to their bottom line.

Well, this is a backtrack, but I'll let you have it because I like your name. I won't concede that it has been a positive to their bottom line, however, because I haven't seen anything indicating it and also because the expenses of the "innovations" were considerable. I don't know if it has or hasn't been a positive. Yet. Even if it's not a net positive now (truly have no idea), it may be in the future. Wouldn't even bet one way or the other at the moment.

And again. We have to separate us... The Dis... a tiny 1% or less of Disney-goers, from the masses. Is FP+ better for most? YES! Is there still, to this day, 3 years later, some ppl on the Dis still claiming it's worse for them? Well of course!

I don't see how you can make that conclusion. I don't know "most". I don't know how I would know how they feel. I guess you know more people than I do? (Wouldn't be hard, to be fair.) Has there been a non-Dis poll? I would love to see it. You may 100% be right, but I don't know where your facts are coming from.

Mine, too. We did as well under FP+ as we did with FP-, yet it seemed "easier".

It actually *did* seem easier ... after the throwaway room, and figuring how to divvy up my FPs between my husband and daughter, and staying up till midnight, and reading these boards incessantly (thank you mesaboy2 thread). But once I did all that and more (ad nauseum), yes, it did seem easier in the parks.

And yes, the Dis, as always, is most beneficial in figuring out how to work w the system presented, not to complain about systems that do not exist any more. I love the Dis!

You use the boards your way, I'll use them mine. I am never NOT looking for tips and tricks, but where else could I possibly go to complain about this? Sometimes venting is the healthiest thing to do.

Last post of the evening for me. I am slightly better today (from the cold from hell), but still feel kind of crappy, and yet strangely hopped up from the steroids. Still no voice. High hopes for tomorrow.