Not to reopen that can of worms but...

[Barnabe]

But you could sleep in. Doesn't that solve everything?

LOL! You really can't sleep in if you want to ride the popular rides without waiting in long SB lines. As everyone else has said, the best time to hit the parks is at RD.

 

[WillAustin]

And if we ever visit Epcot again, it will be our first time ever to NOT get a FP for both Soarin and Test Track.

Just spread it out over 2 days and you still can...

But seriously, we just rope drop the one we don't have a FP for. It's different though, when they opened the new version of Test Track, it was the last day of our trip. It was my son's favorite ride at the time and we were able to ride it 5 times before noon using rope drop, FP-, and single rider. Not so much on the next few trips.

 

[Barnabe]

Just spread it out over 2 days and you still can...

But seriously, we just rope drop the one we don't have a FP for. It's different though, when they opened the new version of Test Track, it was the last day of our trip. It was my son's favorite ride at the time and we were able to ride it 5 times before noon using rope drop, FP-, and single rider. Not so much on the next few trips.

That's the thing that I think is sad about FP+, kids can't repeat their favorites again and again without waiting in long SB lines. I remember how much I loved repeatedly riding my favorite attractions when I was a kid.

 

[MKMomma]

I'd like to see them try. It's not like they're out of room at WDW. And it's not like they're out of money since every one of those additional guests is more money in the coffers.

Just what is stopping them? Are there not enough constructions crews?

Building new rides cuts into their profits.

 

[mom2rtk]

Just spread it out over 2 days and you still can...

But seriously, we just rope drop the one we don't have a FP for. It's different though, when they opened the new version of Test Track, it was the last day of our trip. It was my son's favorite ride at the time and we were able to ride it 5 times before noon using rope drop, FP-, and single rider. Not so much on the next few trips.

That was sort of my point. We have never spent 2 days at Epcot and don't intend to start. We used rope drop for an extra trip on Test track, not to make up for what FP+ took away. And we really just prefer to ride together so will pass in single rider.

 

[Lucius Best]

When I was there, we waited in line at the kiosks for anywhere from 20-30minutes each time. So if I add the 5 minute return time to the 20 minutes I waited in the kiosk lines, it was not an improvement over FP-.

How many 20-30 minute FP kiosk lines did you wait in, and why? What were the return times?

My specific example was a slow day (morning rain) during a low crowd week. There were no lines at FP kiosks, until they started closing kiosks down early. We found that the more crowded the park, the longer the FP kiosk lines, and FP return times would be later. If the park is so crowded that the wait at a FP kiosk is 20-30 minutes, no way will rides have FP return times 5 minutes away.

On that particular day, FP+ was better, because a FP return time 5 minutes away did not exist with old paper FP system, and we took advantage. But that was an anomaly, during the rest of our week, return times for additional FP were later, and we got fewer FP than we used to under the old system.

 

[WillAustin]

On that particular day, FP+ was better, because a FP return time 5 minutes away did not exist with old paper FP system, and we took advantage. But that was an anomaly, during the rest of our week, return times for additional FP were later, and we got fewer FP than we used to under the old system.

Maybe not 5 minutes, but I remember a couple of times that Star Tours and Dinosaur had almost immediate FP return times. I don't recall the exact times though. Low crowd day.

 

[wisblue]

Maybe not 5 minutes, but I remember a couple of times that Star Tours and Dinosaur had almost immediate FP return times. I don't recall the exact times though. Low crowd day.

I've stayed away from posting on this thread because I don't think we need still another rehashing of why people love or hate FP+. The fact that it works great for some people and not well for others cannot have been more clearly established a long time ago.

But I do want to comment on this one factual point. My recollection is that paper FP return times were always at least 30 minutes out until the final few months when paper FP and FP+ were operating together. Am I remembering this wrong?

 

[WillAustin]

I've stayed away from posting on this thread because I don't think we need still another rehashing of why people love or hate FP+. The fact that it works great for some people and not well for others cannot have been more clearly established a long time ago.

But I do want to comment on this one factual point. My recollection is that paper FP return times were always at least 30 minutes out until the final few months when paper FP and FP+ were operating together. Am I remembering this wrong?

All I know is there were times when there was an almost immediate return available for both Star Tours and Dinosaur. Maybe it was 15-20 minutes. Never saw it on anything else.

Edit: After some quick research I believe the minimum was 20 minutes. Not long though. Short enough to pull the FP, ride standby, then ride FP immediately.

 

[jtowntoflorida]

I've stayed away from posting on this thread because I don't think we need still another rehashing of why people love or hate FP+. The fact that it works great for some people and not well for others cannot have been more clearly established a long time ago.

But I do want to comment on this one factual point. My recollection is that paper FP return times were always at least 30 minutes out until the final few months when paper FP and FP+ were operating together. Am I remembering this wrong?

I think you might be mistaken. I can remember times (this would have been in October 2011 and 2012) when the SB line would be shortish (like 15-20 minutes) and the FP return time would be essentially the same. I could never figure out why someone wouldn't just pull a FP and then go do something else that wasn't waiting in line, and then jump in the FP line right when the window opened. Yeah, you were still waiting 20 minutes, but at least you weren't stuck in a line for the duration.

Prior to the last few months of legacy FP, the first FP return time was 9:40 a.m. Maybe that's what you're thinking of? In the last months, they started giving immediate FP return times. I pulled a TSM FP at like 8:50 with an 8:50 return on our first trip with FP+ (albeit it was in testing). Since my FP window opened immediately, I was able to get right back into line and pull another one. We rode TSMM 5 times that day--once SB, once with our FP+, and three times with legacy FPs.

 

[Lucius Best]

But I do want to comment on this one factual point. My recollection is that paper FP return times were always at least 30 minutes out until the final few months when paper FP and FP+ were operating together. Am I remembering this wrong?

I agree, the minimum wait with paper FP return times was 35-40 minutes, don't recall ever seeing anything quicker.

 

[WillAustin]

I think you might be mistaken. I can remember times (this would have been in October 2011 and 2012) when the SB line would be shortish (like 15-20 minutes) and the FP return time would be essentially the same. I could never figure out why someone wouldn't just pull a FP and then go do something else that wasn't waiting in line, and then jump in the FP line right when the window opened. Yeah, you were still waiting 20 minutes, but at least you weren't stuck in a line for the duration.

We saw that quite a bit on low crowd days. I wondered the same thing.

I distinctly remember seeing the FPs weren't being distributed faster than the time was advancing. Probably a time when they might consider closing the FP machines.

 

[Barnabe]

How many 20-30 minute FP kiosk lines did you wait in, and why? What were the return times?

My specific example was a slow day (morning rain) during a low crowd week. There were no lines at FP kiosks, until they started closing kiosks down early. We found that the more crowded the park, the longer the FP kiosk lines, and FP return times would be later. If the park is so crowded that the wait at a FP kiosk is 20-30 minutes, no way will rides have FP return times 5 minutes away.

On that particular day, FP+ was better, because a FP return time 5 minuteszpainsaway did not exist with old paper FP system, and we took advantage. But that was an anomaly, during the rest of our week, return times for additional FP were later, and we got fewer FP than we used to under the old system.

At least 3-4 kiosk lines of 20-30 minutes. But I wasn't visiting the parks on a low crowd day in the rain. So I think that explains the different experiences we each had. But there were 5 minute return times for rides like philharmagic, teacups, and figment.

 

[CBMom01]

Our first trip to WDW was after FP+ was introduced, but by far the worst part was trying to explain the whole thing to my five year old. He didn't understand why the same ride could have a 10 minute wait once but a 2 hour wait the second time.

 

[Jennytoon]

Our first trip to WDW was after FP+ was introduced, but by far the worst part was trying to explain the whole thing to my five year old. He didn't understand why the same ride could have a 10 minute wait once but a 2 hour wait the second time.

That's funny. It reminds me of when my kids were little and mostly only watched taped stuff. It was really difficult when we went on vacation and they couldn't understand why they couldn't watch Dora the Explorer because it wasn't "on now".

 

[wisblue]

I think you might be mistaken. I can remember times (this would have been in October 2011 and 2012) when the SB line would be shortish (like 15-20 minutes) and the FP return time would be essentially the same. I could never figure out why someone wouldn't just pull a FP and then go do something else that wasn't waiting in line, and then jump in the FP line right when the window opened. Yeah, you were still waiting 20 minutes, but at least you weren't stuck in a line for the duration.

Prior to the last few months of legacy FP, the first FP return time was 9:40 a.m. Maybe that's what you're thinking of? In the last months, they started giving immediate FP return times. I pulled a TSM FP at like 8:50 with an 8:50 return on our first trip with FP+ (albeit it was in testing). Since my FP window opened immediately, I was able to get right back into line and pull another one. We rode TSMM 5 times that day--once SB, once with our FP+, and three times with legacy FPs.

I know that the first FP return time was always 40-50 minutes after park opening, so that's not what I'm thinking of.

Maybe I just never saw the short return times because most of our trips came at busy times of the year when FP return times were several hours out. Even when we visited at less busy times the return times were always at least 30 minutes out. I seem to recall others who visited more often, and at low crowd times, saying that return times were always at least 30 minutes out and expressing surprise in 2013 when those near immediate return times started appearing. I also thought I saw that FP returns of at least 30 minutes out are the rule at DLR now.

I can say with certainty that I never saw standby lines of 20 minutes for Space Mountain with FP return times 10 minutes out and 5-10 minute standby lines for Asteo Orbiter and Buzz. If standby lines are that short, who needs FPs?

On the issue of why someone would wait in a 20 minute line if the FP return time was only 20 minutes out, there are a couple of simple answers. One of them is simple ignorance; it has been reported that many guests thought FP was not free and/or not available to them. Another is that a person might have been holding a FP for something else and wasn't eligible to get one for that ride. Also, posted waits of 20-30 minutes often mean actual waits of something less than that so going through the standby line makes as much sense as getting a FP, wandering around for 15-20 minutes, and then coming back.

 

[WillAustin]

Also, posted waits of 20-30 minutes often mean actual waits of something less than that so going through the standby line makes as much sense as getting a FP, wandering around for 15-20 minutes, and then coming back.

I don't like waiting in line. Any line. I tried to use those opportunities to double up and get 2 rides for one standby wait.

 

[TheDisGuy]

As I was thinking about our trip, I had an epiphany...Disney's immense popularity has created a situation where they simply can't adequately serve the number of guests that come to their parks. They have to ration their rides because they simply can't build enough rides to serve all the people who come to their parks.

I agree the problem is one of capacity, but Disney could very easily have addressed this.

I know people like to talk up the great growth in crowds at WDW, but in reality over the long run crowds really aren't up very much.

MK is only up about 10% from 1991 !!! 10% over 25 years !!! You are telling me they couldn't build capacity up to keep pace with crowds over that period ?
EPCOT is down and flat
HS is down from its peak
AK is slightly up ...

 

[Barnabe]

I agree the problem is one of capacity, but Disney could very easily have addressed this.

I know people like to talk up the great growth in crowds at WDW, but in reality over the long run crowds really aren't up very much.

MK is only up about 10% from 1991 !!! 10% over 25 years !!! You are telling me they couldn't build capacity up to keep pace with crowds over that period ?
EPCOT is down and flat
HS is down from its peak
AK is slightly up ...

That's what I think is so interesting. A 10% increase since 1991 isn't very much overall growth.that people want to visit. If they had invested more into attractions at epcot , AK and DHS , maybe a ride rationing system wouldn't have been needed to manage crowds

 

[ilovefh]

We enjoy FP+ a little more than we liked the old system.

Our two scenarios:

On vacation we're a party of 8. We prefer to have relaxed mornings where we can sleep in and we don't get to the park until 10 or 11. With FP+ we don't have to worry about getting there early because we already have FP+ reserved. Under the old system we had to get there early or hope that fastpasses would be available when we got there.

As locals we would often go after school one night each week. With 3 adults and 4 toddlers we rode the rides that had small lines. By the time we got there nothing useful was left for fastpasses with the old system. We got there around 5 and left around 8 so we only had a short window. Now with FP+ my friends can reserve fastpasses in advance and can ride things like Peter Pan, which we never rode before.

My local friends, who can make FP+ reservations at 30 days out, actually have SDMT, Splash and Thunder made for the 4th of July.

And, a small tip for anyone staying onsite and meeting off site friends... In December I made FP+ reservations for our party of 8 at 60 days out. I then went into the app and copied the FP to my local friends who were obviously not staying on site. So because I was staying on site and I copied the FP to them they could hold passes more than 30 days out.