Not Sure How "Safe" I Would Feel...

[FayeW]

I'm not sure how this post will be received, however, I thought some of you would like to know about some of the strategies employed at your ports.

I work with a married couple who returned this week from their first cruise with their children (10 & 12). The gentleman is a native of Lebanon, but has been a Canadian citizen for more than 10 years, and has lived here for more than 15. His wife is Canadian (caucasian) and their 2 children were both born and raised in Canada. They all travel on Canadian passports.

They left for the airport to fly from Canada to Miami several hours before they were required too, because they are used to having Dad questioned by security.It is never usually a big deal, more of an inconvenience, but they expect it and allow adequate time for it. Absolutely no problem either before the flight, or upon landing in Florida. They set out on their 7 day cruise. Upon their return to Miami, when they were clearing customs at the port, they were interrogated at length at the port, and then escorted out of the building to another location. The mother and children were largely left alone, but Dad was told point blank "we know you were living in Boca Raton illegally in 2001, we have proof!" Of course, nothing is further from the truth,however they persisted. After having been there for some time, they were informed that there was some paperwork to fill in, but nobody there knew how to complete it, and it would be another hour or so until someone could come to do it. The wife commented about "why is this taking so long, we've already been here more than an hour an a half!?!" and the guy turned on her. Told her they were lucky to be dealing with him, he was the nice one, they could take her husband away, etc. All in all, they were there over 4 hours, made him sign documents (I have no idea what, neither does his wife really because she and the kids were kept in a separate area). There was no explaination, and certainly no apology. When they were finally allowed to leave, they asked to be taken back to the port building so they could take the shuttle to get their rental car, etc, and they were told to take a cab!

You know, I totally get that since 9/11, you have to be very careful and exercise caution and due diligence, but tell me folks, how safe do you REALLY feel, when you find out that the people in charge of protecting the access to your country are just making up lies and harassing tourists??? I'm glad that I don't have first hand knowledge of this kind of crap happening in Canada. Seriously, good night, and good luck!

 

[bicker]

That's the Patriot Act for you, and despite it all, Congress has renewed it, so that gives you some idea with regard to what our leaders consider appropriate, at this time.

 

[kristen821]

Wow that is horrible. I am not sure who to make a complaint to but there has to be somebody and I am sure somebody here would know. Most likely he has the same name as someone else, but nobody should ever be treated like that until they are proven guilty because of cases like this where the guy and family are perfectly innocent.

 

[Viking]

So much for 'Land of the Free'.
It looks more and more like the terrorists have won

 

[bicker]

Well, to be fair, it is well-established that people willing to kill innocents at the cost of their own life will always be able to do so. So, the conflict isn't intended to wipe-away the right of people to martyr themselves for their cause, but rather only to mitigate the effects, so their sacrifice has little meaning in the long-run. So whether they "won" or not is a matter of what impact they have 20, 30 years from now, not based on any minor perturbations that are experienced today.

 

[lillygator]

you also never know about people either. While I agree that treatment aspect is less than desireable but you also can't be too careful or too trusting.

 

[FayeW]

you also never know about people either. While I agree that treatment aspect is less than desireable but you also can't be too careful or too trusting.

I completely agree, however wasting their time making up lies and pulling a "good cop/bad cop" routine doesn't exactly inspire confidence in the system!

 

[kristen821]

I completely agree, however wasting their time making up lies and pulling a "good cop/bad cop" routine doesn't exactly inspire confidence in the system!

My guess is that it wasn't exactly a lie not that they had the right to treat this family like this. I am guessing that he had the same name as somebody else and he should have been apologized too.

 

[caitycaity]

you also never know about people either. While I agree that treatment aspect is less than desireable but you also can't be too careful or too trusting.

i agree with this.

no offense fayew, but sometimes we think we know people and we really don't. i used to work with a woman...i worked with her for 4 years. i ate lunch with her every day. i took the train home with her. i thought i knew her really well. i met her family. everyone here thought we knew her, but apparently we didn't. one day we came in and she wasn't here. hr told us that they couldn't tell us why, but she had done something serious that she could be prosecuted for against the company. to this day none of us "peons" here know exactly what she did (which is very unusual, usually someone says something eventually).

now, i'm not saying that the govt doesn't screw up, or that the guy you know was guilty of something. BUT, sometimes there is more than meets the eye, kwim?

 

[Nancy]

i agree with this.

no offense fayew, but sometimes we think we know people and we really don't. i used to work with a woman...i worked with her for 4 years. i ate lunch with her every day. i took the train home with her. i thought i knew her really well. i met her family. everyone here thought we knew her, but apparently we didn't. one day we came in and she wasn't here. hr told us that they couldn't tell us why, but she had done something serious that she could be prosecuted for against the company. to this day none of us "peons" here know exactly what she did (which is very unusual, usually someone says something eventually).

now, i'm not saying that the govt doesn't screw up, or that the guy you know was guilty of something. BUT, sometimes there is more than meets the eye, kwim?

I so agree! I have seen people that I have worked with for years and thought highly of all of the sudden being escorted from the store by security with all their belongings. I have seen a very well liked cashier being taken away in handcuffs. Things happen.

As for the OP, they probably flagged his name if it was the same as this other person. I agree the whole thing was overkill on the security persons side...and he and his family should have been apoplogized to, given a ride back to the port to get the car, etc.

 

[CathrynRose]

how safe do you REALLY feel, when you find out that the people in charge of protecting the access to your country are just making up lies and harassing tourists??? Seriously, good night, and good luck!

And somehow they should have psychic ability determining Tourist from Terrorist?

Because I was not there for this alleged harrassment - nor were you - I really dont have much of an opinion on it. This is 2nd hand, here-say.

It's funny because these are the same opinions which surfaced post 9-11, that we should have been more careful on whom we let into our country and now when they begin doing so, you get complaints such as these.

 

[ducklite]

Racism at it's finest. I'd like to remind all our lawmakers and law enforcement that Timothy McVeigh in all his WASPY glory was a terrorist.

Anne

 

[DisneyBaby!]

Yes,
How often do we hear that sombody was the "nicest guy" after they do something awful. Remember that John Wayne Gacy was a clown, a precint captain, someone who everyone knew and thought was a good guy and someone that could trust. But if you are looking for for an Arab Terrorist, you don't look at a Polish Catholic boy who grew up in the US. People are so against profiling and act like it is so wrong, but we don't know that the gentlemans name did not match the name of someone they were looking for or fit the profile of the current MO that is being used. Everybody has criticism for how the system is run, but nobody says how they would run things or the better way or the more effective way. What, we should do nothing and let people in that will blow up more buildings? Let us not forget that when the planes were hijacked on 9/11, they did not break any of the rules that were in place at the time, they used the poreosity of our system against us. So now we will have more restrictions. So far, luckily, we have had nothing happen on US OR Canadian soil.

But I have read our enemies are now recruiting women, caucasians, other minorities to the cause, so now everybody needs to go through the ringer. I guess I would rather people be more vigilant than let our enimies use our own rules, or lack of against us.

I am sorry that the man was treated so poorly. But if people are so worried about government intrusion, than lets talk about Smoking Bans and roadside checkpoints, Red Light cameras, Photo Radar, all things that your favorite local government is doing today that affects you everyday. So spare me the Big Brother, look in the mirror.

 

[caitycaity]

I am sorry that the man was treated so poorly. But if people are so worried about government intrusion, than lets talk about Smoking Bans and roadside checkpoints, Red Light cameras, Photo Radar, all things that your favorite local government is doing today that affects you everyday.

AMEN!

 

[Miss Jasmine]

While I understand that we don't really know people, I think the way that these type of things are handled can be vastly improved.

 

[laura001]

I agree that we can never be too careful, although it needs to be done respectfully.....while they are being questioned etc. The real kicker here is that even once everything checked out and he was clear to go, they were treated like second class citizens.

 

[wvrevy]

Tell your friend she should really count her blessings. They very well could have taken her husband from her, given her very little information other than "we are holding him for questioning", and sent her on her way. Lawyers? Not gonna help in that situation. That very thing HAS HAPPENED. A tourist from Canada was pulled out of line at a US airport and spirited away...to the middle east, where he was "questioned" about people he knew nothing about. He was gone for MONTHS before he was able to come home. And no lawyer could do anything about it, because the government could hide behind "national security".

Want to know how this can happen in the United States of America? Look no further than this thread, and the posts that are sure to follow mine. People are so pee-their-pants scared of the boogeyman terrorists that they are willing to surrender their rights - well, not "their" rights, but the rights of any of those brown-skinned types - in order to obtain an illusory sense of "safety".

Frankly, it sickens me that this kind of thing goes on in what used to be a country that really was a beacon of freedom for the rest of the world. Anyone that doesn't think that the bin Ladin types around the world are laughing at us as we move our country in the direction of their countries is simply fooling themselves.

For my country, please extend my apologies to your friend. But at the same time, make sure she knows just how lucky she is that it wasn't any worse than a couple ours of delay, because it easily could have been.

 

[Miss Jasmine]

Yes,
How often do we hear that sombody was the "nicest guy" after they do something awful. Remember that John Wayne Gacy was a clown, a precint captain, someone who everyone knew and thought was a good guy and someone that could trust. But if you are looking for for an Arab Terrorist, you don't look at a Polish Catholic boy who grew up in the US. People are so against profiling and act like it is so wrong, but we don't know that the gentlemans name did not match the name of someone they were looking for or fit the profile of the current MO that is being used. Everybody has criticism for how the system is run, but nobody says how they would run things or the better way or the more effective way. What, we should do nothing and let people in that will blow up more buildings? Let us not forget that when the planes were hijacked on 9/11, they did not break any of the rules that were in place at the time, they used the poreosity of our system against us. So now we will have more restrictions. So far, luckily, we have had nothing happen on US OR Canadian soil.

But I have read our enemies are now recruiting women, caucasians, other minorities to the cause, so now everybody needs to go through the ringer. I guess I would rather people be more vigilant than let our enimies use our own rules, or lack of against us.

I am sorry that the man was treated so poorly. But if people are so worried about government intrusion, than lets talk about Smoking Bans and roadside checkpoints, Red Light cameras, Photo Radar, all things that your favorite local government is doing today that affects you everyday. So spare me the Big Brother, look in the mirror.

So right there you are giving an argument as to why profiling DOES NOT WORK. Do you think the terrorists are really that stupid. They know how to get around these things. "Increased" security at airports is just expensive window dressing. The TSA is screwing up as much as the private-screeners were, they just get paid more and have more protections. Most of them are on a power-kick. They are all so much alike I swear they are robots. Unless you deal with the TSA and DHS on a daily basis you have no idea what a joke it truly is. It is mind boggling. Do I have the answer? No. All I know is that what is going on is not really working. We are just darn lucky another attack has not occurred here, and that is only because the terrorist have not really ramped up for the NEXT attack (and yes there is no doubt in my mind it will be sooner rather than later that it happens).

They can interrogate, harass, do whatever to EVERYONE who is middle eastern and of middle eastern descent, but an attack is STILL going to happen. To think otherwise is just crazy.

And yes I worry about ALL kinds of governmental intrusion.

 

[Nancy]

From the OP I get that this was more a case of a matching name and not profiling. Unfortunately people do have the same name. Every time I have gone for a mortgage or HE loan I have had to prove that I am not the dead beat drug user with a criminal record that has all kinds of liens against her, that has the same name as me...right down to her middle name. It's a pain and the first time it happened it had me really nervous. Now I know it will happen and I'm ready for it. Not the same I know...but I don't think we are all being alarmists. I'm sure we'll have another attack one of these days, where and when . I honestly don't think ANY of the measures we put in place will prevent it...cause I honestly don't think any of it really works.

 

[Miss Jasmine]

Nancy, my post was with regard to the post I quoted. That poster specifically mentioned profiling.