Not impressed with the current fastpass system

[Cafeen]

grabbing fastpasses is not the only reason for getting to the parks at rope drop.

even if we have fastpasses "reserved", we will still be going for rope drop... the lines are still shorter in the morning.

Except, FPs were the reason that some people got there at RD. Also, there were many people who skipped RD because they either couldn't get up that early, or didn't want to on vacation. This second group will now suck up some of those FPs they would have otherwise missed. Shifting the mid point. (No change for the first group).

I am assuming you are only allowed to "reserve" X amount of fastpasses. I would hope that you are still allowed to get fastpasses the "regular" way... ie, (you math majors, help me out here) you now are allowed to get another fast pass after a certain time.

how many fast passes can you get in a single day? (I always hated story problems) I'll bet, if you are there from rope drop to close, it's .. a whole bunch!! 6? 7? 8?

now, if I reserve my 3 alloted fastpasses from home 180 days out, and they are all for the evening (say, for darker rides, so those who have vision problems can see inside the ride) or whatever reason, will we not be be to obtain fastpasses at all during the day?

or maybe you can "reserve" 3 fastpasses, but the ones you get during the day won't be able to fall within a certain time frame fo those previously reserved?

makes your head spin.(I know thumper man's wife has a miley for that!!!)

The basic math is simple, once you can pull it out of story form.

The default "Next FP time" is 2 hours. So, take a mid-summer day of 9a - 12a and you have 15. Every two hours means you'd divide 15 by 2 and get 7.5. Drop the fraction for estimation sake and you have 7. Add 3 FP+s (testers were choosing 3 or 4, I think 4, but we'll go with 3 as it's better to round down in this case) and that makes 10. If we want to throw a little bit of a loop, we can assume that FP#1's return is very close, which pushes up the next available, and FP#2's hits right around hour 3 of park being open. This adds an additional FP available during the day, or a total of 11 (12 if FP+ gets 4).

So, in a 15 hour day, depending on return times, you can pretty easily get 7 under the current (and previous) system.

Now, what's yet to be seen, and we can only guess at are:

• How will FP+ affect your ability to get normal FPs? Will they be on the same system or different? Testing on this did not prove anything as they are normally "off-system" for tests of this nature. If they are "on system" this will not have much effect on total FPs alloted for the day. If they are "off system" this certainly will, even if the FP+ is removed from the pool. (As seen with the above math)
• Will they allow for multiple parks in one day? It's not too hard see cases where multiple parks in one day are valid. In fact, I do it most of the time. If FP+ allows for this, it will likely further remove FPs from the general pool for the ulta-popular rides. If I can get a TSM FP for 10a, a Soarin' FP for 2p, and a Space Mtn FP for 6p... that's not only a doable schedule, but one that pulls from the ultra-popular pools of 3 different parks, certainly not something that was possible before and thus will drive supply of FPs for those attractions further down.
• (This has been mentioned by several others) How will FP+ affect the total pool of FPs for an attraction? Will they keep it the same and allow FP+ to simply pull from it? Or will they increase it to make sure that they aren't all prereserved for FP+s as this would have a huge detrimental effect to non-resort guests (and especially those first timers who may see the whole thing as a "you have to pay for FPs" that they specifically avoided doing with the normal FP perks)
• How will the different levels of resorts be represented? This is fire for argument, but some have suggested that they may be broken up by the level of resort. If it's a case where Deluxe has more access or simply more FP+s (or first shot), then that's a very serious issue as they are now shifting into more of a "class"-based system, which is very bad (imo). It's one that I highly doubt will happen, but it's something to keep in mind. (Note: "class" in this case doesn't necessarily mean socio-economic class, as there are representatives from different backgrounds at all resorts, however, more of those from the upper class do use deluxes, whereas more of the lower class do use values, just based on economic factors alone

Now, of course, the above points are speculative, as that's all we've got right now. They do pose interesting (to me) viewpoints and potential issues for the FP+ system though.

 

[donaldlovesdaisy]

~I just love the idea of being able to tour an entire "land" efficiently, without having to wait until I pull the FP to know how much time I have before I can actually use it and then criss cross the parks to pull another FP. I hope FP+ eliminates this issue and I look forward to making my arrangements in advance. I know this isn't for everyone, but I think this will work out better for our park touring style. I'm very excited about it!

Same here!!

 

[MurphyJoe]

Will they allow for multiple parks in one day?

My hypothesis is no due to how I'm predicting the program to work. Based upon the YOAMD super fastpass and the current testing we'll have to select a park, then select x attractions from column A then y attractions from column B. The reasons why I don't think Disney will allow multipark FP+ holdings is most tourists are not familiar enough with the resort to know approx. travel time and would not be able to make selected return time windows (thus creating a possible customer service complaint), increased
usage of WDW transportation (leading to increased operating costs to run more buses between parks), and increased non-usage of FP+ return times due to guests deciding it's not worth the hassle to bus over to another park that day. Though, I'll accept the argument that the number of people who'd take advantage of multipark FP+ is so small that these are not serious concerns.

Though, if we can pull off your proposed itinerary, the PH option is going to look like pirate gold.

How will FP+ affect the total pool of FPs for an attraction? Will they keep it the same and allow FP+ to simply pull from it?

Hypothesizing once again, I am predicting that FP+ will pull from the general FP pool which is the reason why Disney is increasing the size of the FP pool now. From an operations perspective it makes the most sense. If we want a 60:40 mix of FP to SB riders during most of the day (for example) we can distribute the leftover ride windows with FP. Keeping two separate FP/FP+ pools means that it's possible to not fully distribute all available return times.

How will the different levels of resorts be represented?

Anybody's guess at this point. The idea that the level of resort equaling number of FP+ reservations came from (if I'm recalling correctly) a patent Disney received about number of ride reservations determined by class of service, or something similar. While I'm not going to dismiss this right off, I don't think this will be implemented in the way most posters seem to think. My hypothesis? Hotel level will not matter, but class of service will. If you're staying in a regular room from POP to GF (and everything in between) you'll receive the same FP+ entitlement. However, additional FP+ reservations will be available if you book at the concierge level. Perhaps not through the normal FP+ reservation system, but I'd be willing to bet the host or hostess could use a little magic and produce a few more FP+ than what's normally available. Much like restaurant reservations, concierge services will have n-number of
FP+ on hold each day for popular attractions that would be released into the general pool as the day moves forward.

 

[smidgy]

Except, FPs were the reason that some people got there at RD. Also, there were many people who skipped RD because they either couldn't get up that early, or didn't want to on vacation. This second group will now suck up some of those FPs they would have otherwise missed. Shifting the mid point. (No change for the first group).


The basic math is simple, once you can pull it out of story form.

The default "Next FP time" is 2 hours. So, take a mid-summer day of 9a - 12a and you have 15. Every two hours means you'd divide 15 by 2 and get 7.5. Drop the fraction for estimation sake and you have 7. Add 3 FP+s (testers were choosing 3 or 4, I think 4, but we'll go with 3 as it's better to round down in this case) and that makes 10. If we want to throw a little bit of a loop, we can assume that FP#1's return is very close, which pushes up the next available, and FP#2's hits right around hour 3 of park being open. This adds an additional FP available during the day, or a total of 11 (12 if FP+ gets 4).

So, in a 15 hour day, depending on return times, you can pretty easily get 7 under the current (and previous) system.

Now, what's yet to be seen, and we can only guess at are:

• How will FP+ affect your ability to get normal FPs? Will they be on the same system or different? Testing on this did not prove anything as they are normally "off-system" for tests of this nature. If they are "on system" this will not have much effect on total FPs alloted for the day. If they are "off system" this certainly will, even if the FP+ is removed from the pool. (As seen with the above math)
• Will they allow for multiple parks in one day? It's not too hard see cases where multiple parks in one day are valid. In fact, I do it most of the time. If FP+ allows for this, it will likely further remove FPs from the general pool for the ulta-popular rides. If I can get a TSM FP for 10a, a Soarin' FP for 2p, and a Space Mtn FP for 6p... that's not only a doable schedule, but one that pulls from the ultra-popular pools of 3 different parks, certainly not something that was possible before and thus will drive supply of FPs for those attractions further down.
• (This has been mentioned by several others) How will FP+ affect the total pool of FPs for an attraction? Will they keep it the same and allow FP+ to simply pull from it? Or will they increase it to make sure that they aren't all prereserved for FP+s as this would have a huge detrimental effect to non-resort guests (and especially those first timers who may see the whole thing as a "you have to pay for FPs" that they specifically avoided doing with the normal FP perks)
• How will the different levels of resorts be represented? This is fire for argument, but some have suggested that they may be broken up by the level of resort. If it's a case where Deluxe has more access or simply more FP+s (or first shot), then that's a very serious issue as they are now shifting into more of a "class"-based system, which is very bad (imo). It's one that I highly doubt will happen, but it's something to keep in mind. (Note: "class" in this case doesn't necessarily mean socio-economic class, as there are representatives from different backgrounds at all resorts, however, more of those from the upper class do use deluxes, whereas more of the lower class do use values, just based on economic factors alone

Now, of course, the above points are speculative, as that's all we've got right now. They do pose interesting (to me) viewpoints and potential issues for the FP+ system though.

well, bless your little heart!!! and I am happy to see the the numbers I pulled out of the top of my head were about right!!! yay me! ( I said 6?7?8)

so many questions we all have! I don't think even us ultra planners want to plan every minute of every day.. sigh... irt would be nice to reserve a few fast passes (like I posted, esp. to ride the dark rides at night).

I really hope it isn't linke to resort "status". so many of us like ALL the resorts. we are repeat customers. and just as worthy to disney if we are at al star music as when we stay at AKL. hhmm.. what about Dolphin?

and since we do plan on moving to florida in a few years, that also concerns us.

\guess we al have to wiat and see.

oh yeah, another thing. it is hard enough NOW, trying to explain and give advice about WDW to a novice frined planning a trip. with this, I can see their eyes rolling in the back of their heads, tremors starting, as drool runs out of their mouths!!!

 

[Colleen27]

After our first trip with the new FP enforcement I'm eagerly awaiting FP+ and will do whatever it takes to qualify, even if it does mean less frequent trips in order to afford deluxe resorts.

FP is absolutely worthless to us now. I didn't notice better availability - by 11:30, Soarin' FPs were for after 7pm (smack in the middle of our dinner plans), at 10am TSM was posting 90min standby with FPs for 5pm (we did pull those, then decided not to brave park-hopping in a downpour to use them). Getting/using FPs now does take more walking/criss-crossing, a lot more work for the FP runner (me), and makes evening plans difficult. It absolutely was a choice between dinner plans and FP returns, and that was okay for this trip - a short weekend trip for a special event, with rides taking a back-burner to the rest - but I can't see it working out for a whole family trip. DH & DS would have been frustrated from day one about being stuck with long standby lines or having to choose between our habit of nice dinners and actually getting on favorite rides without hour+ waits.

I'll be watching the development of the FP+ rumors and eventual announcements closely. Our next big family WDW trip is most likely going to be a couple days pre/post cruise in 2014 so hopefully the system will have evolved once again by then. In the meantime, I'm glad we're planning on the west coast parks for 2013.

 

[mom2rtk]

After our first trip with the new FP enforcement I'm eagerly awaiting FP+ and will do whatever it takes to qualify, even if it does mean less frequent trips in order to afford deluxe resorts.

FP is absolutely worthless to us now. I didn't notice better availability - by 11:30, Soarin' FPs were for after 7pm (smack in the middle of our dinner plans), at 10am TSM was posting 90min standby with FPs for 5pm (we did pull those, then decided not to brave park-hopping in a downpour to use them). Getting/using FPs now does take more walking/criss-crossing, a lot more work for the FP runner (me), and makes evening plans difficult. It absolutely was a choice between dinner plans and FP returns, and that was okay for this trip - a short weekend trip for a special event, with rides taking a back-burner to the rest - but I can't see it working out for a whole family trip. DH & DS would have been frustrated from day one about being stuck with long standby lines or having to choose between our habit of nice dinners and actually getting on favorite rides without hour+ waits.

I'll be watching the development of the FP+ rumors and eventual announcements closely. Our next big family WDW trip is most likely going to be a couple days pre/post cruise in 2014 so hopefully the system will have evolved once again by then. In the meantime, I'm glad we're planning on the west coast parks for 2013.

We're doing the same in 2013. We'll see you there!

In the meantime, I'm not playing as fast and loose with recommended park days. We used to go mostly with recommended days but braved a few "avoid this park" recommendations. So for now, we'll stop doing that. It's making this day planning thing MUCH harder.

I'm relieved then to let it all go and head west in 2013!

 

[Colleen27]

We're doing the same in 2013. We'll see you there!

In the meantime, I'm not playing as fast and loose with recommended park days. We used to go mostly with recommended days but braved a few "avoid this park" recommendations. So for now, we'll stop doing that. It's making this day planning thing MUCH harder.

I'm relieved then to let it all go and head west in 2013!

Me too! My hubby started a new job this year and won't know until April which of his requested vacation weeks we'll get, and we're planning on traveling in late July/early Aug. It is such a nice feeling to know that 3mo is plenty of planning time for this Disney trip! There's no way I'd try to pull together WDW in the peak of summer on that "short" notice.

We found that bucking the park recommendations worked well this trip. Our best times for rides were the after-midnight EMH, and since we couldn't do rope drop because of the special events on 2 of our 3 park days we packed a lot into those late hours. But I decided two trips ago that the planning sites are starting to become victims of their own popularity - some things, like rope drop, are great because not everyone will do them, but the best/worst seems like it makes less and less difference with every passing year.

 

[Lillabelle0]

Getting back to the original topic..I have just returned from WDW and found the fast pass system to be working great. Forcing people to return at the posted time has greatly reduced any stand-by time in the FP line. We walked on all rides without any wait. The only time we had to wait a short time, which was still less than 5 minutes, was when SM kept breaking. BTW, It broke just about every day we were there.

 

[Robo]

the only time we had to wait a short time, which was still less than 5 minutes, was when SM kept breaking. BTW, it broke just about every day we were there.

SM?




sm?

 

[mesaboy2]

Getting back to the original topic..I have just returned from WDW and found the fast pass system to be working great. Forcing people to return at the posted time has greatly reduced any stand-by time in the FP line. We walked on all rides without any wait. The only time we had to wait a short time, which was still less than 5 minutes, was when SM kept breaking. BTW, It broke just about every day we were there.

I was going to pass on this one, but since Robo bumped it....

I am bewildered every time someone makes this assumption. Therefore, I am bewildered a lot. How can any of us know this?

 

[larryz]

So, in a 15 hour day, depending on return times, you can pretty easily get 7 under the current (and previous) system.

You're assuming there will be any FPs left in the system in the later hours of the day. With up to 78% of them potentially being reserved, I anticipate a high demand for those few remaining unreserved FPs at the most popular rides.

 

[goofyernmost]

You're assuming there will be any FPs left in the system in the later hours of the day. With up to 78% of them potentially being reserved, I anticipate a high demand for those few remaining unreserved FPs at the most popular rides.

That number gets higher ever time someone posts it. It won't be long before it's at 115%.

 

[Lees3rwe]

I think the new system is working GREAT! We were tickled to return with our fastpasses and have less than a 3-5 minute wait to get on the rides.
Before, we would still be waiting 15-20 minutes because of all of the people returning at the wrong time.

 

[White_Sox_Fan]

Getting back to the original topic..I have just returned from WDW and found the fast pass system to be working great. Forcing people to return at the posted time has greatly reduced any stand-by time in the FP line. We walked on all rides without any wait. The only time we had to wait a short time, which was still less than 5 minutes, was when SM kept breaking. BTW, It broke just about every day we were there.

I feel that if you were "walking on" FP attractions via the stand-by line it had more to do with the crowds than FP enforcement. Two weeks ago the FP attractions were definitely not walk on unless you were there at rope drop or very late. One thing I noticed while waiting in the FP line at TSM was that the line inside didn't seem very long for the posted wait time of 90 minutes. So was the wait time wrong or are more FP's being issued?

That number gets higher ever time someone posts it. It won't be long before it's at 115%.

"I'm sorry but your attraction has been oversold As compensation we will offer a fastpass to Philharmagic and Pirates of the Caribbean plus a box of popcorn to those who voluntarily take a "bump"".

 

[mesaboy2]

I think the new system is working GREAT! We were tickled to return with our fastpasses and have less than a 3-5 minute wait to get on the rides.
Before, we would still be waiting 15-20 minutes because of all of the people returning at the wrong time.

Here I am again, bewildered, and it didn't take long at all. You know this how?

 

[Missymouse18]

I was there just last week and had no difficulty whatsoever with FP. In fact, I really didn't notice any difference in the old policy since I had always returned within my time allotment under the old FP rules.

 

[Senator Tressel]

I never had any wait in the fastpass line, even during the time when people would allegedly be coming back late. It was all in your head. Maybe not the wait, but the reason for it.

 

[White_Sox_Fan]

I think the new system is working GREAT! We were tickled to return with our fastpasses and have less than a 3-5 minute wait to get on the rides.
Before, we would still be waiting 15-20 minutes because of all of the people returning at the wrong time.

Never in my life did I wait 15-20 minutes in the FP line and most of my trips have been during peak season.

 

[TexasErin]

We were there last week and we all thought the FP return times were often longer than they used to be. And while we were still able to grab maybe 5-7 FPs per day, it was a pain having to either criss-cross back to the other side of the park or kill time in the same land if our FP return time was coming up soon, but there was something else we were wanting to do elsewhere. We also had to rush through our dinner at Tony's and a lunch at San Angel because our FP time was expiring quickly; true it was our choice to grab them, but it also would have been a hassle to have to go back later to grab a FP for 30 minutes later. We also got less done this trip due to criss-crossing and having to plan more about what areas or rides to be in because of FP return times. (Also got tired of rides continually being closed, but that's OT).

 

[Robo]

For every one Disser who used an after-window FP, there are at least a half-dozen who respond that they never did use a FP after-window.

And, since most guests were not aware of the allowed/encouraged after-window usage because they were not informed "insiders..."

Seems like the extra-long lines might have been due to something other than
insiders using late FP's.