Not impressed with the current fastpass system

[WillAustin]

So, now that we agreed that I am talking about very same wait times that the rest of the group, how do you see SB wait time longer then NOW if number of riders did not change? I understand what is your point but I want to see reasoning, if any.

I think putting more people through the FP line doesn't necessarily take the same number of people out of the standby line. And if they increase the ratio of FP vs standby that they let through to keep the fastpass line relatively fast, the standby line then moves slower.

As you've posted about the old system, the rides aren't running at capacity all the time, so the numbers aren't constant.

Unlike some others, I actually enjoy discussing this, and look forward to seeing how they figure it out and how we can best use it to improve our trips.

 

[kaligal]

There is no way that this won't benefit the resort guests. No point in doing all the trials, spending all the money and time if they aren't going to make a profit.

They are going to set this up as a benefit to resort guests so that more people will stay in their resorts.

They watched it work for Uni.

They hear people saying that EMH isn't enough.

Heads in beds. That is the whole point of this.

If I'm wrong, I'll admit it. Happily, too! But I don't think I am.

Eta: I said often enough that a system like Uni's might suck me back into WDW hotels, which I frequently avoid. But I meant a system LIKE Uni's. I didn't and don't want appointments for rides on top of appointments to eat. Don't want to need a Day-Timer for my freakin vacation!

 

[WillAustin]

Heads in beds. That is the whole point of this.

If I'm wrong, I'll admit it. Happily, too! But I don't think I am.

I think you are right too. But the fairness police won't be happy.

 

[donaldlovesdaisy]

Except they are not in the park getting them. Your assumption might be valid if all resort guests entered the parks at open. This is not the case. They get to sleep in knowing they already have them, where they didn't before. Again, there are fewer FPs available in the park to non-resort guests.

And there is something wrong with this?

 

[mom2rtk]

One of two things has to happen under the new system:

1) ride reservation times come from the number of FP slots currently issued. Whatever is issued ahead of time as a reservation will diminish the pool of what's available to pick up in the park during the day. If half go to advance reservations, then FP's will only be available in the park half as long as they otherwise would have been. Once the same day FP's are gone, guests will have to enter the SB queue or not ride.

OR

2) ride reservation times will be issued in addition to the current block of FP's handed out during the day in the park. Since that means more people will be entering the FP queue and since the FP queue has priority, the SB line will move at a slower pace.

I suppose an argument could be made that the people getting advance ride times will be the same people who would have picked up FPs at the park anyway, keeping the total number of FP people a constant. But I don't believe that for a moment. As I've said before, the easier you make it to get FP's, the more people you will have seeking out FP's.

 

[mesaboy2]

And there is somethign wrong with this?

I did not say it was "wrong". I said it would clearly change the current system of first-come first-serve in favor of "heads in beds". In my worldview, FCFS is about as equitable as it gets.

 

[Robo]

1) ...ride reservation times come from the number of FP slots currently issued. Whatever is issued ahead of time as a reservation will diminish the pool of what's available to pick up in the park during the day. If half go to advance reservations...

And, one of my principle reasons for doubting this version (mom2rtk's version 1) of the scenario is that if they only take HALF of the total "regular" number of FP's for reservations...
there simply will not be ENOUGH of the FP's available for reserving to make the roll-out of the new system viable.

What's the point of announcing a new program if most guests can not take advantage of it?

You can't increase the number of "heads in the beds," if there are not enough FP's to satisfy the needs and wants of the additional heads.

So, what could be increased by Disney to make the system easier to access for more guests?

 

[mom2rtk]

And, one of my principle reasons for doubting this scenario is that if they only take HALF of the total "regular" number of FP's for reservations...

there simply will not be ENOUGH of the FP's available to make the roll-out of the new system viable.

What's the point of announcing a new program if most guests can not take advantage of it?

You can't increase the number of "heads in the beds," if there are not enough FP's to satisfy the needs and wants of the additional heads?

Oh, I absolutely agree. Which is what makes this interesting. Something HAS to give. Gonna be interesting to see just which component it is.

I think the argrument others have been trying to make is that they were the "heads in beds" and that they would have gotten FPs anyway, making it a zero sum game. Same number of people getting Fps, just distributing them in a different fashion. I don't buy into that theory. I think the numbers seeking FPs will be greatly increased, which is where the problem will arise.

.

 

[KellyNY]

I think putting more people through the FP line doesn't necessarily take the same number of people out of the standby line. And if they increase the ratio of FP vs standby that they let through to keep the fastpass line relatively fast, the standby line then moves slower.

As you've posted about the old system, the rides aren't running at capacity all the time, so the numbers aren't constant.

Unlike some others, I actually enjoy discussing this, and look forward to seeing how they figure it out and how we can best use it to improve our trips.

Because number of riders is the same, IF FP numbers will icrease, people they toss through FP line are the same people who would stand in SB otherwise.
So it does not matter if your portion of the line(SB) will look short(er), because your wait time is not based on number on people in SB but total number. It may feel to you that your side of the line moves slower even so it looks shorter at the same time, unlike before, BUT your wait time is the same. You said you will not enter line longer then 20 or 30 min, right? You and nobody here ever said they will not enter SB longer then "whatever your number" people? Am I right? And because your wait times will not change, all the longer, faster, slower and so on mean nothing.

 

[mom2rtk]

Because number of riders is the same, IF FP numbers will icrease, people they toss through FP line are the same people who would stand in SB otherwise.
So it does not matter if your portion of the line(SB) will look short(er), because your wait time is not based on number on people in SB but total number. It may feel to you that your side of the line moves slower even so it looks shorter at the same time, unlike before, BUT your wait time is the same. You said you will not enter line longer then 20 or 30 min, right? You and nobody here ever said they will not enter SB longer then "whatever your number" people? Am I right? And because your wait times will not change, all the longer, faster, slower and so on mean nothing.

Then the "losers" are the people who now must opt not to ride something they enjoy (and paid park admission to ride) because the SB line is prohibtively long or moves way too slowly now because of increased volume in the FP line.

Mark my words. There WILL be a "loser" in this. Just remains to be seen who.

 

[White_Sox_Fan]

You are making one assumption.

I am making another.

Using what I already know, I foresee more, in total, FP's being distributed as part of the new system.

If they do NOT add FP's, there will simply not be enough FP available to make the new system practical.

There are just not enough "current" FP's distributed in a day to allow enough guests to fully participate
in a major "new" system roll-out, and one that will be heavily promoted.

I'm even anticipating FP's being added to attractions that now do not even offer FP's.

If the ride capacity is already determined (by the number of rides possible on a given attraction,)
where will those new FP "positions" come from?

If you believe that they will not add FP's to the system, that's fine.

We'll likely find out within the next several months.

I'm with you on this, it is the most logical conclusion. Without a large increase in the number of fastpasses available there is no way they can roll out FP+ in any large scale (like to their resort guest). This means increasing the amount of ride capacity dedicated to fastpass as well as adding fastpass to attractions which currently don't have it.

I was at WDW for 8 days last week and have to say that if FP's for TSM are available later in the day they must be handing out more of them because it seemed that there were was a constant stream of people at the FP machines when I was there. (Of course I didn't stand there all day so I can't say with certainty that this is the case for the whole day). We went on Wed during AM EMH. We got a slow start and didn't get to the park until about 8:10. It wasn't until about 8:35 that we got to TSM (after long lines at the bag check and turnstiles) and the posted wait time was up to 80 minutes with FP's at 10:50. I felt sorry for the poor people that couldn't get in for EMH.

Overall we used FP less than before. The enforcement has devalued getting FP's early in the AM and we always head out mid afternoon so there was no point in getting one for those times. We were also there for 8 days so we had plenty of time to come back and hit rides later.

The closing of Test Track has made getting to Soarin' first thing in the morning a must. Lines expand quickly and FP's go fast. I actually saw a posted wait time of 180 minutes last Friday (thankfully I wasn't there that day).

BTW TP's Lines will work in a plain web browser for those without androids or iphones. I had both lines and Disney's Mobile Magic on my phone and will say they were not always accurate and the data service in the parks was HORRIBLE. I have Sprint, my daughter has AT&T, and while AT&T was better there were a lot of times that we could not get any data on our devices. EPCOT by far was the worst park for it. I don't know if it is a bandwidth issue or what the problem was, signal strength was good but data was not.

 

[KellyNY]

I did not say it was "wrong". I said it would clearly change the current system of first-come first-serve in favor of "heads in beds". In my worldview, FCFS is about as equitable as it gets.

So in other words, it is not fair, right?

 

[KellyNY]

Then the "losers" are the people who now must opt not to ride something they enjoy (and paid park admission to ride) because the SB line is prohibtively long or moves way too slowly now because of increased volume in the FP line.

Mark my words. There WILL be a "loser" in this. Just remains to be seen who.

Why not to ride if your wait time is the same?

 

[mom2rtk]

Why not to ride if your wait time is the same?

The same as what?

 

[mom2rtk]

So in other words, it is not fair, right?

I agree first come,first serve is as fair as it gets.

 

[KellyNY]

The same as what?

Are you saying that you did not read any of comments(not only mine) on last few pages and just blindly reply?..

 

[UNCFanatik]

I'm with you on this, it is the most logical conclusion. Without a large increase in the number of fastpasses available there is no way they can roll out FP+ in any large scale (like to their resort guest). This means increasing the amount of ride capacity dedicated to fastpass as well as adding fastpass to attractions which currently don't have it.

I was at WDW for 8 days last week and have to say that if FP's for TSM are available later in the day they must be handing out more of them because it seemed that there were was a constant stream of people at the FP machines when I was there. (Of course I didn't stand there all day so I can't say with certainty that this is the case for the whole day). We went on Wed during AM EMH. We got a slow start and didn't get to the park until about 8:10. It wasn't until about 8:35 that we got to TSM (after long lines at the bag check and turnstiles) and the posted wait time was up to 80 minutes with FP's at 10:50. I felt sorry for the poor people that couldn't get in for EMH.

Overall we used FP less than before. The enforcement has devalued getting FP's early in the AM and we always head out mid afternoon so there was no point in getting one for those times. We were also there for 8 days so we had plenty of time to come back and hit rides later.

The closing of Test Track has made getting to Soarin' first thing in the morning a must. Lines expand quickly and FP's go fast. I actually saw a posted wait time of 180 minutes last Friday (thankfully I wasn't there that day).

BTW TP's Lines will work in a plain web browser for those without androids or iphones. I had both lines and Disney's Mobile Magic on my phone and will say they were not always accurate and the data service in the parks was HORRIBLE. I have Sprint, my daughter has AT&T, and while AT&T was better there were a lot of times that we could not get any data on our devices. EPCOT by far was the worst park for it. I don't know if it is a bandwidth issue or what the problem was, signal strength was good but data was not.

With all this talk about ride capacity, can the capacity on the popular rides be increased? Are they all running currently at their maximum capacity? For instance, can more ride vehicles be added to TSMM?

Does anyone know?

 

[kaytieeldr]

I agree first come,first serve is as fair as it gets.

Then why not eliminate FastPass altogether? Put everyone back on the 100% even playing field that worked for the first 40+ years Disneyland operated without it? Ditto for Magic Kingdom's 27 or so FastPass-free years, Epcot's 17 or so...?

 

[Cafeen]

I am sure I would recognize the answer, Infact second part of my post was why it does not make sense to me.

Wait times would be exactly the same for anyone approaching SB as before. Right now the game starts at rope drop, with NextGen game will start 180 days mark, so those 100 people ahead of you in virtual line, just got there before you and therefore wait times will not change. That is all difference.

While I'm dropping back a bit for this response, it certainly sounds similar to an argument from the earlier FP "discussions" .

With all this talk about ride capacity, can the capacity on the popular rides be increased? Are they all running currently at their maximum capacity? For instance, can more ride vehicles be added to TSMM?

Does anyone know?

Some of them, yes. EE and any of the coasters can vary (although it takes time to add new trains to the circuit) up to a point. Omnimovers (HM, SSE, etc) are static, as all the cars form a continuous circut around the track. Other rides (PP, TSM, etc) I'm not positive, but I believe they have the ability to add and remove cars. Although, I'm sure that they both typically ride at full capacity anyway.

 

[mom2rtk]

Then why not eliminate FastPass altogether? Put everyone back on the 100% even playing field that worked for the first 40+ years Disneyland operated without it? Ditto for Magic Kingdom's 27 or so FastPass-free years, Epcot's 17 or so...?

I tried that at DCA with TSMM since it's not of FP. 60 minutes. All day. Never changed.

I'll take FP thank you. I've been to DHS many times and with the help of FP never waited more than 10-15 minutes.

I just hope that doesn't change. My fear is that under the new system I'll have to give up riding it since I won't wait over 30 minutes for it. That 60 minute line at DCA was a one and done. Not worth it.