Not Everyone Is on the Same Boat (EMH)

[Kimberly9701]

Sorry, but I don't think the John Riggins approach is going to win the debate.



Musical chairs. The less availability open to the general public as part of the upcharge event, the fewer seats there will be for the general public. Therefore, there is a higher chance of not being able to find a seat if you don't purchase the upsell. It seems obvious to me, as does the larger point that the recent explosion of upcharges does impact guests who choose not to pay for them.

For sake of argument let's pick a number-

We'll go with 100.

If 100 people purchase a dining combo.
Or-
100 people now do not have the option, yet are still attending.

Are there now 100 more seats available?

One section of seats is now available to all.
But-- do you still need to arrive an hour early to snag a good seat? Because those 100 opened up to everyone?
How exactly does it change your plans for arrival and getting a "good" seat?

 

[Kimberly9701]

..or is it just the principle that you want everyone to wait. Regardless of if it changes your plans or not.

 

[mom2rtk]

..or is it just the principle that you want everyone to wait. Regardless of if it changes your plans or not.

Of course not. I'd like to think enough people have commented here with the same concern that you might at least consider it.

 

[Mikie]

For sake of argument let's pick a number-

We'll go with 100.

If 100 people purchase a dining combo.
Or-
100 people now do not have the option, yet are still attending.

Are there now 100 more seats available?

One section of seats is now available to all.
But-- do you still need to arrive an hour early to snag a good seat? Because those 100 opened up to everyone?
How exactly does it change your plans for arrival and getting a "good" seat?

I've only seen Fantasmic once, with a dining package. I don't have an opinion as to whether it's "good" or "bad", but here's how my reserved seat would affect Grimley's experience:
The dining reserved section are the best seats in the center section of the arena. Grimley cannot sit there no matter what time he arrives. He can get there early to secure *a* seat, but he cannot sit in my area, unless so few diners bought the package that empty seats remain right before the show.
If there were no dining package, he could arrive early and choose from *any* seat, including the best ones.
It's my understanding that the F! dining pkg area used to be off to the side. The package afforded you the convenience of a guaranteed seat with less waiting, but not he *best* seats, available only by arriving earlier and waiting.
The change took the better seating, previously available free to all, and gave it to me because I paid, denying it to Grimley if he didn't.

 

[mom2rtk]

I've only seen Fantasmic once, with a dining package. I don't have an opinion as to whether it's "good" or "bad", but here's how my reserved seat would affect Grimley's experience:
The dining reserved section are the best seats in the center section of the arena. Grimley cannot sit there no matter what time he arrives. He can get there early to secure *a* seat, but he cannot sit in my area, unless so few diners bought the package that empty seats remain right before the show.
If there were no dining package, he could arrive early and choose from *any* seat, including the best ones.
It's my understanding that the F! dining pkg area used to be off to the side. The package afforded you the convenience of a guaranteed seat with less waiting, but not he *best* seats, available only by arriving earlier and waiting.
The change took the better seating, previously available free to all, and gave it to me because I paid, denying it to Grimley if he didn't.

Great summary!

 

[Kimberly9701]

I've only seen Fantasmic once, with a dining package. I don't have an opinion as to whether it's "good" or "bad", but here's how my reserved seat would affect Grimley's experience:
The dining reserved section are the best seats in the center section of the arena. Grimley cannot sit there no matter what time he arrives. He can get there early to secure *a* seat, but he cannot sit in my area, unless so few diners bought the package that empty seats remain right before the show.
If there were no dining package, he could arrive early and choose from *any* seat, including the best ones.
It's my understanding that the F! dining pkg area used to be off to the side. The package afforded you the convenience of a guaranteed seat with less waiting, but not he *best* seats, available only by arriving earlier and waiting.
The change took the better seating, previously available free to all, and gave it to me because I paid, denying it to Grimley if he didn't.

But right next to that center section is 2 more sections, basically center as well. Available to all. Some of which are actually "better" seats if you arrive early and get towards the front.
Either way you have to arrive early...and if willing to then you still get great seats. Again, even better than some who chose the dining package. Or again, as I said earlier, you could opt not to get the package and be sitting directly across the aisle from someone who has. You aren't forced in the back.

Either way, it does not impact arrival time if you desire a 'front and center' seat. Which does not change your plans. Only now has a negative impact on those who wanted the dining package because it actually did help with their plans.

 

[mom2rtk]

But right next to that center section is 2 more sections, basically center as well. Available to all. Some of which are actually "better" seats if you arrive early and get towards the front.
Either way you have to arrive early...and if willing to then you still get great seats. Again, even better than some who chose the dining package. Or again, as I said earlier, you could opt not to get the package and be sitting directly across the aisle from someone who has. You aren't forced in the back.

Either way, it does not impact arrival time if you desire a 'front and center' seat. Which does not change your plans. Only now has a negative impact on those who wanted the dining package because it actually did help with their plans.

But I still can't sit front and center.

 

[Kimberly9701]

Of course not. I'd like to think enough people have commented here with the same concern that you might at least consider it.

If it is not principle then what is it? Because I have given examples of how it wouldn't change your plans one bit if you desire a good seat.

It will change my ability, and other's ability, to also be able to get a decent seat. That's the only thing it will change. More people waiting early, more people 'saving seats' regardless of if saving for 10 minutes while someone else in the party goes for food and drink, or if the rest of the party is on another attraction.

No one can honestly say that they haven't sat for an hour and not either seen someone go to collect food/drinks/use restroom, or that they themselves didn't do it.

 

[Kimberly9701]

But I still can't sit front and center.

Yes, that small aisle way makes a humongous difference in viewing satisfaction. All 3 feet of it.

 

[Mikie]

Yes, that small aisle way makes a humongous difference in viewing satisfaction. All 3 feet of it.

You have said you value the convenience at a price and no one is belittling you for that choice. Why is it necessary to criticize others for the element of choice/view that matters to them? If it makes no difference at all, why was the dining pkg area moved from the section "3 feet away" to the center section?

 

[Kimberly9701]

You have said you value the convenience at a price and no one is belittling you for that choice. Why is it necessary to criticize others for the element of choice/view that matters to them? If it makes no difference at all, why was the dining pkg area moved from the section "3 feet away" to the center section?

I'm not belittling anyone. I'm having a discussion stating reasons of why the dining package is of value to some.
And that it really does not impact a person who does not choose the up charge. Maybe one person will understand why it is valuable and then not be bothered by it.

Disney knows that there are people who will pay for convenience, especially those traveling alone with children, why not let us spend our own money for that bit of convenience?

If the 'reserved' section was all front seats then maybe that would be different. But as it stands now, it is one section. And you can get just as good of a seat if you arrive early and get one.

 

[SaintsManiac]

We paid for the H&V Christmas dinner with F! package and all we got was wet and had to wait a looooooooooong time to exit. We won't be doing that again.

 

[jade1]

Yea ROL doesn't count IMO, Illuminations and Wishes not effected either. So it's just Fantasmic really.

Should the dining package have the center at Fantasmic? Some would say so, some not. And it is offered to everyone to purchase/reserve.

I will say we have gotten center walking in since it is not always full, but won't move there from the other sections. Just not that much better IMO.

However adding Star Wars Fireworks and giving guests time to see both, is a far better perk than letting 10% of the guests wait an hour and a half for the dead center of Fantasmic, at least IMO.

90% will never be dead center for a Fantasmic performance.

Choices.

Pick

1) wait around an hour and a half for the center of Fantasmic, and they never offer Star Wars Fireworks. The Previous offering.

2) Ability to purchase Fantasmic Dinner Package for the center, or wait around for the center, or sit next to the center and also enjoy Star Wars Fireworks after. The current offering.

I choose #2

 

[jade1]

ROL is an even easier choice.

1) No ROL The previous offering.

2) ROL Dining package for dead center, wait around for dead center, sit near dead center, sit away from dead center, stand on the path. The upcoming offering.

I pick #2 again.

 

[Mikie]

ROL is an even easier choice.

1) No ROL The previous offering.

2) ROL Dining package for dead center, wait around for dead center, sit near dead center, sit away from dead center, stand on the path. The upcoming offering.

I pick #2 again.

Interesting points. Not sure whether the offerings were caused by dining packages ("let's make a show that will be paid for, at least in part, by getting people to pay for dining packages") or related tangentially ("let's offer dining packages because we can! Then, "hey it worked, let's use some of that money to create a new show without reducing profits") or not at all (”let's offer a new nighttime show to increase overall capacity and hours at parks other than MK")
It's certainly possible the dining packages at least subsidize the specific show. Never thought of it that way because of the way dining and parks operations are separated.

 

[ArwenMarie]

I thought RoL was being developed to make DAK into a full-day park and to ease the crowding in the other parks, including MK. Ditto for the other nighttime attractions they are adding there.

 

[jade1]

I thought RoL was being developed to make DAK into a full-day park and to ease the crowding in the other parks, including MK. Ditto for the other nighttime attractions they are adding there.

Full day means attracting guests for evening dining and drinks as well.

What better way than an amazing night show, and available dining package with reserved great seating for it.

 

[jade1]

Interesting points. Not sure whether the offerings were caused by dining packages ("let's make a show that will be paid for, at least in part, by getting people to pay for dining packages") or related tangentially ("let's offer dining packages because we can! Then, "hey it worked, let's use some of that money to create a new show without reducing profits") or not at all (”let's offer a new nighttime show to increase overall capacity and hours at parks other than MK")
It's certainly possible the dining packages at least subsidize the specific show. Never thought of it that way because of the way dining and parks operations are separated.

And a ROL dining package alone, will be enough to bring some % of guests into AK at night.

There will be some pretty good dining IMO, may as well try some out.

Either way, that dining package will bring all kinds of additional revenue to AK.

I mean it sounds like a nightmare to get into ROL will be on the horizon. You can be sure the ease of dining/drinks and a great reserved seat will be utilized by many.

Our group will be one for sure, at least until we have tried enough dining there, and the show wears off a bit.

 

[Sammie]

Honestly I don't care and don't give it a thought and to me if one does it is called envy. There have always been things some could afford and others couldn't for as long as things were being bartered or sold.

 

[Mikie]

And a ROL dining package alone, will be enough to bring some % of guests into AK at night.

There will be some pretty good dining IMO, may as well try some out.

Either way, that dining package will bring all kinds of additional revenue to AK.

Do you think the dining package will bring someone to AK who otherwise wouldn't have come for RoL and separately, whatever restaurants unaffiliated with the show? I have always thought of dining package as one dining option among several. Gotta eat anyway, want to see the show, ok reserved area is enough to make me choose a particular restaurant over another. Never thought about whether someone may come to DHS who wasn't already going there just because they could do it as a package. I'm talking about RoL long term here - I think lots of people will do things differently in the short term right when an attraction is new because it is a frenzy for a while. Do you suppose there's a market of folks who wouldn't otherwise go to AK or RoL but will go only if it's a dining package?