Not educating child

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I don't know about other states, but the CPS in NY are so overwhelmed with cases of severe abuse that require investigating (beatings; sexual abuse; starving; etc.) the last thing they need is a call to investigate a child not going to school.. While they're at the home investigating your former nanny, some other child could be in the position of being repeatedly sexually abused or beaten to death.. Every year additional CPS workers are being laid off - while the number of calls for severe abuse is rising.. To call about a teen not going to school is mind boggling to me..

Your avenue of intervention - if you truly believe this is happening as you are stating - should have been the state board of education..

This is not the type of neglect that should be tossed in the laps of the already overworked CPS employees who are trying to save childrens lives or remove them from a home where they are being sexually abused and/or are going without food..

I suppose they're mandated to investigate it now (they would be in NY - within 48 hours) and I find that very upsetting.. They will be checking on your former nanny while another child is in extreme danger - and could possibly die..

Bad call - in my opinion..

I will have to disagree.

If anything she should have called the county--but if they felt the child was neglected, then they made the right call. CPS isn't there just for the most extreme cases of neglect.

 

[Coconut36]

How does it "seem to you" that anyone was told to MYOB? Because you are assuming that is what the woman meant??

Because the OP stated in the first post they told the Mom what she should do, suggested things..etc and were told to "butt out". That is pretty clear to me the mother told them to get out of her business.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

COMPLETELY and TOTALLY seriously. And again, I'm somebody who gives thinks most "free-range" parenting styles are OK.

But not educating your 13-year-old child because you want a babysitter? I can't believe anyone thinks this is ok! All lazy mom has to do is sign up for some sort of online curriculum.

 

[luvmy3]

Or is this simply a vendetta against her for some reason we are not being told?

That is my impression just by what the OP says in his OP.
They decided to fie her for what deciding to homeschool her dd, or asking if the dd could finish up watching the kids? (I don't see an issue with a 13 year old babysitter) so the OP clearly has an issue with the decisions this woman is making for her dd and making it personal.


ETA just saw you addressed my previous post. Makes more sense now, but I still think you overstepped by calling CPS.

We had utilized the mom as a nanny over the summer, but let her go when she told us that she would not be putting her daughter in school again. In fact, she wanted to be able to leave her nanny responsibilities in the early afternoon, and have her daughter finish up watching our kids each day. We told her that we couldn't do that, didn't feel that what she was doing to her child was right, and that we'd need to find a new nanny.

We recently found out from the daughter that no home schooling has taken place this fall, and that she is primarily responsible for taking care of her younger brother. My wife has had multiple discussions with the mother in the past, trying to advocate for the daughter, to no use. We have been essentially told to "butt out".

After a great deal of thought and prayer, my wife contacted Child Protective Services and filed a complaint. Do you think we overstepped our bounds?

 

[C.Ann]

So should people not report anything because it might not be severe enough? Besides you just said they are mandated to show up within 48 hours. The case of severe abuse they would also be mandated to show up in 48 hours. How much time they spend investigating and which one they get to in 12 and which one ins 47 hours is up to them.

No....She said a different avenue should have been taken.

Thank you for actually reading what I wrote..

I don't get why so many people thing not allowing your child to get an education is ok??

I don't think anyone said it was okay for the child to not get an education - just that it's not worthy of a call to CPS when there are other avenues available that are directly related to the educational aspect..

 

[RitaE]

COMPLETELY and TOTALLY seriously. And again, I'm somebody who gives things most "free-range" parenting styles are OK.

But not educating your 13-year-old child because you want a babysitter? I can't believe anyone thinks this is ok! All lazy mom has to do is sign up for some sort of online curriculum.

I don't think it is so much that anybody thinks it is okay, it is just that CPS - at least here and from what I can tell about Nebraska there too - has no authority to do anything about it.

So, a call to CPS isn't going to do a thing. If anybody was interested in solving this they'd have to start by lobbying their State legislature to monitor and regulate home school curriculum. That is a whole new can of worms and I don't know that it would solve much. I mean, we have some Chicago Public Schools (which our Secretary of Education used to run) that only have about 10 to 20% of their students meeting minimum education standards. Is this 13 year old any worse off than those students? If educational neglect is a crime, maybe we should start calling CPS on some of our schools too.

 

[Coconut36]

COMPLETELY and TOTALLY seriously. And again, I'm somebody who gives thinks most "free-range" parenting styles are OK.

But not educating your 13-year-old child because you want a babysitter? I can't believe anyone thinks this is ok! All lazy mom has to do is sign up for some sort of online curriculum.

What I am saying is that I think people need to be very careful before they call CPS for one thing and people need to not "backseat parent" others children and decide what they have to do or not do.

Would this be a choice I would make for my child? Not at all..not OK with me..but I don't parent someone else child and I have a really really hard time believing this woman flat out said "I am lazy and I am keeping my kid out of school to watch my younger kid and I refuse to educate her at all".

 

[Coconut36]

I don't think it is so much that anybody thinks it is okay, it is just that CPS - at least here and from what I can tell about Nebraska there too - has no authority to do anything about it.

So, a call to CPS isn't going to do a thing. If anybody was interested in solving this they'd have to start by lobbying their State legislature to monitor and regulate home school curriculum. That is a whole new can of worms and I don't know that it would solve much. I mean, we have some Chicago Public Schools (which our Secretary of Education used to run) that only have about 10 to 20% of their students meeting minimum education standards. Is this 13 year old any worse off than those students? If educational neglect is a crime, maybe we should start calling CPS on some of our schools too.

 

[tlbwriter]

Post partum depression is not an excuse. If that is the case, she needs help that a 13 year old child cannot provide. She needs to find ADULT care for the baby and go to the doctor.

And if the woman truly did have post partum depression, involving the authorities could save her life, and the lives of her children.

Or is this simply a vendetta against her for some reason we are not being told?

What is your basis for this accusation?

 

[DopeyDame]

Post partum depression is not an excuse. If that is the case, she needs help that a 13 year old child cannot provide. She needs to find ADULT care for the baby and go to the doctor.

Do you really think its fair for this child to end up MAYBE being able to pass a bare minimum exam and playing "catch up" later in her education?

Not an excuse for what? Of course someone with depression needs adult care and to go to the doctor - do you know that's not happening? (Obviously, you don't just as I don't know if she has depression or not.) As for playing catchup - nope, I wouldn't have ANY concern about a kid missing a few months of structured schooling and catching up on that later. In fact, if finances permit it, we're planning on doing that with our son when he's older so we can do some extensive traveling.

My point wasn't that this particular child will or will not meet high school minimums (how in the world would I know what this kid is capable of), but that it's not the position of one parent to define what's necessary for another kid's education.

 

[Nancy for Disney]

I don't know about other states, but the CPS in NY are so overwhelmed with cases of severe abuse that require investigating (beatings; sexual abuse; starving; etc.) the last thing they need is a call to investigate a child not going to school.. While they're at the home investigating your former nanny, some other child could be in the position of being repeatedly sexually abused or beaten to death.. Every year additional CPS workers are being laid off - while the number of calls for severe abuse is rising.. To call about a teen not going to school is mind boggling to me..

Your avenue of intervention - if you truly believe this is happening as you are stating - should have been the state board of education..

This is not the type of neglect that should be tossed in the laps of the already overworked CPS employees who are trying to save childrens lives or remove them from a home where they are being sexually abused and/or are going without food..

I suppose they're mandated to investigate it now (they would be in NY - within 48 hours) and I find that very upsetting.. They will be checking on your former nanny while another child is in extreme danger - and could possibly die..

Bad call - in my opinion..

I disagree. All states handle things different. In my state no other agency steps in except for Dept of Social Services if a child is not being educated by homeschooling. Our Dept of Education would just refer someone with this complaint back to DSS. I will admit is DSS’s lowest priority. All other cases they try to have contact in 1 day but when education is the only issue they can take up to 3. DSS does not step in if the education is not up to someone else’s standards but does step in when there is no homeschooling taking place. This seems to be the case. It takes a village to raise a child and I agree that the OP did the right thing by reporting. I don't think that they took anything away from a child in need as I said before, at least in our state, they try to prioritize.

We also have very limited standards when it comes to homeschooling. Basically they would go into the home and all the parent needs to do is say "Yeah, I am homeschooling" and the children's service worker says "Thank you, have a nice day". Will some people panic and say "Gee, someone called CPS on me I better get my crap together!"? We can only hope. It is a shame but this is also the good ol' USA and there is a fine line between people having their right to make their own decisions vs. government involvement. There is no easy answer. I say when in doubt report and let the state handle it the way their laws require.

 

[Alyssa88]

I am not sure if I would report this. . .or who I would report it to. That said, I find this a form of neglect, and would have a really hard time sitting back and doing nothing.

Here is what i am not understanding about this thread- regardless of whether the OP heard this from both the mother and daughter, why wouldn't the daughter's word be enough? Sure, she might be lying, but what if she isn't and something could be done. Really, I am sure most parents would not admit to educational neglect. Most likely this will not be investigated, but what if CPS would investigate educational neglect, would you be more likely to report it then?
What if the child claimed to be physically abused? I am sure most people would act immediately, even thought the child could be lying about that as well.

Again, I have no idea what I would do. These are just some questions tha came up from reading some comments.

 

[DopeyDame]

I mean, we have some Chicago Public Schools (which our Secretary of Education used to run) that only have about 10 to 20% of their students meeting minimum education standards. Is this 13 year old any worse off than those students? If educational neglect is a crime, maybe we should start calling CPS on some of our schools too.

 

[horseshowmom]

How about we take the OP at his word and assume he know a bit more about the situation than we do?

The mom SAID she wants the child to keep her younger sibling. She SAID she is not educating the child. That is neglect.

If she was stupid enough to say that and not clearly let someone understand she was being sarcastic--that would be her problem. The kid comes first.

I don't get why so many people thing not allowing your child to get an education is ok??

It always interests me to see how people start assuming points not addressed in posts. Maybe they're right, maybe they're not, but unless I have a reason to do otherwise, I take the poster at face value.

I homeschooled and am a firm believer in a parent's right to do so, but it's not right that the mother is using her child as labor rather than educating her. I'm not sure what I would have done, but I can certainly understand why the OP chose to contact CPS.

I know someone who married someone in our extended family (don't see them often or know them well) who had something similar happen. She said that her mother pulled her and her sister out of school under the premise of homeschooling when in fact she wanted them out to help her clean houses (which is how she made a living). The girl said they got very little education after leaving school. As an adult, she wanted to become a RN but wasn't able to make it through the program. She was able to get through the LPN program though (through hard work).

 

[Pigeon]

What I am saying is that I think people need to be very careful before they call CPS for one thing and people need to not "backseat parent" others children and decide what they have to do or not do.

I agree completely. CPS is not always a benign insitution. A cursory newspaper search will turn up countless cases of people having their children removed from them over nothing, sometimes for a very long time. CPS workers have very large caseloads and there is often high turnover and inadequate training. A call to CPS is nothing to take lightly.

 

[holycow]

No you didn't over step your bounds! That child needs an advocate the only problem is the mom will probably make her daughter lie and nothing will be done.



I can not believe you people who think that one child doesn't matter because of other case loads! What crock! This child deserves an education and not to be slave labor for her mom.

 

[DopeyDame]

And if the woman truly did have post partum depression, involving the authorities could save her life, and the lives of her children.



?

You have a far different understanding of CPS than I do. If she is suffering from PPD and it hasn't been picked up on by her doctors (who should be very much attuned to it) and her family, i have a hard time believing an overworked CPS agent is going to recognize it, diagnose it, and ensure she's treated appropriately. If I thought she had PPD, I'd probably talk to her family.

 

[Feralpeg]

OP, we can only do what we feel is right. You care for the well being of that little girl. You did what you thought was right. Stop second guessing yourself and looking for others to validate your decision. It's done. Let's just hope that the outcome makes the child's life better.

 

[luvmy3]

I am not sure if I would report this. . .or who I would report it to. That said, I find this a form of neglect, and would have a really hard time sitting back and doing nothing.

Here is what i am not understanding about this thread- regardless of whether the OP heard this from both the mother and daughter, why wouldn't the daughter's word be enough? Sure, she might be lying, but what if she isn't and something could be done. Really, I am sure most parents would not admit to educational neglect. Most likely this will not be investigated, but what if CPS would investigate educational neglect, would you be more likely to report it then?
What if the child claimed to be physically abused? I am sure most people would act immediately, even thought the child could be lying about that as well.

Again, I have no idea what I would do. These are just some questions tha came up from reading some comments.

First one would have to have a clear definition of educational neglect. To me that means a 13 year old not being able to read, write, do basic math problems etc. Are we to judge this "neglect" on he/she not learning exactly what her peers in public school are learning?

 

[Coconut36]

I am not sure if I would report this. . .or who I would report it to. That said, I find this a form of neglect, and would have a really hard time sitting back and doing nothing.

Here is what i am not understanding about this thread- regardless of whether the OP heard this from both the mother and daughter, why wouldn't the daughter's word be enough? Sure, she might be lying, but what if she isn't and something could be done. Really, I am sure most parents would not admit to educational neglect. Most likely this will not be investigated, but what if CPS would investigate educational neglect, would you be more likely to report it then?
What if the child claimed to be physically abused? I am sure most people would act immediately, even thought the child could be lying about that as well.

Again, I have no idea what I would do. These are just some questions tha came up from reading some comments.

Physical/sexual abuse claims are not comparable here or relevant. I don't view them on par with this situation in the slightest.

As I stated..CPS is extremely serious business IMO and you better be 1000% certain what is going on before you send them after a parent(s). A 13-14 year old's word on what goes on at home regarding schooling and watching a younger sibling is simply not enough IMO to warrant a call to CPS based on what she said. Isn't it possible she lied or exaggerated? Isn't it possible she could be pissed at Mom for watching the brother 1 day or certain afternoons and wanted to complain? Again..I view CPS to be pretty serious and if some kid said "all I do all day is take care of my little brother" you bet I would be looking into things before calling in agencies over it.

What is your basis for this accusation?

Well the OP has fired this person, the OP has stated their "suggestions" for what this parent needed to do with her child's education was met with a "butt out"..the OP obviously feels they know what this parent needs to do regardless of being told to get out of their personal business..being rebuffed by someone could make someone angry..if she didn't comply it could easily lead to them being angry with her and going farther than they should regarding this.