Non-US Citizens: Does your country fear Bush?

[CEDmom]

Originally posted by AirForceRocks
I've heard this same sentiment before, and it seems ridiculous to me. Why would that make anyone uncomfortable? I mean really, there are only two sides in the war against terrorism - with terrorists or against terrorists. If there is another side, I'd really love for someone to tell me what it is...

AFR, I think the way a lot of people interpreted Bush's statement was that you either wholeheartedly go along with the US plan against terrorism or you will be viewed as an enemy of our country. There appeared to be no room for any friendly nation that agreed with fighting terrorism but just might not agree with our methods.

 

[Mskanga]

Originally posted by CEDmom
AFR, I think the way a lot of people interpreted Bush's statement was that you either wholeheartedly go along with the US plan against terrorism or you will be viewed as an enemy of our country. There appeared to be no room for any friendly nation that agreed with fighting terrorism but just might not agree with our methods.

BINGO!!

 

[damo]

Originally posted by AirForceRocks
I've heard this same sentiment before, and it seems ridiculous to me. Why would that make anyone uncomfortable? I mean really, there are only two sides in the war against terrorism - with terrorists or against terrorists. If there is another side, I'd really love for someone to tell me what it is...

From the Canadian viewpoint, we found this upsetting because we are fully supporting the war on terrorism and have lost many citizens in this war. We don't believe that Operation Iraqi Freedom is terrorist related and don't support it. It seems that the US government feels that if we don't support them in every decision that they make, then we are against them. This is not true.

And to clarify a few points made about anti-Americanism. Canadians aren't against the American people, but rather their leadership.

 

[faithinkarma]

Thanks damo, I was waiting for a Canadian to reply. I did not dare to speak out myself. After living in NY for almost a year, I am sure someone would deem me unqualified to speak for Canadians.

 

[Cruisin]

I think that damo has said it pretty well.

 

[AirForceRocks]

From the Canadian viewpoint, we found this upsetting because we are fully supporting the war on terrorism and have lost many citizens in this war. We don't believe that Operation Iraqi Freedom is terrorist related and don't support it.

That's kind of odd, seeing as the "with us or with the terrorists" statement was made soon after 9/11, and long before we were even focusing on the war in Iraq...

As for countries that didn't support the war in Iraq, it never bothered me that they didn't support us, but rather that they tried to stop us. If countries don't want to help, fine, but get out of the way and don't try to stop us.

Funny how Canada didn't want to help with the war, but they sure didn't waste any time lining up to ask to get in on the rebuilding...

 

[Nutsy]

think you may be mistaken about this. One of the first things I noticed when I moved here was the shortage of international news. For the most part, unless an American is involved in a news story that happens outside the US, it gets little if any coverage.

I don't mean to offend, it is just the way it is. And my point is that the rest of the world knows much more about Americans than Americans know about them.

And I agree with damo that president Bush is percieved as dangerous.


quote:

Very true. From people I talk to who live in the US they know very little of the outside world. Whereas America is in the news everywhere, so we non-americans know lots more about what goes on in & around America & what antics Bush is up to, than any American would ever know about any non-american country.

We Aussies do not fear Bush. Rather we feel that our own PM (Priime Minister) is trying to buy his freinds buy going along with any little whim Bush may have.

Sorry guys. I just hate politics & I don't care who the Politican is, I doubt any of them could lie straight in bed.

 

[damo]

Originally posted by AirForceRocks
That's kind of odd, seeing as the "with us or with the terrorists" statement was made soon after 9/11, and long before we were even focusing on the war in Iraq...

As for countries that didn't support the war in Iraq, it never bothered me that they didn't support us, but rather that they tried to stop us. If countries don't want to help, fine, but get out of the way and don't try to stop us.

Funny how Canada didn't want to help with the war, but they sure didn't waste any time lining up to ask to get in on the rebuilding...

That one statement may have been made soon after 9/11 but the sentiment was continued more recently with President Bush cancelling visits with Prime Minister Chretien and substituting a visit from the Australian Prime Minister instead. Paul Cellucci also echoed those sentiments in Toronto last March.

It's also funny how Canada didn't want to help with the war but we sure didn't waste any time lining up to offer $300,000,000 in financial aid for the rebuilding of Iraq.

 

[ThreeCircles]

Originally posted by damo
Canadians aren't against the American people, but rather their leadership.

And a large portion (if not the majority) of the American people agree with you on this!!!

 

[KarenC]

My daughter traveled to Paris on the day we began the war in Iraq. She was on an exchange program and was visiting the student who'd stayed with us in Oct. 2002. When she arrived at the high school in suburban Paris, she attended a social studies class that devoted the session to current events, i.e. the war. My daughter felt like she had to defend all Americans to this group of high school students, while speaking French. She held her own.

Anyway, she learned that the French were not particularly intimidated by President Bush but, these students at least, viewed our actions as 1. about oil and 2. about finishing up the current President's father's business.

While if I had the opportunity to pick the current events going on when she made that trip I would not have wanted her to go while we were at war. However, I think she learned a lot about our similarities and differences on that trip.

 

[beattyfamily]

No, you are right, this isn't another President-Bush bashing thread...

 

[BedKnobbery2]

Originally posted by beattyfamily
No, you are right, not another President-Bush hate thread...

beattyfamily, please tell me: what, in my original post, made this a hate thread? You keep making this statement with the rolly eyes smiley, but I really don't get it; I stated my opinion about your original statement about other countries fearing Bush on that other thread, and that got me thinking about the issue. I wanted to see if I could get some input from people other than Americans regarding this issue, and tried to do so in the most non-inflammatory way possible. I simply asked the question, and waited for answers. I can't control how other people respond. Please clarify your statement. Thanks.

 

[BedKnobbery2]

Thanks to everyone who responded to this thread; its been an interesting read, for sure. I cut and pasted my original post to an other (non-political) board where I know there are a lot of regular posters who are from other countries. I was thrilled that many posted thoughtful responses, although there were a few who posted just negative one-liners. I've cut and pasted the responses here, minus the ones that just insulted Bush with the one-liners. Interestingly, there were none that supported him. (And, as I stated, this particularly BB is about as non-political as you can get; I was a little apprehensive about posting my query there, but so far I haven't gotten slammed for going way OT. Whew.) My apologies for the length of this post, in advance. Also, I put different countries in different colors, just to make it easier to see what came from where. The colors themselves have no meaning.

From Australia:

ok my AU 2cents ( which is about US 1.6 cents on a good day )

Dubya is a frequent topic of conversation between my friends and I. and I must say, that, yes, in a way, i do fear him, but not in a way that positivly reflects on america.

At the rate which he has america consuming its resorces any moment now hes going to have to find an excuse to invade a country somewhere to rehash the massive expendature. which will in its course cost more money, so another enemy will be singled out.

to tell the truth, and please dont take offence, because i dont mean to direct any. but with bush ruling america, i have a very low opinion of the states as a whole.

the other problem is, despite being billions of dollars in debt, hes still got the power to force all the other countries into doing sh** for him. and if we dont, 'oops there goes the free trade agreement'. so basicaly, if little johnny howard decided he doesnt want to help in bushs next sautey into a foreign country. my AU 2 cents will be worth considerably less than US 1.6

i wory for poor little australia and its richest uranium deposits in the world... if india or indonesia doesnt get the sh**s and invade, US will end up anexing us.

but thats neither here nor there, bush is an incompetant warmonger, and does your country no justice in the eyes of the world.

and btw, american politics is of intrests to us foreginers, simply because when ameirca goes down were all f***ed.


also from AU:

Gotta agree with ***** on his comments, especially as a fellow Australian. I reckon our PM should be renamed "Ankles", 'coz he's so far up Dubya's a** that's all you can see now....

As a person of left wing political views, I look for alternatives to the overwhelmingly conservative views foisted upon us by mainstream media. Some of the stuff I have heard recently has led me to wonder if 9/11 would have ever happened if Clinton had been allowed to stay in power.

US foreign policy of "constructive engagement" (as practiced during Clinton's reign) with potential enemies such as North Korea took an absolute U-turn when Bush stumbled into power. Apparently Bush couldn't get his brain around the idea that getting your enemies to the negotiating table by offering the occasional carrot is a far better solution than re-inventing the Cold war approach of threatening to bomb anyone who doesn't agree with your value system. The most redneck rightwinger in the Clinton regime would be labelled a left wing commie if he/she had joined the Bush camp.

Personally, I don't think Dubya has learnt a thing from 9/11 - that maybe the US govt (and unfortunately its citizens) got a taste of what the US has been doing both covertly and openly to other countries for many years.

By invading Iraq, all he has done is to pour fuel onto the fire of hatred that burns so strongly in the Islamic world.

Hopefully, Americans will fear him enough to do something about it in November, but I fear what will come after him.

From the UK:


From the UK perspective I will say:

Is he feared? Yes.
Is he respected? No.


The fear is based on being afraid that he will get us killed and that if we - and the rest of the world - don't follow what he says to do we will be forced out into the cold.

There were about 7 other respondants, including one from Spain and one from Germany, but they fell into the 'insulting one-liners' category, and I won't bother to post them here.

 

[Mskanga]

That's kind of odd, seeing as the "with us or with the terrorists" statement was made soon after 9/11, and long before we were even focusing on the war in Iraq...

I bet you anything that if the attacks on 9/11 had not happened , the administration would have allowed Saddam to continue to rule in Iraq, they would have had no excuse to go into Iraq and start a war.
The administration would have done absolutely nothing to help those countries who have had terrorism for decades , I guess the american leadership were not their friends back then?
As unfortunate as it is, the president used 9/11 as the perfect excuse to go finish a job that his father started and couldn't finish, otherwise how could he justify the war?
Terrorism has been happening for decades in other countries , the american administration only did something this time because they were the ones on the receiving end of the deal ( unfortunately ) and in the process they tried to get everyone on their side and the ones who didn't want to get involved were automatically placed on the " you are against us " pile.
And BTW, I don't see this as a President bashing thread, but if people don't agree with the leadership, they should be free to express what they feel, if you don't want to read it , then hit the back button and problem solved. This is a free country, isn't it?

 

[beattyfamily]

Originally posted by BedKnobbery2
beattyfamily, please tell me: what, in my original post, made this a hate thread? You keep making this statement with the rolly eyes smiley, but I really don't get it; I stated my opinion about your original statement about other countries fearing Bush on that other thread, and that got me thinking about the issue. I wanted to see if I could get some input from people other than Americans regarding this issue, and tried to do so in the most non-inflammatory way possible. I simply asked the question, and waited for answers. I can't control how other people respond. Please clarify your statement. Thanks.

Boy, taking my comment so personally? I was referring to the thread as a whole. I have a right to believe, by the tone set, that a Bush thread will quickly turn into a Bush-bashing thread; it's quite obvious and I was right! It quickly did! I think we've got enough going already in the Community Board (and the debate board too) unfortunately.

When I say I think other countries fear President Bush and will not/do not fear Kerry, I'm referring to the dictators and terrorists only. I absolutely want them to fear us and that it's a good thing for them to fear us and they won't with Kerry as President based on his record. Why don't you ask the terrorists and dictators how they feel? Ask North Korea...

I'm not replying anymore. You guys continue your fun. It's waste of my time to reply to these President Bush-bashing threads.

I'm sure you all (you all in general, not the OP) will continue thinking of other topics to post besides fearing Bush, 9/11 reference ads, gay marriage ban, Iraq, Osama, jobless rate, and whatever else might be a good means for attack, but next time can you at least do it in the Debate board where it belongs? Enjoy!

 

[BedKnobbery2]

Originally posted by beattyfamily
Boy, taking my comment so personally? I was referring to the thread as a whole. I have a right to believe, by the tone set, that a Bush thread will quickly turn into a Bush-bashing thread; it's quite obvious and I was right! It quickly did! I think we've got enough going already in the Community Board (and the debate board too) unfortunately.

Thanks for the explanation; I took it personally because it was a comment made twice on a thread I started, that was not intended to be what you'd insinuated.

Originally posted by beattyfamily
When I say I think other countries fear President Bush and will not/do not fear Kerry, I'm referring to the dictators and terrorists only. I absolutely want them to fear us and that it's a good thing for them to fear us and they won't with Kerry as President based on his record. Why don't you ask the terrorists and dictators how they feel? Ask North Korea... [/B]

I disagree; first of all, because the way the countries you mention feel about the USA has *absolutely nothing* to do with Bush. They hate/fear us as a nation, regardless of our leadership. And second, I disagree regarding Kerry because it is impossible to predict; nothing in Bush's record indicated that he would inspire the fear you attribute solely to him.

Originally posted by beattyfamily
I'm not replying anymore. You guys continue your fun. It's waste of my time to reply to these President Bush-bashing threads.


I'm sure you all (you all in general, not the OP) will continue thinking of other topics to post besides fearing Bush, 9/11 reference ads, gay marriage ban, Iraq, Osama, jobless rate, and whatever else might be a good means for attack, but next time can you at least do it in the Debate board where it belongs? Enjoy! [/B]

Actually, this thread did not belong on the Debate board, per the Debate board rules (posts there have to pose a debate; my original post did not, even though it appears to have turned into one). I imagine we'll see many more discussions here, since politics is part of a community and is a hot issue right now. And I will enjoy them, even if sometimes they get my ire up.

And (to keep this post on-topic ) I would still enjoy hearing the opinions of members of other nations on this topic. Thanks!