No more virtual items on Ebay

So far, ebay has removed a few hundred listings for VMK items in the last 24 hours, I suspect they will remove most of the rest of them shortly.
I don't think they were removed...I think they just ran the course and ended. There is still over 8 pages of VMK E-Bay items which is usually the norm. Also most of them are still "virtual" items no cards involved.
 
Are you saying that it's legal to sell a car that you parents bought for you? Even though the title has their name on it and they own it? So, cite me a case, a statute, a regulation that says doing this is legal, and I'll admit that you are right.

stop arguing a silly point that does not aply here please.
 
I don't think they were removed...I think they just ran the course and ended. There is still over 8 pages of VMK E-Bay items which is usually the norm. Also most of them are still "virtual" items no cards involved.


I would not have posted if they had not started removing my, and others, auctions.
 
just got a message back from them. The problem is not copyrighting, per se, but the DIGITAL DELIVERY
 

If digital delivery is the problem then that makes more sense. There are many scammer buyers on eBay just as there are scammer sellers. If you can not prove that the transaction took place they will usually deny that it did and demand a refund. As it stands with Pay-Pal if the seller can not offer a DC number to prove that the items was shipped and arrived in the place it was supposed to they will side with the buyer and refund the money. The only thing I can think to do would be to take many pictures of the transaction. However, will the buyer still be able to claim the the trade window was changed after the pic was taken. I would almost always use a third party to transfer any items bought or sold on eBay. Then you have to find a third party who can be trusted by both involved in the sale and that's another problem.

-Stacey
 
If digital delivery is the problem then that makes more sense. There are many scammer buyers on eBay just as there are scammer sellers. If you can not prove that the transaction took place they will usually deny that it did and demand a refund. As it stands with Pay-Pal if the seller can not offer a DC number to prove that the items was shipped and arrived in the place it was supposed to they will side with the buyer and refund the money. The only thing I can think to do would be to take many pictures of the transaction. However, will the buyer still be able to claim the the trade window was changed after the pic was taken. I would almost always use a third party to transfer any items bought or sold on eBay. Then you have to find a third party who can be trusted by both involved in the sale and that's another problem.

-Stacey

Incorrect - paypal does recognize Digital Delivery. If what you said is true, they would go out of business in a week. I have never lost a claim against me because I can always prove my case. Plus, if the auction states it is local pickup, international sales or digital delivery, then thats it. Paypal wont even consider the shipping as part of the claim.

As far as third party transfer, well, I can tell you right now, that any seller who participates in that type of trade is an idiot. You just lost any type of possible proof of delivery.

and lastly, your statement: "there are as many scam buyers as sellers" - well, I have done both and I can say with confidence that I have met only 1 of each. I have been on ebay with codes first, then items for well over a year. I was the very first item seller on ebay and also sold the first inferno. Scammers are relatively few on ebay since there are legal recourses.

What this "crackdown" does is take the business off of ebay and into straight sales where there are less protections for both buyer and seller. But as a whole, it will be cheaper. Most of the ebay sellers like to let their auctions ride. There are only a few, like myself, that set a fixed price for their auctions and never waver. This goes for physical goods as well. Having a store and setting a standard price is better for everyone. I know what I am going to make, the buyers know what they are going to pay. I actually hope they DO continue with the crackdown. I will make twice as much because all the other sellers will disappear while I will still have my off-ebay store running.

Edited to add: This is not an advertisement, I will not respond for requests for purchases through this site.
 
So let me understand this eBay is pulling all sales even cards with or without codes intact?
 
One of my auctions they pulled was a card, BUT I had offered ingame delivery on that as well. I have not seen them pull any of the cards yet, but, they could and would do so at Disney's request. I also sell gift cards and Dunkin Donuts has any auction with a DD gift card in it pulled. It is probably different, since there is probably some text on the back of the card that says that they own it or whatever, but those three little words on the cards make it possible "Not for resale"
 
You know, the more I think about this, the more I think Disney figured out that eBay is making a ton of money on this, and will probably be adding some sort of Disney Auction function to accommodate VMK. Either that, or maybe they will implement what World of Warcraft has and install an in-game auction house. In WOW, you can buy and sell anything with your virtual gold.

Disney is not going to miss an opportunity to make some money, and this would be the logical leap for them to do.
 
You know, the more I think about this, the more I think Disney figured out that eBay is making a ton of money on this, and will probably be adding some sort of Disney Auction function to accommodate VMK. Either that, or maybe they will implement what World of Warcraft has and install an in-game auction house. In WOW, you can buy and sell anything with your virtual gold.

Disney is not going to miss an opportunity to make some money, and this would be the logical leap for them to do.

I think that would be awesome....while I have never bought nor sold VMK items on eBay ....I would be much more comfortable about it being run and controlled by Disney.

I hope that is the plan.
 
Um... no it's not if it's an internet privacy one. lol.. Every forum, game etc. online makes you agree to it. The contract is that you don't hold the owner liable and you know what your doing by agreeing to it.

Yes, I know what the internet contracts say. I'm telling you, though. Contracts made with a 13 year old are voidable by the child. In all 50 states. I've litigated those cases, in court, to judgment. So ... um ... yes, no matter what the contract.
 
Does everybody agree here that you don't own the VIRTUAL items in VMK?

Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but, you can't sell something you don't own right?(In the US, not sure about other countries) Hence the illegal part.

I sell things I don't own all the time. Yes, you can do it. Legally. And I'm in the U.S.
 
What would said items be?

The primary examples would be (1) things I don't own yet, but plan to obtain ownership right to that I can then give to the buyer (a classic example: that person mentioned above who is selling the next VMK card that isn't out yet. Perfectly legal); and (2) CDs, books and licenses for software that I license, but do not own.

Are you saying that it's legal to sell a car that you parents bought for you? Even though the title has their name on it and they own it? So, cite me a case, a statute, a regulation that says doing this is legal, and I'll admit that you are right.

That is a fantastic example, because I did, in fact, do precisely this. My parents bought my first car. I sold it when I was 19. I advertised it for sale. I took it out for test drives. I parked it on the street with my phone number on a "for sale" sign. I even wrote up a bill of sale for it. When it came time to convey the title, a week after I cashed the deposit check, when the buyer rolled up with a cashier's check for the rest, I obtained clean title by getting my dad to sign it over. I don't know what case, precisely, I would have relied upon in doing so, but such rules of law have been part of Anglo-American jurisprudence for several centuries.

As for the specifics of "selling" rights to digital goods that you do not own, a good starting point would be National Car Rental Sys., Inc. v. Computer Associates Int'l Inc., 991 F.2d 426, 433 (8th Cir.), cert. denied, 126 L. Ed. 2d 136, 114 S. Ct. 176 (1993), which says it is not illegal to make even commercial use of software for benefit of a third party when original terms of use (license) provided that only original licensee could use license to process it own data. You don't own the software. Yet you can sell the use of it to another party without fear of violating the law.

There was another interesting case, not litigated in court, where one George Hotelling publicly sold his iTunes song to one Keith Elder. Although Apple's terms of use did not permit transferring downloaded songs, Apple begrudgingly admitted was not against the law to transfer the downloaded file, even though the license did not permit it, and the song did not belong to the seller. There is a long line of cases that hold that a person who possesses a lawful copy of a copyrighted work is allowed to sell it without the permission of the copyright owner. If you really want to read about it, try starting with a google search for "first sale doctrine" or start with wikipedia's entry for the same: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-sale_doctrine

So, there, I've cited you a case that is good law, pretty well close to being right on point. Your turn.
 
I decided to look this up and it seems PayPal does not recognize digital delivery as a valid form of delivery. I went to the PayPal website to check on the digital delivery protection and found this:

Note: Like other non-physical items, digital items are not covered by PayPal's Buyer Protection Program or eBay's Standard Protection Program.

So it seems that it works only one way in that if an item isn't delivered the buyer can not make a claim on digital delivery items. So maybe that is the reason they want to stop it, because it is too easy for sellers to scam buyers. That in fact happens a lot more than anything else and in a variety of different ways. Digital items being quite susceptible because delivery can't be proven and buyers can not make a claim. I am sure anyone here who sells items on Ebay virtual or not is not out to scam anyone, but people do it on Ebay every single day.

In any case it would be nice if there were a way that was safe for both buyer and seller to sell and purchase VMK items with a lessened likelihood, or possibility of fraud. I have to assume this is their biggest concern, however Ebay has never cared a lot about fraud on their site before as long as they collect their fees. :lmao:

-Stacey
 
Oh my, Stacey, have you been burned on ebay before? LOL

Well, I have been on ebay for several years and have only been "scammed" maybe twice. I know of more BUYERS who have scammed sellers than sellers who have scammed buyers. Believe it or not, it is QUITE more common that buyers are the scammers than sellers. Rule of thumb is to trust the feedback system. High positive feedback means your likelyhood of being scammed, digital delivery or not, goes down significantly. and by looking at the feedback, you can find who left it and then contact them directly and ask about the seller behind the scenes. I have done it many times.
 
LOL No I haven't been burned, I have had one buyer try to get over on me and that was quite a few years ago. I have luckily never been burned by a seller. I just know what I have heard from friends of mine on Ebay and it goes both ways. I have been lucky. In 6 years of buying and selling I have had wonderful experiences for the most part. :)

My post was because someone said that the reason Ebay was supposedly
stopping the sale of virtual items was because of the form of delivery. So I was giving my opinion as well as citing facts that would back-up Ebay's reasoning if they are indeed stopping the sales and if form of delivery is in fact the reason.

I also found this. After all the debate here about the legality of selling the items in the first place, it seems that is exactly part of the reason the sales are being ended.

eBay has decided that the intellectual property rights on virtual items are a bit too murky for its taste: "Given the nebulous nature of ownership in online games, eBay has decided the prudent decision is to remove the possibility for players to sell what might be the [intellectual property] of other parties via their service," writes Slashdot member Zonk....As Zonk notes: "eBay is ipso facto declaring virtual goods to be the property of the game makers and not the players who 'earn' them."

-Stacey

p.s. I am sorry if I am coming off in anyway rude, or emotional, most people think I'm really friendly. :flower3:
 
Actually, ebay has always prohibitted Virtual Items - there is no murkiness at all - since in reality, you are NOT selling an item, but rather selling the right of transfer, or selling your time/work whathaveyou - since you never remove the item from the game and the item exists only in the game, it does not get "murky" at all. I have looked into this substantially, including pouring over the Westlaw database - and actually, not for this, but for other things. This is CLEARLY not a copyright violation. It just happens to be ebay policy (established about 4 years ago) they they decided to start enforcing.
 
I don't know all the details I just copied and pasted the pertinent parts from the article I found on the topic.

All we know is what the press is told. If they are saying it is "murky" and it's legally not so maybe they need to be informed of this. Anyone who can clear the murk for EBay should email or call them and do so.

-Stacey
 
I decided to look this up and it seems PayPal does not recognize digital delivery as a valid form of delivery. I went to the PayPal website to check on the digital delivery protection and found this:

Note: Like other non-physical items, digital items are not covered by PayPal's Buyer Protection Program or eBay's Standard Protection Program.


That is quite true. A while back, when a DIS board member whom I cannot name was ripping people off by using stolen paypal accounts to buy big-ticket stuff on eBay (Yellow Ariel chests, mass quantities of inferno, stitch, sparrow), none of the sellers could get any relief from Paypal when the real account holders filed claims to reverse the fraudulent charges. It wasn't until complaints were made with the police in the UK and other threats were made that some of the items were returned. Conversely, when this kid or his mom resold the VMK stuff using his mom's eBay account, some of the ripped-off sellers tried to use a little self-help to get even by buying from her and claiming they didn't get the stuff they bought. Paypal didn't get involved in that either.

Because of all this, buying and selling VMK stuff on eBay was and is like the Wild West. It makes me too nervous. I don't do it. But again, not because it's illegal. Simply because it's too risky. I wouldn't buy or sell anything of value that way, because if you get burned, you are burned and there's little you can do to cover yourself.
 














Save Up to 30% on Rooms at Walt Disney World!

Save up to 30% on rooms at select Disney Resorts Collection hotels when you stay 5 consecutive nights or longer in late summer and early fall. Plus, enjoy other savings for shorter stays.This offer is valid for stays most nights from August 1 to October 11, 2025.
CLICK HERE













DIS Facebook DIS youtube DIS Instagram DIS Pinterest

Back
Top