No more 'cuts in line' for many disabled Knott's guests

[SereneOne]

Yes, that would definitely be the solution to this problem.

Yes it would, then those people might think harder about what is fair and equal...

but please, keep making a joke out of it all. It is such a hilarious subject.

Good night all, just when you think you have seen the worst, people hit a new low.

 

[hentob]

I have been to Disney MANY TIMES and I have never encountered this phenomena of dozens of people tagging along. I am sure it happens in extreme cases, anything is possible and it angers me when people take advantage like that,.

And that is what I am talking about. I agree with you--It angers me as well

I am glad you have been to WDW "MANY TIMES". Imagine that family that will only go once in their lifetime and have to watch the extreme cases of line cutting

 

[Ichabadi]

Yes it would, then those people might think harder about what is fair and equal...

but please, keep making a joke out of it all. It is such a hilarious subject.

Good night all, just when you think you have seen the worst, people hit a new low.

I haven't made a single joke. Good night.

 

[breezy1077]

And that is what I am talking about. I agree with you--It angers me as well

I am glad you have been to WDW "MANY TIMES". Imagine that family that will only go once in their lifetime and have to watch the extreme cases of line cutting

Ahhhh, poor family that's inconvenienced for a very short moment of their trip. Sorry, no. Not the same, not the same at all.

 

[hentob]

Ahhhh, poor family that's inconvenienced for a very short moment of their trip. Sorry, no. Not the same, not the same at all.

I am talking about the RARE cases of 15+ people riding on 1 GAC

 

[Ichabadi]

True story...and I was VERY mad at DS over this one.

Last year we were at Epcot and DS ran into a friend of his while we were there. He went off with the friend and his brother. Later that night he said, "it was so awesome. ________ had a special pass because he's ADD but not hyper ADD and we got to ride everything as much as we wanted without waiting."

I know that it was a GAC and had to explain to DS what the pass was meant for and why he shouldn't have been using it. I don't know if it sunk in or not.

 

[MoniqueU]

I would never want to have to navigate disney or anyplace else with one of those motor carts; I don't know how people do it or actually really WHY? I don't mean don't do what you want to do or live your life to the fullest, it is way up to you not to me. But personaally I couldn't do it. That being said if someone in poor health or disabled gets a spot in line before me god bless them. I haven't walked a mile in their shoes so I don't care about having to wait an extra 3 minutes behind someone.

Me persoanlly I am disabled.. I have RP which means my retina is dying and have very bad peripheral vision and my straight on central vision is getting worse. (I hope I can keep dising) I am supposed to walk with a white cane which won't get me anything but a front seat pass to see things better. Heck if it is dark I can't see much of anything and if it is light inside I only see where my head is turned to. No one would want to live what I have been through and I wouldnt want to go through what other disabled people go through either. People need to have a little compassion which they don't. I would walk with my cane but I doubt it would make a difference to those people who care about being loaded into a ride before someone in a ECV. I also hold on and am led places by my hysband and no one recognizes what that is anymore. I can't remember the last time I saw someone with a cane or a seeing eye dog. It just isn't that common here w9ith all the crazy self cent3red people mowing you down, cutting you off in a store aisle and letting their kids run around you like banshees.

Chances are by the end of your life you will be disabled in some way too and then you will really understand lifes real struggles and real meaning but in the meantime have some patience and compassion for others.

 

[breezy1077]

I am talking about the RARE cases of 15+ people riding on 1 GAC

Unless that one family is following them around to every ride, then I am talking about that one ride they have to endure a longer wait. To which I responded.....I understood your post perfectly....still not the same , not the same at all.

 

[cmwade77]

At Disney, The parties of 17-22 with the disabled should not happen, the limit is supposed to be 6 including the person in the wheelchair, occasionally there will be an exception with young children or a 7th guest, but that is at the CM's discretion.

The problem with Knott's system in reality (from a friend who goes there regularly) is if you have a blue pass you end up waiting about 15-20 minutes to get the return time, then another 15-20 minutes when you return, resulting in much longer waits.

If Disney tried this, I would be ok, if the waits were truly the same exact length, i.e. a person entering the queue at the same time as when I came up was given one of those things meant to measure the wait time and I was allowed on when they got on.

Now at Disney, I have timed it out, compared to stand-by times, I typically wait 80-120% (depending on several factors) of that which those without special needs do. I find that overall it averages to about 98%, I personally feel that the wait time should be up to the needs, remember it also takes us 20-30% longer to get from point a to point b, and for some people it is even longer than that. Is it fair? No, but my point is, even with assistance, I will generally see less of the park than you do without assistance.

At WDW, we often have to wait for two-three extra busses before we can get on, as only so many wheelchair parties can board at once.

I do not mean for this post to sound rude in any way, I am only trying to educate people like the original poster that we do not get to cut in any line, even the busses are problematic. Now without the assistance that I get, I wouldn't be able to even go to WDW and based on the feedback that people that frequent Knott's, I know that under the current system I couldn't go. If they had staff there to specifically take care of the people with special needs, then it would not be a big deal, unfortunately, that is currently not the case.

 

[Belle1962]

It is POSSIBLE that a group of 17 may have 3 or 4 GAC's among them, especially if a hereditary type disorder (which not be visible) runs in the family. Probably unlikely but it IS possible.

It Iis POSSIBLE that the 17 people who got on the bus with granny and grandpa weren't really 'with" granny and grandpa---I KNOW--I've had people try to piggyback with me--I always look the CM in the eye and loudly state how many in my party (never more than 4--most times it is 2).

It is POSSIBLE that an ecv/wheelchair user may have a shorter wait in line than you. It is MORE LIKELY that they have a longer wait as they wait for the 1 in 20 car that is accessible. If a five minute ride has 10 cars and only 1 is accessible, and they are the 5th ecv/wheelchair group--they are waiting a MINIMUM of 50 minutes for the ride--even when the walkons are getting on in 30 minutes or less.

It is POSSIBLE that an ecv/wheelchair user gets into the theatre 2 minutes quicker than you. It is VERY POSSIBLE they have to wait through one or more shows as there may be 300 seats in a show for you but only 12 ecv/wheelchair spots.

It is POSSIBLE that you may get hit by a stroller or even an ecv/wheelchair user. It is more LIKELY that the ecv/wheelchair user will have someone stop dead in front of them, drag their child in front of them, have someone try to "outrun" them by cutting in front of them or fall into their lap as they back up to take a picture, jump over them as they try to get where they are going, etc.

It is POSSIBLE that you will get pushed or rudely shoved while waiting for a parade or fireworks. It is more LIKELY that when someone is in an ecv/wheelchair someone will squat their kids in the one inch of curb space in front of an ecv/wheelchair, stand their kids on the back of the $2,000+ ecv, hover over the person in an ecv/wheelchair --armpit view (and smell) for the person in the ecv, or climb OVER the ecv/wheelchair to get to where they want to go.

It is POSSIBLE that you may be seated within 15 minutes of your ADR. It is highly LIKELY that an ecv/wheelchair user will wait 45 minutes to an hour past their ADR for the few accessible tables in a restaurant--because they are used for both ecv/wheelchair and non-diabled guests.

There are cheaters trying to abuse the system---there are far more people reusing mugs, poolhopping, sleeping 5 to a room in a value, tryinh to scam the fastpass/baby swap system, sneaking unauthorized appliances into their rooms, parking at resorts to avoid the parking fee, passing on the nontransferable AAA parking pass, trying to sneak their friends and family into EMH even when they are staying offsite, trying to hang out for special events like P & PP, MNSSHP, etc., making several ADRs for the same time just so they can keep their options open--knowing that there will be ADRS they will not use and others will not be able to obtain, renting camp sites to get the onsite privliges but staying offsite--thus depriving a true camper from a spot, and more. Let's be equal opportunity judges here--if you lump everyone in an ecv/wheelchair into the same group then lump ALL guests into the above abuser categories too.

 

[cmwade77]

I would never want to have to navigate disney or anyplace else with one of those motor carts; I don't know how people do it or actually really WHY? I don't mean don't do what you want to do or live your life to the fullest, it is way up to you not to me. But personaally I couldn't do it. That being said if someone in poor health or disabled gets a spot in line before me god bless them. I haven't walked a mile in their shoes so I don't care about having to wait an extra 3 minutes behind someone.

Me persoanlly I am disabled.. I have RP which means my retina is dying and have very bad peripheral vision and my straight on central vision is getting worse. (I hope I can keep dising) I am supposed to walk with a white cane which won't get me anything but a front seat pass to see things better. Heck if it is dark I can't see much of anything and if it is light inside I only see where my head is turned to. No one would want to live what I have been through and I wouldnt want to go through what other disabled people go through either. People need to have a little compassion which they don't. I would walk with my cane but I doubt it would make a difference to those people who care about being loaded into a ride before someone in a ECV. I also hold on and am led places by my hysband and no one recognizes what that is anymore. I can't remember the last time I saw someone with a cane or a seeing eye dog. It just isn't that common here w9ith all the crazy self cent3red people mowing you down, cutting you off in a store aisle and letting their kids run around you like banshees.

Chances are by the end of your life you will be disabled in some way too and then you will really understand lifes real struggles and real meaning but in the meantime have some patience and compassion for others.

Just to let you know why some need an ECV, well, we LOVE WDW & DL, but there are days for my wife that the pain is SO bad, that she would literally be in tears at the end of the day if we didn't have one. Luckily, I have been able to avoid needing one so far, but with the way my knees have been acting lately, I don't know how long that will last. Admittedly, neither of us want to use one (and we are trying to loose weight, which will help a lot for both of us) as they are a pain in the parks, somehow, the second you get one you become invisible, I am still trying to figure out why no one can see you in one, but my point is without it my DW wouldn't be able to go right now.

 

[cmwade77]

It is POSSIBLE that a group of 17 may have 3 or 4 GAC's among them, especially if a hereditary type disorder (which not be visible) runs in the family. Probably unlikely but it IS possible.

It Iis POSSIBLE that the 17 people who got on the bus with granny and grandpa weren't really 'with" granny and grandpa---I KNOW--I've had people try to piggyback with me--I always look the CM in the eye and loudly state how many in my party (never more than 4--most times it is 2).

It is POSSIBLE that an ecv/wheelchair user may have a shorter wait in line than you. It is MORE LIKELY that they have a longer wait as they wait for the 1 in 20 car that is accessible. If a five minute ride has 10 cars and only 1 is accessible, and they are the 5th ecv/wheelchair group--they are waiting a MINIMUM of 50 minutes for the ride--even when the walkons are getting on in 30 minutes or less.

It is POSSIBLE that an ecv/wheelchair user gets into the theatre 2 minutes quicker than you. It is VERY POSSIBLE they have to wait through one or more shows as there may be 300 seats in a show for you but only 12 ecv/wheelchair spots.

It is POSSIBLE that you may get hit by a stroller or even an ecv/wheelchair user. It is more LIKELY that the ecv/wheelchair user will have someone stop dead in front of them, drag their child in front of them, have someone try to "outrun" them by cutting in front of them or fall into their lap as they back up to take a picture, jump over them as they try to get where they are going, etc.

It is POSSIBLE that you will get pushed or rudely shoved while waiting for a parade or fireworks. It is more LIKELY that when someone is in an ecv/wheelchair someone will squat their kids in the one inch of curb space in front of an ecv/wheelchair, stand their kids on the back of the $2,000+ ecv, hover over the person in an ecv/wheelchair --armpit view (and smell) for the person in the ecv, or climb OVER the ecv/wheelchair to get to where they want to go.

It is POSSIBLE that you may be seated within 15 minutes of your ADR. It is highly LIKELY that an ecv/wheelchair user will wait 45 minutes to an hour past their ADR for the few accessible tables in a restaurant--because they are used for both ecv/wheelchair and non-diabled guests.

There are cheaters trying to abuse the system---there are far more people reusing mugs, poolhopping, sleeping 5 to a room in a value, tryinh to scam the fastpass/baby swap system, sneaking unauthorized appliances into their rooms, parking at resorts to avoid the parking fee, passing on the nontransferable AAA parking pass, trying to sneak their friends and family into EMH even when they are staying offsite, trying to hang out for special events like P & PP, MNSSHP, etc., making several ADRs for the same time just so they can keep their options open--knowing that there will be ADRS they will not use and others will not be able to obtain, renting camp sites to get the onsite privliges but staying offsite--thus depriving a true camper from a spot, and more. Let's be equal opportunity judges here--if you lump everyone in an ecv/wheelchair into the same group then lump ALL guests into the above abuser categories too.

I could not have said it better myself, as you can tell from my post before yours.

 

[Tinkerbell424]

Honestly I don't like it at all. Yes it helps cut out those who pretend to be disabled, but it ruins it for those who are disabled.

My mom has hep. c and is unable to walk the lengths of the parks and stand in line for long periods of time. We get her a wheelchair and use the disabled one whenever possible to keep her from getting very tired and sick.
I'm 15 and my brother is 14. Why should we have to get seperated from our mom and wait in a 2 hour line without her?

JMO.

 

[cmwade77]

I wish there was a way to determine if a person is capable of waiting in line like others who are "non-disabled" but is just in a wheelchair. For instance, Sue (12) sprains her ankle 2 days before she leaves for vacation and mom & dad rent her a wheelchair so she can still enjoy her vacation at the parks as much as possible. Can Sue wait an hour to board space mountain? Sure, she would have if she didn't just sprain her ankle. Should she wait the hour? IMHO yes she should.

I am fully aware there are many visable and invisable disabilities were the person can not wait like others can and I think those people should be able be accomidated. How do we tell who should get "front of the line" priviledges and who should not? Got me.

All that being said I do commend Knott's for trying to do something about those persons who were taking advantage of the situation and it sounds like they covered their bases by saying that guests with special needs could talk to guests services and get special passes.


As far as wheelchair guests being immediately loaded onto the busses, I just don't get it. Why don't they have to wait on line? Can't the bus drivers see that there are X number of people that are going to fit on this bus (say 50 for example), if the wheelchair bound person(s) are in the first 50 guests in line they are boarded, if not they wait for the next bus

First off, there is not a front of the line pass, second, the way the busses work is based on FEDERAL law, as they are public transportation.

If a wheelchair party is waiting and can not be boarded, then the bus must be considered full for that stop and can not load ANY passengers. If more than one wheel chair party is waiting, the bus must load as many wheel chair parties as it can before letting other passengers on. The wheelchairs are put on first for safety reasons, it is hard to maneuver ECVs and wheelchairs on the bus and imagine the lawsuits if some one got hit by one.

 

[Ichabadi]

First off, there is not a front of the line pass, second, the way the busses work is based on FEDERAL law, as they are public transportation.

If a wheelchair party is waiting and can not be boarded, then the bus must be considered full for that stop and can not load ANY passengers. If more than one wheel chair party is waiting, the bus must load as many wheel chair parties as it can before letting other passengers on. The wheelchairs are put on first for safety reasons, it is hard to maneuver ECVs and wheelchairs on the bus and imagine the lawsuits if some one got hit by one.

I think most people are fine with the wheelchair riders boarding first. It makes complete sense logistically. Federal law doesn't dictate that everyone with that person gets to board first and that's where the problem lies at WDW. Have one person wait with the person in the wheelchair in case they need assistance, and have the rest of the party get in the queue with everyone who is waiting. Everyone is happy and we all get to go to WDW.

 

[alizesmom]

It's sad. Disney is supposed to be a happy place, a place to gather wonderful memories. Instead people are so into worrying that someone else is getter a better deal that they miss out. We fear losing precious minutes on POTC because someone, somehow got to go first. Waiting is frustrating for everyone abled or not, no one wants it. We fret that the other guy cheated and somehow has marred our good time.

Why give another person such power over you? Go for the fun of it, for the joy of time with your family, not to keep score of how many rides you got on.

I have heard both sides of the arguement. I have lived both sides. Being on the nondisabled side is less stressful as a whole but not neccessarily less fun.
You want me and my kids wait in line with you? That's just fine. We'll people watch. However when we get to the front then everyone behind us has to wait until we get our turn even if it means several cars empty out and leave that way until an appropriate car shows up. That's fair, isn't it?

Some who are disabled definitely get the "I'm entitled" attitude. I'm sorry they or their child has problems. It sucks but that doesn't mean that they should get special privelige. They should get treatment that helps even up the playing field though. I've been in the handicapped line when we bascially walked right in and I've been in the handicapped line where I have watched people who got in line way after us ride first. Even in the handicap line ther is inequality. Can you transfer to a regular seat? Then you can get on now. If you can't transfer, you may have to wait a long time.

Hey there are jerks who are disabled and jerks who aren't and then the bigtime jerks who pretend. Rules aren't going to change any of them so don't let them have the power to ruin your fun.

 

[cmwade77]

I think most people are fine with the wheelchair riders boarding first. It makes complete sense logistically. Federal law doesn't dictate that everyone with that person gets to board first and that's where the problem lies at WDW. Have one person wait with the person in the wheelchair in case they need assistance, and have the rest of the party get in the queue with everyone who is waiting. Everyone is happy and we all get to go to WDW.

Actually, federal law does dictate that your entire party may board with you; however, a theme park and other similar establishments MAY place a reasonable restriction on this, one would simply not be reasonable, 5 additional is, more than that and yes the remainder need to wait with everyone else, heck they will probably beat the wheelchair party there 8 times out of 10.

This is truly a sad thread, it makes me realize just how far those with disabilities need to go before getting the same respect as those without them. Am I asking for special treatment? No, just that all wait times average out to be as equal as possible, keeping in mind the additional walking/riding time from point a to b, etc. now that will never happen, but at current the wait times are close to equal most of the time, the just don't account for extra travel time.

 

[shelby22]

Sorry, I thought your name was Ichabod for some reason. Do not tell me to calm down, I am not upset and my name is not Nelly. I feel the rules are disgusting and so do others, not only that it is EQUAL treatment not preferential...you want equal, hand me over one of your kidneys, sew up your butthole and poop out of your ******, tether your spinal cord, fuse your ribs and cut a couple out, poke a hole in your heart and sew up your mouth and be fed out of a tube on your side. THEN you can say you are EQUAL.

A little harsh don't ya think! Calm down .

Honestly, what would be the harm in doing something like this... play along here. You know those cards that the ride attendentants periodically give out to determine how long the wait is. Why not give something like that to a physically challenged party (1, 2, 10, 20 as many are in the party since it's irrelevant) and send them to a standby waiting area, shaded with seats, maybe even air conditioned . The next party that gets in line gets another special pass signifying the ride attendant to call upon the other waiting party. Nobody feels "cheated" or treated specially in this way.

I'm sure somebody who was paid to come up with these ideas could make a working system based on something like that. It seems to me the issue here is not wanting to split up your party to adhere to a theme park policy which is attempting to make the waiting game a little more fair.

 

[MoniqueU]

Just to let you know why some need an ECV, well, we LOVE WDW & DL, but there are days for my wife that the pain is SO bad, that she would literally be in tears at the end of the day if we didn't have one. Luckily, I have been able to avoid needing one so far, but with the way my knees have been acting lately, I don't know how long that will last. Admittedly, neither of us want to use one (and we are trying to loose weight, which will help a lot for both of us) as they are a pain in the parks, somehow, the second you get one you become invisible, I am still trying to figure out why no one can see you in one, but my point is without it my DW wouldn't be able to go right now.

Oh, I understand completely. I am just stubborn myself and haven't been to disney in a couple of years because of my eyes and the crowds even though my kids and husband have passes. I support anyone that needs any assistance and has the guts to get out there and do stuff. I know personally how hard it is.

 

[cmwade77]

A little harsh don't ya think! Calm down .

Honestly, what would be the harm in doing something like this... play along here. You know those cards that the ride attendentants periodically give out to determine how long the wait is. Why not give something like that to a physically challenged party (1, 2, 10, 20 as many are in the party since it's irrelevant) and send them to a standby waiting area, shaded with seats, maybe even air conditioned . The next party that gets in line gets another special pass signifying the ride attendant to call upon the other waiting party. Nobody feels "cheated" or treated specially in this way.

I'm sure somebody who was paid to come up with these ideas could make a working system based on something like that. It seems to me the issue here is not wanting to split up your party to adhere to a theme park policy which is attempting to make the waiting game a little more fair.

Actually, the problem that I have with the Knott's system is it sounds great on paper, but in practice it doesn't work, you wait to get the return time, you wait to use it, you end up waiting an extra 30-60 minutes, this is not fair to anyone.

Again, I have not been there myself, but this comes from someone who goes frequently and should know. Now to be honest it is a shorter wait than on the old system, but still not right.