No Debates About The Illegal Immigrants Issue?

[mickeyfan2]

I welcome all legal immigration. Illegals and those that employ them should be prosecuted.

ITA

Since ALL of my relatives came via Ellis Island and the US had the right to send them right back on the ship they arrived on, they ARE here legally. The US new their names and told them where to go for a job and they had to follow ALL laws of this land. This is what I still expect.

 

[Mskanga]

I am a foreigner and I will say , if they want to come here , let them come however the government should force public and government entities to request proof of legal residency for people applying for public assistance or employment. Living and working in the USA is a priviledge as long as you follow the law , not a right, it's the same thing in any country you go to not just the USA.
I am a legal resident , however because I still don't have my citizenship I cannot vote , but I can pay taxes.
Do I believe in walls? no , but I believe in government agencies enforcing the law and consequences of those who do not abide by it. Employers who hire those workers because they want to save benefits and pay them 1/3 of the salary , should be fined , period.
And yes one of the requirements to get a job would be to speak basic english at the very least.

 

[mickeyfan2]

Joke all you want.....it's been done.

My DH's grandfather immigrated here from Ireland. In order to get citizenship, he enlisted in the army and fought for the U.S. in WWI. He was given citizenship after his service.

Yes it has been done.

 

[Tiziminchac]

Tell the drywallers, roofers, carpet layers, tile guys, painters, framers, landscapers, etc., that they didn't really want their jobs. The jobs they can't get now because Florida is overrun with illegals who do those jobs for much less. To say that illegals are doing jobs that legit Americans don't want is a joke! And to top it off, the work is substandard.

I read an article in the paper a week or two ago that said a study had been done and it came to the conclusion that illegal immigrants cost American taxpayers money every year. I wish I could remember the numbers. But when the costs of schooling their children, medical attention, welfare and such were balanced out we (the American taxpayer) were paying more to help these people than they brought to the table with their services.

And on a personal level, I've been told by more than one illegal Mexican that my paying taxes was just stupid. They haven't a clue about where the money comes from for our schools, traffic lights, highways, the list just goes on and on. I won't miss 'em if we send them back. If you want to live here in America than join the program.

 

[DVC Sadie]

I have seen on the news where the Mexican government supplies the future illegals with DVD's, maps, brochures, etc on how to best slip into the US, sort of like a travel agency. And have seen where groups of illegals have sued because the US government does not have any/or enough watering stations in the desert to keep them from dying from heat exhaustion in the desert crossing. I wonder if the rest of the world laughs at us.

I am retired from the Air Force and was stationed in a lot of different countries so I will say YES, a lot of the other countries do laugh at us in regards to immigration. Illegal immigrants have been a problem for decades and everytime we give amnesty it just encourages more illegals to come on over. Pitiful in my view.

 

[Caradana]

I prefer just to deny benefits wherever practical. Simple things. Require a SS# for health benefits and for admission to schools, would be a good start.

Denying school benefits will not stop illegals from coming and bringing their children. So what would be the result of a policy like this? You'll have uneducated non-english-speaking children spending their days hanging out in convenience stores, for lack of anywhere else to go.
What happens to an uneducated non-english-speaking zero-job-skilled child who becomes an adult in this country?
He either (a) does what his parents do, dishwashing or whatever, or (b) becomes a criminal. Far more likely the latter. Someone is going to read this post and say "Dana, no, he can do (c), go back to his home country like he should." His home country is here. He was raised here. He has a tenuous connection to anywhere else.

I can understand the urge to "punish" illegals by stripping away services, under the logic that if we take away free health care and education, more of them will go home. The problem is - the logic doesn't work. They are here for the $7/hour and the food in their stomach. Free health care and education definitely sweeten life here, but they aren't main drivers. So why on earth would our policy be to provide this stuff?

Because it has major social implications for all of us. Say you have an illegal with a broken leg in Massachusetts - should we spend the couple of thousand dollars setting his leg? Would we rather dump him on a bus to Mexico with no treatment? (never mind that no doctor in good conscience could do that; they live by the Hippocratic). Here's a bigger one - lets say we have an illegal in Massachusetts with tuberculosis. Should we treat him? If we don't, there's a huge chance of an infestation, and these guys are washing restaurant dishes with their hands. At the end of the day, we can either tell illegals to medically suffer in silence or we can treat them and accept the cost as something we have to bear as the best country on earth. And knowing the ideology of so many posters before me, perhaps the best answer is to ask ourselves What Would Jesus Do. "Blessed are the merciful, for they shall be shown mercy."

How about education. Are we content as a society to create a second-class of illegal children in this country? What do we think will happen to them? They will pick our pockets and rob our homes in order to eat. Could it be that educating them keeps us safer over the long term?
We know this: legalizing abortion cut the American crime rate. (check out a book called Freakonomics if this interests you.) By similar logic, we can say with some certainty that cutting off education for illegal children will increase the American crime rate.

They aren't going home, guys. This is their only chance at a life that means anything. We can deport them but it makes zero sense for us economically to do that. So, we can decide how we want to apply our resources to mitigate their presence. Would we rather pay to treat the one case of TB, or treat the entire city when there's an infestation? Would we rather pay to educate the child now, or incarcerate him later?

Think long-term pragmatics.

 

[bicker]

So what would be the result of a policy like this?

It discourages illegals from coming and bringing their children. It makes it clear that the United States is standing up for its taxpayers. It establishes a principle that action will be taken against illegal immigration.

I can understand the urge to "punish" illegals by stripping away services, under the logic that if we take away free health care and education, more of them will go home.

The #1 benefit of stripping away health care services is reduction in the cost burden of health care on taxpayers.

Free health care and education definitely sweeten life here, but they aren't main drivers.

More financial transparency would help. Make it very difficult for people to earn profit in a business if they hire illegal aliens.

They aren't going home, guys.

Not without our help. We're willing to help. It will be better for America in the long-run.

Think long-term pragmatics.

Without a doubt!

 

[ducklite]

I think there's no good answer.

The laws that already exist need better enforcing. If we aren't enforcing the laws we've already got on the books, why bother to add stricter laws?

I can't believe I"m saying this, but for once I like one of Georgies ideas--that of a "guest worker program." I've always thought that we need to allow laborers who would primarily be Mexican into the US on an as needed basis to fill jobs in agriculture, construction, and other labor that no US citizen wants to do. Require them to be sponsored and if they don't leave and are caught at the end of their "term", they are banned from ever coming back. Make it desireable for them to leave by giving them first priority in the Green Card pool for following the rules, and imposing strict penalties for not doing so. If they can maintain their "Sponsorship" and work consistently, paying taxes, for a period of five years, they can be offered the opportunity to get a green card. Eventually we will have enough documented people that it will be easier to have a good reason to shut the doors tight.

My biggest problem with our current immigration policies are not with the Hispanic labor segment, but with the more skilled I/T people from India, Pakistan, China, and other Asian countries who ARE taking high paying jobs from US citizen's.

Anne

 

[AllyandJack]

I like the idea of the guest worker program, too. That way, they pay taxes, get benefits (health insurance, unemployment, work comp.) and can get at least the minimum wage. They can be here without hiding, earn a living, become a citizen, if they want. If, in a few years, they decide to go back home - fine.

There are people from all over the world who come here to work and they do it the right way. It's time we forced EVERYONE to behave in that manner. It can only benefit them. Sure, it might take some more effort on their part to make it happen, but life is full of sacrifices.

 

[Mskanga]

My biggest problem with our current immigration policies are not with the Hispanic labor segment, but with the more skilled I/T people from India, Pakistan, China, and other Asian countries who ARE taking high paying jobs from US citizen's.

And they are taking those out of this country why? Because it saves the companies, puts more money in their profit pockets, they don't give a crap about the americans who are willing to do that job for a decent salary and benefits!

 

[bicker]

I like the idea of the guest worker program, too. That way, they pay taxes, get benefits (health insurance, unemployment, work comp.) and can get at least the minimum wage.

I totally agree! Their taxes can also support the schools they send their children too.

 

[Feralpeg]

I remember back in the 50s and early 60s when the immigration department actually did raids on employers they knew were employing illegals. The illegals were sent home and the employers fined big time.

They could make huge dent in the problem by simply targeting a few industries in this country that are known to employ illegals. The building industry alone should be targeted and fined big time. Yes, we might see an increase in house prices for awhile because the builders would actually have to hire legal qualified workers and pay them a decent wage and benefits. It would all settle out in the end, because the builders can't stay in business if houses are so expensive no one buys them. The legal workers would put money back into the system. The excuse that we need illegal workers to keep industry going in this country is just that, an excuse.

I'll probably get flamed for this next statement. This country is a melting pot formed by people from many parts of the world. I love that fact. We've have a rich history from many cultures. Now, at least in this area, I see that blend of cultures being smothered by one culture.

The media and businesses are starting to cater to this culture because of their large numbers. While I enjoy hearing a foreign language spoken occasionally, I don't think English should become the second language of this country. To tell you the truth, I am really sick of hearing Latin music blaring everywhere I go. Do to the building going on behind me, I wake up to it each morning.

I encourage controlled numbers of immigrants from around the world to make the US their home. I don't want the current culture of this country to be drowned out in a wave of Hispanic illegals.

 

[ducklite]

And they are taking those out of this country why? Because it saves the companies, puts more money in their profit pockets, they don't give a crap about the americans who are willing to do that job for a decent salary and benefits!

I agree 100%. But some of these jobs will remain in the US, and unfortunately US citizens have to compete for those jobs with recent immigrants who were brought in as a source of "cheap labor." I like the way Canada handles immigration. A company must prove that they were unsuccessful in hiring a Canadian citizen for a position before they can sponsor an immigrant worker, and they must tell the government what the pay scale is, and must pay the immigrant worker as much as they would have offered a non-immigrant worker, which must be within the average pay range for that position in that geographical area. it's cut down on bringing in "cheap foreign help."

Anne

 

[Lanshark]

Would someone please explain the process for coming into this country legally? Then explain why these people are unwilling/unable to go through that process.

We've spent billions on a war on terror to supposedly keep this country save. Why in the world are we ignoring the floods of people coming here from all of our borders without proper documentation? I just don't get it.

 

[Mskanga]

I'll probably get flamed for this next statement. This country is a melting pot formed by people from many parts of the world. I love that fact. We've have a rich history from many cultures. Now, at least in this area, I see that blend of cultures being smothered by one culture.

The media and businesses are starting to cater to this culture because of their large numbers. While I enjoy hearing a foreign language spoken occasionally, I don't think English should become the second language of this country. To tell you the truth, I am really sick of hearing Latin music blaring everywhere I go. Do to the building going on behind me, I wake up to it each morning.

You won't get flames from me on this. I hate to say this but some people do not make an effort to even learn the language you know why? because in most places ( including government agencies , everything is written in spanish too , so why do they have to learn english? they can get the same in spanish!!!!
I see politicians adressing the hispanic public in spanish , but I don't see them doing the same thing to the german, polish, italian, japanese etc etc in their own native languages......I wonder why that is?
One thing I never understood is why people have to blast spanish music for the entire neighborhood to hear......I have that here too!
I mean I listen to it at home or in my car sometimes but not to a level where everyone can hear it.

 

[Puffy2]

Haven't read all this but

1. I'm all for a wall and real boarder security for our national security. It's stupid of us to think that we have done anything of consequence about the "war on terror" if we continue to have huge gapeing holes on our boarders.

2. Our government doesn't do anything about the illegals because their corporate business pals need them for cheap labor. They are cheap because they don't have to pay them a fair wage, or give them any benefits or care for their medical needs if they get hurt on the job - I've even heard of companies opening up 401K accounts in the illegals names and then when they leave the job or are fired, they don't get the 401K money...someone else from the company (gee, I wonder who...) pockets it. Can you say, "corruption?" The govt. turns a blind eye to these illegal practices.

3. Creating laws that prevent the illegals from getting any healthcare or education while they are in the US is just cruel and morally wrong. It's especially hypicitical when these same politicians who turn a blind eye to the corporations hiring illegals propose such punitive legislation.

4. Illegal immigration is already "against the law" and so is hiring illegals. What do we have an INS for if they aren't going to do their job? We don't need more grandstanding and phony laws proposed by politicans in an election year - we need enforcement of laws already on the books.

 

[Puffy2]

totally agree! Their taxes can also support the schools they send their children too.

Many of these illegals are paying taxes. If they don't have a social security number (one probably gotten illegally) they will be given a "tax id number" when the corporation hires them. Taxes are taken out of their checks.

 

[ducklite]

Would someone please explain the process for coming into this country legally? Then explain why these people are unwilling/unable to go through that process.

We've spent billions on a war on terror to supposedly keep this country save. Why in the world are we ignoring the floods of people coming here from all of our borders without proper documentation? I just don't get it.

There are many ways of coming in legally, but most don't give you the legal right to work.

You can come in on a student or tourist visa (where required, not all tourists are required to have a visa.) You can come in on a "marriage" or "fiance" visa. With all of the above, you are not granted permission to work, and are generally allowed to only stay a specific amount of time without getting further permission to be here.

You can come in on a resticted employment visa where there is a specific length of time set that you can be here, and you are only allowed to work in a specific capacity for specific employer. The employer has to sponsor you.

You can come in on a non-restricted employment visa. These are usually good for three years, and you can't get one until you've had the restricted type for at least a year or two. I have several friends who are Canadians who are here on those right now, they are not taking jobs from US Citizens as they are musicians in established major label rock bands. They own homes here, and pay taxes, so they are benefiting our economy.

You can open a business and stay as long as you want, as long as the business is still open and running. There is a thriving market in the Orlando area to sell established mom & pop type businesses to Brits.

You can get into a lottery for a green card, a certain number are given to each country per year.

You can be sponsored by a US citizen, but this sometimes doesn't allow you to work.

You can be granted asylum on the basis of religious, political, or ethnic persecution in your homeland.

I'm not an immigration attorney, and I'm sure there are other ways to be here legally. Maybe someone who knows more about it can post more info--and correct me if I'm wrong with any of these.

Anne

 

[AllyandJack]

4. Illegal immigration is already "against the law" and so is hiring illegals. What do we have an INS for if they aren't going to do their job? We don't need more grandstanding and phony laws proposed by politicans in an election year - we need enforcement of laws already on the books.

I can't agree more with this statement. It's like the laws to ban cell phone use in cars. They can't enforce things like the speed limit, but they're going to enforce a cell phone ban?!? Give me a break. Enforce the laws we have and we won't have to waste valuable time and money bickering over proposed laws.

 

[Mskanga]

Many of these illegals are paying taxes. If they don't have a social security number (one probably gotten illegally) they will be given a "tax id number" when the corporation hires them. Taxes are taken out of their checks.

Ilegals do not pay taxes or get a tax id number unless they are sponsored by an employer , and most companies do not report those hires because it's beneficial for them.

3. Creating laws that prevent the illegals from getting any healthcare or education while they are in the US is just cruel and morally wrong.

It's even more cruel when they do the same thing to their own people. I know many people who need medical care and are denied because they can't pay and the treatment is too expensive , I know people who have all kids will braces in their mouths and they brag they were free while I had to enter into a payment agreement with an orthodontist to get braces for my kids , and both my husband and I pay taxes and insurance premiums for medical care, so where do we draw the line?