No availability to DVC members at my home resort

[Jimbo]

I'd just like to say that we're staying in a 2BR (the least popular room type) at OKW for 9 nights beginning 5/4/01. Those 9 days include 4 weekend nights, and only 5 weekdays.

Just doin' my part to make things easier on the rest of you DVC members. When your dues don't go up next year, you'll know who to thank.

 

[Figaro30]

The problem is that Disney sways you by saying that use year doesn't matter....and it does....that home resort doesn't matter.....and it does. That's my point. If I knew in December what I know NOW....I wouldn't have bought into OKW and probably would have bought BWV.

Don't let "Disney" blind you....there are still people who work there that are trying to get one over on you or maybe just make things seem less complicated then they really are. They are still people too! Don't be naive to this.

'81 - Cont.
'88 - Disneyland
'89 - Maingate East
'91 - CBR
'94 - CBR
'95 - CBR
'98 - BC
'00 - WL
'01 - OKW

 

[PamOKW]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>the only reason given for changing the point schedule to even out the weekdays was how it would affect our dues. [/quote]

I remember DVC sending something out showing that weekends were being under utilized and that they were considering rearranging the points. I do not recall at all that it would have any effect on dues.

I use DVC to take my vacations. Most times I end up with 2 weekends in my stays I would love to have the points "evened out".

 

[JAH]

Sorry to drag you into this Rich,
I agree with your assesemnet of the weekend issue.

My main theory is:

My deed says I own ".1765% of Unit 25" , I own 230 points. Divide 230 by .001765 means that building 25 being sold out is 130311 points.
Doing the math times 65 buildings is a total of 8,470,215 total points sold for the resort (an estimation if all building were identical).
If every single contract was the minimum 230 points there would be 36,827 OKW owners.
If the minimum was 150 points and all owners had that it would be 56,468 members almost 60% more members.
Being that most people would want to get the most bang for the buck they would want to go in the lower point seasons. There are only so many rooms, so the more total members in regards to the rooms the tougher it will be to get the ressie and the more important it is to book at 11 months.
I believe being that the minimum was 230 that MANY more owners at OKW own at least that many probably more, and MANY more BWV owners are at 150 or less than the old minimum of 230. That is why you do not have the situation at OKW that you read about on these boards at BWV. We all know that you need to book a GV at 11 months (Will be staying in August in one for the first time), but tha other rooms are usually availabe at 8& 9 months out. We all knew when bought that this was a system set up best for someone who is prepared and can plan trips well in advance - not for the whimsical spur of the moment vacation.
Doc - I agree that not all 150 pointers avoid weekends entirely and that "most" will avoid them somewhat. I have only once stayed and used both fri and sat for points (But my trips are usually onl 4 or 5 nights).

[This message was edited by JAH on 02-22-01 at 11:16 AM.]

 

[mickey7861]

We own at VB. Called the first day of my 7 month window and got a 2 bdr. at OKW and a studio at BWV for the weeks of July 22 and 29 with no problem at all. After reading of others problems we were worried. Friend's who own at BWV always have trouble booking but we had no trouble at all.

 

[RobDoc]

You are the one who stated "We are all harmed by the dues going up because the weekends aren't filled".
I am trying to get you to explain how you arrive at that statement. You assert that weekends are not filled, but dues have in fact gone down-NOT up as you state! I see no evidence that dues have gone up for any reason- especially weekend occupancy.

As for the reason for DVC to do anything, I have not seen any explanation for point reallocation- except to better utilize the reservation habits of the membership at the resorts. If you have some reference relating reallocation to a dues increase, please share the document with everyone. I, for one, am NOT willing to accept your memory as fact.

Doc
doc@wdwinfo.com

 

[RobDoc]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Sorry to drag you into this Rich,
I agree with your assesemnet of the weekend issue.[/quote]

JAH- are you saying that you agree with Rich that dues are higher because of weekend occupancy??

Maybe you can explain - as Rich has been unable to convince me that there is any relationship between dues and weekend occupancy- let alone that dues have increased because of occupancy.

 

[drusba]

A lot of figures are being bandied about, many of which I do not believe are correct. I looked at some of these things not too long by using figures provided in disclosure documents. I am going on memory here so I may not be completely accurate either but here goes:

Based on figures on total points and total number of owners I had from last fall, the average number of points owned by an OKW owner were about 220, at BWV about 230. That does not tell you how many are actually below or above those numbers. However, it is an indication that a lot of people buy more than 150 regardless of that being the minimum.

I also recall those weekday/weekend figures that were provided--which I believe were provided at or as part of the 1998 annual meetings. They weren't that dramatic once you figured out percentages. They gave some example time periods which basically showed in a medium busy time the weekday occupancy rate was about 85% while on weekend it was 65%; during a peak time weekday occupancy was 99% while weekend was about 80%. I am sure some of that is probably those with lower number of points not doing weekends but it is also a lot of people with higher number of points not doing weekends. Moreover, they have mentioned that the situation has "improved" since then, i.e., it does not seem to be getting worse based on the idea that they might be selling a lot more 150 point contracts.

Studios go faster than 1BR's which go faster than 2BR's. That I have been informed of by MS. Of course, they can generate more studios when needed by the lock off system when people are not taking 2BR's. Which raises an interesting point. They keep a lot of rooms available to be reserved as two bedrooms. I suspect that if you are told say 8 months out that all studios are gone that is not exactly true. They are likely still holding large numbers of 2BR's for 2BR ressies and as time passes those may be released as 1BR and separate studios creating more availability (in other words don't necessarily give up if you cannot get a studio now).

The only potential impact on dues that I could see caused by high weekday and low weekend use is on total cost of hotel employees; in other words if you are serving a 100% occupancy rate on weekdays and 70% on weekends you will actually need more employees (or have more doing overtime) than if you are doing 90% all the time. Don't know whether that is an impact of real significance.

 

[Richyams]

I can't really see the impact on dues either. I just remember that being one of the reasons they gave when asking the question on the survey. when a unit sits empty, the points get used somewhere else. The dues are paid on those points, we are not losing there, Disney or DVC recoups value for points used elsewhere...I don't know, I just remember them using dues as one of the reasons for evening out the points.

Hmmm, for not seeing the figures far a few years, according to dsruba, my memory of occupancy seems pretty perfect.....

Thanks

"From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs", Karl Marx, pretty sick, huh?

 

[HorizonsFan]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Moreover, they have mentioned that the situation has "improved" since then [1998], i.e., it does not seem to be getting worse based on the idea that they might be selling a lot more 150 point contracts. [/quote]

Rich,
If your memory of occupancy is perfect, why did drusba reach this conclusion while you drew the exact opposite?

Dave

[This message was edited by HorizonsFan on 02-22-01 at 03:16 PM.]

 

[Dean]

Figaro30

I realize that many people believe what is told them or implied by the DVC sales staff. While they are more ethical than most in the industry, timeshare sales people are as a group to me below used car salesman, LOL. To say "but the DVC sales person said" when discussing something where you have the real info in print or common sense would tell you otherwise, is simply not reasonable. To me, common sense would tell you that you should worry about where your home resort is, else no reason for a home resort priority window between 7-11 months. Again, you only bought OKW and anything over that is truly extra and gravy. Since you bought OKW, did you buy resale, if so, you have no beef with the salesman anyway as you didn't truly act on their advice.

The use year is a different issue. While I think there are advantages for some based on the use year, I think there are few instances where it is truly important.

Adjusting the points for weekends vs weekdays:

I don't see it as a dues issue, more of an availability issue. DVC has the fiduciary obligation to make sure all owners have the chance to use their resort within the specified parameters. If that means that many people are using weekdays and leaving the weekends open, that's a problem. It is especially a problem with a resort like OKW and BW where they are sold out. The truth is that only about 4% of the points should not be available on average for the whole year. Anything less means that there are those that can't use their points.

To me, the rooms that are given up for exchange (CC, DCL, Disney Col, etc) have been used by the DVC member but are now available for rental by DVC who will get the income which they will use to pay for the item obtained in exchange. It would be inappropriate to offer these rooms for points.

The numbers quoted for occupancy are in line with my recollection. I see the numbers posted as a HUGE difference. If those number hold up, DVC must act soon to alter this problem. Even though the weekend nights are only 2/7 of the week, a 20-35% vacancy rate is too much to make up during the week Hopefully, the sell out and limited availability have altered the usage. If I call up and can't get Sundy to Friday but can get Thur to Sunday, I just might take it even if it's more points.

Dean

 

[Nickymouse]

downontheBW,
Just read your post. You are so sweet to offer! Actually, when I attempted to get the reservation, the only thing they did have available was a studio, so I grabbed it out of desperation. It really is way too cramped for my family though. It is my hope that someone is in the opposite position as me: they booked a 1 BR but would prefer a studio for the week of Nov. 4th. The waitlist is not set up that way to accomodate switches though. Actually, I don't even know if it's allowed, but if anyone out there with 1 BR ressies wants to switch to a studio for that week, let me know.
When I started this thread, I didn't expect it to turn into such a heated discussion on so many different theories. Although, I must admit that I learned alot! I was really just looking to vent and I thank you all for your words of encouragement. Especially to you, downontheBW, for thinking of offering your reservations to me. I'll keep trying until I'm successful.

 

[RobDoc]

Historical Occupancy Levels.
This is verbatim from the 8/98 Multi-Site POS. Page 81.

"In compliance with Florida law and at such time as the DVC Reservation Component has been in operation for a period of two years, BVTC shall prepare a chart showing the actual levels of occupancy for each reservation seasom at eachDVC Resort during the first calendar year of operation. This chart will be revised and updated every two years.


Season 1995 1996 1997

OKW:
Adventure 100% 100% 81%
Choice 84% 85% 66%
Dream 83% 93% 73%
Magic 80% 88% 71%
Premier 70% 89% 95%

VB:
Adventure N/A 73% 74%
Choice N/A 75% 80%
Dream N/A 98% 100%
Magic N/A 100% 92%
Premier N/A 97% 99%

HH:
Adventure N/A N/A 35%
Choice N/A N/A 76%
Dream N/A N/A 85%
Premier N/A N/A 100%

BWV:
Adventure N/A N/A 100%
Choice N/A N/A 100%
Dream N/A N/A 100%
Magic N/A N/A 100%

Note: The above figures include Members' and Exchangers' use only."


I will try to get an updated record from MS. This document does not show any weekday/weekend usage information. The occupancy only includes the portion of each resort which was declared into inventory fo reach year. As of this report (1997) no resorts had sold out. OKW had it's initial sell-out in 1998.

 

[JAH]

Sorry Doc-

I meant I agreed with Rich's theory that minimum point contracts contribute to more members avoiding weekends, and going strictly to lower point seasons.(amd that Disney has done us a disservice by lowering the minimum)
I do not see a real correlation to that as to the annual dues, only to the difficulty in getting reservations 8 or 9 months out.

 

[HorizonsFan]

JAH,

What evidence did you use to reach your conclusion?

Dave

 

[Richyams]

How about common sense?

While one may use their 150 point packages to stay weekends, I think that it is only common sense that many do not.

I was very surprised to see that DVC stated that the problem isn't getting worse. I am not sure how I take that information....DVC is in a bind, they do have a conflict. Usually, when a conflict between sales and member's value comes up, sales seems to win every time hands down.

If they are not doing us a diservice, why was there ever any minimum to begin with?

"From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs", Karl Marx, pretty sick, huh?

 

[HorizonsFan]

Common sense is not evidence. If DVC says that the problem has not gotten worse, why do you insist that it has? They have the official figures; you do not.
They have evidence; you have an opinion.
See the difference?

Dave

 

[Richyams]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> DVC is in a bind, they do have a conflict. Usually, when a conflict between sales and member's value comes up, sales seems to win every time hands down.
[/quote]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> DVC is in a bind, they do have a conflict. Usually, when a conflict between sales and member's value comes up, sales seems to win every time hands down.
[/quote]

I will put this up twice, I don't know why it didn't show up on my first post, sorry..

"From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs", Karl Marx, pretty sick, huh?

 

[HorizonsFan]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> DVC is in a bind, they do have a conflict. Usually, when a conflict between sales and member's value comes up, sales seems to win every time hands down. [/quote]

I'll put it up again. That makes four times. It still doesn't make it a fact. It is your opinion which you refuse to (or cannot) support.

Dave

PS - I'm done with this thread. We'll debate again when you have some support for your argument.

 

[dianeschlicht]

play nice!

Disneydiane