No availability to DVC members at my home resort

[Dean]

I'm sorry you are feeling left out with the facts of how the system works. I'd like to remind you that there are "points" that either or not owned by DVC or are given up by members. These points are not, should not and cannot be available for member to use. DVC is very consciencous in not using these points to reserve high time, they could you know. It is certainly not reasonable to expect the rooms not to be rented for cash. That is income that in many instances is appropriately going to the general budget and controls our fees.

Another point of interest is that you bought into OKW and have been added to the DVC with the rules that apply. Other than the club system which is not contractual, we OKW owners have no claim on BW or any other resort we don't own. I realialize that you likely assumed this was automatic but the reality is that the club could in theory evaporate tomorrow and you would just have OKW and any exchange system that was made available to OKW members. There are no guarantees made about the 7 month window or getting into other resorts and I think you can expect this problem to continue or even worsen. Remember that OKW is larger (more rooms and more points), older and more out of the way; to me that says that th bottlenecks will be the BW, WLV, BCV. Likely eventually, WLV and BCV will be the difficults ones for the same reasons.

It appears that you knew and understood this info but assumed it wouldn't affect you and now that you see it will, you are upset. I understand your being upset even if it's no one's fault. As Rich says, buy where you want to stay most. Make sure you wait list your trip for BW.

Dean

 

[Richyams]

Original contract minimums were 230 points.

"From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs", Karl Marx, pretty sick, huh?

 

[HorizonsFan]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> I agree, the small packages force many of the owners of those packages to use only the lowest point times, to use only studios and to avoid weekends like the plague. [/quote]

Rich,
I am not accusing you of elitism or anything else but could you please provide some evidence that 150 pt. owners are more likely to avoid weekends, and how our owning "only" 150 pts. hurts you or any other member? Remember, I didn't ask for your opinion, I asked you to provide evidence to support your statement.
My wife and I stay in a studio because there are only two of us (IMO, that's why Disney built studios into DVC). We are able to stay 11 nights and we don't avoid weekends. A family of 5 who owns twice as many points will not be able to stay any longer than us because they have to have a 2 bedroom and they may, in fact be more inclined to budget their points and skip weekends.
Size of accomodation, season (more often than not, this is not a choice but is mandated by work schedules), choice of resort, view; all these factors affect how long a family may stay and how that family allocates their points as much as the number of points that they own.
If I wanted to stay in a grand villa every time I went to WDW, you're right, I don't have enough points. But I don't choose to do that and I have exactly the right amount of points for my family. Please stop opining blanket generalizations and attempting to make others believe that they are facts.
You can say something as many times as you like but that doesn't make it true.

Dave

 

[brittsmamabwv]

Amen Dave!! We have "only" 210 pts. There are three people incl. my DD who is not quite 3 yet. Those pts allow me to spend almost 3 weeks in a studio which is more than adequate for my family. I don't avoid weekends either. when we originally discussed buying into DVC it was with the presumption that we would spend most of our vacations in a studio when it was only our immediate family. Why would we need something bigger? right?

When you wish upon a star...DVC will take you far...anything your heart desires....will come your way

 

[Dean]

I believe it's pretty well establised (no I don't have the numbers to prove it) that weekends as a rule are less booked with points than weekdays. There are many factors in my estimation. Certainly those of us that live close by, smaller contracts, as well as the overall points structure are all going to play a role. These are some of the very concerns that made me think that either DVC would adjust the points for weekends vs weekdays or would institute some type of minimum or required stay, as most points systems have already done.

Dean

 

[Richyams]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Weekends do have the lowest occupancy.

Other then GVs at OKW and BWV, studios do go the fastest.

In recent years, and the 150 point buy in is recent, the lowest point periods have also been filled the fastest
[/quote]

What is not true?

Notice that I never accused all 150 point owners, I just that many are forced....even your eleven night trip contributes to two of these things.

I get tired of typing "in my opinion", I would like to see your evidence for believing that 150 point owners use Grand Villas during the weekends in the high point season.

As far as who is harmed, many of us are. We are all harmed by the dues going up because the weekends aren't filled, we are harmed by the call to the resort for a quick long weekend our four day stay anytime during the week on short notice not being available, any weekend is available, but no four day stretches are, no full weeks are, only weekends are available.

I don't know what imbalances and harm is caused by studios being reserved first, I am not certain if one bedrooms go empty because people wanted two bedrooms and there are none available because all the studios are gone...I don't know if that is a problem or not. I suspect that for the speed in which the studios go, that might be a problem.

In conclusion, I believe I have supported my arguments logically and well. I would really like to see your evidence that 150 point owners use Grand Villas on the weekends in the summer.

"From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs", Karl Marx, pretty sick, huh?

 

[HorizonsFan]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> I would really like to see your evidence that 150 point owners use Grand Villas on the weekends in the summer.[/quote]

Refresh my memory. Where did I say that 150 pt. owners use Grand Villas on the weekends in the summer? I simply asked you to provide evidence that 150 pt. owners are hurting DVC. You haven't done that. Any support you offer is your opinion and I would like you to represent it as such. I really don't care if you get tired of typing "in my opinion". When you represent your opinion as fact you are as guilty of misrepresentation as those unscrupulous DVC guides who hard sell VB points.
I stay in a studio because that's all my family needs! If DVC did not intend for my family to be able to stay in a studio, why did they build them?
Once again, how does my owning a 150 pt. contract, staying for 11 nights in a studio,in the summer, in my home resort and spending lots of money hurt DVC?
Facts please...

Dave

[This message was edited by HorizonsFan on 02-21-01 at 11:27 PM.]

 

[Richyams]

As far as who is harmed, many of us are. We are all harmed by the dues going up because the weekends aren't filled, we are harmed by the call to the resort for a quick long weekend our four day stay anytime during the week on short notice not being available, any weekend is available, but no four day stretches are, no full weeks are, only weekends are available.

Did you miss this paragraph or are you disputing it or are you looking for proof of it or do you deny that small packages increase the occurences of reservations that contribute to the difficulties I have outlined.

I think that it is very obvious that small packages contribute greatly to avoiding weekends like the plague, filling low point seasons faster then ever and studios being the fastest unit to go after Grand Villas.

Next stop, the debate board.....

"From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs", Karl Marx, pretty sick, huh?

 

[HorizonsFan]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Did you miss this paragraph or are you disputing it or are you looking for proof of it or do you deny that small packages increase the occurences of reservations that contribute to the difficulties I have outlined. [/quote]

I am not in a position to confirm or deny anything you said. You and others on this board may indeed have trouble getting the room you want on the days you want. My point is that you cannot, with any certainty state that this is due to the owners of small contracts. I have seen posts from large contract owners who cut weekends to make more trips during the year. I have seen posts from FL. residents who own large contracts and pop in for several quick trips during the week in the off season because they can and it's inexpensive. You have now seen a post from a small contract owner who makes trips during the summer and doesn't avoid weekends. Where is the proof that small contract owners are causing problems? It simply doesn't exist. If it's anything it's the point structure that DVC has instituted. As long as weekends cost twice as many points as weekdays, more people will avoid weekends whether they have 150 pts. or 550 pts.
BTW, how much have your dues gone up the last three years?

Dave

 

[msdis]

I have a story to share about our trip 2 weeks ago. We had wanted BWV and was put on the wait list about 2 months prior. Called every day right up until the friday before the sunday we left. It was that day that the first 5 days of our trip opened up. Not at ANY day prior to this did even one day become available and now we had 5. After arrival we checked on the remainder of our stay only to be told nothing yet. By the 2nd full day, friday had shown up and while adding on that day they decided to let us have the remainder of our stay. We were very grateful to all the cast members (there were several involved) who helped us but in no way did I feel the points we stayed there on, belonged to DVC members. I truely feel we stayed the whole entire trip as a result of Disney not renting out their share of the points/rooms and allowing a courtesy to us as a result. And I feel they only gave us part in the beginning in hopes of being able to rent it out the next weekend. This all makes good business sense and in knowing that understand why we didn't get the room at first but did later, on a wing and a prayer. This was our shortest of 3 booking at BWV since becoming members and the other 2 had no problems getting at something like 4 months out and somewhere between 7 and 11 months. Don't forget that the 100 year anniversary of Walt's birth starts in Oct. this year. I really think these celebrations make things worse as far as availabilty. And as far as your friends getting cash ressies, I think that because BWV IS so expensive, that the chance IS greater in obtaining a ressies. I too wonder how the 4% at each resort is allocated. I think it would only make good business sense that based on the points traded out, there be a pecking order as to filling up each resort with cash ressies. If a BWV member trades outside of DVC it does NOT mean that had they stayed within DVC they would have stayed at BWV. So do those points truely belong to BWV or do they really belong to DVC with 4% being the most Disney owns. If 25% of BWV members trade outside of DVC this year does Disney now control 29% of BWV? Or does that 25% get put in a pool along with all other DVC trades and all cash ressies get pulled from that up to the max. amount available from the points traded. And if so is this why BWV is filling up so fast even before the 7 month window, because more points are being sent BWV's way?

 

[RobDoc]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>We are all harmed by the dues going up because the weekends aren't filled, [/quote]

Whoa!! Where do have anything to support THAT statement. In many cases, IMO, the weekends ARE utilized by cash rentals- people who want just a getaway weekend on short notice!

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> we are harmed by the call to the resort for a quick long weekend our four day stay anytime during the week on short notice not being available, any weekend is available, but no four day stretches are, no full weeks are, only weekends are available. [/quote]

Whoa...AGAIN! In the last statement, you complained that weekends aren't filled- now you expect weekdays to be vacant also....just in case someone who lives nearby will run over for a 4 day weekend or a full week? You can't have it both ways.

Please provide your statistics that any of this is even true- 'cause I sure can't accept it just because it was written on the internet. Some people like to state that all of their comments are based on fact. Please provide the documentation for these statements!

Doc
doc@wdwinfo.com

 

[RobDoc]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I think that it is very obvious that small packages contribute greatly to avoiding weekends like the plague, filling low point seasons faster then ever and studios being the fastest unit to go after Grand Villas. [/quote]

Actually, I think that even those who claim to have larger "packages" contribute to the weekend issue. I have even read reports of one member who stays in a GV for 12 nights, but who only uses 1 of the 3 weekends available for that stay. That individual contributes to the weekends being available just as much as the 150 point owner who uses a studio from Sun to Fri.
It appears that "abuse" of the weekends knows no point minimums!

Doc
doc@wdwinfo.com

 

[Richyams]

I don't have the papers here, but DVC sent out something showing the average occupancy on the weekdays vs weekends. This was their basis for the question about evening out the points. I remember that no unit in any season was below 85%, most were higher than 95%.....on weedays.

Weekends were in the 55-65% range.

The papers didn't have any reference to what the deal with cash reservations was.

Sorry if I don't have the paper anymore, but those were the facts, facts, facts, at the time the question was asked. I think the minimum was 190 points then, or maybe it just went to 150....another indication that when it comes to selling more points or mantaining value for current members, selling more points wins every time.

I also agree that any stay that is not 2/7 weekends nights contributes to this. At least a stay that is 2/12 weekend nights is not 0 weekend nights.

I don't remember if that paper showing the occupnacy rates was something everyone got or if it was included with the survey, but it was definitely from Disney.

"From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs", Karl Marx, pretty sick, huh?

 

[RobDoc]

You apparently misinterpreted my question- what information do you have to prove that weekend occupancy adversely affects our dues?

It would seem to me that those rooms may well be utilized by cash rentals- which contribute to the DVC budget. The occupancy listing was included in some POS reports and points weekend use was lower than weekdays- but it does NOT include the cash rentals. The report was about DVC members utilization (on points). I will try to dig out the report, as I don't remember the actual statistics (and I won't try to guess just to support a statement!)

Doc
doc@wdwinfo.com

 

[Richyams]

I remember their reasoning for wanting to change the point schedule to even out the weekends was because it would increase our dues.

I hope you find it, you will see just how dependable my memory is.

Also, you missed the point of MY statement about short notice reservations. Calling for a four day stay and only having weekends available. If the usage was more even, you would be able to get those stays or nothing would be available....since the total number of points is finite, it would lead to more of those four day stretches being available.

"From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs", Karl Marx, pretty sick, huh?

 

[dianeschlicht]

No, I am not going to get into this discussion, but I have to tell you Rich, when you said,"facts,facts,facts", you reminded me of our illustrius governor Ventura! He always says something and than says, "joke, joke, joke" for the "media jackals", as he calls them. He never wants them to take his rantings seriously.

I just wanted to lighten up this discussion. I don't really think the use of weekend points has probably changed all that much over the course of the DVC since it's inception.

Disneydiane

 

[RobDoc]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I remember their reasoning for wanting to change the point schedule to even out the weekends was because it would increase our dues. [/quote]

How does that relate at all to the FACT that dues have decreased the last few years and the point schedule has remained unchanged since 1996?????

..or are you suggesting that changing the point schedule will increase our dues? (How would that work????)

I don't recall DVC ever offering an explanation as to how a point reallocation would affect anything- especially dues. Perhaps you could share where you remember that from (or better yet, find the source and provide it so we can all read and interpret it)? ....or is this a case of "selectively creative" memory?

Doc
doc@wdwinfo.com

 

[downontheBW]

We've always gone to WDW in November for 5-7 nights beginning on a Saturday. That hasn't changed now that we are DVCers. We have a 150 point contract because our kids are grown and we only need/want a studio for a week. When I made our ressie for Nov 2001, I was only able to get Sun-Thur - we're wait-listed for the Saturday night.

Nickymouse, there's a chance our plans might change. We have a preferred view studio for 11/11-11/15. If you'd like me to notify you by email if I cancel the ressie, send me your email address (see mine in my profile) and I'll let you know.

Dixie Landings '94, '96
Wilderness Lodge, Yacht Club '98
Off site (never again) '99
BWV '00
HHI '01

Heidi

 

[Richyams]

What are you talking about, the only reason given for changing the point schedule to even out the weekdays was how it would affect our dues.

There are many factors that affect our dues. Saying that dues have gone down, so my argument must be wrong....is a VERY poor argument, DOC.

It is colder now then it was last summer, see, I just proved that global warming is a farce!!!!!

Global warming is a farce, but there are way better arguments than that one.

"From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs", Karl Marx, pretty sick, huh?

 

[dianeschlicht]

Are you relating this to show that weekend nights are also difficult to get? If so, I think your difficulty is caused more from the need for a studio than the need for a Saturday. Studios seem to fill up the fastest (after GV's).

Disneydiane