New-Updated Rumors

[Dean]

Dean wouldn't that also be the case in Hawaii, the Caribbean, and Colorado.

Absolutely yes, timeshares do not sell themselves even in these areas. DVC is the only exception I can think of that truly sells itself and it does so because of the parks, not just the timeshare system itself. But you make it a lot easier if you pick a location that comes close to selling itself. Simply being in HI isn't good enough. You've got to offer a premier location for the resort itself such as Kaanapali beach and set yourself apart or you've got to generate the location like Marriott did with Ko Olina. DVC did neither with VB or HH. For VB they put it in a residential area, didn't advertise it nearly enough, didn't get a way to drag in people who were already visiting the area by offering incentives and didn't find a way to get timeshare owners into the property such as developer deposits. I know these are many of the things that members like about the tours but the fact is that volume and higher pressure sell timeshares.

 

[Dean]

You make a good point, Dean,......for the life of me I couldn't figure out why Disney had a hard time selling HH. It makes sense the way you put it. I guess the question is....did Disney learn from this and will pursue other resort areas and market differently.....OR will they just stay with on site Disney properties????

I don't think they've learned how to sell resorts that don't sell themselves. So far it appears they've learned to simply avoid the circumstance. I'll be surprised, but pleased, if we see resorts in those other areas. But given that DVC canned an announced resort in CA which they later sold to Marriott, abandoned a pending contract previously for CO and ceased discussions for a NY city location, I am not optimistic that we'll see non park related DVC resorts again. I'd love to be wrong.

 

[Anal Annie]

I can't imagine anyone thinking there is nothing at HHI, to attract visitors. Do you mean at the actual resort or the island?

The island is the number one repeat vacation destination for families in the nation. Over 60% are repeat visitors. Must be something there to attract people back year after year.

My thoughts are if HHI isn't a success then why is it so hard to get at 7 months? Hummm. Perhaps because it's not quite warm enough to be a true year round destination like FL....so it has a very high demand for 4-5 months or so a year then it's probably flat. I haven't been there but it sounds like the climate is the only holdback on that one.

I think something in the southwest (maybe AZ) would be a good draw. Maybe a dude ranch type of thing or something. Yeah, OK, I know it's hot there in the summer which is the flip side of HHI in the winter - but it's not the same humid crap a lot of us are used to...and I would think a close proximity to the Grand Canyon would help attract new visitors year round...I know we'd go...

 

[Anal Annie]

Absolutely yes, timeshares do not sell themselves even in these areas. DVC is the only exception I can think of that truly sells itself and it does so because of the parks, not just the timeshare system itself. But you make it a lot easier if you pick a location that comes close to selling itself. Simply being in HI isn't good enough. You've got to offer a premier location for the resort itself such as Kaanapali beach and set yourself apart or you've got to generate the location like Marriott did with Ko Olina. DVC did neither with VB or HH. For VB they put it in a residential area, didn't advertise it nearly enough, didn't get a way to drag in people who were already visiting the area by offering incentives and didn't find a way to get timeshare owners into the property such as developer deposits. I know these are many of the things that members like about the tours but the fact is that volume and higher pressure sell timeshares.

We hope to try VB in a couple of years...I would actually be really interested in it if they offered VB with a transportation option for the land portion of their "Land & Sea" combos rather than just the WDW resorts - I'd just as soon have 3 relaxing days at the beach as I would the parks...

 

[asianway]

OK, whether it be a DVC or Contemporary Resort building, site prep & construction will begin as soon as the building is razed. Every day those rooms are out of service, it is costing WDC money, they are not going to leave an asset idle for several years. When they closed the North wing doors, they knew the ultimate plan and all systems were go.

 

[disneymom8589]

You can tell by my signature logo below what I'm wishing for!!

 

[CarolA]

I can't imagine anyone thinking there is nothing at HHI, to attract visitors. Do you mean at the actual resort or the island?

The island is the number one repeat vacation destination for families in the nation. Over 60% are repeat visitors. Must be something there to attract people back year after year.

HHI is very nice.

However, If you look at the sales history for both HH and VB Disney had a harder time selling those resorts out then they do the resorts on property. As I recall VB was even "downsized" due to a lack of response.

I think Dean said it well, Disney was not equipped to do "stand alone" resorts without the draw of the parks, I think they just assumed that DVC sells well in Orlando we can just do the same model everywhere. Maybe, maybe not. HH for example has some agressive competetion from Marriott and unlike Orlando Disney does not have the "location" card (No MK or Epcot to be NEAR LOL)

 

[CarolA]

OK, whether it be a DVC or Contemporary Resort building, site prep & construction will begin as soon as the building is razed. Every day those rooms are out of service, it is costing WDC money, they are not going to leave an asset idle for several years. When they closed the North wing doors, they knew the ultimate plan and all systems were go.

They aren't? (Seen those Tree houses lately? See the "Legendary Years" at Pop? Remember the closing of PORFQ?

 

[CinderellaPug]

They aren't? (Seen those Tree houses lately? See the "Legendary Years" at Pop? Remember the closing of PORFQ?

Good point. I guess it shows that Disney takes a lot into consideration when making decisions.

Doesn't it seem that the supposed demand for CRV would make it different than these examples?

I would think the location and appeal of CRV would motivate Disney to have something built sooner rather than later, but then again you never know.

Hey, maybe the next DVC is at River Country!!!

 

[littlestar]

I wonder if DVC will do some kind of partnership with a big player like Marriott for more offsite locations. I mean wouldn't that make more sense then developing from scratch? Who knows what the future holds.

 

[Anal Annie]

HHI is very nice.

However, If you look at the sales history for both HH and VB Disney had a harder time selling those resorts out then they do the resorts on property. As I recall VB was even "downsized" due to a lack of response.

I talked to our guide about purchasing at VB 'cuz it cost so much less but he said that even tho he owns there & he loves the place he didn't recommend to purch. there 'cuz the MF are killers... They have to develop someplace where they can find the right balance for that aspect too...

 

[mbw12]

I talked to our guide about purchasing at VB 'cuz it cost so much less but he said that even tho he owns there & he loves the place he didn't recommend to purch. there 'cuz the MF are killers... They have to develop someplace where they can find the right balance for that aspect too...

what is MF???

 

[Anal Annie]

what is MF???

Maintenance Fees (annual dues)

 

[Dean]

My thoughts are if HHI isn't a success then why is it so hard to get at 7 months? Hummm. Perhaps because it's not quite warm enough to be a true year round destination like FL....so it has a very high demand for 4-5 months or so a year then it's probably flat. I haven't been there but it sounds like the climate is the only holdback on that one.

HH is really only prime for about 2.5 months of the year, early-mid June to mid-late August. The other 9.5 months has varying degrees of demand with about 3-4 months where it's hard to give the units away due to climate. Actually HH has gotten somewhat easier to get into the last few years even as the overall DVC membership has grown.

 

[Boston5602]

Could it also be that what ever they are doing to the North Wing at the Contemporary , they want to go slow and take it easy, keeping the rooms OUT of inventory? The lower amount of rooms could be the excuse they use to RAISE the prices on the rooms they have left.

The last few years , although not last year becasue we bought DVC , when booking a room at a mod resort ( POR ) we had gotten an upsell to the contemp in the wings. We took it one time,If I remember right we paid $10.00 more a night.

 

[txbradybunch]

Keeping in mind that I am living in Texas and may be slightly biased and hopeful that the rumors are true that there could actually one day be a mouse house at my back door - I must also say that I wasn't born here and plan to relocate to Florida as soon as I am able to.

But - in terms of building another Disney theme park North Texas would be a fabulous choice. North Texas has a very long season of warm weather for outdoor park activities. (The snowbirds and spring breakers come down here in droves just as they do to Florida - there is a reason they do!) North Texas has no more risk of natural disaster than Florida or California. North Texas has a huge supply of cheap labor. North Texas has two major airports serving the area and major interstate highway infrastructure. The Dallas Area Rapid Transit is expanding more and more from the downtown area to the outlying areas. While I think Frisco is a bit unrealistic - McKinney and points north along the I-75 corridor make great sense in terms of available quantities of land. The DFW area does have many other tourist attractions including Six Flags and many water parks with ticket prices not far off from Disney admission that do very well. In terms of another posters comment about there not being mush else to do in the area, I don't think it is ever Disney's goal to build a site for their guests to go spend their money in other tourist attractions! They want you to come, shop, eat, and sleep right there!

It would make great sense to have a middle US theme park, as Disney already has a location on each coast. (Look at the Six flags locations - Illinois, Missouri, Texas just off the top of my head) Disney is being smart to consider a middle america location far enough south for favorable weather. I saw another thread that suggested that Houston or San Antonio would be better - which I personally found to be ridiculous. Houston is already so overcrowded and congested it could not handle a major influx of additional traffic such as this. In addition, the Houston transportation infrastructure is awful. The airport at San Antonio is not much better than Houston. Although there is a huge supply of cheap labor in San Antonio, most of them would have difficulty communicating with the guests in english. Also, San Antonio in my opinion would create some particular challenges in maintenance of he grounds and facilities. San Antonio is either bone dry or flooded. While North Texas has had their own water issues in past year or two, at least part of the year the grass is green here!

IF Disney is considering another US park at all (which I've heard rumors both ways) North Texas would be a very sensible choice.

 

[asianway]

Let me mow these down in order.

The Treehouse Villas are a different beast altogether. The resort they were part of no longer exists, but even so, those assets are still being utilzed to house international program students. The configuration of those units presents other issues as well. Operationally, they cost more to service. A housekeeper can clean more rooms down a corridor in a normal hotel than in a two story freestanding structure as the Villas.

Legendary Years at Pop was tabled due to decreased demand post-911, same with FQ. Occupancy levels have not warranted greenlighting the rest of the project at this time. This is a different situation from shuttering existing rooms during a upswing in the lodging industry.

And the thought that they would demolish 1/4 of the resort in order to increase rates would make no business or logical sense whatsoever. Obviously occupancy at the Contemporary varies greatly due to Conventions. At times, they are 100%, all of which would represent lost revenue by taking rooms out of service. Rates would have to be increased 33% across the board AND have people pay it(keep in mind, the hotel has long struggled with achriving the rates of the Poly and GF).

The only other time an existing building has been demolished was Horizons, and that was only done once they were ready to proceed with Mission: Space. They had a plan then, they have a plan now.

 

[RobDoc]

...
The only other time an existing building has been demolished was Horizons, and that was only done once they were ready to proceed with Mission: Space. They had a plan then, they have a plan now.

What about the Fairway Villas, Townhouse Villas, Bungalows and Grand Vista Suites at Disney Village/DI? What about the original Chef Mickey's at DD? What about Residential Street and the Backlot Theater at MGM/Studios? What about 20,000 Leagues at MK?

There is always a plan.

 

[vonpluto]

What about the Fairway Villas, Townhouse Villas, Bungalows and Grand Vista Suites at Disney Village/DI? What about the original Chef Mickey's at DD? What about Residential Street and the Backlot Theater at MGM/Studios? What about 20,000 Leagues at MK?

There is always a plan.

And lest we forget:
The Fireworks Factory on PI,
The Chalet Building in the Village (now WOD/McD's), Harrington Bay (now Once upon A Toy) ,
and this whatcha-ma-callit:

replaced by a kalaidescopey-thingy, replaced by a, uh,
well, ya know what they say about the best laid plans of menz and meeces.

 

[dis-happy]

I'm confused...I thought you posted last fall that CRV was definitely DOA according to your very reliable source. Is that person now changing what she's saying? Just wondering...that would be another hopeful sign. Long live the CRV.