New Tsa xray machines and patdowns

[deegack]

Anyone have experience with these yet? They just put them in a month or so ago at Newark airport where my family flys out of. My husband refuses to fo through and will not let our DD go through either. He has concerns about the safety of them since they won't publish the Amt of radiation you are subjected to.

Has anyone refused to go through them and opted instead for a pat down? Does it "redflag" you and make it more difficult to travel eg pulled out of line for secondary screening etc.
I just want to know what to expect.

 

[goofy4tink]

If you refuse, you get to be patted down. From what I understand, the amount of radiation is a non-issue. But, if your dh is more comfortable with being patted down, then it won't be an issue.

 

[bicker]

I thought that they had released the radiation numbers, and it was less than the old x-ray machines.

 

[SueM in MN]

I thought that they had released the radiation numbers, and it was less than the old x-ray machines.

Here is some information:
http://www.xrayrisk.com/faq.php#q17

My youngest DD gets patted down all the time; she is in a wheelchair and can’t walk. Since the wheelchair can’t go thru the regular scanner, she does need to be hand screened.
It does take about 5 extra minutes - sometimes a bit more. And, that is just for the screening itself. Sometimes we have to wait a few minutes for a security screener to be available to check her out.
Usually the screeners have been very nice, but we occasionally get a grouchy one. I am hoping that she can go thru the new full body scanners, but if she can’t, we just have to allow extra time for her screening.

 

[bicker]

Thanks for the link. So the whole-body scanners represent 1/20th the amount of radiation as flying in the airplane itself.

 

[dburg30]

If the radiation is his issue, as stated, I suggest you consider NOT flying.. Or going outside.. or going to the dentist... or..... But that's just me. Now, if he just doesnt want someone to see him or your daughter 'naked' which is fine if that's how he feels, that's a different story. At that point he has someone 'feel him up' instead. I put those two words in ""'s because if the scan is considered 'naked' being patted down has to be about the same as being 'felt up'.

 

[pr surfer]

I refuse the machines regularly. Most TSO's are professional enough and you just get a quick pat-down after the WTMD.

The minority will try and convince you, tell you that you can't opt-out (you can), tell you it's safe (it's not), and once you refuse, you will be given an extremely thorough secondary... and in more than one situation, an extremely uncomfortable genital grab during the pat-down.

And I'll still refuse.

 

[goofy4tink]

I refuse the machines regularly. Most TSO's are professional enough and you just get a quick pat-down after the WTMD.

The minority will try and convince you, tell you that you can't opt-out (you can), tell you it's safe (it's not), and once you refuse, you will be given an extremely thorough secondary... and in more than one situation, an extremely uncomfortable genital grab during the pat-down.

And I'll still refuse.

All right...I'm gonna bite. Why is it unsafe???

 

[bumbershoot]

All right...I'm gonna bite. Why is it unsafe???

Radiation's effects are cumulative. By not going through the scanner that is just a bit less radiation in your life.


I'll be going the patdown route. I flew 9/18/01, going into DC...if I can deal with that, I can deal with it now.

 

[emmabelle]

In July, my daughter and I were selected to go through the scanner, while my husband and son weren't. They even patted down my legs after the scanner. My daughter had on shorts, so they didn't pat her down. I didn't like it, but I guess it keeps everyone else safe, so I'll deal.

 

[BlueIrish]

I haven't experienced them yet but I won't refuse to do to it. They are suppose to be up in running in the airport I use by Thanksgiving.
The radiation level is so small that unless your flying every single day its a non issue.

You get exposed to more levels of radiation on the plane then the machine, and as for the machine seeing you naked? whatever, again a non issue. Far more important things to worry about.

But thats just my feelings. the pat down I think is worse but different strokes for folks.

 

[deegack]

Thank you for the information. His issue is that the TSA won't come out and say how much radiation you are actually exposed to or even give a range. Also, can the machines be "turned up" so to speak. Most metal detectors can be adjusted by the user to be more or less sensitive. Can the scanners be adjusted and if so what are the outer limits? He won't be happy until they have a rad detector at the machines showing you exactly how much radiation you are being exposed to at a given time.

I personally have a privacy issue with them. Not with the virtual strip search (if a TSA agent wants to look at my post baby body have at it) but they claim the imagines are deleted etc. I'm not so sure I believe them. But I'm willing to go with the flow on that one.

So depending on how things look I will either go through the scanner and gather our stuff (assuming they let me) or I'll stick with the family, get pat down and go on my merry way. Thankfully, we have a very early flight and DH is anal about getting to the airport 2 hours in advance. I hope there is a Starbucks.

 

[DebbieB]

I went through one in Richmond last month. I didn't even realize it was in use, I was pulled from the line randomly. I didn't have a chance to think about it, I just did it. After you go through, the guard waits for an OK over a radio, I guess they are looking at it at a different location. Then I felt invaded.

 

[Dan Murphy]

Since they are safe and non-invasive, I have no problem with them.

 

[bicker]

Radiation's effects are cumulative. By not going through the scanner that is just a bit less radiation in your life.

Not necessarily: By bypassing the scanner, you could end up going through a corridor to the pat-down area, where you encounter even more radiation than you'd have encountered going through the scanner. It is hard to know, since there isn't clear information about how much radiation you're likely to encounter going through some of these back-room corridors.

Thank you for the information. His issue is that the TSA won't come out and say how much radiation you are actually exposed to or even give a range.

Why does he doubt the information provided earlier in this thread?

 

[ironz]

Not necessarily: By bypassing the scanner, you could end up going through a corridor to the pat-down area, where you encounter even more radiation than you'd have encountered going through the scanner. It is hard to know, since there isn't clear information about how much radiation you're likely to encounter going through some of these back-room corridors.

Why does he doubt the information provided earlier in this thread?

I'm confused why you think the corridor to the pat down area has radiation? The machines are only on long enough to make each exposure. As they would be in a medical xray exam room...the exposure is only for a fraction of a second in that case and the radiation is not floating around the room the rest of the time. If that was a concern, then you should be concerned about scatter xrays from the machines that scan your carryon luggage...but those appear to be well shielded (that's part of why those 'curtains' are on either end).

Also...you referred to the "old" xray machines? Our luggage has been scanned with xrays (both checked and carry on)....WE (the people) have NOT. The usual machines are magnetometers/metal detectors, which emit NO radiation. The newer machines, backscatter in particular, are the ones with the radiation.

And yes...a tiny amount. But as another posted said, the effects of xray radiation over our lifetime is cumulative. I don't especially trust that the TSA is going to be constantly doing quality assurance on these machines to make sure they don't exceed certain limits. And I don't want my near naked form examined by some screener in a room.

I work in the xray field, and travel a bunch...I get plenty of radiation exposure on my own, thank you.

 

[bicker]

I'm confused why you think the corridor to the pat down area has radiation?

There is radiation practically everywhere, and the radiation from these scanners is so low that incidental radiation from some improperly shielded equipment could represent significantly more radiation than the scanners.

 

[SDSorority]

I'm confused why you think the corridor to the pat down area has radiation? The machines are only on long enough to make each exposure. As they would be in a medical xray exam room...the exposure is only for a fraction of a second in that case and the radiation is not floating around the room the rest of the time. If that was a concern, then you should be concerned about scatter xrays from the machines that scan your carryon luggage...but those appear to be well shielded (that's part of why those 'curtains' are on either end).

Also...you referred to the "old" xray machines? Our luggage has been scanned with xrays (both checked and carry on)....WE (the people) have NOT. The usual machines are magnetometers/metal detectors, which emit NO radiation. The newer machines, backscatter in particular, are the ones with the radiation.

And yes...a tiny amount. But as another posted said, the effects of xray radiation over our lifetime is cumulative. I don't especially trust that the TSA is going to be constantly doing quality assurance on these machines to make sure they don't exceed certain limits. And I don't want my near naked form examined by some screener in a room.

I work in the xray field, and travel a bunch...I get plenty of radiation exposure on my own, thank you.

Amen.

Pat away, TSA. Pat away.

My DFIL just said to me "oh yes, they're up and running at the airport. It takes SO much longer, at least 10 minutes, to be pat down. What a hassle. "

(shakes head)

DH knows (we went over the procedure this morning) that WE'LL be patted down. WE'LL hold up the lines. And WE'LL not care one bit about it.

 

[pr surfer]

All right...I'm gonna bite. Why is it unsafe???

The cumulative effects of radiation. My family history has a high enough frequency of cancer, I'll opt out every chance I can get.

 

[bookgirl2632]

I haven't been through them yet, but I know several people who have. I don't have a problem with them on either level. The radiation is minimal at best. This doesn't worry me in the least. As for the "naked" issue, whatever. Whether we are male or female, we all have particular parts. We've all seen it before. And really, for the screener, they have to see it all day. You've seen one, you've seen them all.